Sorcerers as a Class.

deximasb14_ESO

Sorc in tes lore use skills to augment there defences and weapon prowess. So the sorc is as it was ment to be. HOWEVER. The problem is that the values of the buffs to get those extra effects are lacking. Personally I like the stam sorc play style mostly. Because I want to use my weapon of choice and have my skills augment this. They need to get some more skills. And I agree with pets. Eather make them useful or remove them. But I don't want a spam me button where all I do is hit that button over and over. Now. And a good way to buff sorcs to this end without breaking PvP is to add more crit and crit dmg to sorc as a class. Impen will mitigate alot if it But it will boost us up a ton in pve. I have no problem with being the weapon dmg, crit and crit dmg class. If your going to make us this make it in a way so when I spam wrecking blow or snipe or flurry that I do it better than anyone else.

ForsakenSin

DHale wrote: »

Meanwhile what sorcerers can do better than other classes? -insert deafening silence-

DIE QUICKER THEN ANY OTHER CLASS ... sad that is true

Minalan

ForsakenSin wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Meanwhile what sorcerers can do better than other classes? -insert deafening silence-

DIE QUICKER THEN ANY OTHER CLASS ... sad that is true

This pretty much, the issue isn't the class though. It's light armor.

Wrobel wrecked armor penetration this patch, you can easily stack it up to around 17-18K.

That leaves a light armor wearer.. Naked.

Madhawk65

It's their game, they can do what they want.
It's up to me to accept their decisions or not.
I like the classical idea of sorcerer. Physically weak but able to defend themselves with their magic.
When ESO will not offer that kind of character, I'll simply stop renewing my Plus subscription and move on to another game.
Not really a problem. It's just a game.

lucky_Sage

Grao wrote: »

Ravenflare wrote: »

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

Magicka sorcerers are forced to equip a fire destruction staff as the only viable magicka weapon for those without their own spammable abilities.

If you are going to play this character and you enjoy Sorcerers, apparently you should play a templar. They are apparently super fun to play, have good DPS and you can always off spec amazingly as a healer.

a magdk basically has to have s&b to be worth anything ive never seen a magdk using destro staff and be good in pvp and be a vampire

Grao

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ravenflare wrote: »

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

Magicka sorcerers are forced to equip a fire destruction staff as the only viable magicka weapon for those without their own spammable abilities.

If you are going to play this character and you enjoy Sorcerers, apparently you should play a templar. They are apparently super fun to play, have good DPS and you can always off spec amazingly as a healer.

a magdk basically has to have s&b to be worth anything ive never seen a magdk using destro staff and be good in pvp and be a vampire

DKs are the best stamina DPS and the best tanks in this game. If you main a DK I seriously don't understand what you are complaining about as they have at least two builds in which they are the absolute best in this game...

On the other hand, what are sorcerers the best at in this patch...? Oh yes...

ForsakenSin wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Meanwhile what sorcerers can do better than other classes? -insert deafening silence-

DIE QUICKER THEN ANY OTHER CLASS ... sad that is true

darthsithis

pigeon-holed into using destro-restro. That's the saddest and truest part of our situation. Just wrote a topic on this sorc situation a few minutes ago myself.

Grao

darthsithis wrote: »

pigeon-holed into using destro-restro. That's the saddest and truest part of our situation. Just wrote a topic on this sorc situation a few minutes ago myself.

Sadly it will be another thread to be completely ignored by Zenimax

Shunravi

Grao wrote: »

darthsithis wrote: »

pigeon-holed into using destro-restro. That's the saddest and truest part of our situation. Just wrote a topic on this sorc situation a few minutes ago myself.

Sadly it will be another thread to be completely ignored by Zenimax

I'm not sure if it's more ignored, or dismissed offhand because it doesn't go with their idea of the class.

DHale

Post I would like to see.... Guys we messed up we are reverting all our nerfs. Work it out. Also we are dedicating 6 months to fixing bugs. The end.

Shunravi

DHale wrote: »

Post I would like to see.... Guys we messed up we are reverting all our nerfs. Work it out. Also we are dedicating 6 months to fixing bugs. The end.

A fellow can dream....

Lord_Wrath

Ive been doing PvP now that I have time to play. Sorcs suck big time now man. Shields are useless, dark deals cast time is a death sentence, our best dps skills are not up to par with other classes. On top of that we are so squishy its the same take down method - CC our stamina away, poke us twice and were dead. We cant invest in defensive armor otherwise our DPS is completely worthless.



@Wrobel - Every class needs stamina, Sorcs are the easiest class to kill mainly because we have such little stamina. Magica builds need support behind our stamina bars, like longer CC immunity and reduced break free cost (its not entirely effective putting CP into tumbling, the cost is still great)

If Bound Armor can become a passive, and instead of an armor bonus it reduces a % of incoming damage that can allow us to not die in 1-3 hits. Im fine with shields how they are, but not when we have little to no defense. Its no longer rational to dps with a constant shield.

I think Dark Deal's cast time should be reduced by 40%

For our DPS, I think a lot of skills need a small damage boost. So many destro skills are incredibly weak. Again, the spammable topic can come up again.


I just want to be able to play competitively without having to limit myself to a specific build and having to become a master at animation cancelling, which is cheap to begin with.

NBrookus

Shunravi wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

darthsithis wrote: »

pigeon-holed into using destro-restro. That's the saddest and truest part of our situation. Just wrote a topic on this sorc situation a few minutes ago myself.

Sadly it will be another thread to be completely ignored by Zenimax

I'm not sure if it's more ignored, or dismissed offhand because it doesn't go with their idea of the class.

Then I wish they'd tell us what their idea of the class actually is besides "sorc crit tanks."

Shunravi

NBrookus wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

darthsithis wrote: »

pigeon-holed into using destro-restro. That's the saddest and truest part of our situation. Just wrote a topic on this sorc situation a few minutes ago myself.

Sadly it will be another thread to be completely ignored by Zenimax

I'm not sure if it's more ignored, or dismissed offhand because it doesn't go with their idea of the class.

Then I wish they'd tell us what their idea of the class actually is besides "sorc crit tanks."

'Weapons platform' 'summoning mage' 'the support cc class'

BlackMadara

catalyst10e wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Though I understand @Wrobel desire to keep each class unique in their play style, I can't support the decision to keep Magicka Sorcerers so heavily tied to a destruction staff.

There are different ways this problem could be solved though, for instance, Dark Exchange and its morphs could be turned into an ability that deals damage and regains either magicka or stamina depending on the morph. This skills could be made Melee for Magicka users and ranged for stamina users, which would create some interesting build diversity. Such skill would also aid with the class's survivability as dealing damage with a Dark Magic skill procs Blood Magic healing the caster for 8% of their max health.

Another alternative and an interesting one as well, would be to alter Crystal Fragment's proc mechanics. Instead of giving the spell a fixed chance of 35%, maybe Crystal Fragments could proc on Critical Strikes. Because in PvE we stack crit and use as many DoTs as possible, we'd be able to actively spam crystal fragments. Of course that would require the skill's base damage to be adjusted, alas, it would be an interesting change and certainly would be a unique skill.

Couple together, those changes plus a change to Crystal Blast into a stamina morph that applied debuffs to the target could greatly increase sorcerer DPS and build flexibility.

I agree with most of what you said, just this part here I wanted to discuss. If I'm understanding correctly you were suggesting Melee range for a magica users and ranged for stamina, I'd be all for a skill that could work like a siphon that we could spam, but the issue there would be, magicka users need to do everything from range and most all of the stamina abilities require they be within melee range. It wouldnt solve the issue of needing a spammable, it would just mean getting one no one would want to use.

On the crystal frag procing off crits, this would absolutely kill us in PVP. with so much crit resistances, and more players using shields which negate critical hits, we would nearly never be able to pop off one of our major damage dealing spells. I'd rather lose the hard CC and make it an instant cast, with the proc only effecting the damage and magica cost reduction. (But that's me)

Shields can be "crit" when it comes to things that proc off if crits. No extra damage is done to the shield, but, if you crit, you would still proc crit surge heal, scathing mage sd, etc.

Ravenflare

Grao wrote: »

Magicka sorcerers are forced to equip a fire destruction staff as the only viable magicka weapon for those without their own spammable abilities.

If you are going to play this character and you enjoy Sorcerers, apparently you should play a templar. They are apparently super fun to play, have good DPS and you can always off spec amazingly as a healer.

I was thinking about Templar. But still, the sorcerer is a class I feel certain should be fixed. As probably one of the main magic classes, it's a major class that can work well with a tank partner as ranged support. Plus, it then balances out all the options.
In my honesty, basing a skill tree around lightning isn't exactly brilliant. But, I haven't played the game yet because of my ridiculously slow download rate.
Sorcerers should be able to fight with a staff. Sure, parrying against a blade might not be the smart option but staffs are very useful in melee combat.

Grao

Ravenflare wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Magicka sorcerers are forced to equip a fire destruction staff as the only viable magicka weapon for those without their own spammable abilities.

If you are going to play this character and you enjoy Sorcerers, apparently you should play a templar. They are apparently super fun to play, have good DPS and you can always off spec amazingly as a healer.

I was thinking about Templar. But still, the sorcerer is a class I feel certain should be fixed. As probably one of the main magic classes, it's a major class that can work well with a tank partner as ranged support. Plus, it then balances out all the options.
In my honesty, basing a skill tree around lightning isn't exactly brilliant. But, I haven't played the game yet because of my ridiculously slow download rate.
Sorcerers should be able to fight with a staff. Sure, parrying against a blade might not be the smart option but staffs are very useful in melee combat.

Well, considering the game has only 4 classes one hopes Zenimax will eventually make sorcerers fun to play. And while basing Storm Calling exclusively around Lightning and Wind may not have been the best decision, that is the tree with most of our useful skills.

Unfortunately the most unique tree in our kit is also the tree that doesn't work, Daedric Summoning. With pets that are not affected by your passives or by your champion points, that have low base damage, low health and are as dumb as bag of rocks... There is little else that needs to be said about the Summoning tree, except that those useless pets are also toggles, which only makes the Tree's situation worse.

You will get to understand once you play late game though, up to level 50 you will love your pets, I loved mine...

willklippsteinb14_ESO

Ive retired my sorc. infact ive pretty much stopped playing due to my main being nerfed thru the ground. Keeping track with the forums because I want to know when the sorcs get resurrected so that I can continue playing...until then I am unsubbed and will not be buying any DLC, will prolly continue playing Fallout 4 until they get it together...Def. agree that having a spam ability in the dark magic tree...would make us more survivable. Sorcs need a huge overhaul and I really hope they get it so that I can start playing again, matter of fact...just out of my regular buddies...6 of my buddies alone have unsubbed and started playing overwatch everyday instead of ESO due to the last update.....#seriouslydisappointed

lucky_Sage

Grao wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Ravenflare wrote: »

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

Magicka sorcerers are forced to equip a fire destruction staff as the only viable magicka weapon for those without their own spammable abilities.

If you are going to play this character and you enjoy Sorcerers, apparently you should play a templar. They are apparently super fun to play, have good DPS and you can always off spec amazingly as a healer.

a magdk basically has to have s&b to be worth anything ive never seen a magdk using destro staff and be good in pvp and be a vampire

DKs are the best stamina DPS and the best tanks in this game. If you main a DK I seriously don't understand what you are complaining about as they have at least two builds in which they are the absolute best in this game...

On the other hand, what are sorcerers the best at in this patch...? Oh yes...

ForsakenSin wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Meanwhile what sorcerers can do better than other classes? -insert deafening silence-

DIE QUICKER THEN ANY OTHER CLASS ... sad that is true

I only play magicka builds I don't like stam

Leiloni

Get rid of pet tree and make it a world tree so people who like it can use it and the rest of us aren't saddled with an entire tree we don't want to use.

Get rid of all the toggleable abilities and rework them somehow. And if I need to buff myself with things, just merge it with another skill. I don't want to waste a precious slot on something like that.

Reduce the need for so much shielding. I'm ok with putting one shield on one bar as an occasional button I hit when I need extra defense, but that's about it. I saw a suggestion to put some of that in passives and I like that idea.

I don't want to prebuff myself with a bunch of shields and buffs before every fight. It's crap gameplay and a waste of spots, and to have a crap pet following me and taking up space - not to mention the camera angles - is just irritating.

Make the rest of the skills more fun to use. It should feel like the classic mage you see in other games, that's fun.

While Destro/Resto is nice, give people more viable weapon options.

Class needs an overhaul and it needs it fast. It's needed it for a long time IMO, the DB update hadn't magically changed how I feel about this class. But I'm glad it's gotten more people to complain about it.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

#makestreakgreatagain

# resurrectthesorcerers

#playwrobelsway

Edit: because the game is no longer 'play your way'

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

#makestreakgreatagain

# resurrectthesorcerers

#playwrobelsway

Edit: because the game is no longer 'play your way'

I translate that to #PlayDKs

tnanever

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

I'm not going to ask for shield duration to be restored. I'm not going for crit surge to be unnerfed. I'm asking that sorcerers be made a viable and needed class again, in any way you see fit.

If you share my points, please let zeni know. If you can think of any efficient ways to play as it is, or can think of some efficient fixes please reply. I'd love to hear what you have to say. If you're retiring your sorcerer, I'd love to know that as well.

Most of our class skills are unusable at endgame level. Pets still do too little damage, die too quickly and take a while to cast, they are also toggles which take up 4 slots if you choose to use both. Bound armor, which would work much better as a passive, is also a toggle - taking up two more spaces.
Streak is not cost effective in PvE, and easily overtaken by gap closers in PvP. Crit surge doesn't heal enough in PvE and doesn't grow with your skill, and it certainly doesn't heal enough in PvP. With the way crit surge is it even broke stam Sorcerers. Rune prison is unusable with lightning form. Dark exchange will get you killed by its cast time every time.
Hardened ward now has its match in Annulment even if the latter costs slightly more. Even if you look at stacking them both, at 6 seconds each you hardly have enough time left to do any damage. If there was a more expensive shadow cloak or breath of life Nightblades and Templars would be rightfully mad, and everyone would use them.
There is hardly anything special or fun left for sorcerers - overload, frags, and mage's fury. Liquid lightning as well if you're fighting a stationary enemy which is not often. All stam sorcs are left with is one morph of lightning form.

There is no efficient heal for magicka sorcerers. There is no spammable class skill, no good defensive skill that lets us get away.
We have the worst DPS, the worst healing, one of the worst unilities and the worst survivability.
Our bars are filled with toggles if we play the way zeni intends.
We are pigeonholed into using destro/resto.
The class is not fun, and there is absolutely no reason to play it over any other.

I don't want to rely on shields, I don't like relying on shields, but it was there if it was needed. Now it's too inefficient. The problems that existed before are laid bare now.

Give us some new skills, change the ones that are useless, make the class playable again. Give us some options.

Great post. Pretty much the same concerns are brought up over and over again by numerous people.

While I can understand and even appreciate some of the recent changes, overall Wrobel has his head up is ass.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

#makestreakgreatagain

# resurrectthesorcerers

#playwrobelsway

Edit: because the game is no longer 'play your way'

I translate that to #PlayDKs

maybe, but it doesnt allow blame to be placed upon the person responible, so stick with #playwrobelsway, at least then any company bigwig will know who is causing such a upheaval in their customer base

Minalan

Just Re-roll. This fight is over.

None of the other classes want to see sorc get a buff, they love farming easy kills. I can't walk ten paces anymore in PVP without immovable pots, everyone spams CC and expects a two-shot easy kill. They want it to stay that way.

The few really good PVP sorcs left are doing OKAY (meaning that they would do ten times better on a Templar). They don't want the class changed either because they're basement-dwelling sociopaths that enjoy being the 'only' sorcs left around.

Soooo. Basically nothing will happen.

Shunravi

Surge should give a little scaled lightning damage added to each attack.

Thelon

Minalan wrote: »

The few really good PVP sorcs left are doing OKAY...They don't want the class changed either because they're basement-dwelling sociopaths