Sorcerers as a Class.

bardx86

Doncellius wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

#makestreakgreatagain

# resurrectthesorcerers

I agree with you.

But I'll think twice before wasting Grand Soul Gems now..... cost vs. benefit....

ouch, lol

Archmage1

Well said OP. I will most likely retire my Sorc, which is very sad since it's my main. I may have to give up on ESO altogether as I do not like to play alts. We as Sorcs, are underpowered lack any skills comparable to other classes in both PvE and PvP. And most importantly, ZOS took the fun out of the class and didn't listen to the community.

CasNation

It's a good thing my sorc dps/healer magically turned into a magblade DPS and a templar heal/tank. I don't know what I would do otherwise!

Grao

Doncellius wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

#makestreakgreatagain

# resurrectthesorcerers

I agree with you.

But I'll think twice before wasting Grand Soul Gems now..... cost vs. benefit....

Nice one! XD

Minalan

bardx86 wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

#makestreakgreatagain

# resurrectthesorcerers

I agree with you.

But I'll think twice before wasting Grand Soul Gems now..... cost vs. benefit....

ouch, lol

It's not a joke.

I've seen more Stam team mates just casually walking past my 'dead for the 19th time' body.

You know the players are shaking their heads in pity.

Arato

Toggles having to be on both bars is a major source of weakness, and sorcerers have a lot of toggles which just amplifies this. I mean on cast skills may have a passive effect that you lose when you swap weapons (magelight, inferno, evil hunter, structured entropy, etc), but it doesn't despawn the effect of the cast skill when you swap. When you have a daedra summon, you swap, and the daedra despawns, if you want it back, you have to swap again, recast it, taking time and magicka, same with bound aegis.

Now that all those toggle skills have passive effects, and an active cast, you could make the effects not cancel on weapon swap and it'd still be balanced. For pets I'd lose the active heal from swapping and the 8% health boost, with aegis I'd lose the 8% max magicka when I swapped. That seems fair, if the primary effect of the toggle continues so that we could just have 1 copy of the skill on our bars.

psychotic13

IMO the problem is pets, get rid of them from the class.

Like others have said in this thread, summoning should be a world skill available to everyone, they'd get used more by other classes then too. (RP purposes ect)

But by making it one of our skill lines is a pain cause ZOS keeps trying to focus sorcs on their pets, that's not how I want to play and I know most other people don't either taking pets into PvP is a liability you can't rely on a skill they can kill and stop you from using. This is why sorcs are so weak you spend more time trying to keep shields up and keeping your god damn pets alive than attacking an enemy.

just glad I have a StamBlade and MagBlade to fall back on.

Digiman

Funny how changing one skill would unravel a class so quickly @Wrobel forced it on the class when made light armor 1/4 protective with plate.

Without helping the class like giving it a depended self heal on minor change to the duration of the class completely broke it for fun and playstyle.

I tip my hat to Wrobel, no one could be that methodical in breaking a class like Sorcerers.

Arato

Digiman wrote: »

Funny how changing one skill would unravel a class so quickly @Wrobel forced it on the class when made light armor 1/4 protective with plate.

Without helping the class like giving it a depended self heal on minor change to the duration of the class completely broke it for fun and playstyle.

I tip my hat to Wrobel, no one could be that methodical in breaking a class like Sorcerers.

Wrobel has never ceased to impress me with just how badly he can blunder things.

The first time we were introduced to Wrobel as the lead combat dev I just sat there with my mouth gaping open as I heard him say in the same 5 minutes "we're totally committed to removing veteran ranks" and "we're raising the veteran rank cap to VR16"

I mean... when you say you're going to do something, but you're not ready to do it yet, you just don't do anything.. you don't do the OPPOSITE thing though in the meantime. That's counterproductive and just makes your future work harder.

If I say.. well.. I'm going to fix the leak in my roof, but I don't have the materials to do it today... you don't proceed to go take a hammer to your ceiling and make the leak bigger first, then leave it for half a year.

sunlightly

I'm learning to know this feeling.

Bought the game a few weeks ago. First character is a Sorceror, just hit v80.

I started out hearing "Every class can play every role!"

Alright, I'll try healing. "Sure sure. They're not very good at it... probably the worst. But as long as you don't use any of your class abilities, you'll be fine!"

Okay. How about tanking? "Oooh, yeah... you can... sort of do that, just don't use any of your class abilities."

Fine fine, I hear stamina DPS is really mobile. That sounds fun. "Okay... yeah. Just don't use any of your class abilities."

What about magicka DPS? "Great! Yeah! You can definitely use your class abilities for that! Just remember, it's the worst at everything."

I love this game, I really do. It's the most fun I've had playing an MMO in a long time. Every day I'm excited to log on.

But I'm a Stam Sorc. I play a dungeon or two, and it's alright. I'm having some fun with it. But then I look at my action bars. I look through my spells and abilities. I watch what the other classes can do, and I just sort of... lose the will to play. I spend most of my time just wandering around cities doing nothing.

I feel like I'm missing out on most of what this game has to offer simply because of my class choice. And unfortunately, I'm not the kind of person who can level two characters back to back. I get one chance in MMOs, and I just... blew it.

I'm trying really hard to stick with it, but I know I'm going to end up quitting soon.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

sunlightly wrote: »

I'm learning to know this feeling.

Bought the game a few weeks ago. First character is a Sorceror, just hit v80.

I started out hearing "Every class can play every role!"

Alright, I'll try healing. "Sure sure. They're not very good at it... probably the worst. But as long as you don't use any of your class abilities, you'll be fine!"

Okay. How about tanking? "Oooh, yeah... you can... sort of do that, just don't use any of your class abilities."

Fine fine, I hear stamina DPS is really mobile. That sounds fun. "Okay... yeah. Just don't use any of your class abilities."

What about magicka DPS? "Great! Yeah! You can definitely use your class abilities for that! Just remember, it's the worst at everything."

I love this game, I really do. It's the most fun I've had playing an MMO in a long time. Every day I'm excited to log on.

But I'm a Stam Sorc. I play a dungeon or two, and it's alright. I'm having some fun with it. But then I look at my action bars. I look through my spells and abilities. I watch what the other classes can do, and I just sort of... lose the will to play. I spend most of my time just wandering around cities doing nothing.

I feel like I'm missing out on most of what this game has to offer simply because of my class choice. And unfortunately, I'm not the kind of person who can level two characters back to back. I get one chance in MMOs, and I just... blew it.

I'm trying really hard to stick with it, but I know I'm going to end up quitting soon.

Yeah, I've just started playing my other games this patch. Having at least 3-4 months free of eso will give me plenty of time to play my other games

Oakmontowls_ESO

With the old shield mechanics, how much of an effect was 100 points in bastion? Would a change in cp (moving bastion to a blue tree) fix the problems people were having with shields? Since from what I was understanding people were upset that sorcs were able to invest fully into dps and were also able to have god like survivability. This change would force shield using sorcs to balance their offence and defense.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

With the old shield mechanics, how much of an effect was 100 points in bastion? Would a change in cp (moving bastion to a blue tree) fix the problems people were having with shields? Since from what I was understanding people were upset that sorcs were able to invest fully into dps and were also able to have god like survivability. This change would force shield using sorcs to balance their offence and defense.

Should DK's, NB's and templars have to choose too then? As atm they get healed very well by just doing their normal rotation. Only sorcs get punished for it, noone else. Zenimax hates sorcs, which is why they murdered them this patch.

LordSidious

I've lost all motivation to actively play this game anymore. I'm honestly surprised ZOS pays for hosting for this forum still since it's clear they don't use our feedback. We aren't asking for much here, we're asking to be a competitive and fun class to play.

Oakmontowls_ESO

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

With the old shield mechanics, how much of an effect was 100 points in bastion? Would a change in cp (moving bastion to a blue tree) fix the problems people were having with shields? Since from what I was understanding people were upset that sorcs were able to invest fully into dps and were also able to have god like survivability. This change would force shield using sorcs to balance their offence and defense.

Should DK's, NB's and templars have to choose too then? As atm they get healed very well by just doing their normal rotation. Only sorcs get punished for it, noone else. Zenimax hates sorcs, which is why they murdered them this patch.

Yes we should have to choose between all out damage and survivability and already do have to since atleast in the case of funnel health, without major points in blessed, it will barely keep your health topped off and doesn't really provide the burst defence of ward.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

With the old shield mechanics, how much of an effect was 100 points in bastion? Would a change in cp (moving bastion to a blue tree) fix the problems people were having with shields? Since from what I was understanding people were upset that sorcs were able to invest fully into dps and were also able to have god like survivability. This change would force shield using sorcs to balance their offence and defense.

Should DK's, NB's and templars have to choose too then? As atm they get healed very well by just doing their normal rotation. Only sorcs get punished for it, noone else. Zenimax hates sorcs, which is why they murdered them this patch.

Yes we should have to choose between all out damage and survivability and already do have to since atleast in the case of funnel health, without major points in blessed, it will barely keep your health topped off and doesn't really provide the burst defence of ward.

And sorcs had to use 100 CP's to make shields good too, so they already did sacrifice things to get their good shields. If a NB had put 100 points in blessed and was hard to kill because of that, should they be punished then too?

Oakmontowls_ESO

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

With the old shield mechanics, how much of an effect was 100 points in bastion? Would a change in cp (moving bastion to a blue tree) fix the problems people were having with shields? Since from what I was understanding people were upset that sorcs were able to invest fully into dps and were also able to have god like survivability. This change would force shield using sorcs to balance their offence and defense.

Should DK's, NB's and templars have to choose too then? As atm they get healed very well by just doing their normal rotation. Only sorcs get punished for it, noone else. Zenimax hates sorcs, which is why they murdered them this patch.

Yes we should have to choose between all out damage and survivability and already do have to since atleast in the case of funnel health, without major points in blessed, it will barely keep your health topped off and doesn't really provide the burst defence of ward.

And sorcs had to use 100 CP's to make shields good too, so they already did sacrifice things to get their good shields. If a NB had put 100 points in blessed and was hard to kill because of that, should they be punished then too?

But they are "sacrificing" one form of mitigation for another since those 100 cp couldn't be used for anything other than defense where as 100 points in blessed would lower offense significantly.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

With the old shield mechanics, how much of an effect was 100 points in bastion? Would a change in cp (moving bastion to a blue tree) fix the problems people were having with shields? Since from what I was understanding people were upset that sorcs were able to invest fully into dps and were also able to have god like survivability. This change would force shield using sorcs to balance their offence and defense.

Should DK's, NB's and templars have to choose too then? As atm they get healed very well by just doing their normal rotation. Only sorcs get punished for it, noone else. Zenimax hates sorcs, which is why they murdered them this patch.

Yes we should have to choose between all out damage and survivability and already do have to since atleast in the case of funnel health, without major points in blessed, it will barely keep your health topped off and doesn't really provide the burst defence of ward.

And sorcs had to use 100 CP's to make shields good too, so they already did sacrifice things to get their good shields. If a NB had put 100 points in blessed and was hard to kill because of that, should they be punished then too?

But they are "sacrificing" one form of mitigation for another since those 100 cp couldn't be used for anything other than defense where as 100 points in blessed would lower offense significantly.

But sorcs are then sacrificing other forms of migation that they could have taken instead. And there's builds on NB's that are just as or even more tanky than shield sorcs while still putting out big dps. Someone linked their NB build in another thread about it

Oakmontowls_ESO

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

With the old shield mechanics, how much of an effect was 100 points in bastion? Would a change in cp (moving bastion to a blue tree) fix the problems people were having with shields? Since from what I was understanding people were upset that sorcs were able to invest fully into dps and were also able to have god like survivability. This change would force shield using sorcs to balance their offence and defense.

Should DK's, NB's and templars have to choose too then? As atm they get healed very well by just doing their normal rotation. Only sorcs get punished for it, noone else. Zenimax hates sorcs, which is why they murdered them this patch.

Yes we should have to choose between all out damage and survivability and already do have to since atleast in the case of funnel health, without major points in blessed, it will barely keep your health topped off and doesn't really provide the burst defence of ward.

And sorcs had to use 100 CP's to make shields good too, so they already did sacrifice things to get their good shields. If a NB had put 100 points in blessed and was hard to kill because of that, should they be punished then too?

But they are "sacrificing" one form of mitigation for another since those 100 cp couldn't be used for anything other than defense where as 100 points in blessed would lower offense significantly.

But sorcs are then sacrificing other forms of migation that they could have taken instead. And there's builds on NB's that are just as or even more tanky than shield sorcs while still putting out big dps. Someone linked their NB build in another thread about it

I am not saying that the other classes are completely balanced either I'm just proposing a possible solution.

Cambion

If the case of the shields was shield stacking then remove the ability to shield stack, the new shield takes priority and your shield is primary.

Make the Daedric Summoning tree a world tree, and change the summons themselves into some interesting daedra/dremora.

Make the old Daedric Summoning tree into some sort of elemental tree with DPS, buffs and some healing. This would enable us to actually receive a proper bonus from the Expert Mage passive.

And most importantly make sure that there are stamina morphs that are actually useful to stamina sorcerers, in fact this last one can be applied to the other classes as well.

A sorcerer should not be tied to any weapon really, as they use the elemental force and the dark arts for their weapons, so give us this option.

bardx86

Cambion wrote: »

If the case of the shields was shield stacking then remove the ability to shield stack, the new shield takes priority and your shield is primary.

Make the Daedric Summoning tree a world tree, and change the summons themselves into some interesting daedra/dremora.

Make the old Daedric Summoning tree into some sort of elemental tree with DPS, buffs and some healing. This would enable us to actually receive a proper bonus from the Expert Mage passive.

And most importantly make sure that there are stamina morphs that are actually useful to stamina sorcerers, in fact this last one can be applied to the other classes as well.

A sorcerer should not be tied to any weapon really, as they use the elemental force and the dark arts for their weapons, so give us this option.

i kind of liked the synergy of stack a magic based shield make us stronger to magic attacks and weaker to physical. Seems appropriate to me.

Ravenflare

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

Grao

Ravenflare wrote: »

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

Magicka sorcerers are forced to equip a fire destruction staff as the only viable magicka weapon for those without their own spammable abilities.

If you are going to play this character and you enjoy Sorcerers, apparently you should play a templar. They are apparently super fun to play, have good DPS and you can always off spec amazingly as a healer.

Lord_Wrath

Obviously at this point Zeni doesnt give two craps about what sorcs are saying.

Cronopoly

Unfortunately

Grao wrote: »

Magicka sorcerers are forced to equip a fire destruction staff as the only viable magicka weapon for those without their own spammable abilities.

If you are going to play this character and you enjoy Sorcerers, apparently you should play a templar. They are apparently super fun to play, have good DPS and you can always off spec amazingly as a healer.

After countless respecs to find something worthwhile, I had to settle on Destro in PVP which was not my desired playstyle but it's the only thing that seemed to work best for me at the time. I still didn't like that many of my primary "sorc" skills went unused or were ineffective.

I was like what's the point then. I could have just played a Destro Templar then, and gain way more than I lost. Debuff's, Heals, Gap closer etc...Especially now that the Light Armor shield skill blocks physical and magicka lol.

Nvm I talked myself into it. Sorc shelved, playing Templar until something changes...

Only thing Sorc was good at is running away, and that got nerfed too lol /tear...

Allister101_ESO

Cyrodiil has almost been fun in the last couple of days due to the dramatic decrease in shield stacking cheese playing Sorc's. It would be even better were it not for the new cheese class to step on up, Templars. Groups of Templars going around the district's in IC wrecking everything in sight, completely unkillable. You may be sad about your little shields, boo hoo, but the community has a new tyrant to worry about already. The Javelin, Jabs spamming top dps super mega healer with one second res time.

Shunravi

Ravenflare wrote: »

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

@Ravenflare just an fyi, in this game the sorcerer isn't the default or only mage class. You may find yourself liking magic spec nightblade, templar, or dk.....

Miss_Morphine

Shunravi wrote: »

Ravenflare wrote: »

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

@Ravenflare just an fyi, in this game the sorcerer isn't the default or only mage class. You may find yourself liking magic spec nightblade, templar, or dk.....

Think about it this way - sorcs are the Bogdan's set of classes. It does something but there are much better sets you can use because it's pretty broken.
Just because there are other options doesn't mean there aren't people who rightfully want this option fixed.

Grao

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Ravenflare wrote: »

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

@Ravenflare just an fyi, in this game the sorcerer isn't the default or only mage class. You may find yourself liking magic spec nightblade, templar, or dk.....

Think about it this way - sorcs are the Bogdan's set of classes. It does something but there are much better sets you can use because it's pretty broken.
Just because there are other options doesn't mean there aren't people who rightfully want this option fixed.

Awesome way to frame the matter.

Shunravi

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Ravenflare wrote: »

I've been reading through this, and it's quite dissapointing. I haven't played the game yet, but I'm normally a sorcerer/mage in most MMORPG's due to my love for magic.
My suggestion; they should either make a spam spell, or just allow wizards to fight melee with their staff or whatever they use. Knock the enemies over the head for a few seconds to allow time to cast a spell ya know?
This is just a suggestion based off a guess that sorcerers don't use weaponry
I'm with you guys for buffing up the sorcerer again, it sounds terrible, despite me probably going to go with something different like Nightblade

@Ravenflare just an fyi, in this game the sorcerer isn't the default or only mage class. You may find yourself liking magic spec nightblade, templar, or dk.....

Think about it this way - sorcs are the Bogdan's set of classes. It does something but there are much better sets you can use because it's pretty broken.
Just because there are other options doesn't mean there aren't people who rightfully want this option fixed.

Well, duh.

I'm only saying sorcerers are not and have never been 'the mage class.'

I believe I said it earlier, but ZOS seems to be sticking to a design philosophy for the class that really does nothing for the class other than make it a platform for using weapons that any other class can use. And people absolutely should complain about this.