Scaling gone crazy?

Alpheu5

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

The problem is when people know what they are doing, it blows this system up.

This exactly. I'm levelling a DC copy of my EP sorc, and with purple gear that was 2 levels lower than the actual character, purple enchants, identical mundus/CP allocation, and missing passives, the lowbie had a whole 200 more magicka regen and about 300 more spell power. And this was without non-vet willpower jewelery to make the gear 1:1 with my main.

alex394053

I knew it! I lost somewhat 1.5K - 2K HP after the patch. Don't know what to do now: whether reallocate points from stamina to health or leave it as it is with 13K unbuffed for my CP345 DD stamblade.

alex394053

Riggsy wrote: »

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

Live fast, die young.

Ep1kMalware

this is pretty normal with scaling

NewBlacksmurf

Riggsy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

@Riggsy
Actually the scaling isn't due to people being impatient.

Its results of ZOS not understanding their game design and how it relates to the player base.

Grouping tools stopped working, ZOS had huge player separation and didn't understand how to add meaning DLC due to the VR situation and adding CP without removing VR.....and now what we see due to stat changes and adding VR and CP and now trying to move VR stuff into level 1-50 with CP and not removing VR and not using CP as some type of character level

CP wasn't meant for this and VR needed to be removed.
The two can't exist together and so the whole issue was to remove VR.

Now we have a larger mess

So it's a typical ZOS "fix" where they put a band-aid on the issue instead of addressing the root cause. Reminds me of their Cyro lag fix where, instead of addressing the server issues, created the VD set and made it easy to get mag. det. hoping that would deter large battles from occurring and thus minimizing lag...

@Riggsy
In the defense of what wording ZOS used, they didn't say they had removed VR. It actually reads "converted" in the article but in other places, they are misusing the term "removal" by definition.

Pangnirtung

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Did you reallocate your CP on the max level character?

Cant check right now (maintenance) but looking at the crit rate - yes.

CP were reset to ZERO on all of my characters so I am guessing that you were playing without CP.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Riggsy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

The whole Scaled Leveling thing is sad. People are so f'n impatient they cant pay their dues, learn the game while progressing and having fun. Instead ZOS gives in to the whining and buffs lowbies because they dont wanna "grind." But there are so many ways to level up (questing and such) besides grinding. So sad, no wonder people hate my "everyone gets a trophy" generation.

@Riggsy
Actually the scaling isn't due to people being impatient.

Its results of ZOS not understanding their game design and how it relates to the player base.

Grouping tools stopped working, ZOS had huge player separation and didn't understand how to add meaning DLC due to the VR situation and adding CP without removing VR.....and now what we see due to stat changes and adding VR and CP and now trying to move VR stuff into level 1-50 with CP and not removing VR and not using CP as some type of character level

CP wasn't meant for this and VR needed to be removed.
The two can't exist together and so the whole issue was to remove VR.

Now we have a larger mess

So it's a typical ZOS "fix" where they put a band-aid on the issue instead of addressing the root cause. Reminds me of their Cyro lag fix where, instead of addressing the server issues, created the VD set and made it easy to get mag. det. hoping that would deter large battles from occurring and thus minimizing lag...

Which, by the way, actually did work as intended. In order to reduce PVP lag, there needed to be more deaths happening quicker. How do you make players in zerg balls die? Proxy and VD.

It actually worked. There are no more battles where everyone is locked into place spamming skills that don't do anything.

Rune_Relic

temjiu wrote: »

Wow. Here's hoping that this is part of the fix they're implementing as of now. a lvl 28 scaled should not be able to top a maxed toon. And the change to difficulty sounds allot like it's due to the scaling...if they buffed the max tier toon to be equal to the lvl 28 in scaling im sure it would make a difference.

that being said, it's not surprising that on such a huge migration (they effectively converted most of the games stats on gear and other areas) that scaling is a bit off. surprised that this wasn't caught on PTS. Or perhaps it wasn't there...hence the emergency MW. Just brainstorming here.

EDIT: the most recent alert on the main forum page indicates the MW was to fix an equipment related issue...wouldn't be surprised if this is part of that.

The problem may have been a linear progression conversion for gear.
The implemented 1-50 ~ 50-66 (10cp /level.)
However vet gear was actually scaled the equivalent to 2 nonvet armour/weapon level.
So it should have actually been 1-50 ~ 50-82 to have a truly linear scale.
Do you look like being 16 levels short scaling wise on the V16 (ie level 66 instead of level 82) ?

NewBlacksmurf

Rune_Relic wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

Wow. Here's hoping that this is part of the fix they're implementing as of now. a lvl 28 scaled should not be able to top a maxed toon. And the change to difficulty sounds allot like it's due to the scaling...if they buffed the max tier toon to be equal to the lvl 28 in scaling im sure it would make a difference.

that being said, it's not surprising that on such a huge migration (they effectively converted most of the games stats on gear and other areas) that scaling is a bit off. surprised that this wasn't caught on PTS. Or perhaps it wasn't there...hence the emergency MW. Just brainstorming here.

EDIT: the most recent alert on the main forum page indicates the MW was to fix an equipment related issue...wouldn't be surprised if this is part of that.

The problem may have been a linear progression conversion for gear.
The implemented 1-50 ~ 50-66 (10cp /level.)
However vet gear was actually scaled the equivalent to 2 nonvet armour/weapon level.
So it should have actually been 1-50 ~ 50-82 to have a truly linear scale.
Do you look like being 16 levels short scaling wise on the V16 (ie level 66 instead of level 82) ?

@Rune_Relic
But that's not right...it's why I kept saying to ppl that VR isn't really a level like 1-50 and why I kept asking the staff to share scaling because I'm pretty sure what they did is change nothing regarding scaling however that changed A LOT because CP is further from leveling than VR was so the gap you describe is noticeable beyond 49 just like being scaled up to vr14 or vr15 made those players stronger than a VR16

As far as players "suck" issues, it all depends on how you were built prior to the changes.

Reapor

To be honest i dont see a issue with the scaling other then, if your CP 160 stats are < scaled it scales you up.

khele23eb17_ESO

Pangnirtung wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Did you reallocate your CP on the max level character?

Cant check right now (maintenance) but looking at the crit rate - yes.

CP were reset to ZERO on all of my characters so I am guessing that you were playing without CP.

Youre guessing wrong. The screenshots are with all of my 340CP allocated. On both characters.

OPheliaMortal

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Or am I missing something?

Is this even a valid comparison? You're comparing a stamina build on a Redguard vs. Altmer. I mean, battle level op, but most end game stamina builds are able to get substantially better stats than either of those.

temjiu

I personally think that they should have gone in the direction that GW2 did. Scale DOWN instead of UP. Top level players would scale DOWN based on the level of the area they are in. Higher level characters had some advantages at lower levels of scaling due to extra skills and skillpoints and gear with better enchants and such...but that's to be expected IMO, and the way it should be. The reward for getting a character that high = more power! so you were scaled down, but that low level content was easier due to this.

they're current solution is proving the same results, but in reverse. Since they are scaling lower level characters up, the power creep is higher at lower levels, and as you get higher, your power lessens. That's horribad...It's actually LESS Motivation to level your character! It's a step forward...but were still not out of the forest yet.

Gidorick

Gedalya wrote: »

Wait, what is Drowning Resistance?

DROWNING.... as in... underwater?

Ok Gid... calm down... it's not what you're thinking. Underwater content isn't on its way...

Dromede

alex394053 wrote: »

I knew it! I lost somewhat 1.5K - 2K HP after the patch. Don't know what to do now: whether reallocate points from stamina to health or leave it as it is with 13K unbuffed for my CP345 DD stamblade.

Make sure to update you CP - the red tree effects your HP, and CP have been force reset.

ArchMikem

What's baffling me is how you can get a Level 13 character, even scaled, to have 2000+ spell damage. That's outrageous to me.

khele23eb17_ESO

OPheliaMortal wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Or am I missing something?

Is this even a valid comparison? You're comparing a stamina build on a Redguard vs. Altmer. I mean, battle level op, but most end game stamina builds are able to get substantially better stats than either of those.

Why isnt it valid? The difference betweel Redguard and Altmer is 10%. I even deducted the 10% in my original post saying theres a 4k stamina difference not 7k. Also, you will have these stats at such values already at level 15 or 20 - even before you get the 10% passives. Substantially better? With full raid buffs perhaps. And the whole point is - having your endgame character be as strong as a level 20 or 38 only after months of farming doesnt make much sense.

SlayerTheDragon

87% crit... OVERKILL. Go Tower Mundus.[

acw37162

Your crit is up based on the gear choice you made.

Your weapon damage health and stats are reflected of what you actually invested into them instead of an algorithm meant to account for passive sand other attributes you may not have attained yet.

If you want the health you actually have to invest in it now. Scaled up stats are not reflective at all of just wheat gear you have. That is only part of the equation.

Volkodav

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Feed your horse. It's hungry.

He needs to "train" his horse.We dont feed them anymore.

Dubhliam

This is exactly what is wrong with ESO difficulty.

ZOS is holding the hands of low level players through the early solo content either by making world mobs stupidly easy or battle leveling the player with buffed stats.
Then when those same players come to veteran dungeons they cry and whine how they are difficult.
When, in fact, it was the other way around.

ZOS should really look at the difficulty of their game (all aspects of it) and tune it to be consistent, then adjust battle leveling accordingly.

Acrolas

We're going to hire you as an entry level designer at $90k per year.

But after 60 days, we're going to promote you to executive producer and lower your salary to $60k per year.

We need to give that $30k to a new entry level designer to incentivize them to stick around for at least 60 days.

...

That is ~exactly~ what Battle Leveling is.
It's a system of short-term incentives that does not make sense in the long run.
It's anti-endgame.
And yet, the front-end of the game isn't all that exciting, either. You plod until about level 38, have 12 good, fast levels, then drop off the face of the earth again.

khele23eb17_ESO

Acrolas wrote: »

We're going to hire you as an entry level designer at $90k per year.

But after 60 days, we're going to promote you to executive producer and lower your salary to $60k per year.

We need to give that $30k to a new entry level designer to incentivize them to stick around for at least 60 days.

...

That is ~exactly~ what Battle Leveling is.
It's a system of short-term incentives that does not make sense in the long run.
It's anti-endgame.
And yet, the front-end of the game isn't all that exciting, either. You plod until about level 38, have 12 good, fast levels, then drop off the face of the earth again.

Once I figured out what was going on it was one of the bigges WTF moments Ive had in my years of MMO gaming. That and the disfigured female armor meshes (how they got to live I will never understand).