ZoS happy if STA DK and STA NB dominate PvP?

bowmanz607

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

It wasn't so much a buff but a fix imo. No reason stam.abilities should be doing fire or mag damage.. this was illogical and leftover issues from 1.6 update. It was long over due.

So they should fix the abilities doing too much damage now too then?

I don't think these abilities do too much damage. Let's look at nb for instance. Amush hits just as hard as lotus fan when similarly specced. Same goes for killers bad and impale. Same goes for incap and soul harvest. Heck, power extraction does the same damage as steel tornado before it starts scaling.

So the problem is stamina having higher innate weapondmg on offensive weaponsets then (yeah mag builds can use 2h + DW too but they´re loosing lightattacks scaling with their main attributes which nullifies this for anyting but channeled attacks or burst builds).

Which leads to: Light- and heavyattacks for all weapons should scale with highest resource + highest dmg stat - just to make things equal again.
Or they need to implement a ~1500 basedmg magica melee weapon alternative.

Stamina can stack more weapon damage (a gap that closes more and more with sets awarding weapon/spell damage at same time and also spell damage weapon enchants wtc), but mag can stack more max mag than max stam. (Mainly do to stam having to rely more on drinks, but also sets make it easier to stack max mag than max stam).

Why people fail to recognize this is beyond me.

earth_angel wrote: »

Big Tee wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

STA DK was already the top dog DPS for STA builds and NB top dog for burst out of stealth. This patch made the STA DK and STA NB even more powerful with skill changes to disease and poison. In addition they nerfed major defensive skills for MAG Sorcs and turned crit surge into hot garbage.

So keep buffing the best STA classes? WTF

It's about time they stopped making magicka more OP. Any noob can do good in PvP with a magicka build. All you have to do is stack and spam wards... They need to nerf it ASAP 'cause a 10 year old can do good with a Sorc/Magblade. Don't even get me started on Prox Det. & Overload.

Any noob can do good on magicka DK? really? you should stop stamina vs magicka comparisons...

Proxy det + vicious death + soul tether + sap combo is broken but that does not make all magicka class OP. Actually some stam builds also have some unfun-to-fight one-shotting tools.

I would say nb gankers are easy mode wether they are stam or magicka.

Now with vicious death magblade can kill more people than stam with one shot builds, but the issue is more the existence of one-shot strategy to begin with. If there is a combo you can do that kill people without having any counter to it, then the game has a fun factor issue that needs to be adressed. Period.

Any one can run a vd proxy combo. As a mag blade I actually prefer dawn breaker over tether. Results in more dps and it is up more often resulting in more bombs. It has same effect as soul tether. It just requires aiming as opposed to just jumping in a pile.

earth_angel

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Any one can run a vd proxy combo. As a mag blade I actually prefer dawn breaker over tether. Results in more dps and it is up more often resulting in more bombs. It has same effect as soul tether. It just requires aiming as opposed to just jumping in a pile.

Well soul tether is nice for the CC. But I agree : the point of running magblade is more about having access to the ultimate generation tools, the mobility tools and damage buffs that nb have (and other class don't).

Do you have any combo for magicka DK that could one shot a group of people before they even know you are here ? that is without even talking about the escape tools that DK don't have.

Jaronking

earth_angel wrote: »

Big Tee wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

STA DK was already the top dog DPS for STA builds and NB top dog for burst out of stealth. This patch made the STA DK and STA NB even more powerful with skill changes to disease and poison. In addition they nerfed major defensive skills for MAG Sorcs and turned crit surge into hot garbage.

So keep buffing the best STA classes? WTF

It's about time they stopped making magicka more OP. Any noob can do good in PvP with a magicka build. All you have to do is stack and spam wards... They need to nerf it ASAP 'cause a 10 year old can do good with a Sorc/Magblade. Don't even get me started on Prox Det. & Overload.

Any noob can do good on magicka DK? really? you should stop stamina vs magicka comparisons...

Proxy det + vicious death + soul tether + sap combo is broken but that does not make all magicka class OP. Actually some stam builds also have some unfun-to-fight one-shotting tools.

I would say nb gankers are easy mode wether they are stam or magicka.

Now with vicious death magblade can kill more people than stam with one shot builds, but the issue is more the existence of one-shot strategy to begin with. If there is a combo you can do that kill people without having any counter to it, then the game has a fun factor issue that needs to be adressed. Period.

I will just like to point out that the highlighted part isn't true.That's not a one shot that's a 4 ability combo.Rather a 3 ability combo if you don't want to count Vicious death as a ability. I'll completely disagree with you on NB gankers being easy mode when reality its not and still many counters in the game to stop yourself from getting gank by just a stamblade alone.Any class can gank and one shot another player just as easy as a NB.

Again their are counters to getting gank and sometimes you just about have to 1 shot someone to kill them if not they will heal themselves back up and your in for a 3-5 minutes fight at least if you both know what your doing.

earth_angel

Jaronking wrote: »

earth_angel wrote: »

Proxy det + vicious death + soul tether + sap combo is broken but that does not make all magicka class OP. Actually some stam builds also have some unfun-to-fight one-shotting tools.

I will just like to point out that the highlighted part isn't true.That's not a one shot that's a 4 ability combo.Rather a 3 ability combo if you don't want to count Vicious death as a ability. I'll completely disagree with you on NB gankers being easy mode when reality its not and still many counters in the game to stop yourself from getting gank by just a stamblade alone.Any class can gank and one shot another player just as easy as a NB.

Again their are counters to getting gank and sometimes you just about have to 1 shot someone to kill them if not they will heal themselves back up and your in for a 3-5 minutes fight at least if you both know what your doing.

[/quote]

Ok, technically Proxy + ultimate + AOE spam is not one ability. But if you know what you are doing, all abilities hits at the same time (and vicious death procs to finish the survivor) and the total of damage dealt is above the amount of health that most players have (I run 30K health on my defensive / travel bar so I am safe from ganking but it's far from what people usually have).

On a nb you are not stuck in combat for 3 - 5 minutes at all, except if you forgot to use your mirror image. Also you can fear and count on the lag (sadly...). Some skills like snipe are ridiculous when fully buffed with merciless resolve, stealth bonus, empower, etc... You can kill lots of people without risking much. Not a top players, but that's not what ganking is about anyway. That's what I call easy mode. And even if escape does not work you still have awesome tanking or damge passives as a nightblade.

As for people not being killable except with burst, it's because there are lots of builds without weaknesses / tradeoff. The disappearance of softcaps / hardcaps and addition of CP broke a lot of things. I agree unkillable opponents is a thing that should not happen either. What is a point of a fight that get decided by who get lagged / health dsynched first ?

danno8

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I love how the nightblades kept 1-second ganking the ZOS staff during their live show last week. Over and over again.

Then all the ZOS had to say about being confronted with the garbage that they created: "Wow these guys are good!"

Then all you see is a couple of poison strikes in the recap... 1 button. Such skill....

Then a stam DK jumps in and (I think it was Gina) said, "Wow, it takes nine of you to kill this guy."

The rest of us: FACEPALM

Because, the live game isn't going to be any different this week unless it's fixed, and it won't be. I predict Radiant Mage Light is going to be mandatory just to take three steps outside of your keep.

The poison damage better be dealt with. I want to say I saw a 17k hit and @Wrobel couldn't have moved the conversation along any quicker.

@Khaos_Bane

If you watch closely, you will see that 17k was from a poison DoT that ticked for several seconds before he was ganked. In fact you can see he is at full health when he gets hit by the Lotus Fan, ST, PD combo.

So this is just a failure of the death recap to include a (x4) or whatever information modifier so now people think it was all in one hit. Just like RD, Caltrops, Oils, etc...

Khaos_Bane

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I'm loving all these Magplar re-rolls I'm seeing in Cyro atm, they're garbage now. Even more in DB, how would you like your death sir? 1 or 2 shot?

How do Magplars have issues?

danno8 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I love how the nightblades kept 1-second ganking the ZOS staff during their live show last week. Over and over again.

Then all the ZOS had to say about being confronted with the garbage that they created: "Wow these guys are good!"

Then all you see is a couple of poison strikes in the recap... 1 button. Such skill....

Then a stam DK jumps in and (I think it was Gina) said, "Wow, it takes nine of you to kill this guy."

The rest of us: FACEPALM

Because, the live game isn't going to be any different this week unless it's fixed, and it won't be. I predict Radiant Mage Light is going to be mandatory just to take three steps outside of your keep.

The poison damage better be dealt with. I want to say I saw a 17k hit and @Wrobel couldn't have moved the conversation along any quicker.

@Khaos_Bane

If you watch closely, you will see that 17k was from a poison DoT that ticked for several seconds before he was ganked. In fact you can see he is at full health when he gets hit by the Lotus Fan, ST, PD combo.

So this is just a failure of the death recap to include a (x4) or whatever information modifier so now people think it was all in one hit. Just like RD, Caltrops, Oils, etc...

I am at work so I can't look at it again right now, but that's much more reasonable if that's the case. Can you tell how much damage per second it's doing?

Derra

Vangy wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

It wasn't so much a buff but a fix imo. No reason stam.abilities should be doing fire or mag damage.. this was illogical and leftover issues from 1.6 update. It was long over due.

So they should fix the abilities doing too much damage now too then?

I don't think these abilities do too much damage. Let's look at nb for instance. Amush hits just as hard as lotus fan when similarly specced. Same goes for killers bad and impale. Same goes for incap and soul harvest. Heck, power extraction does the same damage as steel tornado before it starts scaling.

So the problem is stamina having higher innate weapondmg on offensive weaponsets then (yeah mag builds can use 2h + DW too but they´re loosing lightattacks scaling with their main attributes which nullifies this for anyting but channeled attacks or burst builds).

Which leads to: Light- and heavyattacks for all weapons should scale with highest resource + highest dmg stat - just to make things equal again.
Or they need to implement a ~1500 basedmg magica melee weapon alternative.

Sure. As soon as 45k max stamina becomes a thing...

Magicka --> has a higher mag pool around 45k+ is common.
Stamina --> smaller stam pool in the 35k range but comes with around 1000 more weapon damage.

It evens out.... I go with destro for most of my DPS needs and my mag DPS is just fine. I only slot dw or 2h when I need some cray burst and dont care about weaving. AKA: bombing in PvP. Destro wins out easily in any kind of sustained fight due to the ult gen and sustain/damage from weaving. Overload bar does well too with DW.

Making all weapons scale with respective resource would break things in mag favour. Imagine my sorc with 4.5k-5.5k spell damage and a 45k mag pool...... That's insane..... Currently its normally like --> 3.3-3.5k spell power with 45k mag vs 4.5-5k weapon damage with 30-35k max stamina. Kinda even imo.

Do you mind explaining why there would be any difference in max stamina compared to magica (without using an outdated set).

I happen to know someone who plays a 47k max stamina sorc. Your argument is wrong.

Father_X_Zombie

via Imgflip Meme Maker

danno8

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I'm loving all these Magplar re-rolls I'm seeing in Cyro atm, they're garbage now. Even more in DB, how would you like your death sir? 1 or 2 shot?

How do Magplars have issues?

danno8 wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I love how the nightblades kept 1-second ganking the ZOS staff during their live show last week. Over and over again.

Then all the ZOS had to say about being confronted with the garbage that they created: "Wow these guys are good!"

Then all you see is a couple of poison strikes in the recap... 1 button. Such skill....

Then a stam DK jumps in and (I think it was Gina) said, "Wow, it takes nine of you to kill this guy."

The rest of us: FACEPALM

Because, the live game isn't going to be any different this week unless it's fixed, and it won't be. I predict Radiant Mage Light is going to be mandatory just to take three steps outside of your keep.

The poison damage better be dealt with. I want to say I saw a 17k hit and @Wrobel couldn't have moved the conversation along any quicker.

@Khaos_Bane

If you watch closely, you will see that 17k was from a poison DoT that ticked for several seconds before he was ganked. In fact you can see he is at full health when he gets hit by the Lotus Fan, ST, PD combo.

So this is just a failure of the death recap to include a (x4) or whatever information modifier so now people think it was all in one hit. Just like RD, Caltrops, Oils, etc...

I am at work so I can't look at it again right now, but that's much more reasonable if that's the case. Can you tell how much damage per second it's doing?

Unfortunately I can't since the quality of the video is pretty pixelated. However you can see the red FCT for quite a while before he gets ganked, and I believe (don't quote me on this) that the effect is suppose to be over 8 seconds, which looks about right.

Vangy

Derra wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

It wasn't so much a buff but a fix imo. No reason stam.abilities should be doing fire or mag damage.. this was illogical and leftover issues from 1.6 update. It was long over due.

So they should fix the abilities doing too much damage now too then?

I don't think these abilities do too much damage. Let's look at nb for instance. Amush hits just as hard as lotus fan when similarly specced. Same goes for killers bad and impale. Same goes for incap and soul harvest. Heck, power extraction does the same damage as steel tornado before it starts scaling.

So the problem is stamina having higher innate weapondmg on offensive weaponsets then (yeah mag builds can use 2h + DW too but they´re loosing lightattacks scaling with their main attributes which nullifies this for anyting but channeled attacks or burst builds).

Which leads to: Light- and heavyattacks for all weapons should scale with highest resource + highest dmg stat - just to make things equal again.
Or they need to implement a ~1500 basedmg magica melee weapon alternative.

Sure. As soon as 45k max stamina becomes a thing...

Magicka --> has a higher mag pool around 45k+ is common.
Stamina --> smaller stam pool in the 35k range but comes with around 1000 more weapon damage.

It evens out.... I go with destro for most of my DPS needs and my mag DPS is just fine. I only slot dw or 2h when I need some cray burst and dont care about weaving. AKA: bombing in PvP. Destro wins out easily in any kind of sustained fight due to the ult gen and sustain/damage from weaving. Overload bar does well too with DW.

Making all weapons scale with respective resource would break things in mag favour. Imagine my sorc with 4.5k-5.5k spell damage and a 45k mag pool...... That's insane..... Currently its normally like --> 3.3-3.5k spell power with 45k mag vs 4.5-5k weapon damage with 30-35k max stamina. Kinda even imo.

Do you mind explaining why there would be any difference in max stamina compared to magica (without using an outdated set).

I happen to know someone who plays a 47k max stamina sorc. Your argument is wrong.

@Derra
Name me any passives other than racials that increase max stamina. Go ahead...... If you think 47k stamina is common.... Im sure everyone knows about things like mages guild passives and abilities + things like sorc passives for example that increase max mag. There's more than enough for me not to list for mag....

If your friend is getting that kind of stamina, he is giving up some serious crit or weapon damage thereby making your initial argument that stamina has higher weapon power invalid. Until I see a screenie with someone running 47k stamina with 4k++ weapon power and some proper crit, its all words.... Mages guild passives and racial/class passives increase max mag. Fighters guild passives increase weapon damage with racial passives increasing max stam. In the end, an optimal magicka build runs higher pools while an optimal stamina build runs higher weapon damage..... Ofcourse, needless to say you can push high spell power or high max stam on non-optimal builds but lets limit the discussion to optimal builds yes. In case you feel im talking hot air, here's some hard evidence to back my claim up;

Example of optimal mag build for PvE : http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/2-3-the-yolo-wizard-v2-non-overload-pve-dps-build-vet-mol-approved/

Example of optimal stamina build for PvE: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/combustion-fear-turbo-eso-so-serpent-hm-stamina-dk-28-6k-mundus/

You can look at more guides done up by exemplary players such as above... Some of the best in their field. Compare max stam to max mag.... And then look at spell damage and weapon damage. They EVEN out....

Firerock2

Joy_Division wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

STA DK was already the top dog DPS for STA builds and NB top dog for burst out of stealth. This patch made the STA DK and STA NB even more powerful with skill changes to disease and poison. In addition they nerfed major defensive skills for MAG Sorcs and turned crit surge into hot garbage.

So keep buffing the best STA classes? WTF

They didn't Nerf sorc shields in PVP they Buffed it actually so they will be fine.You shields wouldn't last more than 6 seconds in PVP anyway.So not that big of a deal.

You have no clue what you are talking about. A properly built sorc with 40k+ magic has shields that do not need to be recast that frequently unless you are an overly defensive tard. Furthermore, this reduces our already pitiful offensive oppurtunity window drastically, and at that, a simple timed CC will mean certain death thanks to such a limited duration.

False against a proper fighter your going to refresh your shields that often actually going against someone applying decent pressure to your shields its going to go done.Also now you also have Harness magica that's also absorb physical damage which mean now you have two hardening wards stacked. So it seems you really don't know what your talking about.

I speak from actual experience. And others whom have dueled me know full well I know what I am talking about, and can attest to the durability of my shields. Who are you? I wanna know your sorc main since you seem to be so knowledge of sorcs. Come share, hot-shot. Otherwise, you are someone else talking out of your ass like all the other non-sorc mains supporting this garbage thinking they know what's what.


Harness change is completely irrelevant. 6 seconds for each shield stack, utter garbage, I dueled on PTS with 45.6k magic worth of shield stacks with Dampen magic and Hardened for 27k total stack, Stam DKs still pierce through it because stamina is broken. I actually lost durability on PTS, crazy I know. But ofc, you are so knowledge, lol. What a joke. I cant do any damage to them. I cant do any DPS. My 27k shield stack is utterly WORTHLESS. Sorcs are worthless next patch, even the cookie-cutter destro/resto builds. Worthless. Just play a turtle with no oppurtunity to DPS because clowns like you talk out of their asses with no actual experience or testing.

You have a 27k shield stack and you say its worthless. It honestly sounds like you just suck at this game, no offense.

To get that 27K stack, at the least 1/3 of every single spell he casts will be a shield - and this is the best case scenario assuming 1 spell every second meaning he is never CCed, never out of range, no cast times (inevitable det), etc. You can say on these forums that he sucks, but if run into him in the open world, there is a good chance you wind up in his next video that he posts.

I'm not too sure he'll want to put a video of his death up on youtube, but what do I know?