Should 2h weapons like staffs/swords/bows count as 2 set piece instead of 1?

Soris

/discuss
and vote!

Mumyo

No

HAHA, you against me old friend

Soris

Yes

Hahah its ok

DDuke

No

Some of them already count as "2,5" set pieces *cough* vMSA weapons *cough*.

DannyLV702

No

Get maelstrom weapons. Problem solved. I'm pretty sure this is the third thread I've seen asking for the same...

Recremen

Yes

I'm for it on principle, but I haven't seen any hard math showing that dual-wield and 1-hand+shield are superior, and in what ways, to bow, 2-handed, and the staff weapons, so chalk me up as a "mostly-undecided but leaning towards set-piece doubling."

Strider_Roshin

Yes

Yes DW does more damage, and benefits from the 2 piece itemization. Staves, bows, and 2H weapons need some love.

Pr0jektile

No

Why are we back to this?

Most 2H weapons have higher base damage and just hit harder to offset not having 2 pieces. Again, we come back to choices and Trade-Off.

The Dual wield weapons do less damage per strike, and strike faster. 2H strikes hit harder, but swing slower. The mechanics are there for a reason.

This is an L2P issue.

Soris

Yes

L2P how to swing? Lol i just asked for ppl's opinions on this. Didn't see any other threads about this aswell.

Pr0jektile

No

Soris wrote: »

L2P how to swing? Lol i just asked for ppl's opinions on this. Didn't see any other threads about this aswell.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150198/2h-weapons-should-be-worth-2set-pieces

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259332/2h-weapons-and-set-bonuses

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256345/bringing-2h-weapons-in-line

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/128851/offhand-set-items-for-2h-weapon

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/119784/change-to-2h-weapon-set-bonus-count

lolo_01b16_ESO

No

MSA restro is already bad enough, no need to buff crafted sets and make it completely useless.

Soris

Yes

Pr0jektile wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

L2P how to swing? Lol i just asked for ppl's opinions on this. Didn't see any other threads about this aswell.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150198/2h-weapons-should-be-worth-2set-pieces

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259332/2h-weapons-and-set-bonuses

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256345/bringing-2h-weapons-in-line

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/128851/offhand-set-items-for-2h-weapon

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/119784/change-to-2h-weapon-set-bonus-count

Thank you mr search tool. Now i learned there were older threads about this but not sure what im suppose to do with this knowledge. But you should definitely find all the old threads about RD, WB, stamsorcs, stamblades, magicka dks and templars and post them in appropriate threads.

Lynx7386

Yes

As far as counting for two set items, yes. This is a serious setback for crafters and crafted sets when compared with dual wield or 1h/shield use, which offers not only more damage or defense but also an extra set slot and enchantment slot.

With poisons coming up, 2h weapon users (bows/staffs as well) will be even further behind, because a dual wielder will be able to put a different poison on each weapon, gaining twice the poison potency.

So, at the very least, I'd like 2h weapons, bows, and staves to count as two items towards set bonuses.

Lynx7386

Yes

Pr0jektile wrote: »

Why are we back to this?

Most 2H weapons have higher base damage and just hit harder to offset not having 2 pieces. Again, we come back to choices and Trade-Off.

The Dual wield weapons do less damage per strike, and strike faster. 2H strikes hit harder, but swing slower. The mechanics are there for a reason.

This is an L2P issue.

No, it isnt.

Dual wield affords you both higher weapon and higher spell power. If the bulk of damage in this game came from heavy attacks or even light attacks, I could possibly agree with your reasoning, but the fact is that every single ability you use is going to deal more damage with dual wield than it would with a 2h equipped, on top of the benefits of having an extra enchantment, poison, and set item bonus.

Soris

Yes

Lynx7386 wrote: »

As far as counting for two set items, yes. This is a serious setback for crafters and crafted sets when compared with dual wield or 1h/shield use, which offers not only more damage or defense but also an extra set slot and enchantment slot.

With poisons coming up, 2h weapon users (bows/staffs as well) will be even further behind, because a dual wielder will be able to put a different poison on each weapon, gaining twice the poison potency.

So, at the very least, I'd like 2h weapons, bows, and staves to count as two items towards set bonuses.

Actually you slot one poison for one bar and one for another. Not 2 different poisons for each weapon you hold.

Pr0jektile

No

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Pr0jektile wrote: »

Why are we back to this?

Most 2H weapons have higher base damage and just hit harder to offset not having 2 pieces. Again, we come back to choices and Trade-Off.

The Dual wield weapons do less damage per strike, and strike faster. 2H strikes hit harder, but swing slower. The mechanics are there for a reason.

This is an L2P issue.

No, it isnt.

Dual wield affords you both higher weapon and higher spell power. If the bulk of damage in this game came from heavy attacks or even light attacks, I could possibly agree with your reasoning, but the fact is that every single ability you use is going to deal more damage with dual wield than it would with a 2h equipped, on top of the benefits of having an extra enchantment, poison, and set item bonus.

2H is a great finisher. The 2H abilities also hit harder than the dual wield abilities out of the gate. The extra base damage is factored into your overall damage and weapon abilities. The Maelstrom weapons also account for this in the 2H weapons giving bigger weapon damage bonuses to account for loss of a slotted item.

2H also allows for Rally, which makes up for what Vigor lacks in stam characters.

It really boils down to play style. Some people are more effective with 2H, some are better with DW.

They're set up to deliver different experiences.

2H delivers more damage, less frequently, making it great for clean up.

DW delivers less damage, more frequently.

There are plenty of successful people running 2H builds that would't look twice at a DW setup.

acw37162

Yes

My opinion yes but it's a ridiculously huge balance issue and prob easily a couple weeks of work.

Which is time not spent on bug fixes, quality of life improvements, and new content.

Strider_Roshin

Yes

Soris wrote: »

L2P how to swing? Lol i just asked for ppl's opinions on this. Didn't see any other threads about this aswell.

A lot of people have been asking for this, and every time it's mentioned a bunch of people get up in arms about it. But that's the forums for ya.

mr_wazzabi

Yes

Pr0jektile wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Pr0jektile wrote: »

Why are we back to this?

Most 2H weapons have higher base damage and just hit harder to offset not having 2 pieces. Again, we come back to choices and Trade-Off.

The Dual wield weapons do less damage per strike, and strike faster. 2H strikes hit harder, but swing slower. The mechanics are there for a reason.

This is an L2P issue.

No, it isnt.

Dual wield affords you both higher weapon and higher spell power. If the bulk of damage in this game came from heavy attacks or even light attacks, I could possibly agree with your reasoning, but the fact is that every single ability you use is going to deal more damage with dual wield than it would with a 2h equipped, on top of the benefits of having an extra enchantment, poison, and set item bonus.

2H is a great finisher. The 2H abilities also hit harder than the dual wield abilities out of the gate. The extra base damage is factored into your overall damage and weapon abilities. The Maelstrom weapons also account for this in the 2H weapons giving bigger weapon damage bonuses to account for loss of a slotted item.

2H also allows for Rally, which makes up for what Vigor lacks in stam characters.

It really boils down to play style. Some people are more effective with 2H, some are better with DW.

They're set up to deliver different experiences.

2H delivers more damage, less frequently, making it great for clean up.

DW delivers less damage, more frequently.

There are plenty of successful people running 2H builds that would't look twice at a DW setup.

Not anymore. Flurry now does higher dps than surprise attack and wrecking blow, without maelstrom weapons. With maelstrom, it's op.

zuto40

acw37162 wrote: »

My opinion yes but it's a ridiculously huge balance issue and prob easily a couple weeks of work.

Which is time not spent on bug fixes, quality of life improvements, and new content.

what bug fixes

Sparky617

No

I would rather see scabbards, quivers, charms, and earnings introduced with jewel crafting. I have always wanted to combine more combinations of set bonuses than the game currently supports.

RebornV3x

Yes

Yes since sorcs are going to be using destro staves alot more next patch and were losing a good chunk of DPS because getting the most spell damage from dual wielding swords is dumb I thought mages used staffs.
Destruction Staffs should count as a two set since you hold it with both hands and a passive that increases spell damage by 5% maybe get rid of Ancient Knowledge and rename in Staff Mastery while Twin Blade and Blunt does 5% Weapon Damage (better yet have it scale to which ever is the highest stat so if your a Sorc that wants to dual wield why not and if you wanna use a desrto staff as any class your welcome to do so.)

Anti_Virus

Yes

Bow should count as two pieces.

The bow is one piece

The quiver is the second piece.

Delegator

There are several aspects to balancing one weapon versus two. Passives (such as heavy weapons vs dual wield expert), contribution of weapon traits, and the ability to have another incremental set bonus or not. Then there's just the weapon damage itself (or weapon damage + protection in the case of 1h-shield), the ability or not to perform ranged attacks, and so on.

Simple example: how much is it worth to be able to light/heavy attack from range with a staff or bow, compared to the melee requirement for DW, 2H or 1h/shield? And how do you compensate for that? I can tell you from experience that the higher spell damage of DW Swords (which I agree makes no sense to me) is at least partially offset by the inability to attack from range with them PLUS the fact that this means my weapon enchantments never proc.

So, I'm not going to answer the poll above. I'll just see what the devs do and choose accordingly. I think it's really hard to come up with a single best answer.

Tdroid

Yes

While I don't think that the 2-handed weapons specifically needs them(though some math could prove me wrong), I do think that staffs and bows would be a good idea(again, math can prove me wrong).

And, as a 2-handed player, i wouldn't mind getting that bonus on 2-handers as well, but that is just me.

STEVIL

No

Staves and bows vs Dw and SnBweapon... wonder what the advantage that staves and bows bring to the table that offsets the second set slot? Wait, its on the tip of my tongue (yeah i type with my tongue) oh yeah... RANGE.

So, 2 slot eq staves and bows are melee range only... done and done. Easy.

For 2h, given the number of "everyone has to use 2h its so good" threads where i have argued "it should be bc it costs you a slot" the idea of adding the slot in makes me think.... no.

the slots vs potency vs range thing is part of the differentiation that makes weapon choices matter.

So, should we homogenize more more more plain same... no.

YMMV

Turelus

No

No, I think it makes for more interesting diversity and choice in building characters to have to make the choice here.

LorDrek

Yes

2h weapons need litlle boost.

Tillalarrien

No

No! I think all ppl saying yes right now are users of those 1 piece weapons, wanting a BUFF.
But keep in mind that apparently you CHOSE to use such weapon IN SPITE the fact that you will loose 1 set piece.

If everyone would run only dualwield and s&b exclusively I'd consider this a valid question but as it is now I think 2handers, bows destro in resto staffs really DON'T NEED A BUFF.
You are allowed to use any weapon. If you are still using 2H or destro then you apparently decided that its benefits outweight those of other weapons. Seems hypocritical to me that you are now asking for additional buff.

Mojmir

Yes

Tillalarrien wrote: »

No! I think all ppl saying yes right now are users of those 1 piece weapons, wanting a BUFF.
But keep in mind that apparently you CHOSE to use such weapon IN SPITE the fact that you will loose 1 set piece.

If everyone would run only dualwield and s&b exclusively I'd consider this a valid question but as it is now I think 2handers, destro in resto staffs really DON'T NEED A BUFF.
You are allowed to use any weapon. If you are still using 2H or destro then you apparently decided that its benefits outway those of other weapons. Seems hypocritical to me that you are now asking for additional buff.

i run multiple wep choices across 6 characters that are magicka. only one is using staves exclusively as a DK. my 2 stamina characters have all but sword and board unlocked. its silly that a magic class can do more damage with swords than than he can with his staff.

Tillalarrien

No

Mojmir wrote: »

i run multiple wep choices across 6 characters that are magicka. only one is using staves exclusively as a DK. my 2 stamina characters have all but sword and board unlocked. its silly that a magic class can do more damage with swords than than he can with his staff.

That just shows that apparently you think dualwield for more dmg and extra slot suits your builds and playstyle better then magicka return, range and extra skills you would get with destro and resto staff.

Weapon as it is now depends on your playstyle:
You want more spell dmg? Ok but you will be melee.
You want range and extra sustai? Ok but you will do slightly less dmg.
Its a trade-off.

Right now in PvP the only weapon i see less is bow, but that is not for the lack of 2nd slot.

Stamina builds are most likely to run a 2H. Some swap this for dualwield if they dont need gapcloser or heal, or s&b for extra protection.
For magicka dualwield is popular front bar but I see just as many flame staffs spamming flamereaches as there is no tommorow. And dont get me started on resto bar as almost every mag user have healing ward somewhere. Again if mag build prefers more tanky approach he can go for s&b but in turns looses both dmg, range and magicka return.

So no. You are able to choose anything you want. People are not using dw and s&b any more then other weapons, they just depend on the build and what are you going for, so I see absolutely no reason other weapons should be buffed this way.
It also makes no sense from purely game design point. 2h weapons are 1 piece weapons and making them count as 2 would just be ridiculous. I could as easely then request that my dualwield light attack gets buffed so it can hit as hard as 2h one. Different styles are here for diversity, and diversity is what you are apparently trying to remove for some reason.

I would suggest an experiment. Everyone here just tell on your post what weapons are you running on your chars

from few of my characters: NB 2h/s&b, NB dw/s&b, SORC 2h/bow, TEMP dw/resto
as you see I am just as likely to use 1piece weapon as i am to use 2piece one. It depends on the build and while number of set bonuses is defenitly a point for using a weapon is far from the only thing that counts. Thats why again: I see no reason to directly BUFF more then HALF of the WEAPONS!