Critical surge..stamsorc.

Tyrannitar

RoyJade wrote: »

In ve, it's a pure hps loss, but in pvp it's not. Most hit won't heal you for 3k heal in pvp actually, but with this change we can get a better sustain. Sad that other build has been nerfed, especially 2H and pve who will probably be at the same place dual wield is in pvp actually…

Surge should really heal without cooldown on every direct hit/dot. But even like this, that's tank build who will be screwed.

Disagreed. I run Hunding's and nightmother's and even with the value not being affected by battle spirit, I can light attack and flying blade on someone with full impen and still come out with more hps than on the pts...

Tyrannitar

olsborg wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Healing for 3k a second is strong since it applies to dots which happen during cc, repositioning, and running away.

Critsurge heals for more then 3k, thats just the base heal, wich is then boosted by cp or other factor, aswell as crit, and currently isnt affected by battlespirit.

Even with crit applied, the HPS is barely anything....


If you don't play endgame stam sorc on live, you wouldn't realize how bad of a nerf this is.... I just wish people would stop commenting after playing them on the PTS once or twice.

Tyrannitar

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Healing for 3k a second is strong since it applies to dots which happen during cc, repositioning, and running away.

.... This can already be achieved by dodge-rolling and throwing ANY ranged instant-cast currently.

Brutusmax1mus

I like it because it can heal while you're incapacitated or disengaging. My Stam sorc is a pvp tank, so my crit heals weren't much anyway.

Tyrannitar

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I like it because it can heal while you're incapacitated or disengaging. My Stam sorc is a pvp tank, so my crit heals weren't much anyway.

Would you say, then, that this is another nerf to endgame stam sorc DPS specifically since the value no longer scales and is a fixed value?

Jar_Ek

As I said it's a nerf to non DoT dps builds and a buff to DoT and Tank builds. That's my take anyway. Certainly it doesn't compare with the hps from a high crit, pve 2h or steel tornado build.

Brrrofski

I've redone my stam Sorc build ready for DB to hit in about a month.

Not sure what I think often change. I can heal for like 8k from wrecking blows currently. Poison injection and caltrops would be a nice consistent heal though. Farming sheer Venom for my stam Sorc, so wonder how the poison tick from that will work as a heal.

STEVIL

Tyrannitar wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Healing for 3k a second is strong since it applies to dots which happen during cc, repositioning, and running away.

Critsurge heals for more then 3k, thats just the base heal, wich is then boosted by cp or other factor, aswell as crit, and currently isnt affected by battlespirit.

Even with crit applied, the HPS is barely anything....


If you don't play endgame stam sorc on live, you wouldn't realize how bad of a nerf this is.... I just wish people would stop commenting after playing them on the PTS once or twice.

So, crit surge backbar cast 1 click. 33s runtime... how much healing over the 33s runtime fight do you think crit surge needs to do to meet your needs for sufficient balance while running a dps attack scheme?

Lets assume 20k healthbar.

olsborg

I got at the most, a 5.4k crit heal twice during 2 seconds using critsurge on a keep guard in cyrodiil, if thats not nice, then....I dunno.

Jar_Ek

Getting crit surge to crit is based on spell crit isn't it? So that's what 25% on a stamina sorcerer if you're lucky?

dsalter

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Getting crit surge to crit is based on spell crit isn't it? So that's what 25% on a stamina sorcerer if you're lucky?

its based on weapon crit by default

Brutusmax1mus

I'm PvP i think it will be roughly the same hps but in a different way. I would get huge heals with wb or executioner, but that's only during combat. I don't run ranged attacks, i run snb and 2h so that don't have a way to "throw a ranged attack". But i may switch to bow.

Brutusmax1mus

I think of it like trading a little hps for could variety as well

Jar_Ek

@dsalter ah, ok thx. So is power surge heal crit based on spell crit then?

Erock25

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@dsalter ah, ok thx. So is power surge heal crit based on spell crit then?

Haven't tested it myself but multiple people have said the new crit surge heal is critting based on spell crit. Must be fixed before going to live, if true.

Jar_Ek

@Erock25 it needs to be critting the heals based on the damage type of the attack that triggered it but that would be hard to code. I guess it could work off highest crit value - but anything else is going to stuff some build or other up...

exiledtyrant

It does seem to scale off of spell crit and spell critical healing CP instead of weapon critical and weapon critical healing CP. I did some test in city of ash with 25% weapon crit to 50% weapon crit and didn't notice a change in the frequency of surge heal criticals. Mean while a change of 10% to 25% gave a noticeable change in crit heal frequency. The CP was easier to look at by simply adding and subtracting points. This may all change today with the patch notes however.

If nothing changes a stamina sorcerer could still achieve a 41% critical chance by investing 30 points into Blessed for increased healing, using the thief mundus, and using precise weaponry. That's base 10+ 12 + 12 +7. Not comparable to the 60-70+% potential weapon crit rate but not terrible either.

dsalter

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@dsalter ah, ok thx. So is power surge heal crit based on spell crit then?

Erock25 wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@dsalter ah, ok thx. So is power surge heal crit based on spell crit then?

Haven't tested it myself but multiple people have said the new crit surge heal is critting based on spell crit. Must be fixed before going to live, if true.

to answer you both i believe the crittage is based on weapon by default but the heal amount is based on spell crit

Flaminir

From the PTS patch just now.... so battle spirit will now kick in... which halves the already low heal

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Sorcerer

• Storm Calling
  • Hurricane (Lightning Form morph): Updated the visual effects for this morph based on your feedback.
  • Surge: This ability and its morphs will now critically heal based on your Weapon Critical or Spell Critical, whichever is higher. We also fixed an issue where the heal from this ability and its morphs was not being reduced by Battle Spirit.

Khaos_Bane

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Sounds like Major Mending, 100 Blessed 100 Quick Mending 66 Elfborn, and then a couple things besides.

For all we know, this dude could have 35k stam and 50% crit so those surge heals seem accurate to me.

Both of the values you mention are a bit low.

Tyrannitar

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Sounds like Major Mending, 100 Blessed 100 Quick Mending 66 Elfborn, and then a couple things besides.

For all we know, this dude could have 35k stam and 50% crit so those surge heals seem accurate to me.

Both of the values you mention are a bit low.

Everybody commenting that this surge change is a good idea doesn't have a V16 stam sorc... Or sorc for that matter. I'd bet my life on it. Plain and simple. We're nerfed into oblivion and it's not changing. Blade and Soul here I come.

@Wrobel, you've got until the 31st to remove the cooldown on crit surge and allow DoTs to apply.

You're gaining popularity with noobs who have spent maybe 30$ on the game. You're losing your actual player base by pandering to them with a flat-rate self heal that was already lackluster prior to this nerf. You're upping the cooldown to 1 second, rather than removing it like the community has suggested ever since you put one on it.

Grats on listening to PVE sorcs with the change to their shield...

But for a class you guys have promised a buff for our class for literally years.... You're killing this class.

We can't pull endgame dps and right now on live I'm THE easiest class to kill in cyrodiil.

(Not due to lack of skill. Even with my comparatively low dps, my hps and skill has enabled me to get to round 6 of vet maelstrom.. Still a work in progress, but by no means is this a case of "git gud")

My stam sorc is my main, and the only class I really enjoy the mechanics of. I've got a magicka nb and a stam dk (because you guys buff the hell out of them every patch... I guess that's what happens when the devs all play the same class and not a single one educates themselves on stam sorc.) but I don't enjoy them. Plain and simple.

Stam sorcs were about skill and reaction time. With this change to surge, they're nothing special whatsoever and their role can easily be replaced by a stam dk with a good rotation. They've got more DoTs and more damage mitigation and better heals. With the introduction of stam shields.... Stam sorc is so dead.

In pvp, we just got another vigor. I'm replacing surge WITH RALLY.

Read that again @wrobel. You just took away my spike heals. My reaction time heals.

I'm replacing my CLASS DEFINING SKILL. THE ONLY THING THAT MADE STAM SORC FEEL UNIQUE for rally.

You're ruining stam sorc, wrobel.

Give us an instant cast class single-target dps ability (no hurricane doesn't count even with implosion.)

Let crit surge scale based off of crit damage done like before, but remove the cooldown! Even pre-1.5 when there was no cooldown on stam sorcs, we were still getting rekt in pvp.

As is on live, I can light attack and flying blade on someone in pvp and get 5k health in less than a second on someone IN FULL IMPEN. I'll provide screenshots if necessary, but now crit surge is literally giving me back less hps than rally/ vigor in an actual fight.

As in, surge is now giving me about 2k hps in PVP and 7k hps in PVE.

That looks awesome if your weapon damage is below 3.2k and your crit rate below 60%.... AKA if you started playing a stam sorc right after the last expansion dropped.

If you're wearing golded out armor with robust agility rings, have been paying sub since beta, and buy almost every mount that drops.... 2k hps in PVP is laughable... But not in a funny way.

I could write another dissertation on why we're lacking in endgame PVE, but I'm in CSH and I straight up can't even get into a group for vMOL for a summary there.

We don't have good dps, we don't have good survivability, and we don't have a dev that plays our class. We're stuck, it seems.

I WANT TO PLAY ENDGAME CONTENT WITH AN ENDGAME CHARACTER, @Wrobel

Please PLEASE stop nerfing him. Look at the bolded lines if you guys are allergic to feedback like it seems.

Tyrannitar

Flaminir wrote: »

From the PTS patch just now.... so battle spirit will now kick in... which halves the already low heal

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Sorcerer

• Storm Calling
  • Hurricane (Lightning Form morph): Updated the visual effects for this morph based on your feedback.
  • Surge: This ability and its morphs will now critically heal based on your Weapon Critical or Spell Critical, whichever is higher. We also fixed an issue where the heal from this ability and its morphs was not being reduced by Battle Spirit.

.... I'm seriously getting red-faced reading all of these patch notes for the PTS.

They said they'd show us some love and I guess they are in a way. They're ripping away everything that made stam sorc fun and showing us how much we loved crit surge before @wrobel started trying to fix the mechanic.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around a self-heal that doesn't scale based off of any stat...

We were asking for a buff and he cuts our hps by 3/4th and makes it less reliable than before.... Idek what to think about this.

STEVIL

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Everybody commenting that this surge change is a good idea doesn't have a V16 stam sorc... Or sorc for that matter. I'd bet my life on it.

@Wrobel, you've got until the 31st to remove the cooldown on crit surge and allow DoTs to apply.

You're gaining popularity with noobs who have spent maybe 30$ on the game.

Where would you like the flowers sent?

V16 sorc and v14 sorc currently with new stamsorc as soon as they would allow me to give them more money for char slots.

Not noob (developed 10 vet lvl chars so far with last check about 540 cp, pre-order) and way over 30 bucks in (paid more than that for my banker Stibbons)

Tyrannitar

STEVIL wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Everybody commenting that this surge change is a good idea doesn't have a V16 stam sorc... Or sorc for that matter. I'd bet my life on it.

@Wrobel, you've got until the 31st to remove the cooldown on crit surge and allow DoTs to apply.

You're gaining popularity with noobs who have spent maybe 30$ on the game.

Where would you like the flowers sent?

V16 sorc and v14 sorc currently with new stamsorc as soon as they would allow me to give them more money for char slots.

Not noob (developed 10 vet lvl chars so far with last check about 540 cp, pre-order) and way over 30 bucks in (paid more than that for my banker Stibbons)

How can you even think this is a buff? The tooltips on the skill and the cooldown mathematically indicate that it'd give you lower hps than it does currently on live.

When tested you get less hps than currently on live.

There are screenshots on screenshots on screenshots to prove it...

When numbers are telling me one thing and you're telling me another, I'm gonna have to listen to the numbers.

Ajax_22

STEVIL wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Everybody commenting that this surge change is a good idea doesn't have a V16 stam sorc... Or sorc for that matter. I'd bet my life on it.

@Wrobel, you've got until the 31st to remove the cooldown on crit surge and allow DoTs to apply.

You're gaining popularity with noobs who have spent maybe 30$ on the game.

Where would you like the flowers sent?

V16 sorc and v14 sorc currently with new stamsorc as soon as they would allow me to give them more money for char slots.

Not noob (developed 10 vet lvl chars so far with last check about 540 cp, pre-order) and way over 30 bucks in (paid more than that for my banker Stibbons)

You've got ZOS' *** shoved so far down your throat that you're suffering from oxygen deprivation. That is the only possible explanation for your amount of idiotic fanboyism.