Vampires: Give them NEED to feed!!!!!

Ethromelb14_ESO

Vigarr wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

1) Vampires are IMMUNE to the SUN, but BURN from FIRE ... of any type ... magic or non.

The "sun" in TES is a big hole in the sky...no joke, look it up.

I know this may be true, but in the same TES lore, vampires burned from the sun in Oblivion, like a baby born from the Human Torch knocking-up a Flame Atronach.

Ethromelb14_ESO

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Your request is already partially implemented (there is already a penalty for not feeding, in terms of health regeneration which decreases from stage 2 to 4), and will be implemented even more with the next patch (damage from fire will increase from 0% in stage 1 to 25% in stage 4).

So, I think you can be happy with this.

The idea of death from not feeding is simply ridiculous, since no living (which means eating...) being in ESO dies from not feeding...

Not quite totally correct:
Sure, the WW does not die from not feeding, but he has to feed continuously to keep up his form.
If ANY being is fudged, it'd be the Werewolf.

Aside: seeing all the advantages a Vampire has, what would a minor "annoyance" matter?

Dude, you seriously have got to play a vampire before you spew this stuff. You call your suggestion a minor annoyance? You have no idea what a vamp player has to put up with, let alone the stupid system set in place for playing as one. Try doing vMA as a vampire, and lets see how you feel. Try having NOBODY to feed on during or after combat while your hunger continually increases, only making the next fire ridden-arena that much harder.

Name me a section in Tamriel where the threat of poison is just a constant high threat for a werewolf. Werewolves have excellent CC, natural strength with strong active abilities, a barely used weakness, and get stronger when among their own kind. What the heck are you complaining about? And to add insult to injury, they can HEAL themselves - from HOWLING, BETTER than a vampire can, on top of being able to heal from eating a corpse.

Man, you werewolf whiners are off your rocker if you think you hold a candle to a vampire when it comes to unfairness. You'll need to just stop.

Name you a section of Tamriel dangerous to a werewolf?...alright how about central BlackMarsh where it is so poisonous, no Man or Mer can tread there.

lol Ok, let's try that again. Name a place in ESO that poses the same problem. Let's not be desperate with our rebuttal, and make sure we stay on the same page. We are discussing vamps and werewolves in the ESO, and the problems they face therein.

Gidorick

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Your request is already partially implemented (there is already a penalty for not feeding, in terms of health regeneration which decreases from stage 2 to 4), and will be implemented even more with the next patch (damage from fire will increase from 0% in stage 1 to 25% in stage 4).

So, I think you can be happy with this.

The idea of death from not feeding is simply ridiculous, since no living (which means eating...) being in ESO dies from not feeding...

Not quite totally correct:
Sure, the WW does not die from not feeding, but he has to feed continuously to keep up his form.
If ANY being is fudged, it'd be the Werewolf.

Aside: seeing all the advantages a Vampire has, what would a minor "annoyance" matter?

Dude, you seriously have got to play a vampire before you spew this stuff. You call your suggestion a minor annoyance? You have no idea what a vamp player has to put up with, let alone the stupid system set in place for playing as one. Try doing vMA as a vampire, and lets see how you feel. Try having NOBODY to feed on during or after combat while your hunger continually increases, only making the next fire ridden-arena that much harder.

Name me a section in Tamriel where the threat of poison is just a constant high threat for a werewolf. Werewolves have excellent CC, natural strength with strong active abilities, a barely used weakness, and get stronger when among their own kind. What the heck are you complaining about? And to add insult to injury, they can HEAL themselves - from HOWLING, BETTER than a vampire can, on top of being able to heal from eating a corpse.

Man, you werewolf whiners are off your rocker if you think you hold a candle to a vampire when it comes to unfairness. You'll need to just stop.

Name you a section of Tamriel dangerous to a werewolf?...alright how about central BlackMarsh where it is so poisonous, no Man or Mer can tread there.

Ok, let's try that again. Name a place in ESO that poses the same problem. Let's not be desperate with our rebuttal, and make sure we stay on the same page. We are discussing vamps and werewolves in the ESO, and the problems they face therein.

lol. This is an even response @Ethromelb14_ESO . @TX12001rwb17_ESO made me laugh with their response.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

.

starkerealm wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Interesting points, but not convincing, like:

starkerealm wrote: »

Ultimately, you will, from time to time, find yourself in situations where you can't feed for the next hour or two.

This for instance is dealt with in the DB DLC: 2 hour counters per stage, if I got that right.

Six hours. Except, every use of an active ability from the vampire skill line knocks 30 minutes off the timer.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Furthermore, "death" in what context? It kills the player? Then what? It immediately kills them again on resurrection, because they're in the same exact situation as before?

To this I can say: set the timer to 30 minutes upon death for the player to feed.
Upon failure, he, yes, will drop dead.
Rince and repeat as needed.

Ahh, brilliant. Did you just click devouring swarm to save your life? Well, now you're dead. Respawn. Yes, that's the kind of "immersion" we need in our games.

If the game had a death state where you had to reload from a prior save, it's justifiable, because (no, that didn't happen), and you go back and play it again. But the same thing isn't true of ESO's respawn mechanic.

Ultimately, if you realize it or not, death is just a small gold penalty in ESO. So instead of your character dying, all that will actually be accomplished is a small cash penalty. Which is just going to be irritating, not really immersive.

"Oh, look, I starved to death, so all my equipment was damaged by that."

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Things like sunlight vulnerability are fine in a game where you can kick the clock forward. But in ESO your only choice there would be to log off for four hours. Which is why ESO actually goes out of its way to say, "no, no, no, these vampires are immune to sunlight."

I never mentioned sunlight.

I'm aware. I'm talking about mechanics for vampires being ejected because they wouldn't fit in the game. Like death on starvation. It's fine in a non-mmo. It may even be a good option in a survival focused MMO where starvation is a normal threat to all players. But, for ESO, and really the Elder Scrolls in general, it doesn't fit how vampires function. Vampires in this setting cannot starve to death. When they do starve, they get increasingly frenzied until they go kill crazy ripping people apart. And even that isn't assured. We've seen Daughters of Cold Harbour who have gone without feeding for over 1k years without any considerable ill effects. That's actually Tamerilic lore. The idea that your vampire will keel over and die if they haven't eaten in four days is simply not supported in the way vampires work in this setting.

If this was a World of Darkness game, then sure. Your vampire hasn't fed in 10 days? They slip into torpor and can't recover. But, Elder Scrolls? It's just not how vampires work at all.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

See, the solutions are very simple, and making it that a Vampire HAS to feed to live, as it should be, will humble them...
As said, they are virtually overpowered.
I know, i am one.

Well, I'm not a vampire. I have two characters who are, however. And I've got a pretty good idea what you can and cannot do with them. Vampires are very powerful if properly handled, and utter trash tier when mishandled. You're not going to humble players by nerfing the crap out of the vampire skill line by adding mechanics that have no place in The Elder Scrolls. This is, quite literally, the wrong setting for that.

well said sir, couldn't have said it better

TES has never been a survival game, there has been mods yes, but the base game has never been about survival. If you want survival, this is the wrong series for you. Hell probably the wrong game type, there are not many mmo's out there that have survival, i can scarcely think of 2 off the top of my head.

The vampire 'need to feed to survive' is not supported by canon, as such not viable for implementation, as stated by many other posters, Some vampires in lore have overcome their hunger, Valerica being the most popular example, going for millinia without feeding, hell its suggested that Valerica has been in the soul cairn since before recorded tamrielic history.

This is the way it works, its the way it will work in future games. Attempting to change such a long standing, lore supported mechanic, well, its pointless, and many fans will stand stubbornly in your way, i always will

TX12001rwb17_ESO

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

.

starkerealm wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Interesting points, but not convincing, like:

starkerealm wrote: »

Ultimately, you will, from time to time, find yourself in situations where you can't feed for the next hour or two.

This for instance is dealt with in the DB DLC: 2 hour counters per stage, if I got that right.

Six hours. Except, every use of an active ability from the vampire skill line knocks 30 minutes off the timer.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Furthermore, "death" in what context? It kills the player? Then what? It immediately kills them again on resurrection, because they're in the same exact situation as before?

To this I can say: set the timer to 30 minutes upon death for the player to feed.
Upon failure, he, yes, will drop dead.
Rince and repeat as needed.

Ahh, brilliant. Did you just click devouring swarm to save your life? Well, now you're dead. Respawn. Yes, that's the kind of "immersion" we need in our games.

If the game had a death state where you had to reload from a prior save, it's justifiable, because (no, that didn't happen), and you go back and play it again. But the same thing isn't true of ESO's respawn mechanic.

Ultimately, if you realize it or not, death is just a small gold penalty in ESO. So instead of your character dying, all that will actually be accomplished is a small cash penalty. Which is just going to be irritating, not really immersive.

"Oh, look, I starved to death, so all my equipment was damaged by that."

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Things like sunlight vulnerability are fine in a game where you can kick the clock forward. But in ESO your only choice there would be to log off for four hours. Which is why ESO actually goes out of its way to say, "no, no, no, these vampires are immune to sunlight."

I never mentioned sunlight.

I'm aware. I'm talking about mechanics for vampires being ejected because they wouldn't fit in the game. Like death on starvation. It's fine in a non-mmo. It may even be a good option in a survival focused MMO where starvation is a normal threat to all players. But, for ESO, and really the Elder Scrolls in general, it doesn't fit how vampires function. Vampires in this setting cannot starve to death. When they do starve, they get increasingly frenzied until they go kill crazy ripping people apart. And even that isn't assured. We've seen Daughters of Cold Harbour who have gone without feeding for over 1k years without any considerable ill effects. That's actually Tamerilic lore. The idea that your vampire will keel over and die if they haven't eaten in four days is simply not supported in the way vampires work in this setting.

If this was a World of Darkness game, then sure. Your vampire hasn't fed in 10 days? They slip into torpor and can't recover. But, Elder Scrolls? It's just not how vampires work at all.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

See, the solutions are very simple, and making it that a Vampire HAS to feed to live, as it should be, will humble them...
As said, they are virtually overpowered.
I know, i am one.

Well, I'm not a vampire. I have two characters who are, however. And I've got a pretty good idea what you can and cannot do with them. Vampires are very powerful if properly handled, and utter trash tier when mishandled. You're not going to humble players by nerfing the crap out of the vampire skill line by adding mechanics that have no place in The Elder Scrolls. This is, quite literally, the wrong setting for that.

well said sir, couldn't have said it better

TES has never been a survival game, there has been mods yes, but the base game has never been about survival. If you want survival, this is the wrong series for you. Hell probably the wrong game type, there are not many mmo's out there that have survival, i can scarcely think of 2 off the top of my head.

The vampire 'need to feed to survive' is not supported by canon, as such not viable for implementation, as stated by many other posters, Some vampires in lore have overcome their hunger, Valerica being the most popular example, going for millinia without feeding, hell its suggested that Valerica has been in the soul cairn since before recorded tamrielic history.

This is the way it works, its the way it will work in future games. Attempting to change such a long standing, lore supported mechanic, well, its pointless, and many fans will stand stubbornly in your way, i always will

Vampires only functioned like that since Oblivion then it kind of diverged when Dawnguard came out and the Vampire Lord got STRONGER BY FEEDING, YEAH THATS HOW YOU GAINED PERKS AND IT HEALED YOU, so its not long standing infact I have not seen one lore reference that ever mentioned that this starving to get stronger thing is anything more then Game Mechanics that were put there to cater to "noobs who couldn't handle a challenge and it did come about when the Series got dumbed down" and if you believe game mechanics equal lore then does that mean people cannot starve or die of Thirst on Nirn as well?

Hell Look at Rona Hassildor, she became unconscious because she didn't drink blood and that was in Oblivion, that part right there is lore.

starkerealm

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vampires only functioned like that since Oblivion then it kind of diverged when Dawnguard came out and the Vampire Lord got STRONGER BY FEEDING, YEAH THATS HOW YOU GAINED PERKS AND IT HEALED YOU, so its not long standing infact I have not seen one lore reference that ever mentioned that this starving to get stronger thing is anything more then Game Mechanics that were put there to cater to "noobs who couldn't handle a challenge and it did come about when the Series got dumbed down" and if you believe game mechanics equal lore then does that mean people cannot starve or die of Thirst on Nirn as well?

Nothing involved in the changes with Vampires going from Morrowind to Oblivion was about dumbing down the franchise. You can argue that some other changes, like the removal of medium armor, crossbows, thrown weapons, and spears were, but the changes to vampires were exactly the opposite.

Vampires in Morrowind were a flat stat bonus with a few additional spells. There were no stages. It was simply, "oh, you're a horrifying monster of the night now," and almost everyone would treat you as hostile on contact from that point forward.

There were only something like 11 quests in the entirety of Morrowind you could complete as a vampire. And nine of those were mutually exclusive limiting you to three of them per playthrough.

You could choose to be a vampire, and roleplay that. But you couldn't actually advance the game in any meaningful way.

The changes weren't about "noobs" and were about making the entire system more interesting for a player. Moving into Oblivion players had the option of being a vampire who kept their nature hidden and passed themselves off as normal, operating in normal society.

As much as Morrowind veterans love that game, the simple truth is, vampirism on Vvardenfell was boring.

If there's any argument for dumbing down, it's the removal of the kill on sight mechanic with Dawnguard, but that has more to do with the DLC requiring you enter towns in Stage 4 to complete some quests, without immediately invalidating non-stealth vampire builds.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Hell Look at Rona Hassildor, she became unconscious because she didn't drink blood and that was in Oblivion, that part right there is lore.

Look at Serena who went without blood since sometime before the First Era, and seems to be doing fine without it. Or of course all of the other bloodstarved vampires we find trapped in various places that frenzy when they get a whiff of blood.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vampires only functioned like that since Oblivion then it kind of diverged when Dawnguard came out and the Vampire Lord got STRONGER BY FEEDING, YEAH THATS HOW YOU GAINED PERKS AND IT HEALED YOU, so its not long standing infact I have not seen one lore reference that ever mentioned that this starving to get stronger thing is anything more then Game Mechanics that were put there to cater to "noobs who couldn't handle a challenge and it did come about when the Series got dumbed down" and if you believe game mechanics equal lore then does that mean people cannot starve or die of Thirst on Nirn as well?

Nothing involved in the changes with Vampires going from Morrowind to Oblivion was about dumbing down the franchise. You can argue that some other changes, like the removal of medium armor, crossbows, thrown weapons, and spears were, but the changes to vampires were exactly the opposite.

Vampires in Morrowind were a flat stat bonus with a few additional spells. There were no stages. It was simply, "oh, you're a horrifying monster of the night now," and almost everyone would treat you as hostile on contact from that point forward.

There were only something like 11 quests in the entirety of Morrowind you could complete as a vampire. And nine of those were mutually exclusive limiting you to three of them per playthrough.

You could choose to be a vampire, and roleplay that. But you couldn't actually advance the game in any meaningful way.

The changes weren't about "noobs" and were about making the entire system more interesting for a player. Moving into Oblivion players had the option of being a vampire who kept their nature hidden and passed themselves off as normal, operating in normal society.

As much as Morrowind veterans love that game, the simple truth is, vampirism on Vvardenfell was boring.

If there's any argument for dumbing down, it's the removal of the kill on sight mechanic with Dawnguard, but that has more to do with the DLC requiring you enter towns in Stage 4 to complete some quests, without immediately invalidating non-stealth vampire builds.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Hell Look at Rona Hassildor, she became unconscious because she didn't drink blood and that was in Oblivion, that part right there is lore.

Look at Serena who went without blood since sometime before the First Era, and seems to be doing fine without it. Or of course all of the other bloodstarved vampires we find trapped in various places that frenzy when they get a whiff of blood.

Perhaps only weak vampires get weak from drinking blood as blood isn't healthy to drink, As a vampire gets older and more powerful they begin to beable to stomach the blood and it ends up making them stronger, because its kind of ironic now in ESO how their abilities now drain them of Blood which shows their abilities are powered by it.

NovaMarx

Necrelios wrote: »

The vampire passives seem to contradict the lore anyways. Lamae Bal says to "FEED and grow stronger." not "Starve and grow stronger." I would be happy if they flipped the stages so they actually make sense.

^ This.
I have always thought that the way feeding works should be reversed. As in you become more "vampiry"/stronger for feeding, not like it is now where if you don't feed you increase in stages.

If they had made it so that it was necessary to feed to be max vamp stage, that would have been an incentive to actually feed and also more immersion friendly.

starkerealm

NovaMarx wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

The vampire passives seem to contradict the lore anyways. Lamae Bal says to "FEED and grow stronger." not "Starve and grow stronger." I would be happy if they flipped the stages so they actually make sense.

^ This.
I have always thought that the way feeding works should be reversed. As in you become more "vampiry"/stronger for feeding, not like it is now where if you don't feed you increase in stages.

If they had made it so that it was necessary to feed to be max vamp stage, that would have been an incentive to actually feed and also more immersion friendly.

To be fair, that's actually one of the more important ways that Vampires in The Elder Scrolls are different from your generic fantasy vampires.

Inherently, they're borderline feral monsters who will go kill crazy. They feed to suppress those impulses, and allow themselves to interact with society. It's not that a fully fed vampire is "weaker," it's that they're restraining themselves, and suppressing their nature more effectively. Why that suppression locks out abilities like their charm power, I couldn't tell you. But, conceptually, it's not about them becoming stronger when they're unfed.

From a gameplay standpoint, the concept is a little different. In Morrowind (and I'm told in Daggerfall) vampires were borderline unplayable. Insanely powerful killcrazy monsters, but you couldn't participate in the main game. Oblivion's change to feeding stages meant that there was a range for characters between unplayable monster who can only hunt and kill and a more "civilized," conventional vampire, who hides in civilization passing themselves off as a member of mortal society.

Skyrim then started messing with things by adding an entirely new form of vampires to the setting. Vampire Lords are an entirely different kind of Molag Balness, and follow a different set of rules from normal vampires. This is somewhat confused because they are also vampires. But the Vampire Lord itself is an entirely different monster created by the same Daedric Prince.

EDIT: As an aside, I'm inclined to call the Vampire Lords a failed experiment by Molag Bal. Given how rare they are, it's apparent he didn't feel the need to make more after the initial batch. This could be, because they're powerful enough to actually threaten him, or because the post-first generation replication rate is far to unreliable.

Tholian1

NovaMarx wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

The vampire passives seem to contradict the lore anyways. Lamae Bal says to "FEED and grow stronger." not "Starve and grow stronger." I would be happy if they flipped the stages so they actually make sense.

^ This.
I have always thought that the way feeding works should be reversed. As in you become more "vampiry"/stronger for feeding, not like it is now where if you don't feed you increase in stages.

If they had made it so that it was necessary to feed to be max vamp stage, that would have been an incentive to actually feed and also more immersion friendly.

I have to agree with this. It would make more sense to get all the perks at stage 1. It isn't always convenient to find a humanoid enemy to feed on. You would need to just starve, get a bounty for feeding on a friendly npc or go hunt for an appropriate type of enemy to feed the hunger. It just makes more sense this way.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

NovaMarx wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

The vampire passives seem to contradict the lore anyways. Lamae Bal says to "FEED and grow stronger." not "Starve and grow stronger." I would be happy if they flipped the stages so they actually make sense.

^ This.
I have always thought that the way feeding works should be reversed. As in you become more "vampiry"/stronger for feeding, not like it is now where if you don't feed you increase in stages.

If they had made it so that it was necessary to feed to be max vamp stage, that would have been an incentive to actually feed and also more immersion friendly.

To be fair, that's actually one of the more important ways that Vampires in The Elder Scrolls are different from your generic fantasy vampires.

Inherently, they're borderline feral monsters who will go kill crazy. They feed to suppress those impulses, and allow themselves to interact with society. It's not that a fully fed vampire is "weaker," it's that they're restraining themselves, and suppressing their nature more effectively. Why that suppression locks out abilities like their charm power, I couldn't tell you. But, conceptually, it's not about them becoming stronger when they're unfed.

From a gameplay standpoint, the concept is a little different. In Morrowind (and I'm told in Daggerfall) vampires were borderline unplayable. Insanely powerful killcrazy monsters, but you couldn't participate in the main game. Oblivion's change to feeding stages meant that there was a range for characters between unplayable monster who can only hunt and kill and a more "civilized," conventional vampire, who hides in civilization passing themselves off as a member of mortal society.

Skyrim then started messing with things by adding an entirely new form of vampires to the setting. Vampire Lords are an entirely different kind of Molag Balness, and follow a different set of rules from normal vampires. This is somewhat confused because they are also vampires. But the Vampire Lord itself is an entirely different monster created by the same Daedric Prince.

EDIT: As an aside, I'm inclined to call the Vampire Lords a failed experiment by Molag Bal. Given how rare they are, it's apparent he didn't feel the need to make more after the initial batch. This could be, because they're powerful enough to actually threaten him, or because the post-first generation replication rate is far to unreliable.

Well, it is mentioned that daughters of coldharbor were created on bal's summoning day, offering him females, those that survived became daughters of coldharbor vampire lords. This is if the dialog with harkon, serana, and valerica can be trusted, this was something that happened regularly back before the 1st era.

Furthermore, speaking with Harkon he will talk of feeding to resist the sun like 'the baser vampires do' The truth of the matter is, the vestige is far far far from a baser vampire, having to be turned by ritual by the first vampire herself, lamae bal.

So you see, even before recorded tamrielic history, before the 1st age, at least 2 vampire bloodlines functioned this way, add in the cyrodiilic clans, and the vampire 'genepool' is littered with vampires who function this way.

perhaps the bloodlines of morrowind and daggerfall games did not, as its clear they could not blend with civilized society,

What is clear however, is that the bloodline that the vestige can obtain, can indeed mix with society, and it has been since launch.

I prefer the way things are now, with the give and take system as it currently is and will be after DB. The lore supports it, alot of players who know the lore support it. I will always support it.

If you wish to have a starve timer, do not expect ZOS to do it for you, get a clock and set a alarm.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

NovaMarx wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

The vampire passives seem to contradict the lore anyways. Lamae Bal says to "FEED and grow stronger." not "Starve and grow stronger." I would be happy if they flipped the stages so they actually make sense.

^ This.
I have always thought that the way feeding works should be reversed. As in you become more "vampiry"/stronger for feeding, not like it is now where if you don't feed you increase in stages.

If they had made it so that it was necessary to feed to be max vamp stage, that would have been an incentive to actually feed and also more immersion friendly.

To be fair, that's actually one of the more important ways that Vampires in The Elder Scrolls are different from your generic fantasy vampires.

Inherently, they're borderline feral monsters who will go kill crazy. They feed to suppress those impulses, and allow themselves to interact with society. It's not that a fully fed vampire is "weaker," it's that they're restraining themselves, and suppressing their nature more effectively. Why that suppression locks out abilities like their charm power, I couldn't tell you. But, conceptually, it's not about them becoming stronger when they're unfed.

From a gameplay standpoint, the concept is a little different. In Morrowind (and I'm told in Daggerfall) vampires were borderline unplayable. Insanely powerful killcrazy monsters, but you couldn't participate in the main game. Oblivion's change to feeding stages meant that there was a range for characters between unplayable monster who can only hunt and kill and a more "civilized," conventional vampire, who hides in civilization passing themselves off as a member of mortal society.

Skyrim then started messing with things by adding an entirely new form of vampires to the setting. Vampire Lords are an entirely different kind of Molag Balness, and follow a different set of rules from normal vampires. This is somewhat confused because they are also vampires. But the Vampire Lord itself is an entirely different monster created by the same Daedric Prince.

EDIT: As an aside, I'm inclined to call the Vampire Lords a failed experiment by Molag Bal. Given how rare they are, it's apparent he didn't feel the need to make more after the initial batch. This could be, because they're powerful enough to actually threaten him, or because the post-first generation replication rate is far to unreliable.

Well, it is mentioned that daughters of coldharbor were created on bal's summoning day, offering him females, those that survived became daughters of coldharbor vampire lords. This is if the dialog with harkon, serana, and valerica can be trusted, this was something that happened regularly back before the 1st era.

Furthermore, speaking with Harkon he will talk of feeding to resist the sun like 'the baser vampires do' The truth of the matter is, the vestige is far far far from a baser vampire, having to be turned by ritual by the first vampire herself, lamae bal.

So you see, even before recorded tamrielic history, before the 1st age, at least 2 vampire bloodlines functioned this way, add in the cyrodiilic clans, and the vampire 'genepool' is littered with vampires who function this way.

perhaps the bloodlines of morrowind and daggerfall games did not, as its clear they could not blend with civilized society,

What is clear however, is that the bloodline that the vestige can obtain, can indeed mix with society, and it has been since launch.

I prefer the way things are now, with the give and take system as it currently is and will be after DB. The lore supports it, alot of players who know the lore support it. I will always support it.

If you wish to have a starve timer, do not expect ZOS to do it for you, get a clock and set a alarm.

To correct you those who survived became pure blooded vampires not vampire lords, that is something entirely different that Harkon and his family gained from his sacrifice of 1000 souls to the Daedric Prince, He wouldn't of done such a thing for ordinary vampirism let me tell you.

"Furthermore, speaking with Harkon he will talk of feeding to resist the sun like 'the baser vampires do' The truth of the matter is, the vestige is far far far from a baser vampire, having to be turned by ritual by the first vampire herself, lamae bal."

Yet Lord Harkon would still consider the Vestige a thinblood and would most likely consider Lamae as being nothing more then Peasant Filth.

And I quote...."You contracted a disease perhaps? BUT YOU ARE NO TRUE VAMPIRE accept my blood and you will learn the difference"

Harkon is a Vampire Lord and Vampire Lords seem to function the more traditional way, maybe we get stronger as we starve because we are as Harkon puts it...Not True Vampires and instead just mere mortals with symptoms of true vampirism, maybe what Harkon and his family are, perhaps they are the only actual "True Vampires" in the series.

starkerealm

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Well, it is mentioned that daughters of coldharbor were created on bal's summoning day, offering him females, those that survived became daughters of coldharbor vampire lords. This is if the dialog with harkon, serana, and valerica can be trusted, this was something that happened regularly back before the 1st era.

Furthermore, speaking with Harkon he will talk of feeding to resist the sun like 'the baser vampires do' The truth of the matter is, the vestige is far far far from a baser vampire, having to be turned by ritual by the first vampire herself, lamae bal.

So you see, even before recorded tamrielic history, before the 1st age, at least 2 vampire bloodlines functioned this way, add in the cyrodiilic clans, and the vampire 'genepool' is littered with vampires who function this way.

Honestly, Dawnguard's dialog creates all sorts of timeline issues.

Prior to Dawnguard, the first vampire was Lamae, who was turned in the late First Era. (The specific date is sometime in the 28th century.) But, what we get from Harkon starts scrambling everything.

First, we don't have a concrete date for Harkon. But we've got some interesting details. Serana is surprised that Cyrodiil is the center of an Empire in her first dialog interaction. That puts her entombment before Alessia's uprising in the Third century of the First Era.

It also suggests they post date Lamae, because Serana is familiar with the term vampire. It's possible it's a technically correct term from Molag Bal personally, but given there are also alternate names for the various strains, it's far more likely the name is idiomatic. Which isn't possible if Serana was in her coffin before Lamae was first turned.

There's also a racial issue. Lamae was one of the last living Nedes. If you're unfamiliar with the term, they're the shared ancestor of the Nords and Bretons. While the Nedes existed into the late first era, and didn't simply replace the Nords, both races did exist simultaneously for a time, with the Nedes dying out in the late First Era. But, Harkon and his family are Nords. (It's also worth pointing out that a lot of books conflate the Nedes with Nords, though not the other way around.)

To take Harkon at face value, this requires that he kept his vampiric nature very tightly concealed... which isn't consistent with his personality.

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

perhaps the bloodlines of morrowind and daggerfall games did not, as its clear they could not blend with civilized society,

What is clear however, is that the bloodline that the vestige can obtain, can indeed mix with society, and it has been since launch.

I'm inclined to chalk this up to gameplay mechanics evolving from Morrowind to Oblivion, rather than a specific lore element.

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

I prefer the way things are now, with the give and take system as it currently is and will be after DB. The lore supports it, alot of players who know the lore support it. I will always support it.

If you wish to have a starve timer, do not expect ZOS to do it for you, get a clock and set a alarm.

I really don't. For one thing a starvation timer would just make the game more annoying, it wouldn't actually add anything to the experience.

Chrlynsch

I would love to see Vampire lords in the game! You level your character up to V16, find a random spawning npc quest giver, complete a 200 hour fetch quest, apon completing the quest you do the ritual, you have a 1% chance of surviving the ritual, if you fail your character is perma dead. This is the only way I would want to see a vampire lord in the game

Van_0S

I guess we are all spoiled by bloodborne!! ( A vampire game)

Memnock

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

My vampire in the mean time has not fed in 5 levels, and I'm lvl 46.
Nothing, not the slightest drawback, save for some MINOR (yes, MINOR) annoyances.

I am requesting seizures.
The worst a feeding deprivation lasts, or the more hungry the Vampire becomes, the worst the seizures get, up to DEATH!
Which is a BLOODY logical situation, even for a Vampire.
He would simply drop dead, no matter where he is or what he's doing.

The Werewolf is sodding annoying to play, needing to eat more than he can actually do something, well, balance it out.
Add to the WW timer, like 1 to 2 minutes before end transmutation, and give us Vampires something to think about, before starving ourselves TO DEATH!
Vampire is just too simple to be.

Thoughts?
Keep it decent please.

You know what ? I was going to say that due to this being an MMO , the lore aspect of the game has to be bent a bit for the game mechanics , since certain constraints that in an MMO are forced upon you , like the day/night cycle being able to be skiped by waiting inside , but you know what ? I think i found the middle ground.

The blood potions from Skyrim. Those little suckers would be a great source of vampiric stage resets when you were in a spot where you needed to reduce you vampirism hunger but there were no humanoid targets , like for instance if you spend too much time in dwemer ruins like i did. They were made with cooking , instead of alchemy and we have that profession in the game , so the devs could add that recipe in the cooking pool and you would get you vampire death if not feed , but at the same time , avoid weird stuff like needlessly kicking the bucket in a dungeon run.

Then again , i have to agree with the rest of the people that already chimed in to your thread and say , this would not make for a great change to the skill line, simply due to the greater inconveniance it would place on players along with the fact that , as was already pointed out , this is an online game , where you can't skip day/night cycles , like you can in a single player game and due to game mechanics and the nature of the game played , it can't put the same constraints on players as it could it if was a single player game.

lathbury

We do have they are called crematorial guard and they live in vma they will be a nightmare at stage 4 vampirism

starkerealm

Van_0S wrote: »

I guess we are all spoiled by bloodborne!! ( A vampire game)

._.

So you're looking for paleblood, you say?

MrJKurayami

I think reversing the effects for stages would prompt everyone to feed more. If a vampire has freshly fed they should be at their most powerful and most vampy. The less they feed the weaker they need to be come, and the less power they need to have. If you want to play a vampire, it's easy to feed, sneak behind any npc or pvp target, even in dungeons, and activate it. Or if in a pinch you could drink some double bloody maras. Giving them more purpose too. You should look more " alive" with the more life essence they drink from blood. Maybe even mythic gothic pretty when full fed. Then get hungry and hagrid. Maybe even sun light damage when in open air at stage 4. Not a lot, but a dot to make you consider hunting something, maybe a dot that get stronger every 5 minutes you're in sunlight.

ZOS_DaryaK

We've closed this discussion as necromancy is only permitted within the game... by Daedric princes.