Is there a lack of progression guilds?

Cuyler

I attribute this phenomena to "key board warriors" and flat out illegitimate claims. It's the only thing I can derive from what I see here daily.

"Loud squeaky wheels" come to the forums to complain about not finding a group, or failing at ICP after putting in next to no effort at all. They champion themselves as, "putting in the time" or "tried real hard" or whatever really they want to say to warrant why the effort they put in deserves to be considered worthy of a hand out.

Well, I call BS. I just assume now that these people flat out are lying just to make the game easier for them, when the reality I see in-game actually talking with people is that not many people actually want to.... or try to get better. More clearly, they want to do the harder content, but don't want to do what it takes to be on a level to complete the harder content. They are casual and don't give a ***, they just want things to be easier flat out, but they come up with amazing stories of how they did sooooo many WGTs, or can't find a group. I mean these things aren't meant to be thrown in your lap.

Anyways, me personally....I spend a few nights a week trying to train new people. Most often, people I tried helping two months ago, won't have gotten better and will not have put in more effort. But come back claiming "no one helps me". I just sit here like....."wtf are you talking about? I explained things to you multiple times....a) you either aren't listening or b) you are listening but just aren't willing to do anything about it." To those few that have stepped up their game, much .

So lately I've adopted a kind of "take it or leave it" approach with newer players. I throw it out there and hope it sticks. If it doesn't I just tune out their Q_Q.

/endrant

P.S. - I'm certainly not going to keep "training" the same person endlessly, week-in week-out. If I feel like I've shown a new player what they need to succeed and they don't get better. I'm going to give up on teaching you. That's just they way things are. Please see below.

EDIT: all that being said my progression guild (see my sig below) does not do training runs. My casual raiding guild Banana Raiders, takes anyone who is interested in learning endgame content (NA-PC). The take-home message here is this:

You get out of the game, what you put into it. If you are legitimately trying to get better, learning the endgame, and put in the initiative to do so......we can help you do that and have guild of like minded people in the same situation.

pretzl

I run a progression guild on the EU PC megaserver.
The problem isn't the lack of guilds but rather the people who actively "search" for such a guild.
More often than not, the people I add are complete *** who expect everything on a silver platter.
I've had people who clearly are new to the game join my raids and blame their faults on other people. I have no desire to surround myself in this kind of imbecile so these people are swiftly booted out without batting an eye.

In order for there to be progression, people need to learn to adapt and take constructive criticism. If I tell you your bow/bow NB build doesn't work in end-game raiding, you don't need to tell me you're gonna kill my mother and *** my guars. It's not exactly benefiting anyone...

inb4 "but pretzl, you're the biggest *** EU"
I'm nice to people I know are inexperienced. I have no problem doing a vWGT run for 3 hours unless the group consists of people who have or are lying to me in any way or act detrimentally to the group as a whole.

Eocosa

I can only speak from my experience of Xbox NA, but I believe in console there are two major hurdles for progression type guilds.

First off is many people I found on console treat it as a single player game for the most part which is totally fine and the game caters to this a lot. However it does absolutely give the impression of plenty of people without a lot doing group based content or "not finding people to group with!". With the fixes they are making to group finder and allowing cross alliance playing I believe they are beginning to alleviate some of this issue. Admittedly this does not stop those "solo" players from queueing as every role while wearing heavy armor armed with a bow using only class skills or what not, yet every MMO has this problem so there is not much one can do to actively prevent this when you pug.

The second, and I would honestly argue largest problem on console is the lack of text chat. I know many people feel strongly either way on this, but I sincerely think this would help with progression guilds and easing the disasters that some pugs are. There is clearly already the system for a chat bubble over a player's head on console and I use it frequently and have found for simple commands such as "kill the adds" and "focus the boss" it works fine as even those not in VC or who are adverse to its use can see what needs to be done. An addition of a chat box would allow for the quick explanation of mechanics to other players that would allow them to at least give a much better attempt at a fight instead of simply throwing yourself at it and hoping for the best again and again while VC sits empty.

I know the counter argument is to either use VC and expect everyone too or that chat boxes will not help either. I claim that while VC is probably necessary and advantageous (I won't argue that) for end game or pvp, many more "casual" players who we are discussing here simply do not like it or will not use it essentially leaving two options: try the content completely devoid of communication or go a MUCH longer period between attempts while you search for a player using VC. I believe this is why content is being nerfed so that groups who don't communicate have a better chance at muddling through.

The other counter argument to simply using VC has been beaten to death before when console was just released that there are players who can be phenomenal players who simply lack the physical ability to speak or who are deaf. Beyond this there are also those players who play in a busy family room w lots of noise all around who want to neither be a distraction to the group or are unable to reliably hear on VC.

I know if text chat was implemented I would be much MUCH more active in attempting to help train up players to what I can do, as well as make attempts at progressing further then I currently have the tools I feel would reach those players who want to learn, but with the current tools are unable/unwilling as I can totally appreciate the apprehension or people and VC.

My two septims anyways sorry for the diatribe!

hydrocynus

*** my guars!

Hahahahaha. Its just so obscure I imagine someone actually said that!

Nogawd

A large % of guilds I see are just "collectors" who don't really do much of anything to be honest.

log234

[EU] Got a guild of friends that helps new players learn the basics, more experienced players optimize their builds and becoming better team players, as well as helping a core group, more focused on end game content, try trials, DSA and of course pledges and such.

We're not a very big guild at the moment, as we try to give our members the help they need.

But if you are interested in helping out in any way, or looking for a nice guild to hang out with. Send me an ingame mail! (Using the same username)

Dromede

Lack of transparency when it comes to 'hiring' new guildies makes even good PVE guilds a little less useful. Half a year ago I saw a guy advertising an end-game guild. His only requirement was to have a v16 char, which I did.

That guild is awesome, and I got to make some awesome friends, we had cool trial runs, lots of successful pledge runs and so on. But as soon as I got comfortable and secure that players in general are above average, I got hit with a disastrous vet Darkshade run that was so bad I could not believe it. All the roles were present, but our combination dps and healing was not good enough, and we kept wiping. In vet DC!! Turned out, half the group didn't know mechanics, and they did not admit it because they were afraid of being kicked.

There's a couple problems with that:

1. Lack of quild application requirements and ways to check them, and rate players accordingly. Say, we have a new player and an experienced player (within guild) - they look exactly the same in guild chat. Unless you recognize nicknames, you have no idea if it's a new recruit or an experienced player. There are guild rankings, but not every guild bothers with them, and they are not updated accordingly as the new achievements are earned.
2. Ethics flaws on player behalf - some refuse to admit that they are new, and some refuse to take an extra half-hour to teach. Both have legit reasons to do what they do, but all of it makes it more difficult to coexist and play together. Also, refusal of players to be on Team speak even as ears only (no mic) is blowing my mind(
3. Zero incentive to make guild-only trial runs (i'm talking about trial leaderboards mostly). Alao, unless players are wearing Guild Tabards, there's no visual association with guild (Nameplates on PTS reference).

lathbury

awesome posts from varying ends of the scale of people who want to teach. still very quiet on the people who wanna learn front but early days

clayandaudrey_ESO

For there to be true progression guilds wouldn't you need true progression in game?

Thelon

My guild is good but the GM is a scrub

Schemering

someone made a post searching for guild to learn unfortunately for me its wrong server and wrong platform but if anyone is on ps4 NA it would be great if an inv wil be sent to this guy/girl

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/263050/na-ps4-player-looking-for-people-who-like-to-run-dungeons#latest

failkiwib16_ESO

..well the dear salty salty guardian of the virtue of guars: @pretzl is a prime example for this, in his guild adverticement thread he accepts a lowbie veteran tank who shows interest.



I don't do trials, and I currently don't play much either, but I still join or help out lowbies and inexperienced players. In case they show interest then I invite them to either my own or my friends guild - depending on what will serve them the best.

The only problem is when some players ask 2346754322667 questions, then go and do the exact opposite of what was adviced.. fail, wonder why it doesn't work out for them, ask again - only this time when we explain why, they get defensive and blame: class, champion points, elitism, addons, macros etc..

It really leaves a bad feeling, when me and my guild spend time and resources and get everything thrown back at our faces. Lucky the majority of players are not like this, otherwise it would be too big of a demotivator to continue.

LadyNalcarya

@Xundiin wrote: »

See I want to learn to get better in both PVE and PVP. But it's hard to find people that actually want to teach and are good at teaching. Not many so called teachers have the patience to actually teach. Now I'm no slouch when it comes to picking up and learning to play games, so I normally pick it up faster than others. Overall though I would call myself an above average player, but not a super star.

Also, I like to teach people what I know and have learned, but I withhold any helpful advice, unless they seek me out since more times than not they snap their teeth at you. The only thing you've accomplished is either to make a run uncomfortable and less enjoying or end up on someones ignore list. Not that the later has ever bothered me, but it's kind of dumb to ignore someone for trying to offer some friendly advice.

Many players from the top raiding guilds are helping new players with advices and build guides.
You can also find a group of likeminded players and attempt to conquer the content without any teachers - that's what my dsa group did.
We started as noobs at dsa and had to figure out the tactics on our own. Now we're one of the best dsa teams, so this approach actually works.

Ra'Shtar

It's quite hard to get 12 like minded individuals to raid at the same day and time especially if they are from east coast and some are from west coast.

LadyNalcarya

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

It's quite hard to get 12 like minded individuals to raid at the same day and time especially if they are from east coast and some are from west coast.

But many people are already in social/dungeon delving guilds, so why not to try to organize something in a guild that is not exclusively dedicated to raiding?
I mean, strategies and builds are already available, and having an experienced raid leader is great, but its not by any means nessesary.
P.S. From my experience on EU server, there's many social guilds that do casual runs for players of any experience and vet levels. I participate those runs sometimes as a tank or dd. But some people just dont wanna start with these groups, they want to start with full group of experienced people... Then there's a problem with expectations etc.

Polysemy

Correect me if im wrong but, there is one real progression guild on the NA server right now

...Maybe 2... maybe but that depends on your definition

Community has been dead for awhile so not really a suprise

EU and Console have a much easier time because there pops are so much larger

swirve

You can find progression guilds if you are prepared to look and are not an *** all the time...you can be *** some of the time with some guilds...

Ra'Shtar

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

It's quite hard to get 12 like minded individuals to raid at the same day and time especially if they are from east coast and some are from west coast.

But many people are already in social/dungeon delving guilds, so why not to try to organize something in a guild that is not exclusively dedicated to raiding?
I mean, strategies and builds are already available, and having an experienced raid leader is great, but its not by any means nessesary.
P.S. From my experience on EU server, there's many social guilds that do casual runs for players of any experience and vet levels. I participate those runs sometimes as a tank or dd. But some people just dont wanna start with these groups, they want to start with full group of experienced people... Then there's a problem with expectations etc.

Not to be rude but i hate casual runs.

LadyNalcarya

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

It's quite hard to get 12 like minded individuals to raid at the same day and time especially if they are from east coast and some are from west coast.

But many people are already in social/dungeon delving guilds, so why not to try to organize something in a guild that is not exclusively dedicated to raiding?
I mean, strategies and builds are already available, and having an experienced raid leader is great, but its not by any means nessesary.
P.S. From my experience on EU server, there's many social guilds that do casual runs for players of any experience and vet levels. I participate those runs sometimes as a tank or dd. But some people just dont wanna start with these groups, they want to start with full group of experienced people... Then there's a problem with expectations etc.

Not to be rude but i hate casual runs.

Umm no offense but then there's a problem.
Everyone needs to start somewhere. And who knows, maybe some guidies would want to start something more serious when they're familiar with trial mechanics, and start getting leaderboard scores? Or maybe when you're more experienced with these trials and your build, you can apply for more leaderboard-oriented guild... There's a lot of options.
And dont be so judgemental. Many really good players are members of social guilds so it might be a great opportunity.
Also... If you think that progression group is when you're invited in a perfect group and just get all the scores effortlessly, you're wrong. There still will be wipes, disconnects and all kinds of random stuff.

Ra'Shtar

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

It's quite hard to get 12 like minded individuals to raid at the same day and time especially if they are from east coast and some are from west coast.

But many people are already in social/dungeon delving guilds, so why not to try to organize something in a guild that is not exclusively dedicated to raiding?
I mean, strategies and builds are already available, and having an experienced raid leader is great, but its not by any means nessesary.
P.S. From my experience on EU server, there's many social guilds that do casual runs for players of any experience and vet levels. I participate those runs sometimes as a tank or dd. But some people just dont wanna start with these groups, they want to start with full group of experienced people... Then there's a problem with expectations etc.

Not to be rude but i hate casual runs.

Umm no offense but then there's a problem.
Everyone needs to start somewhere. And who knows, maybe some guidies would want to start something more serious when they're familiar with trial mechanics, and start getting leaderboard scores? Or maybe when you're more experienced with these trials and your build, you can apply for more leaderboard-oriented guild... There's a lot of options.
And dont be so judgemental. Many really good players are members of social guilds so it might be a great opportunity.
Also... If you think that progression group is when you're invited in a perfect group and just get all the scores effortlessly, you're wrong. There still will be wipes, disconnects and all kinds of random stuff.

I'm already in dedicated guilds the issue is that every trial players change i don't like that i like doing the same with the same people.

LadyNalcarya

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

It's quite hard to get 12 like minded individuals to raid at the same day and time especially if they are from east coast and some are from west coast.

But many people are already in social/dungeon delving guilds, so why not to try to organize something in a guild that is not exclusively dedicated to raiding?
I mean, strategies and builds are already available, and having an experienced raid leader is great, but its not by any means nessesary.
P.S. From my experience on EU server, there's many social guilds that do casual runs for players of any experience and vet levels. I participate those runs sometimes as a tank or dd. But some people just dont wanna start with these groups, they want to start with full group of experienced people... Then there's a problem with expectations etc.

Not to be rude but i hate casual runs.

Umm no offense but then there's a problem.
Everyone needs to start somewhere. And who knows, maybe some guidies would want to start something more serious when they're familiar with trial mechanics, and start getting leaderboard scores? Or maybe when you're more experienced with these trials and your build, you can apply for more leaderboard-oriented guild... There's a lot of options.
And dont be so judgemental. Many really good players are members of social guilds so it might be a great opportunity.
Also... If you think that progression group is when you're invited in a perfect group and just get all the scores effortlessly, you're wrong. There still will be wipes, disconnects and all kinds of random stuff.

I'm already in dedicated guilds the issue is that every trial players change i don't like that i like doing the same with the same people.

Well, as far as I know, many guilds on EU are attempting vMoL now.
Why not to try to organize a vMoL progression group inside your guild? There are videos of bossfights and other info... Just decide which day and time would be optimal for the group members and try. You can say there's timezone issues, but we EU players have the same.
You see, you cant just wait for someone to arrive and organize that for you. You can either try to find people to raid with or apply to high-ranked guild...

Deadfinger6

I only didn't answer because I get grumpy when people have the same ID picture.

lathbury

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

I only didn't answer because I get grumpy when people have the same ID picture.

dont copy my pic then

Deadfinger6

lathbury wrote: »

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

I only didn't answer because I get grumpy when people have the same ID picture.

dont copy my pic then

Dammit - you beat me by a year of joining. *slices stomach open and leaps from window* "TAMRIEL BELONGS TO THE ......*splat*