Is there a lack of progression guilds?

lathbury

With the upcoming changes to VCOA,VWGT and VICP sparking heated forums debate (this is not the thread for that) . I have noted some folk saying they cant get a group others saying they are really difficult etc. I have also noticed that there were a few people who are able to do this content saying they regularly pug to help those who can not.
This begs the question are there enough progression guild aimed at helping players become more proffecient in their class, roles and group play?
The evidence seems to suggest there is not what are your thoughts?
If it is the case there is not enough as one of those players able to do the content and GM of a guild. I would say to any players (PC/EU) who either want to learn or help teach get in touch or post Links to your guild add/site.
I feel its better to raise the skill level of the community as a whole then constantly lower the bar this way everyone gets to see content and have a challenge.

UltimaJoe777

While it is both honorable and respectable for a Guild to truly be a brotherhood the fact of the matter is guilds in this game have no true incentive. All they really impact in this game is making it easier for the player market to sell their wares. What if guilds made for PvE or PvP groups actually provided a small bonus? For example extra XP or AP for guild outings aka groups that consist of only guildies. Maybe then non-trader guilds would get more members/use/incentive to be joined.

Guilds that are not made to be trading guilds and actually thrive have my applause.

lathbury

see @hydrocynus this is what happens when I'm constructive

Kathrein

ops nobody answered, that is sad

lathbury

Kathrein wrote: »

ops nobody answered, that is sad

nevermind it does make me wonder when I see comments like elitist jerks never inv or offer help etc though

dday3six

Some of that could be blamed on the game too. ESO is rather void off tutorials. Having basic primers on classes, stats, roles, animation canceling, and so on would go along way.

Kathrein

Not that i'm a pro or anything but i like to help people if i can, taking them to do achievment, new dung and such.
Sometimes tho you can't help them, cause even if they are a dk stamina using mag det (yes it happend) they don't want to hear that doesn't work

lathbury

Kathrein wrote: »

Not that i'm a pro or anything but i like to help people if i can, taking them to do achievment, new dung and such.
Sometimes tho you can't help them, cause even if they are a dk stamina using mag det (yes it happend) they don't want to hear that doesn't work

yeah this more aimed at those who are interested in improving and seeing challenging content etc. those guys best you can do is wish them well

hydrocynus

Ah yes. I am still looking for the Troll angle but in this case @lathbury I believe your intentions are genuine.

I think it's a tough nut to crack and I don't think it's a lack of guilds with good players but rather a lack of guilds with players willing to take the time to help improve players who want to improve. That is the other side of it. You need a player base willing to actively look for those guilds that will take the time to help them too and then you will have a nice fit. The guild needs to be able to have time for experienced raids and training raids to ensure a level of knowledge transfer.

It's a difficult thing to grow a guild from practically nothing as well and keep players that want to do top content. People are fickle by nature so I think it doesn't take much to have them leave for potentially greener pastures.

lathbury

hydrocynus wrote: »

Ah yes. I am still looking for the Troll angle but in this case @lathbury I believe your intentions are genuine.

I think it's a tough nut to crack and I don't think it's a lack of guilds with good players but rather a lack of guilds with players willing to take the time to help improve players who want to improve. That is the other side of it. You need a player base willing to actively look for those guilds that will take the time to help them too and then you will have a nice fit. The guild needs to be able to have time for experienced raids and training raids to ensure a level of knowledge transfer.

It's a difficult thing to grow a guild from practically nothing as well and keep players that want to do top content. People are fickle by nature so I think it doesn't take much to have them leave for potentially greener pastures.

yeah well me you and maro have taught new people thats all you need in a progression guild people like us joining and people who wanna learn if they stay they teach other new folk its actually how my guild started and got up to raids etc. it seems though there is a shortage not of people willing to teach but those who want to learn.

hydrocynus

lathbury wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Ah yes. I am still looking for the Troll angle but in this case @lathbury I believe your intentions are genuine.

I think it's a tough nut to crack and I don't think it's a lack of guilds with good players but rather a lack of guilds with players willing to take the time to help improve players who want to improve. That is the other side of it. You need a player base willing to actively look for those guilds that will take the time to help them too and then you will have a nice fit. The guild needs to be able to have time for experienced raids and training raids to ensure a level of knowledge transfer.

It's a difficult thing to grow a guild from practically nothing as well and keep players that want to do top content. People are fickle by nature so I think it doesn't take much to have them leave for potentially greener pastures.

yeah well me you and maro have taught new people thats all you need in a progression guild people like us joining and people who wanna learn if they stay they teach other new folk its actually how my guild started and got up to raids etc. it seems though there is a shortage not of people willing to teach but those who want to learn.

Yes 100% agree.

rob_ber

Ah, people are just afraid of you @lathbury & @hydrocynus , you are too elite :P

lathbury

thats my point though none of us are. what we and other groups do can be taught.

rob_ber

lathbury wrote: »

thats my point though none of us are. what we and other groups do can be taught.

Exactly, I was just being sarcastic I know you guys too well, to be seriously thinking that.

But lemme tell you experience from my other guild. The idea when we started guild was to be some kind of end game/raid/progression guild. But for most people "end game/progression guild" means doing 4-man dungeons over and over again. So I gave up. I rather do stupid things with you guys and maybe learn something while doing it.

jzholloway

From my experience (PS4 NA) there are two types of PvE guilds:

1) Guilds that know what they are doing, compete for leader boards or run trials/dungeons to farm

2) Guilds that don't know what they are doing, run trials/dungeons to attempt completions

There doesn't seem to be an in between - Though I'm sure there are.

I agree with @hydrocynus - competition guilds don't want to spend the time teaching, and a lot of people who have beat certain trials a certain way don't think they need to improve or get better. Catch 22. Its fun running with competition guilds, until you have to prove yourself with tests, etc. It can be fun running with guilds that don't have a clue (or are stuck on a mechanic that isn't working for them - or use players who really shouldn't be there yet) until you wipe 100 times.

An progression guild would be wonderful - but to truly have a successful one the really good players involved need to be willing to split up and take "noobs" in and teach the mechanics and not just worry about the completion. Its slow and arduous, and not a lot of people - from what I've found, really want to do it.

Valrien

lathbury wrote: »

thats my point though none of us are. what we and other groups do can be taught.

I'll play the way I want to play without any help from you, you elitist ***!

There are progression guilds for those willing to look. Many people just refuse any help they are offered. Incidentally these are the ones that complain the most when they can't complete anything.

(Lol, apparently autocorrect makes *** into bast are)

lathbury

jzholloway wrote: »

From my experience (PS4 NA) there are two types of PvE guilds:

1) Guilds that know what they are doing, compete for leader boards or run trials/dungeons to farm

2) Guilds that don't know what they are doing, run trials/dungeons to attempt completions

There doesn't seem to be an in between - Though I'm sure there are.

I agree with @hydrocynus - competition guilds don't want to spend the time teaching, and a lot of people who have beat certain trials a certain way don't think they need to improve or get better. Catch 22. Its fun running with competition guilds, until you have to prove yourself with tests, etc. It can be fun running with guilds that don't have a clue (or are stuck on a mechanic that isn't working for them - or use players who really shouldn't be there yet) until you wipe 100 times.

An progression guild would be wonderful - but to truly have a successful one the really good players involved need to be willing to split up and take "noobs" in and teach the mechanics and not just worry about the completion. Its slow and arduous, and not a lot of people - from what I've found, really want to do it.

that's an issue but there are 3 people in this thread who i know dont mind teaching people things including myself. yet not one asking to be taught that's quite telling.
after looking at this and the nerf threads its actually quite depressing people would rather have the bar lowered than have a challenge.

lathbury

Valrien wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

thats my point though none of us are. what we and other groups do can be taught.

I'll play the way I want to play without any help from you, you elitist ***!

There are progression guilds for those willing to look. Many people just refuse any help they are offered. Incidentally these are the ones that complain the most when they can't complete anything.

(Lol, apparently autocorrect makes *** into bast are)

to true but why then do they resort to saying help isnt there. I could link posts but I'm sure you've seen them where the elitists are blamed for not coaching them when .These guilds exist and why arent we calling people on it.
Was kinda of hoping for a list of progression guilds to end up on this thread so that next time that tired line is used I could copy paste

jzholloway

lathbury wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

From my experience (PS4 NA) there are two types of PvE guilds:

1) Guilds that know what they are doing, compete for leader boards or run trials/dungeons to farm

2) Guilds that don't know what they are doing, run trials/dungeons to attempt completions

There doesn't seem to be an in between - Though I'm sure there are.

I agree with @hydrocynus - competition guilds don't want to spend the time teaching, and a lot of people who have beat certain trials a certain way don't think they need to improve or get better. Catch 22. Its fun running with competition guilds, until you have to prove yourself with tests, etc. It can be fun running with guilds that don't have a clue (or are stuck on a mechanic that isn't working for them - or use players who really shouldn't be there yet) until you wipe 100 times.

An progression guild would be wonderful - but to truly have a successful one the really good players involved need to be willing to split up and take "noobs" in and teach the mechanics and not just worry about the completion. Its slow and arduous, and not a lot of people - from what I've found, really want to do it.

that's an issue but there are 3 people in this thread who i know dont mind teaching people things including myself. yet not one asking to be taught that's quite telling.
after looking at this and the nerf threads its actually quite depressing people would rather have the bar lowered than have a challenge.

I know there are people out there who are willing to teach - i'm one of them on the things that I do know. I also know there are people out there who are willing to be taught, again, I am one of them on the things I do not know.

From a personal stand point, I don't mind someone telling me I'm doing something wrong - or that there is a better way. That's me of course. Up until last week, I hadn't found a guild willing to even run trials (partly my fault), i found one that some people were nice, but other were not (once you asked How do I do this?!?!), I found another where everyone is nice, but mechanically are in the same boat as me and my friends (can easily complete 90% of things, but there is 10% that its not even close). Good news, that guild is growing, bad news, that guild is growing (if you can catch the drift)

The "elite" guilds grow by recruiting elite players - obviously, at least on PS4 NA, that is where they want to go. The, lets call them "progressive" guilds, grow by recruiting players who have never had the opportunity to run something. The only problem with that is that eventually, everyone is is the same boat. Again, it isn't necessarily bad, but watching youtube videos isn't the same as having someone in game telling everyone what to do, especially if they are able to dissect what is going wrong, etc.

Of course, like you said, it brings us to the third problem.. what if an "elite" player willingly joins a "progressive" guild to simply help and teach - would the current members actually even listen?

I don't know - there is no simple solution or answer, though it can be frustrating to no end.

shadelon

jzholloway wrote: »

From my experience (PS4 NA) there are two types of PvE guilds:

1) Guilds that know what they are doing, compete for leader boards or run trials/dungeons to farm

2) Guilds that don't know what they are doing, run trials/dungeons to attempt completions

There doesn't seem to be an in between - Though I'm sure there are.

I agree with @hydrocynus - competition guilds don't want to spend the time teaching, and a lot of people who have beat certain trials a certain way don't think they need to improve or get better. Catch 22. Its fun running with competition guilds, until you have to prove yourself with tests, etc. It can be fun running with guilds that don't have a clue (or are stuck on a mechanic that isn't working for them - or use players who really shouldn't be there yet) until you wipe 100 times.

An progression guild would be wonderful - but to truly have a successful one the really good players involved need to be willing to split up and take "noobs" in and teach the mechanics and not just worry about the completion. Its slow and arduous, and not a lot of people - from what I've found, really want to do it.

I would like to note that, on ps4 na, my guild, the League of Assassins is such a progression guild which is willing to teach noobs the mechanics.

May be hard to find but not impossible. If anyone on ps4 na is searching for something like this, please pm myself, Shadelon, or Shepheardoffire.

lathbury

jzholloway wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

From my experience (PS4 NA) there are two types of PvE guilds:

1) Guilds that know what they are doing, compete for leader boards or run trials/dungeons to farm

2) Guilds that don't know what they are doing, run trials/dungeons to attempt completions

There doesn't seem to be an in between - Though I'm sure there are.

I agree with @hydrocynus - competition guilds don't want to spend the time teaching, and a lot of people who have beat certain trials a certain way don't think they need to improve or get better. Catch 22. Its fun running with competition guilds, until you have to prove yourself with tests, etc. It can be fun running with guilds that don't have a clue (or are stuck on a mechanic that isn't working for them - or use players who really shouldn't be there yet) until you wipe 100 times.

An progression guild would be wonderful - but to truly have a successful one the really good players involved need to be willing to split up and take "noobs" in and teach the mechanics and not just worry about the completion. Its slow and arduous, and not a lot of people - from what I've found, really want to do it.

that's an issue but there are 3 people in this thread who i know dont mind teaching people things including myself. yet not one asking to be taught that's quite telling.
after looking at this and the nerf threads its actually quite depressing people would rather have the bar lowered than have a challenge.

I know there are people out there who are willing to teach - i'm one of them on the things that I do know. I also know there are people out there who are willing to be taught, again, I am one of them on the things I do not know.

From a personal stand point, I don't mind someone telling me I'm doing something wrong - or that there is a better way. That's me of course. Up until last week, I hadn't found a guild willing to even run trials (partly my fault), i found one that some people were nice, but other were not (once you asked How do I do this?!?!), I found another where everyone is nice, but mechanically are in the same boat as me and my friends (can easily complete 90% of things, but there is 10% that its not even close). Good news, that guild is growing, bad news, that guild is growing (if you can catch the drift)

The "elite" guilds grow by recruiting elite players - obviously, at least on PS4 NA, that is where they want to go. The, lets call them "progressive" guilds, grow by recruiting players who have never had the opportunity to run something. The only problem with that is that eventually, everyone is is the same boat. Again, it isn't necessarily bad, but watching youtube videos isn't the same as having someone in game telling everyone what to do, especially if they are able to dissect what is going wrong, etc.

Of course, like you said, it brings us to the third problem.. what if an "elite" player willingly joins a "progressive" guild to simply help and teach - would the current members actually even listen?

I don't know - there is no simple solution or answer, though it can be frustrating to no end.

shame your not on pc eu me @hydrocynus and @robertberanek have done all bar no death vma and vmol and those we are working on. we will happily help anyone willing to learn and there are other guilds out there hodor being a notable one a few of those were in a pug trial of vmol the other day offering there help.

jzholloway

lathbury wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

From my experience (PS4 NA) there are two types of PvE guilds:

1) Guilds that know what they are doing, compete for leader boards or run trials/dungeons to farm

2) Guilds that don't know what they are doing, run trials/dungeons to attempt completions

There doesn't seem to be an in between - Though I'm sure there are.

I agree with @hydrocynus - competition guilds don't want to spend the time teaching, and a lot of people who have beat certain trials a certain way don't think they need to improve or get better. Catch 22. Its fun running with competition guilds, until you have to prove yourself with tests, etc. It can be fun running with guilds that don't have a clue (or are stuck on a mechanic that isn't working for them - or use players who really shouldn't be there yet) until you wipe 100 times.

An progression guild would be wonderful - but to truly have a successful one the really good players involved need to be willing to split up and take "noobs" in and teach the mechanics and not just worry about the completion. Its slow and arduous, and not a lot of people - from what I've found, really want to do it.

that's an issue but there are 3 people in this thread who i know dont mind teaching people things including myself. yet not one asking to be taught that's quite telling.
after looking at this and the nerf threads its actually quite depressing people would rather have the bar lowered than have a challenge.

I know there are people out there who are willing to teach - i'm one of them on the things that I do know. I also know there are people out there who are willing to be taught, again, I am one of them on the things I do not know.

From a personal stand point, I don't mind someone telling me I'm doing something wrong - or that there is a better way. That's me of course. Up until last week, I hadn't found a guild willing to even run trials (partly my fault), i found one that some people were nice, but other were not (once you asked How do I do this?!?!), I found another where everyone is nice, but mechanically are in the same boat as me and my friends (can easily complete 90% of things, but there is 10% that its not even close). Good news, that guild is growing, bad news, that guild is growing (if you can catch the drift)

The "elite" guilds grow by recruiting elite players - obviously, at least on PS4 NA, that is where they want to go. The, lets call them "progressive" guilds, grow by recruiting players who have never had the opportunity to run something. The only problem with that is that eventually, everyone is is the same boat. Again, it isn't necessarily bad, but watching youtube videos isn't the same as having someone in game telling everyone what to do, especially if they are able to dissect what is going wrong, etc.

Of course, like you said, it brings us to the third problem.. what if an "elite" player willingly joins a "progressive" guild to simply help and teach - would the current members actually even listen?

I don't know - there is no simple solution or answer, though it can be frustrating to no end.

shame your not on pc eu me @hydrocynus and @robertberanek have done all bar no death vma and vmol and those we are working on. we will happily help anyone willing to learn and there are other guilds out there hodor being a notable one a few of those were in a pug trial of vmol the other day offering there help.

Just to put this out there - I am thankful for everyone who is willing to help, regardless of skill/gear, etc. It seems most of you guys are PC EU haha. Saying that, I do know people on other platforms/servers who are the same. One thing that would be nice is if ZOS could implement some sort of guild recruitment in game - I know that would never happen, and would be way to tedious, but it would still be a nice feature.

That being said, I am very happy with the guild that I found/found me and a couple of my buddies - only ones that give us trouble as a whole is Sanctum and MoL hard mode (which hasn't been attempted yet)

hydrocynus

We are nowhere near the best players in this game. That's the point. We just can complete this stuff and happy to help others get through it cos if we can then most can and maybe we make some new friends too.l

lathbury

shadelon wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

From my experience (PS4 NA) there are two types of PvE guilds:

. If anyone on ps4 na is searching for something like this, please pm myself, Shadelon, or Shepheardoffire.

do you have a link for those looking to progress to an add on the guild forums or your own site/fb?

shadelon

lathbury wrote: »

shadelon wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

From my experience (PS4 NA) there are two types of PvE guilds:

. If anyone on ps4 na is searching for something like this, please pm myself, Shadelon, or Shepheardoffire.

do you have a link for those looking to progress to an add on the guild forums or your own site/fb?

Sure. Www.leagueofassassins-ps4.guildlaunch.com

Cously

A lot of players who had the know how to teach or form progression gropes just left. Changes hit them the harder. They are hungry for content so if that's not pumped up regularly they quit. The CP cap was a huge slap on their face, some acquired over 1200+ CP legit and now can't use it. The difficult of the dungeons are getting dumbed down so they are relegated to two dungeons. The rewards absolutely suck, I know players who ran the damn things a thousand times and never got the gear they wanted. The state ESO is in now don't have enough to get the attention of serious carebears. Vmol as a step in the right direction but even for the hardcore maniacs one trial over and over gets really dull.

Xundiin

See I want to learn to get better in both PVE and PVP. But it's hard to find people that actually want to teach and are good at teaching. Not many so called teachers have the patience to actually teach. Now I'm no slouch when it comes to picking up and learning to play games, so I normally pick it up faster than others. Overall though I would call myself an above average player, but not a super star.

Also, I like to teach people what I know and have learned, but I withhold any helpful advice, unless they seek me out since more times than not they snap their teeth at you. The only thing you've accomplished is either to make a run uncomfortable and less enjoying or end up on someones ignore list. Not that the later has ever bothered me, but it's kind of dumb to ignore someone for trying to offer some friendly advice.

lathbury

Xundiin wrote: »

See I want to learn to get better in both PVE and PVP. But it's hard to find people that actually want to teach and are good at teaching. Not many so called teachers have the patience to actually teach. Now I'm no slouch when it comes to picking up and learning to play games, so I normally pick it up faster than others. Overall though I would call myself an above average player, but not a super star.

Also, I like to teach people what I know and have learned, but I withhold any helpful advice, unless they seek me out since more times than not they snap their teeth at you. The only thing you've accomplished is either to make a run uncomfortable and less enjoying or end up on someones ignore list. Not that the later has ever bothered me, but it's kind of dumb to ignore someone for trying to offer some friendly advice.

well if your on pc eu join us or link your guild here this is the thread for that. wanna get away from the us vs them mentality and back to how the community was at launch when we were all figuring it out.

Schemering

Progression guilds are not all focused on recruiting and educating new members but a lot of social guilds are and many progression guild members are also in other guilds where theres more focus on education.

My Dutch/Belgian guild does a good job in recruiting members and educating them if needed, with dungeon evenings, bootcamps, open trialraids and pvp duel events. It ofc helps that many of its players are also in progression guilds.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/153612/eu-ad-legends-of-the-benelux-zoekt-nieuwe-leden
http://legendsofthebenelux.nl

Besides guilds i play a lot with several people on my friendslist and most of us do take lower level players into all dungeons also the few dungeons that are not easy for those new to them; we do enjoy helping them blend in the team and learn dungeon mechanics.

cyclonus11

I've noticed that smaller RP guilds tend to be more progression-friendly, at least in my experience.

lathbury

Schemering wrote: »

Progression guilds are not all focused on recruiting and educating new members but a lot of social guilds are and many progression guild members are also in other guilds where theres more focus on education.

My Dutch/Belgian guild does a good job in recruiting members and educating them if needed, with dungeon evenings, bootcamps, open trialraids and pvp duel events. It ofc helps that many of its players are also in progression guilds.

Besides guilds i play a lot with several people on my friendslist and most of us do take lower level players into all dungeons also the few dungeons that are not easy for those new to them; we do enjoy helping them blend in the team and learn dungeon mechanics.

post a link here then trying to make a thread where people who wanna learn/teach can go