Downward battle-leveling: play with more people, breath new life in old zones

tinythinker

The Need/Reason

Hello everyone, thanks for reading. I wanted to write about something I've seen popping up in some threads and chats, directly or indirectly.

- dolmens at lower levels being blown away by high level players before low levels even get a hit in
- leveling so fast that you get bored with the content
- having a friend who is too high level to adventure with because they get bored or blow everything away
- people who on PTS are realizing that they have been scaled up a lot by getting additional Champion ranks and finding the content they were on too easy
- people who will, after DB launches, realize the same thing about their main or an alt who hits level 50 and suddenly has a ton of CP to spend
- and so on

I wrote a bit about that first issue elsewhere, and I still want to see what I wrote there happen in terms of more events and such, but I was only talking about scaling the area around events in zones, not the zones. That helps with the first issue on the list above. But what about the other issues?

The How/Solution

Therefore I'd like to toss out the idea of *optional* (as in toggled by going into Settings) downward battle-leveling. It's like the upward leveling for PvP and DLC zones but in reverse.

Let's say that a zone is level 31-37, and you were over that, you would be scaled down to match. This could be a flat scaling for simplicity's sake, like being at the top of the range, or level 37.

The same can be done for champion rank zones as well. Imagine you are at champion rank 160, but in a champion rank 40 zone. Now even in such zones when veteran ranks cost more so that your progression matched the zones you were going through, you might hit the next rank before you left, so in this case you are leveled down to champion rank 50.

The Pros/Cons

The pros to this idea and method of implementation are:

- have fun doing content way under your level like hunting generals at dolmens or helping out/questing with lower level friends/guildies/strangers without being bored or annoying lower level players by being stupidly OP
- have fun and challenge and get decent xp for completing content for which you may be way over-leveled for a variety of reasons
- go through Cadwell's zones in any order and find them all challenging while still letting those zones have a scaled progression of challenge for new players
- no immersion-breaking pop-up notifications or requests asking if you wanted to be scaled down when entering a low level zone (*yay* toggle!)
- can turn it off if you need to over-level something or just like being OP in lower level zones (*yay* toggle!)
- enjoy more zones again because the repeatable quests, the delves, etc, are no longer a complete faceroll
- oh did I say repeatable quests like the ones that they offer in Wrothgar? Yeah they could add those now to base zones with this scaling to make them fun again *

The cons to this are:

Ummm...

OK, I guess I will need other people to help me see the cons.



(*this can include the "complete the delve with some mission" type quests as well as new types of quests where an event/npc spawns someplace because you picked up the quest, adding new fun and things to do in those "old zones")

EDITED to add link to new comment below

Callous2208

I don't disagree with your reasoning, but I would suggest just using the template from the new zones and scale everyone up. Maybe after the starter areas, once people have a few skills to play around with, go straight Wrothgar or Hew's Bane mode. I just don't see many people voluntarily scaling themselves down for the fun of it in these zones they've already completed. If people are hunting generals, they want to wipe that dolmen as quick as possible and move on, they're not gonna scale down and "enjoy" that low level anchor. It just is what it is. The answer for that would be forced scaling down, which GW2 did back when I played it. That system was trash in my opinion. I suppose if they could scale the monsters up to your level, that would also be a good alternative.

idk

Zos has already said they do not like leveling us lower hence manning us weaker.

Inarre

I think this is great. I want to go back and complete quests i missed in lower levels but its incredibly boring. Give us down scaling option and bonus exp if we choose to scale down to match the content

Eshelmen

It is kind of pointless and a waste of space for all of the original zones. I mean come on, who here really goes to these zones to actually do stuff any more? Besides just skimming through them looking for skyshards.

There really is no point other than that.

If you did the scaling system for all zones, it would be much more enjoyable. I would love to go and finish all the old quests if it were actually a challenge for my toon again.

tinythinker

Callous2208 wrote: »

I don't disagree with your reasoning, but I would suggest just using the template from the new zones and scale everyone up. Maybe after the starter areas, once people have a few skills to play around with, go straight Wrothgar or Hew's Bane mode.

No, I wouldn't do that for a number of reasons:

- DLC zones are set to the current max challenge level and players are scaled up to it
- having all zones other than the starter island be at max level doesn't fit the way they were made (quest pathing, mechanics, etc)
- lower level 1-50 zones have an increasing challenge so that new players can learn from failure at a predictable pace and feel more powerful as they level up within each zone
- Cadwell's zones have a similar design logic as 1-50 but for players just getting to Champion Ranks

Taking that away and having everyone just be scaled up in the base game right away adds additional problems, whereas voluntary down-scaling lets those zones function as designed/intended yet solves existing problems.

Callous2208 wrote: »

I just don't see many people voluntarily scaling themselves down for the fun of it in these zones they've already completed. If people are hunting generals, they want to wipe that dolmen as quick as possible and move on, they're not gonna scale down and "enjoy" that low level anchor

So you are speaking for all higher level players? Because you and some of your friends who think/play like you wouldn't want or use it then no one else would?

The fact is that many people play with others who are starting the game or leveling an alt, and being able to play with them even if they have a large level disparity would be a welcome option. Not everyone who goes to dolmens to hunt generals wants to burn through them and feel bad when low levels show up and get nothing. And many players have complained that they level too fast and the content gets boring. Now alts will be really strong at level 50. People on the PTS are already sad that they are too powerful for some content. I am offering a way to leave the current system intact for new players and players who progress slowly, but open things up/restore a challenge for those who want to be in older zones without being OP.

Plus as mentioned they can add new repeatable content for those who might want to revisit old zones to socialize, meet new people, etc; those folks can be running those new quests while they are doing so.

If these things don't appeal to you or fit your approach to the game, that's fine, but the issues I've raised have been around for a while and giving an option that fixes them for those who want it seems like a good idea, yes?

Callous2208 wrote: »

It just is what it is.

Until someone comes up with something better and the game and how people see it changes.

myrrrorb14_ESO

I've been wondering why they haven't added this feature for a while. It would make so much sense to be able to go back and do these zones with lower level friends or even for the first time if you skipped it. Being battle leveled down would keep it at a reasonable difficulty (still easy, but not as ridiculous).

tinythinker

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zos has already said they do not like leveling us lower hence manning us weaker.

And this is optional and opens up more chances for people to play together or feel challenged when they are over-leveled.

Eshelmen wrote: »

It is kind of pointless and a waste of space for all of the original zones. I mean come on, who here really goes to these zones to actually do stuff any more? Besides just skimming through them looking for skyshards.

There really is no point other than that.

If you did the scaling system for all zones, it would be much more enjoyable. I would love to go and finish all the old quests if it were actually a challenge for my toon again.

Well, the answers to your comment are in the original post. I won't retype it all. It's right there to read. The solution I offered covers all base-game zones from starter islands to Craglorn, it includes new repeatable content, and it helps those who are over-leveled and bored as well as those playing with friends who are much lower level.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Like the first poster id rather have everyone come up, then go down. It would actually feel more like an elder scrolls game as well. Right from the start i could go anywhere in my faction i wanted and not have to worry about over level or under level. The main driving force would be getting my skills and crafts and doing the story. Then people would say why have levels in the game at all? They give a sense of progression and since it is a group game, gives people a guide as to what to expect from you in a group.

But as to a couple of your points, making it a toggle wont fix the problems with dolmans. Those higher levels that care are already gentle when others are at the dolmans. Those that dont care wont toggle it on anyway.

And second the game is fairly easy solo. So just grouping up with one person makes the content something just there to make you press some buttons inbetween the story bits. So to me it really doesnt matter what level the second character in the group is, just having one makes most of the content way to easy.

Callous2208

Kinda defensive today, aren't we tiny. I believe none of my comments were stated as fact, so you can drop your whole "because you and your friends think this way bs." You show me some clear evidence that a good deal of people would voluntarily downscale themselves for "fun with friends and challenge," and perhaps my opinion would change. I just think it would be a wasted option. Wouldn't hurt I suppose, since it is optional, but I can't see this ever going in as an option. It would be forced downscaling or not at all.

tinythinker

Callous2208 wrote: »

Kinda defensive today, aren't we tiny. I believe none of my comments were stated as fact, so you can drop your whole "because you and your friends think this way bs." You show me some clear evidence that a good deal of people would voluntarily downscale themselves for "fun with friends and challenge," and perhaps my opinion would change. I just think it would be a wasted option. Wouldn't hurt I suppose, since it is optional, but I can't see this ever going in as an option. It would be forced downscaling or not at all.

Not really, I even gave you smilies. Your opinion is your own and I'm not here to change it, but to respond the issues raised by it so that others who have similar concerns can have more to think about. If you took offense to my reply, someone is being a wee bit sensitive. You said what people would/wouldn't do, so who else would I think you based your opinions on but yourself and your friends? In any case, thanks for taking the time to reply and share your thoughts.

tinythinker

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

But as to a couple of your points, making it a toggle wont fix the problems with dolmans. Those higher levels that care are already gentle when others are at the dolmans. Those that dont care wont toggle it on anyway.

And it's boring for many players who tip toe around low level dolmens, so getting to really fight rather than just tag the boss once with a light attack would be a nice option. Higher level players who don't want to scale will behave the same way they do now, but, it's different when you *know* you could be nicer and choose to blow through the anchor with lowbies getting mad at you.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

And second the game is fairly easy solo. So just grouping up with one person makes the content something just there to make you press some buttons inbetween the story bits. So to me it really doesnt matter what level the second character in the group is, just having one makes most of the content way to easy.

How easy or hard it is varies from player to player. And some people really do enjoy running together and not having their friend nuke everything.

Not everyone will have a reason to use the toggle, but, again, for those who want it to not be rude to low level players, to run at the same level with friends, to have a challenge when they start to over-level a zone, to go back and complete stuff they missed and not have it be super-easy with no xp, etc, it's something that would add to the game. The whole point of the toggle is to let players decide when they want to add some challenge or be considerate of others. Those who see no point can leave the option off forever and the game will be exactly like it is for them now

Villious

Guild Wars 2 does this, and it work very well. Let's veteran players play/help new players and gives a reason to go back to lower level zones.

New and future MMOs should have this as a requirement. If there is an argument against it, I can't imagine what it would be.

NeillMcAttack

Yes, this would be fun. Believe it or not but i actually enjoyed many of the quests while leveling (*shouts from the back* HEATHEN!!!). But having spent so much time in Cyrodiil I kind of out leveled my factions zone very quick. I have always thought about going back to complete them for the skill points but, man it's too boring.

Also, it would help immensely when trying to play with friends. Right now, even if you made a new toon, you stroll through everything constantly reminding your mate how ridiculously far ahead of him you will always be, even on new characters. It's gotta be more than a little disheartening for noobies. So the ability to disable CP's without spending 3k every time you change zone would be nice too.

QuebraRegra

my prob with going backward, is that the loot would still be worthless... Might be more advantageous to scale everyone up?

Not the same kinda game, but DEAD ISLAND had the best solution I have seen for coop... Each player sees the enemy at their own level, when cooping. Damage is calculated by a percentage scale which is governed by XP.

Callous2208

Villious wrote: »

Guild Wars 2 does this, and it work very well. Let's veteran players play/help new players and gives a reason to go back to lower level zones.

New and future MMOs should have this as a requirement. If there is an argument against it, I can't imagine what it would be.

Eh, I always use gw2 as my example of why it doesn't work. I know some people enjoyed it and others did not. To me, you never felt any stronger in gw2 no matter what level you were due to downscaling and it got tedious when you just wanted to quickly run through and complete something. That and the loot issue never really made me want to return to a lower zone. That was forced though, perhaps a toggle and loot scaling would alleviate this, though I'm not sure if they could work simultaneously.

Gidorick

I completely agree!

From http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/176972/add-the-option-to-scale-characters-down-to-older-zones-please-d/p1 posted June 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Hey @ZOS. Could you please give us the option to scale our characters DOWN to the zone? If my character is above the highest acceptable level for the zone, scale the character down so they are viable in that zone.

So, let's take the Daggerfall Covenant zones:

Since the point at which players "outlevel" mobs is 5 levels, players should be scaled down to one level above the highest level for the zone, so that would be:

Betnikh: 6
Glenumbra: 16
Stormhaven: 24
Ravenspire: 31
Alik'r Desert: 38
Bangkorai: 44

If a character is above those levels, the character should get scaled down to the highest level for the zone +1. They should also receive XP that is appropriate for that level. If a Vet 4 Daggerfall Covenant player visits Stormhaven, they should be scaled to level 24. It takes 31,000 XP to attain level 25. If a player who is actually level 24 receives 155 XP (0.5%) for killing a mob, the Vet 4 should receive the same 155XP (0.0155% of 1 million). Scaled dungeons should continue to work as they currently are.

This way, the VR4 player CAN just grind 6,512 mobs in Stormhaven if they really WANT to do that but it would be more beneficial to them to move on to a higher level zone.

This scaling should be associated with the Battle Level toggle so players could be allowed to turn battle level off and they will not be scaled, and will not receive XP for killing mobs too far beneath their level, just like it is now. This would make this whole mechanic an optional feature of ESO so players can play the game in the way THEY want to play it.

Additionally, if the Battle Level is toggled off, Mobs that are more than 10 levels below a character's level should just completely ignore the player unless the player agros them. (Idea is courtesy of @Psychobunni!)

So a player could visit a zone and explore without needing to fight off mobs or they could go through and lay waste as an overpowered beast of a warrior, or they could go in and be given a little bit of a challenge but would still feel powerful.

This scaling would keep older zones more viable for continuous play. Players can grind mobs and gain experience wherever they see fit.

Thoughts? What are the reasons this would be a bad thing?

Main difference is I suggested that we be scaled down to 1 level above max for the zone. This is so we are still able to feel more powerful than the zone instead of just being on par with the zone.

TheShadowScout

tinythinker wrote: »

- dolmens at lower levels being blown away by high level players before low levels even get a hit in
- leveling so fast that you get bored with the content
- having a friend who is too high level to adventure with because they get bored or blow everything away
- people who on PTS are realizing that they have been scaled up a lot by getting additional Champion ranks and finding the content they were on too easy
- people who will, after DB launches, realize the same thing about their main or an alt who hits level 50 and suddenly has a ton of CP to spend

Yes, mixed teams on dolmen are iffy. But that's a "d'oh" thing... and not an issue seeing how dolmen respawn anyhow. Or if the higher player is considerate and restrains themselves, letting the lowbies get in some hits first, then flattening the mobs themselves.

Fast levelling is an issue for veterans, true, who already know the tricks. Newbies on the other hand??? Heck back when I was new, it took me quite a while to get through some content, and several fights I -needed- to be overlevel for (granted, those fights may have gotten nerfed since then... in several cases, I am pretty sure they have been...). But veterans... usually go through those regions ojn their alt, where they often -want- to breeze through as quick as possible to get to the endgame they really are aiming for...

Grouping between different levels... is an issue. But, less so for the level, as more for the phases... try it. Half the quests, you will end up in the "finished" phase while your lowbie friend still has to get through the "in progress" phase before you are together again...

Champion ranks... yeah, can make content scaled for those without feel pretty easy sometimes. On the other hand, it IS fun to see how far you can get soloing content made for two people... I had a blast going solo through the wrothgar public dungeons!

tinythinker wrote: »

The pros to this idea and method of implementation are:
- have fun doing content way under your level like hunting generals at dolmens or helping out/questing with lower level friends/guildies/strangers without being bored or annoying lower level players by being stupidly OP
- have fun and challenge and get decent xp for completing content for which you may be way over-leveled for a variety of reasons
- go through Cadwell's zones in any order and find them all challenging while still letting those zones have a scaled progression of challenge for new players
- no immersion-breaking pop-up notifications or requests asking if you wanted to be scaled down when entering a low level zone (*yay* toggle!)
- can turn it off if you need to over-level something or just like being OP in lower level zones (*yay* toggle!)
- enjoy more zones again because the repeatable quests, the delves, etc, are no longer a complete faceroll
- oh did I say repeatable quests like the ones that they offer in Wrothgar? Yeah they could add those now to base zones with this scaling to make them fun again

I hunt generals in cyrodil. Its challenging enough, especially when you get ganked while focusing on the dolmen... the other regions dolmens, I just want to clear as quick as possible, since they won't drop anything useful for me anyways. And always feel sort of vexed when a general pops up, for the "wasted" chance at general drops, which would then be useless due to lower V-rankyness.

Cadwells zones... could use a "battle levelling" feature instead. Just make them like wrothgar, no new mechanic needed. At all. After all, they will not be needed to get a characer from V1 to V10/12/14... so just make them all 50(160cp) and add battle levelling, solving ALl the level problems in there.


All that considered, I really disliked downscaling in every game where I encountered it. Doubly so in those where the random loot drops were also downscaled. Never found it "fun" to loose some of my earned prowess, and always tried to get through those parts as quickly as possible.
Still... if such a feature was on a toggle, I could just disable it, and it wouldn't affect me in any way...
But be that as it may, I cannot help but wonder if it would be a good idea for them to spend their limited and valuable coding time on a feature like this, when there are soo many other things WAY more likely to increase my ESO fun!

tinythinker

QuebraRegra wrote: »

my prob with going backward, is that the loot would still be worthless... Might be more advantageous to scale everyone up?

Not the same kinda game, but DEAD ISLAND had the best solution I have seen for coop... Each player sees the enemy at their own level, when cooping. Damage is calculated by a percentage scale which is governed by XP.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Cadwells zones... could use a "battle levelling" feature instead. Just make them like wrothgar, no new mechanic needed. At all. After all, they will not be needed to get a characer from V1 to V10/12/14... so just make them all 50(160cp) and add battle levelling, solving ALl the level problems in there.


All that considered, I really disliked downscaling in every game where I encountered it. Doubly so in those where the random loot drops were also downscaled. Never found it "fun" to loose some of my earned prowess, and always tried to get through those parts as quickly as possible.
Still... if such a feature was on a toggle, I could just disable it, and it wouldn't affect me in any way...
But be that as it may, I cannot help but wonder if it would be a good idea for them to spend their limited and valuable coding time on a feature like this, when there are soo many other things WAY more likely to increase my ESO fun!

Loot could easily be scaled to your "true" level. Universal leveling up adds new problems because it means every zone has to be max level. As for problems with over-leveling not being a thing for new players, go to Cyro and you level up fast. Same with heading over to do DLC. New or not, you go can easily back to your main progression zone way over-leveled. Unless we are doing a "every zone is the same difficulty" switch, if base zones ares still to be staggered by challenge to let players learn and make them feel like they are getting stronger, over-leveling will always be an issue and the problems associated with it, from which I pulled the ones people gripe about most for the original post, will persist. I'm just thinking of a way to let people keep things the same way it is now if they like it that way while also addressing the over-leveling issue for those who are interested.

Also it opens up a way to add new content and life to zones people have little reason to go back to other than TG or DB quests. I would love to run some old delves and group dungeons again with scaling and new repeatable quests, to meet and help newer players, etc. But I don't expect everyone to care about over-leveling issues or wanting to renew old zones, hence the toggle

Gidorick wrote: »

I completely agree!

From http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/176972/add-the-option-to-scale-characters-down-to-older-zones-please-d/p1 posted June 2015

Heh, was in a hurry earlier, didn't take time for my "Didn't @Gidorick already post this idea?" check.

Gidorick

The more posts the better I say @tinythinker !!

ADarklore

Funny because the devs have said numerous times that they will not be going back to re-work older content. They make no money off older content and it would take developers off current and future content, which again, they make no money off of. Financially it is better for them to focus on the quarterly DLC releases to give players more 'battle-leveled' zones which they can play at any time, and after a few months from now, with all the DLCs, people won't care about 'going back' to older content.

Also, DCUO tried updating their older zones to scale, it didn't work, and they ended up restoring everything back to the way they were originally. So clearly it is not as easy as so many arm-chair developers like to make it sound.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

How about a system where you can scale your level and stats down manually

there are a few mmo's i know of that do this, you right click your character, open the mentoring system, lower your level to the zone you are in, or slightly over if you want it to be easy but not too easy, or vice versa hard but not to hard with lower level

honestly this would make things oodles better, i WANT to be able to explore the entirty of tamriel without having to wonder if im going to one shot everything in the area i just wandered into

Loot, well as cyrodiil proves, you can scale loot to a player's level true level no matter the scaleing, just implement that everywhere

make half the harvesting nodes EVERYWHERE scale to your level

this would make it feel more like a elder scrolls game than a mmo, which i want for this game, the more TES it is, the less MMO it is, the better

Eshelmen

tinythinker wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zos has already said they do not like leveling us lower hence manning us weaker.

And this is optional and opens up more chances for people to play together or feel challenged when they are over-leveled.

Eshelmen wrote: »

It is kind of pointless and a waste of space for all of the original zones. I mean come on, who here really goes to these zones to actually do stuff any more? Besides just skimming through them looking for skyshards.

There really is no point other than that.

If you did the scaling system for all zones, it would be much more enjoyable. I would love to go and finish all the old quests if it were actually a challenge for my toon again.

Well, the answers to your comment are in the original post. I won't retype it all. It's right there to read. The solution I offered covers all base-game zones from starter islands to Craglorn, it includes new repeatable content, and it helps those who are over-leveled and bored as well as those playing with friends who are much lower level.

And believe me, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
If you give everyone reasons to get back to the zones, this game can expands exponentially.

Love the post

WalkingLegacy

Hate it in GW2 and will hate it if implemented here.

Gidorick

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Hate it in GW2 and will hate it if implemented here.

Why @WalkingLegacy ?

I've never played GW2 so I'm curious what's wrong with the feature.

Solid_Metal

Gidorick wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Hate it in GW2 and will hate it if implemented here.

Why @WalkingLegacy ?

I've never played GW2 so I'm curious what's wrong with the feature.

simply you cant feel any progress within your character, because it'll be consistenly getting scale down on that area (at least thats how i feel)

this actually and awesome idea, but only implement it on VR area on other faction land, scale it down base on that zone thus you can play with other players from that original faction without the need creating seperate instance for that zone that only for VR leveling

Gidorick

Solid_Metal wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Hate it in GW2 and will hate it if implemented here.

Why @WalkingLegacy ?

I've never played GW2 so I'm curious what's wrong with the feature.

simply you cant feel any progress within your character, because it'll be consistenly getting scale down on that area (at least thats how i feel)

this actually and awesome idea, but only implement it on VR area on other faction land, scale it down base on that zone thus you can play with other players from that original faction without the need creating seperate instance for that zone that only for VR leveling

I have a concept that you might find interesting @Solid_Metal

Gidorick wrote: »

With the recent announcement of the changes coming to Cadwell’s Silver and Gold (pretty much they are going to be leveled to 50) there is an opportunity with Tamriel. I am hoping ZOS will implement the following changes to open up end-game PVE for all players:

1. Implement Veteran Alliance Zones: Once a player gains access to Cadwell’s Silver and Gold their home alliance should ALSO be scaled up. Functionally, players should gain access to a NEW version of their home alliance zones. These zones should be scaled to level 50 and should be separated from the 1-50 pre-end-game players. However, all the player’s achievements and progressions should carry over. This would allow players to play through older quests and clear out zones they haven’t completely finished without compromising their CP gains.
2. Bring EVERYONE together: Once a player reaches end game ALL veteran players should be playing in the game zones. The fact that all zones would be leveled to level 50 would mean there would be no leveling issues.
3. Master Leveling: Players should then also have the opportunity to join and level to other players in the older, lower level zones, irrespective of their level. Master Leveling should be a toggle all players have access to similar to Battle Leveling. Instead of leveling a player to the zone, Master Leveling levels a player to the leader of their group. This can be utilized by all players at any time and can level the player up or down. Any player who wishes to group across the Veteran threshold of level 50 should be required to have Master Leveling activated. Once they group, they should then only be allowed to "travel to leader". Players who has Master Leveling enabled should no be able to traveled to. Once the player leaves the group, they are returned to their home instance of the zone they are in via wayshrine travel.

If these three things were added to ESO, we would see level 1-50 players play in their own zones separate from veteran players and the veterans would play in a completely shared Tamriel with the option to join and scale to their non-vet friends if they so desired.

Thoughts?

Sardath

Just to clear some misconceptions on the downscalning in GW2, it's one of the few things that the game does better than ESO PvE-wise.

It doesn't eliminate progression, at all. You will be stronger than a true lvl 15 for example. No one forces you to go in the lower level zones, you can jump in the appropriate level zones, as there are plenty, and still feel that you are progressing.

Now, if you've gotten to max lvl, you have to option to visit low level zones and still have fun in the events/world bosses. And because maps have mats(and also items that you can deconstruct into mats) as rewards, you have a reason to do them. Low level maps always feel alive because of this.

There really isn't a downside to this.

Solid_Metal

maybe you are right with the "You will be stronger than a true lvl 15 for example. ", but still sometimes we need to go to lower level area, and these mobs still agresive to all players, as a level let say 50, you should can 1 hit that annoying mob, but because of the scale down, you can't

and yes, its annoying and i';m not feeling stronger in my time playing in it

as i said, the concept is good, but need a correct implementation, and GW2 imo not

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

The more posts the better I say tinythinker !!

Definitely agree with that! I'm sure I've mentioned it a few times too

tinythinker

Solid_Metal wrote: »

maybe you are right with the "You will be stronger than a true lvl 15 for example. ", but still sometimes we need to go to lower level area, and these mobs still agresive to all players, as a level let say 50, you should can 1 hit that annoying mob, but because of the scale down, you can't

and yes, its annoying and i';m not feeling stronger in my time playing in it

as i said, the concept is good, but need a correct implementation, and GW2 imo not

Right, but in my OP the key element is that it can be toggled on/off. It's not forced. So as I mentioned at the top if you want to play like you do now in lower level zones, then you can, or if you need to swap back and forth, it's easy. Pop it on or off at will.

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

How about a system where you can scale your level and stats down manually

there are a few mmo's i know of that do this, you right click your character, open the mentoring system, lower your level to the zone you are in, or slightly over if you want it to be easy but not too easy, or vice versa hard but not to hard with lower level

honestly this would make things oodles better, i WANT to be able to explore the entirty of tamriel without having to wonder if im going to one shot everything in the area i just wandered into

Loot, well as cyrodiil proves, you can scale loot to a player's level true level no matter the scaleing, just implement that everywhere

make half the harvesting nodes EVERYWHERE scale to your level

this would make it feel more like a elder scrolls game than a mmo, which i want for this game, the more TES it is, the less MMO it is, the better

Well, the on/off toggle I suggested is manual, if that's what you mean, and having it read the zone and give a fixed scaling would be easiest to implement, but sure, it could also read the zone and give a range, like being a lower than recommended, being right at recommended, and being a little over recommended, if that's what you mean. And yeah even in the original version of this from another thread I always had loot scaling to true level, which would include those sets that never got the update to max level treatment, so that you could go back and get it now at CR160 or whatever the gear cap would be at the time.