The Elder Tanks Online

frozywozy

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

You forgot the stam builds that run pure bombard now instead of speed. Obviously they aren't a majority of the raid numerically, but they are vital in controlling fights. Just like with the old negate meta, you'd pretty much never run more than 4-5 negates since you'd always have at least one ready with that number.

I am really having trouble comprehending how you, as a self professed bombard spammer, can keep a straight face as you deny the existence of a bombard meta currently.

You don't need to explain to me how Bombard work and why people should use it or not. I've already explained my concern in my previous post. I'll repeat it again for you since you totally ignored it. Bombard doesn't register in high latency situations. You hit 1 or 2 players when facing 15-20. It is not responsive. Steel Tornado or Cleave works 10 times better.

Until the latency is fixed, I'm not going to use Bombard anymore in lag fights.

I didn't ignore what you said about bombard and lag, if you actually played in group play, you would notice that every time you engage a large number of enemies, your own players get perma rooted by bombards no matter how bad the lag is, no matter how much you spam purge, purify, rapids, ect. This is simply from the sheer number of people spamming bombards these days.

Sure bombards aren't going to do leet dps and get you kills, they actually do something more powerful, it locks people out of controlling their toons, and then the magicka dps and siege takes care of the rest.

As I said, I use addons to show me the amount of people I hit with Bombard when facing 15-20 of them. I hit 1 or 2 players max. It doesn't work. I'll make a video next time to demonstrate it. So if your group is getting perma rooted, it's because there is around 12-15 players all spamming Bombard and hitting 1-2 players each. And at this point, you deserve to be perma-rooted.

I don't like the new snare meta. It is frustrating. But I also don't like when 24men ballgroups run their marathon freely farming APs without any counter. Like what you've done repeatedly at primetime yesterday from Aleswell to Chalman.

I was in the middle of your group spamming Bombard for 30mins straight without snaring anyone. I'll show it in the next video.

Rylana

To follow up on the thread, maybe I do give some zergers more credit than they deserve, but then some of those AD guilds came out of the woodwork running those meat + heal stacks that took extremely well coordinated hits + siege to even damage, much less wipe.

I think of those when I think of this, those 10+ templar healstacks, now with shield stacks, and i cringe.

HoloYoitsu

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

You forgot the stam builds that run pure bombard now instead of speed. Obviously they aren't a majority of the raid numerically, but they are vital in controlling fights. Just like with the old negate meta, you'd pretty much never run more than 4-5 negates since you'd always have at least one ready with that number.

I am really having trouble comprehending how you, as a self professed bombard spammer, can keep a straight face as you deny the existence of a bombard meta currently.

You don't need to explain to me how Bombard work and why people should use it or not. I've already explained my concern in my previous post. I'll repeat it again for you since you totally ignored it. Bombard doesn't register in high latency situations. You hit 1 or 2 players when facing 15-20. It is not responsive. Steel Tornado or Cleave works 10 times better.

Until the latency is fixed, I'm not going to use Bombard anymore in lag fights.

I didn't ignore what you said about bombard and lag, if you actually played in group play, you would notice that every time you engage a large number of enemies, your own players get perma rooted by bombards no matter how bad the lag is, no matter how much you spam purge, purify, rapids, ect. This is simply from the sheer number of people spamming bombards these days.

Sure bombards aren't going to do leet dps and get you kills, they actually do something more powerful, it locks people out of controlling their toons, and then the magicka dps and siege takes care of the rest.

As I said, I use addons to show me the amount of people I hit with Bombard when facing 15-20 of them. I hit 1 or 2 players max. It doesn't work. I'll make a video next time to demonstrate it. So if your group is getting perma rooted, it's because there is around 12-15 players all spamming Bombard and hitting 1-2 players each. And at this point, you deserve to be perma-rooted.

I don't like the new snare meta. It is frustrating. But I also don't like when 24men ballgroups run their marathon freely farming APs without any counter. Like what you've done repeatedly at primetime yesterday from Aleswell to Chalman.

I was in the middle of your group spamming Bombard for 30mins straight without snaring anyone. I'll show it in the next video.

Wait, bombard is bad and doesn't do anything to groups, but you spent 30 min in the middle of a raid spamming bombard? Why????? I am trying to follow your logic here.

frozywozy

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

You forgot the stam builds that run pure bombard now instead of speed. Obviously they aren't a majority of the raid numerically, but they are vital in controlling fights. Just like with the old negate meta, you'd pretty much never run more than 4-5 negates since you'd always have at least one ready with that number.

I am really having trouble comprehending how you, as a self professed bombard spammer, can keep a straight face as you deny the existence of a bombard meta currently.

You don't need to explain to me how Bombard work and why people should use it or not. I've already explained my concern in my previous post. I'll repeat it again for you since you totally ignored it. Bombard doesn't register in high latency situations. You hit 1 or 2 players when facing 15-20. It is not responsive. Steel Tornado or Cleave works 10 times better.

Until the latency is fixed, I'm not going to use Bombard anymore in lag fights.

I didn't ignore what you said about bombard and lag, if you actually played in group play, you would notice that every time you engage a large number of enemies, your own players get perma rooted by bombards no matter how bad the lag is, no matter how much you spam purge, purify, rapids, ect. This is simply from the sheer number of people spamming bombards these days.

Sure bombards aren't going to do leet dps and get you kills, they actually do something more powerful, it locks people out of controlling their toons, and then the magicka dps and siege takes care of the rest.

As I said, I use addons to show me the amount of people I hit with Bombard when facing 15-20 of them. I hit 1 or 2 players max. It doesn't work. I'll make a video next time to demonstrate it. So if your group is getting perma rooted, it's because there is around 12-15 players all spamming Bombard and hitting 1-2 players each. And at this point, you deserve to be perma-rooted.

I don't like the new snare meta. It is frustrating. But I also don't like when 24men ballgroups run their marathon freely farming APs without any counter. Like what you've done repeatedly at primetime yesterday from Aleswell to Chalman.

I was in the middle of your group spamming Bombard for 30mins straight without snaring anyone. I'll show it in the next video.

Wait, bombard is bad and doesn't do anything to groups, but you spent 30 min in the middle of a raid spamming bombard? Why????? I am trying to follow your logic here.

Because I was hoping it would work as intended (No cap - 20meters range - root enemy on hit or apply 60% snare debuff) which doesn't work in high latency situations, and the reason why I said in my last post that I would not use it anymore in high latency fights but would go for Cleave instead, since Cleave is also getting a 20% damage buff on the dot part next patch and worth testing anyway.

People have been saying in forums that Trueflame has been working well at the start of the week so I figured I would not run into major problems, which was my mystake on the night of wednesday / thursday. It was just as bad as before. Avoid Aleswell <=> Chalman mode reactivated.

Ghostbane

If we get Sypher to stream himself running about for 30 minutes just Elemental Draining and Spell Syming everything.

All of this will be ok in a few days.

Elong

If I could put one thing in Room 101 it'd be Bombard.

Satiar

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

You forgot the stam builds that run pure bombard now instead of speed. Obviously they aren't a majority of the raid numerically, but they are vital in controlling fights. Just like with the old negate meta, you'd pretty much never run more than 4-5 negates since you'd always have at least one ready with that number.

I am really having trouble comprehending how you, as a self professed bombard spammer, can keep a straight face as you deny the existence of a bombard meta currently.

You don't need to explain to me how Bombard work and why people should use it or not. I've already explained my concern in my previous post. I'll repeat it again for you since you totally ignored it. Bombard doesn't register in high latency situations. You hit 1 or 2 players when facing 15-20. It is not responsive. Steel Tornado or Cleave works 10 times better.

Until the latency is fixed, I'm not going to use Bombard anymore in lag fights.

I didn't ignore what you said about bombard and lag, if you actually played in group play, you would notice that every time you engage a large number of enemies, your own players get perma rooted by bombards no matter how bad the lag is, no matter how much you spam purge, purify, rapids, ect. This is simply from the sheer number of people spamming bombards these days.

Sure bombards aren't going to do leet dps and get you kills, they actually do something more powerful, it locks people out of controlling their toons, and then the magicka dps and siege takes care of the rest.

As I said, I use addons to show me the amount of people I hit with Bombard when facing 15-20 of them. I hit 1 or 2 players max. It doesn't work. I'll make a video next time to demonstrate it. So if your group is getting perma rooted, it's because there is around 12-15 players all spamming Bombard and hitting 1-2 players each. And at this point, you deserve to be perma-rooted.

I don't like the new snare meta. It is frustrating. But I also don't like when 24men ballgroups run their marathon freely farming APs without any counter. Like what you've done repeatedly at primetime yesterday from Aleswell to Chalman.

I was in the middle of your group spamming Bombard for 30mins straight without snaring anyone. I'll show it in the next video.

Wait, bombard is bad and doesn't do anything to groups, but you spent 30 min in the middle of a raid spamming bombard? Why????? I am trying to follow your logic here.

Because I was hoping it would work as intended (No cap - 20meters range - root enemy on hit or apply 60% snare debuff) which doesn't work in high latency situations, and the reason why I said in my last post that I would not use it anymore in high latency fights but would go for Cleave instead, since Cleave is also getting a 20% damage buff on the dot part next patch and worth testing anyway.

People have been saying in forums that Trueflame has been working well at the start of the week so I figured I would not run into major problems, which was my mystake on the night of wednesday / thursday. It was just as bad as before. Avoid Aleswell <=> Chalman mode reactivated.

Step one to better latency at Aleswell is removing the the 60+ EP stacked there.

I'd say the same about Chal but it's a home keep so you have an excuse there.

Satiar

On topic, I'm interested in trying a Tank meta buttttttt Prox Det took a big hit. It's going to be difficult to up damage enough for group busting while maintaining resources and tank-like health and resistances.

Like, currently some Invictus members run super tanky but they also don't... Hurt? I feel like this is only going to get worse next patch.

Or I could just run 10 DKs 10 Templars, all heavy armor and just stand on flags pretending it's 1.5!

Xsorus

Satiar wrote: »

On topic, I'm interested in trying a Tank meta buttttttt Prox Det took a big hit. It's going to be difficult to up damage enough for group busting while maintaining resources and tank-like health and resistances.

Like, currently some Invictus members run super tanky but they also don't... Hurt? I feel like this is only going to get worse next patch.

Or I could just run 10 DKs 10 Templars, all heavy armor and just stand on flags pretending it's 1.5!

Prox Det took a hit..but it starts scaling up to a lot of damage past 10 people..I don't imagine getting hit by a prox det with a 20 person stack bonus would be pleasant....

Ghost-Shot

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

On topic, I'm interested in trying a Tank meta buttttttt Prox Det took a big hit. It's going to be difficult to up damage enough for group busting while maintaining resources and tank-like health and resistances.

Like, currently some Invictus members run super tanky but they also don't... Hurt? I feel like this is only going to get worse next patch.

Or I could just run 10 DKs 10 Templars, all heavy armor and just stand on flags pretending it's 1.5!

Prox Det took a hit..but it starts scaling up to a lot of damage past 10 people..I don't imagine getting hit by a prox det with a 20 person stack bonus would be pleasant....

It's not that bad as it is on live, so after the changes its even less concerning.

Xsorus

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

On topic, I'm interested in trying a Tank meta buttttttt Prox Det took a big hit. It's going to be difficult to up damage enough for group busting while maintaining resources and tank-like health and resistances.

Like, currently some Invictus members run super tanky but they also don't... Hurt? I feel like this is only going to get worse next patch.

Or I could just run 10 DKs 10 Templars, all heavy armor and just stand on flags pretending it's 1.5!

Prox Det took a hit..but it starts scaling up to a lot of damage past 10 people..I don't imagine getting hit by a prox det with a 20 person stack bonus would be pleasant....

It's not that bad as it is on live, so after the changes its even less concerning.

Yea i read it wrong to..it will do slightly less damage then live it seems.

Since it only stacks up to 250% (10 people)

Sublime

Have you met my friend Negate yet?

Ghost-Shot

Sublime wrote: »

Have you met my friend Negate yet?

OP

Rylana

Satiar wrote: »

On topic, I'm interested in trying a Tank meta buttttttt Prox Det took a big hit. It's going to be difficult to up damage enough for group busting while maintaining resources and tank-like health and resistances.

Like, currently some Invictus members run super tanky but they also don't... Hurt? I feel like this is only going to get worse next patch.

Or I could just run 10 DKs 10 Templars, all heavy armor and just stand on flags pretending it's 1.5!

Thats exactly what I think some groups are going to do, and they will be EXTREMELY hard to bust, if they even can be, between heal ults and mass shields (magma shell, igneous, blazing, harness, healward)

I think its way too soon to discount the strength of a group like that. Sure they arent gonna kill any, but forget holding a flag with them on it stacked.

Xsorus

Just run like 10 to 20 of those 45k-60k HP Templar Tanks lol...

Rylana

Xsorus wrote: »

Just run like 10 to 20 of those 45k-60k HP Templar Tanks lol...

Ishkashi vs Hzarn go go go go

Seriously, that build is ridiculously strong, and I saw it in action from both perspectives tonight.