The Elder Tanks Online

Rylana

It has occurred to me in my late night musings that Dark Brotherhood is going to result in a serious lack of death in Cyrodiil, especially for organized groups. Shift meta from what some people think will happen (everyone goes stam single target lolzcakes) to something more realistic... ball groups all running harness bone shield and healing ults + heavy armor and the like, and I can fully see a 12 man or so be completely unkillable, by nearly arbitrary figures.

Serious thoughts on this musing folks, because if you havent thought about this angle yet, and I am sure some of you have, this is going to get real, really fast. Remember the old days of stacked barriers? Now its going to be everyone rocking HA spamming Harness + Healing ward. This is gonna get ridiculous really quickly I think.

Focusing people down is going to be nearly impossible without staggering odds against them, and the zergbreakers are getting further and further nerfed. Good god imagine that three raid DC stack all running constantly cycled harnesses

o.o

Cinnamon_Spider

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

Rylana

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Cinnamon_Spider

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Packs of werewolves wearing shield breaker with sorc sidekicks readying their meatbags. The skies will darken from rancid meat and the thuds as they land will barely drown out the howls and that distict plinking of SB proc as they tear through layer upon layer of shields.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Packs of werewolves wearing shield breaker with sorc sidekicks readying their meatbags. The skies will darken from rancid meat and the thuds as they land will barely drown out the howls and that distict plinking of SB proc as they tear through layer upon layer of shields.

It's like poetry...so beautiful *sheds a single tear*

bitaken

I don't know. I think Rylana is giving too much credit to the zergers. Do you really think they process this material in the same method you do bud?

I can see a 12 man manufacturing things like this - and am looking at it closely myself. May actually try out some stuff on the PTS in line with what you are talking about with Bone shield + Harness + Hardened on 3 bombing sorcs. Remember...bone shield has a synergy. With enough shielding + enough stacked PD and VD on Sorcs + NB's +Temps - I can still see a bomb group of 12 just exploding the typical 24-40 man zerg groups. Two sorcs drop meteor One drops a negate + fully buffed out PD and VD off KB's - say good night princess zergling.

Dreyloch

Was doing some testing myself last night on the PTS in IC. I came across a templar trying to takeover an area flag that was DC's. So I decided to engage. To see how my 7 HA build worked. I beat him 2-3 times. However, each fight lasted upwards of 3-5 minutes. He was laying down his "house" trying to jab me, I'd back away, to take flight on him, get speared, get up, crit rush him, get him down to 25% health, he'd heal up to 75%....it was a great 3 battles, and I thank him for that. But, if this is how it's going to be, (and that was just one on one). I can't imagine how that's going to play out live with all the bells and whistles of buffs.

The new wolf pack leader ulti is really cool. IDK how thats going to fly with any lag. Get a few people using it at same time and could be an issue. Won't know till release. The new HA passives finally make it something possible to wear at 5 pieces plus. I think damage will still be lower than a glass DK wearing medium. That ...IMO is a great thing and as it should be.

IC mobs are a joke now. I spent maybe 45 minutes running around soloing the place including the mini boss mobs (not the sweepers) with werewolf like it was nothing. You can look hard in their direction and they'll fall over lol. But this makes it easier to get telvar so expect some activity out there. 4 new sets (ok, really 3 cause who the **** would wear that one needing 4x bonus going) and we shall see some IC revival. Along with the flag stuff in the city area's.

Ghostbane

bitaken wrote: »

I don't know. I think Rylana is giving too much credit to the zergers. Do you really think they process this material in the same method you do bud?

I can see a 12 man manufacturing things like this - and am looking at it closely myself. May actually try out some stuff on the PTS in line with what you are talking about with Bone shield + Harness + Hardened on 3 bombing sorcs. Remember...bone shield has a synergy. With enough shielding + enough stacked PD and VD on Sorcs + NB's +Temps - I can still see a bomb group of 12 just exploding the typical 24-40 man zerg groups. Two sorcs drop meteor One drops a negate + fully buffed out PD and VD off KB's - say good night princess zergling.

You'll need a banner for that. It's tradition.

frozywozy

Dreyloch wrote: »

Was doing some testing myself last night on the PTS in IC. I came across a templar trying to takeover an area flag that was DC's. So I decided to engage. To see how my 7 HA build worked. I beat him 2-3 times. However, each fight lasted upwards of 3-5 minutes. He was laying down his "house" trying to jab me, I'd back away, to take flight on him, get speared, get up, crit rush him, get him down to 25% health, he'd heal up to 75%....it was a great 3 battles, and I thank him for that. But, if this is how it's going to be, (and that was just one on one). I can't imagine how that's going to play out live with all the bells and whistles of buffs.

The new wolf pack leader ulti is really cool. IDK how thats going to fly with any lag. Get a few people using it at same time and could be an issue. Won't know till release. The new HA passives finally make it something possible to wear at 5 pieces plus. I think damage will still be lower than a glass DK wearing medium. That ...IMO is a great thing and as it should be.

IC mobs are a joke now. I spent maybe 45 minutes running around soloing the place including the mini boss mobs (not the sweepers) with werewolf like it was nothing. You can look hard in their direction and they'll fall over lol. But this makes it easier to get telvar so expect some activity out there. 4 new sets (ok, really 3 cause who the **** would wear that one needing 4x bonus going) and we shall see some IC revival. Along with the flag stuff in the city area's.

Exactly. Now that both LA and HA gives you more survivability and damage, I'm pretty worried about overall damage mitigation in general. Especially for some classes with even more options.

I don't think LA and HA should give survivability against both magic and physical damage.. that's just wrong. It will make fights last forever against any kind of opponent.

You should have to pick between LA or HA if you wanna counter a specific playstyle and spec, using the right skills and mechanics. Not to tank just anybody.

KenaPKK

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

DC accepts this challenge.

Zheg

I won't speak for regular pvp, but for group fights, it most certainly will not be tanky fights where no one dies. There are multiple options for rekting people trying to do what you describe. If anything, from how quickly we identified successes and failures last night in small scale testing, I think this meta will be far quicker to figure out than the TG meta. I also see a great deal of possibilities and different comps being viable, which is refreshing.

Xsorus

I'm just glad Heavy Armor will be viable again.

zuto40

my heavy armor build was deadly in TG, in DB itll finally be the monster i made it to be

HoloYoitsu

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Xsorus

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Wonder if anyone is going to try using the Trapping Webs morph on stacks.

Anazasi

I too have contemplated this matter. My conclusions are very optimistic. However, I see negates on the horizon for breaking up those balls, (negate wars 2.0 the remix.) In all my musings thus far on PTS, I noticed something very odd. Regens didn't seem to be the same on PTS as they are on live. Perhaps in all my cheer of the crafting bag I overlooked something but thus far I believe this DLC will bring glory to the field.

Turtl3Lov3

Anazasi wrote: »

Perhaps in all my cheer of the crafting bag I overlooked something but thus far I believe this DLC will bring glory to the field.

frozywozy

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Zheg

Anazasi wrote: »

I too have contemplated this matter. My conclusions are very optimistic. However, I see negates on the horizon for breaking up those balls, (negate wars 2.0 the remix.) In all my musings thus far on PTS, I noticed something very odd. Regens didn't seem to be the same on PTS as they are on live. Perhaps in all my cheer of the crafting bag I overlooked something but thus far I believe this DLC will bring glory to the field.

It's not just regen, my templar has 1-2k more magicka (depending on my bar) and a little bit more hp on PTS than he does on Live. It's not a template, just my regular guy, same gear and bars. I kind of glossed over their vet level restructuring formula, but I think it's affecting more than cost increases (though in this case it seems to be beneficial).

Armitas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atZezq_rW8Q

Lol someone exploited against that DK.

HoloYoitsu

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

frozywozy

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

_Chaos

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

For every raid that knows what they're doing, theres twice that in people running around with a bow spamming bombard.

Ishammael

KenaPKK wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

DC accepts this challenge.

THE LORD ISHAMMAEL SMELLS NAPALM IN THE MORNING.

VagabondAngel

@Wrobel : The answer to, and cause of, all of Cyrodiil's problems.

New set bonus please:

5 Piece bonus
Viral Tanklerator - does 20k disease damage to any enemy who has more than one shield active, reducing healing done by 50%, Damage scales by 10% for each enemy within 12m, up to 100% more.

HoloYoitsu

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

You forgot the stam builds that run pure bombard now instead of speed. Obviously they aren't a majority of the raid numerically, but they are vital in controlling fights. Just like with the old negate meta, you'd pretty much never run more than 4-5 negates since you'd always have at least one ready with that number.

I am really having trouble comprehending how you, as a self professed bombard spammer, can keep a straight face as you deny the existence of a bombard meta currently.

Ghost-Shot

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

Frozn I've watched you do it, and in case you haven't been able to add 2 and 2 together yet do you know why that ball group becomes stationary? Because of the cancer that is bombard spam and the players doing it.

Ghost-Shot

I believe @Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO would like to share his feelings regarding bombard spam.

Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO

Bombard spam is lame and anyone who does it gets a t-bag in game for the rest of eternity.

frozywozy

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

You forgot the stam builds that run pure bombard now instead of speed. Obviously they aren't a majority of the raid numerically, but they are vital in controlling fights. Just like with the old negate meta, you'd pretty much never run more than 4-5 negates since you'd always have at least one ready with that number.

I am really having trouble comprehending how you, as a self professed bombard spammer, can keep a straight face as you deny the existence of a bombard meta currently.

You don't need to explain to me how Bombard work and why people should use it or not. I've already explained my concern in my previous post. I'll repeat it again for you since you totally ignored it. Bombard doesn't register in high latency situations. You hit 1 or 2 players when facing 15-20. It is not responsive. Steel Tornado or Cleave works 10 times better.

Until the latency is fixed, I'm not going to use Bombard anymore in lag fights. And that is when I'm part of a lag fight, because when I'm leading, I usually bring my group to the total opposite on the map. Something everybody should do.

HoloYoitsu

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Maybe there will be counter zergs all decked out in shield breaker.

That would be a sight to see, 50 man blobs spamming light attacks that make ugly sounds. I doubt it would break the healing threshold though. A pack of werewolves and meatbag MIGHT cause a dent, but just in theory, it may actually be possible to make an unkillable zerg now.

Also, you think DB is going to be a tanky meta in GvG? LOL no. What it's going to be is magicka based raids bombing each other just like now, only whoever has the most negates wins. The only thing a magicka build can do after CC breaking negate is walking or dodge rolling out since you can't CC break the silence.

Pop quiz: How many bombards does it take to keep you from dodge rolling?

All you're going to see in Cyrodiil is exactly the same thing you see now, only with negate replacing maybe 1/3 of the meteors. Not to mention the 15% base across the board cost increase will push people even more to burst builds.

Bombard is usually unresponsive in lag. It is the worst aoe in the game. I've tested it times and times again. When a 24men ballgroup is running around destroying zerglings with the latency spiking to 800ms, Bombard, no matter if you hit behind the ballgroup, directly on the ballgroup or in front of the ballgroup, will hit 1 or 2 players max until the ballgroup stays stationary for a couple seconds, then it finally registers properly.

Otherwise, Bombard is definitely not the right skill to use in high latency scenarios. You're better off with Steel Tornado or even Cleave. Those register instantly on all targets in range. Until they fix the lag, Bombard is never going to work properly so for all people complaining about Bombard not working correctly and stacking the snare debuffs, you're lucky it's not accurate and not hitting all targets in range.

Doesn't matter when there's 10+ puggle bombard spammers around every corner when you try to bomb the zerg. Bombard is the meta, and the negate change will just make it worse.

Lol? Bombard is the meta but yet all blobs are 90% magicka users who run with 24 prox dets, saps, inhales, banners, bat swarms, meteors, tethers. right

You forgot the stam builds that run pure bombard now instead of speed. Obviously they aren't a majority of the raid numerically, but they are vital in controlling fights. Just like with the old negate meta, you'd pretty much never run more than 4-5 negates since you'd always have at least one ready with that number.

I am really having trouble comprehending how you, as a self professed bombard spammer, can keep a straight face as you deny the existence of a bombard meta currently.

You don't need to explain to me how Bombard work and why people should use it or not. I've already explained my concern in my previous post. I'll repeat it again for you since you totally ignored it. Bombard doesn't register in high latency situations. You hit 1 or 2 players when facing 15-20. It is not responsive. Steel Tornado or Cleave works 10 times better.

Until the latency is fixed, I'm not going to use Bombard anymore in lag fights.

I didn't ignore what you said about bombard and lag, if you actually played in group play, you would notice that every time you engage a large number of enemies, your own players get perma rooted by bombards no matter how bad the lag is, no matter how much you spam purge, purify, rapids, ect. This is simply from the sheer number of people spamming bombards these days.

Sure bombards aren't going to do leet dps and get you kills, they actually do something more powerful, it locks people out of controlling their toons, and then the magicka dps and siege takes care of the rest.