Heavy Armor Nerf?

GoodOlPinkly

For one I Love what they did with Heavy Armor. All of it except for the removal of the Bracing passive. Don't get me wrong I do like the Wraith passive but why take away a tanks survivability and replace it with damage. Like I said I do like both, but if I had to choose I would keep bracing. How about you guys?

Weesacs

Agreed.

I wear heavy armour to tank NOT to DPS ... not sure the reason for this change. Would be awesome to know why.

Tonnopesce

Since i use burning embers with my mag dk tank for self heals is really a good change for me

GoodOlPinkly

I wonder if Zos would consider maybe cutting bracing to 15% and add the Wraith effect.

Kippesnikke

hey guys. This is a big subject atm. There is already a forum post about it.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2911260#Comment_2911260

Reevster

What does the Wraith passive do, , I like mixing Heavy in my Mag builds ,plus is this a 5 piece passive or single piece passive

Sardath

I'm really glad they made the change. If you can both tank and DPS with LA and MA, why shouldn't you be able to DPS with HA?

stevepdodson_ESO888

re-craft your armour with the updated Sturdy trait for reduced block cost

Bad_Company

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

For one I Love what they did with Heavy Armor. All of it except for the removal of the Bracing passive. Don't get me wrong I do like the Wraith passive but why take away a tanks survivability and replace it with damage. Like I said I do like both, but if I had to choose I would keep bracing. How about you guys?

IMHO, this change aims at providing tanks with tools to be more self-reliable in terms of healing, since healing abilities scale off spell and weapon power.

GoodOlPinkly

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

re-craft your armour with the updated Sturdy trait for reduced block cost

I would have to give up my Impen, but I guess we'll have to work around not being able to block as long.

Knightpanther

More DPS is great, I love Heavy Armour for the looks and just because I've played Heavy/Sword/Board in every game I've played.
Survivability isn't a problem for me solo so the extra damage is welcome, I can compensate a small nerf to defence with my Sorcerer buffs.

Be safe

failkiwib16_ESO

Bracing RIP

I feel they nerfed the main function of the armor, and made it a discount-dps armor type ...

Weesacs

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

re-craft your armour with the updated Sturdy trait for reduced block cost

I would have to give up my Impen, but I guess we'll have to work around not being able to block as long.

I 100% agree with you mate. From a PvP perspective and who runs impenetrable, and who doesnt care for DPS (just high survivability and support) - it just feels like a huge nerf.

Silver_Strider

I think it's a decent trade off.
While I will miss Bracing, I'll just need to compensate by incorporating Sturdy into my Armor and find a nice medium between that and Impenetrable so as to give me a balance of survivability, sustainability and damage. They also buffed some of the other passives of Heavy Armor a fair bit that actually makes them somewhat more useful.

My main problem with this change is in vMoL were I have to give up some trait slots for Sturdy when it was all Divines before to make up for this change but I suppose the extra damage from the Wrath passive will make up for that as well.

hydrocynus

But look at it in conjunction with the constitution buff! 275% increase in stamina and magicka regain when getting hit. So block costs more but this should compensate.

Pirhana7_ESO

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

For one I Love what they did with Heavy Armor. All of it except for the removal of the Bracing passive. Don't get me wrong I do like the Wraith passive but why take away a tanks survivability and replace it with damage. Like I said I do like both, but if I had to choose I would keep bracing. How about you guys?

Weesacs wrote: »

Agreed.

I wear heavy armour to tank NOT to DPS ... not sure the reason for this change. Would be awesome to know why.

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

I wonder if Zos would consider maybe cutting bracing to 15% and add the Wraith effect.

You guys need to relize what was traded for bracing, the passive that grants you magika / stamina every 4 seconds was raised to 275% This i=has already been tested on PTS and with 7/7 HA pieces you gte back 1200 stam / mag every 4 seconds. This is far more stamina you are gaining than what the 20% block reduction cost was giving you. Plus you are gaining stamina back while blocking. The big bonus on top of that is you are getting 1200 magika back every 4 seconds aswell. the actual Wraith passive is just another bonus.

If you would like more block reduction use the trait on your 2 small pieces like belts and gloves, but even without them you are still far better off in every way than before with Bracing.

Also there is actually a good reason to conisder the Desert Rose set now. As word is it bumps you around gaining 2k stam /mag every 4 seconds

People need to actually test and realize what was changed before crying. Its like someone taking away $20 from you to give you $50. But people will cry right away about having $20 taken from them

Eirikir

There are still plenty of ways to reduce blocking cost. I gladly give up one to have a bit more dps, seeing as dps for all roles is vital meta-wise in this game.

Jade1986

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

I wonder if Zos would consider maybe cutting bracing to 15% and add the Wraith effect.

Heavy armor needed all around buffs, it did not need ANY nerfs, and this is a big one. Whoever decided on that change needs to be donkey punched.

Jade1986

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

re-craft your armour with the updated Sturdy trait for reduced block cost

And be absolute gank bait for people running 80 percent crit? Yeah, that seems like a GREAT idea!

Pirhana7_ESO

laced wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

I wonder if Zos would consider maybe cutting bracing to 15% and add the Wraith effect.

Heavy armor needed all around buffs, it did not need ANY nerfs, and this is a big one. Whoever decided on that change needs to be donkey punched.

Read my post above yours. HA ONLY got buffed, bracing was replaced by a much better stamina regain from the 4 second passive hits

Robbmrp

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

For one I Love what they did with Heavy Armor. All of it except for the removal of the Bracing passive. Don't get me wrong I do like the Wraith passive but why take away a tanks survivability and replace it with damage. Like I said I do like both, but if I had to choose I would keep bracing. How about you guys?

They did that to make the Sturdy trait viable now. That's probably the only reasoning behind it.

GoodOlPinkly

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

For one I Love what they did with Heavy Armor. All of it except for the removal of the Bracing passive. Don't get me wrong I do like the Wraith passive but why take away a tanks survivability and replace it with damage. Like I said I do like both, but if I had to choose I would keep bracing. How about you guys?

Weesacs wrote: »

Agreed.

I wear heavy armour to tank NOT to DPS ... not sure the reason for this change. Would be awesome to know why.

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

I wonder if Zos would consider maybe cutting bracing to 15% and add the Wraith effect.

You guys need to relize what was traded for bracing, the passive that grants you magika / stamina every 4 seconds was raised to 275% This i=has already been tested on PTS and with 7/7 HA pieces you gte back 1200 stam / mag every 4 seconds. This is far more stamina you are gaining than what the 20% block reduction cost was giving you. Plus you are gaining stamina back while blocking. The big bonus on top of that is you are getting 1200 magika back every 4 seconds aswell. the actual Wraith passive is just another bonus.

If you would like more block reduction use the trait on your 2 small pieces like belts and gloves, but even without them you are still far better off in every way than before with Bracing.

Also there is actually a good reason to conisder the Desert Rose set now. As word is it bumps you around gaining 2k stam /mag every 4 seconds

People need to actually test and realize what was changed before crying. Its like someone taking away $20 from you to give you $50. But people will cry right away about having $20 taken from them

I've actually done testing aswell.... The with 7/7 heavy armor and the 275% bonus actually comes out to be slightly even when it comes to stamina management. That being said, that is one target... Once you get to two or three mobs the "NERF" begins to show it self very well. Now on to the fact that you need 7/7 to break even, meaning tanks arnt allowed to have the undaunted passive=Nerf, have to use sturdy instead of (Impen for pvp) or (divines, infused, Reinforced)= Nerf. Furthermore making Black rose viable for tanks is not what it is doing, its pretty much making it a requirement.

UltimaJoe777

What did heavy armor lose?

- Reduced Cost of Blocking

What did heavy armor gain?

- A slight form of retaliation (actually works to improve the new effects of Power Slam, giving tanks decent retaliation)
- Massive increase on resource gain from taking hits
- Twice as much health given
- Increase to healing received
- Now increases resource return by a large amount


Doesn't look like a nerf to me. If you don't like the idea of Sturdy's new effect replacing Bracing then consider the last effect I listed as a replacement. Block a hit or 2, throw a heavy attack, rinse lather repeat.

GoodOlPinkly

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

What did heavy armor lose?

- Reduced Cost of Blocking

What did heavy armor gain?

- A slight form of retaliation (actually works to improve the new effects of Power Slam, giving tanks decent retaliation)
- Massive increase on resource gain from taking hits
- Twice as much health given
- Increase to healing received
- Now increases resource return by a large amount


Doesn't look like a nerf to me. If you don't like the idea of Sturdy's new effect replacing Bracing then consider the last effect I listed as a replacement. Block a hit or 2, throw a heavy attack, rinse lather repeat.

Heavy armor was in such bad shape to begin with... Why take anything away from it, but that's fine with HA builds in pvp you'll always know to just crit them down cause they won't using impen

UltimaJoe777

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

What did heavy armor lose?

- Reduced Cost of Blocking

What did heavy armor gain?

- A slight form of retaliation (actually works to improve the new effects of Power Slam, giving tanks decent retaliation)
- Massive increase on resource gain from taking hits
- Twice as much health given
- Increase to healing received
- Now increases resource return by a large amount


Doesn't look like a nerf to me. If you don't like the idea of Sturdy's new effect replacing Bracing then consider the last effect I listed as a replacement. Block a hit or 2, throw a heavy attack, rinse lather repeat.

Heavy armor was in such bad shape to begin with... Why take anything away from it, but that's fine with HA builds in pvp you'll always know to just crit them down cause they won't using impen

Or will they?

So hard to know huh

Jade1986

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

laced wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

I wonder if Zos would consider maybe cutting bracing to 15% and add the Wraith effect.

Heavy armor needed all around buffs, it did not need ANY nerfs, and this is a big one. Whoever decided on that change needs to be donkey punched.

Read my post above yours. HA ONLY got buffed, bracing was replaced by a much better stamina regain from the 4 second passive hits

No, by definition getting thar removed is a nerf. It needed ALL around buffs, things needed to be improved that were there, and things needed to be added to bring it up to paar with the other armor lines. Removing the passive is just a slap in the face to HA SnB players.

Jade1986

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

What did heavy armor lose?

- Reduced Cost of Blocking

What did heavy armor gain?

- A slight form of retaliation (actually works to improve the new effects of Power Slam, giving tanks decent retaliation)
- Massive increase on resource gain from taking hits
- Twice as much health given
- Increase to healing received
- Now increases resource return by a large amount


Doesn't look like a nerf to me. If you don't like the idea of Sturdy's new effect replacing Bracing then consider the last effect I listed as a replacement. Block a hit or 2, throw a heavy attack, rinse lather repeat.

Heavy armor was in such bad shape to begin with... Why take anything away from it, but that's fine with HA builds in pvp you'll always know to just crit them down cause they won't using impen

This exactly. Now we have to sacrifice impen, which was CRUCIAL for HA builds, and use sturdy, so we just become gank bait because we are less tanky now. Good job ZoS.

Jade1986

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

What did heavy armor lose?

- Reduced Cost of Blocking

What did heavy armor gain?

- A slight form of retaliation (actually works to improve the new effects of Power Slam, giving tanks decent retaliation)
- Massive increase on resource gain from taking hits
- Twice as much health given
- Increase to healing received
- Now increases resource return by a large amount


Doesn't look like a nerf to me. If you don't like the idea of Sturdy's new effect replacing Bracing then consider the last effect I listed as a replacement. Block a hit or 2, throw a heavy attack, rinse lather repeat.

Explain how I am going to block a hit or two when getting swarmed and throw a hit and survive? Dodge rollers can dodge 190482034832048328424392489032 attacks while rolling no problem, but its totally ok for us to get slapped with a nerf? Logic.

Arthg

laced wrote: »

Explain how I am going to block a hit or two when getting swarmed and throw a hit and survive? Dodge rollers can dodge 190482034832048328424392489032 attacks while rolling no problem, but its totally ok for us to get slapped with a nerf? Logic.

As someone playing heavy armour no matter what (including PvP), I tend to see the changes as positive - but you do have a solid point. Hmmmm....

UltimaJoe777

laced wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

What did heavy armor lose?

- Reduced Cost of Blocking

What did heavy armor gain?

- A slight form of retaliation (actually works to improve the new effects of Power Slam, giving tanks decent retaliation)
- Massive increase on resource gain from taking hits
- Twice as much health given
- Increase to healing received
- Now increases resource return by a large amount


Doesn't look like a nerf to me. If you don't like the idea of Sturdy's new effect replacing Bracing then consider the last effect I listed as a replacement. Block a hit or 2, throw a heavy attack, rinse lather repeat.

Explain how I am going to block a hit or two when getting swarmed and throw a hit and survive? Dodge rollers can dodge 190482034832048328424392489032 attacks while rolling no problem, but its totally ok for us to get slapped with a nerf? Logic.

Zenimax is trying to keep people from dodging AND blocking infinitely, hence the base cost increase along with the changes. Overall though both sides have a way through traits to still maintain their stamina well. Whether you choose them or not is up to you.

Yes I agree Bracing could've been left alone it didn't have to change but the topic of this thread is "Heavy Armor nerfed?", not "Bracing nerfed?".

Yolokin_Swagonborn

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

What did heavy armor lose?

- Reduced Cost of Blocking

What did heavy armor gain?

- A slight form of retaliation (actually works to improve the new effects of Power Slam, giving tanks decent retaliation)
- Massive increase on resource gain from taking hits
- Twice as much health given
- Increase to healing received
- Now increases resource return by a large amount


Doesn't look like a nerf to me. If you don't like the idea of Sturdy's new effect replacing Bracing then consider the last effect I listed as a replacement. Block a hit or 2, throw a heavy attack, rinse lather repeat.

Explain how I am going to block a hit or two when getting swarmed and throw a hit and survive? Dodge rollers can dodge 190482034832048328424392489032 attacks while rolling no problem, but its totally ok for us to get slapped with a nerf? Logic.

Zenimax is trying to keep people from dodging AND blocking infinitely, hence the base cost increase along with the changes. Overall though both sides have a way through traits to still maintain their stamina well. Whether you choose them or not is up to you.

Yes I agree Bracing could've been left alone it didn't have to change but the topic of this thread is "Heavy Armor nerfed?", not "Bracing nerfed?".

IF they really cared about keeping people from doing anything "indefinitely" they need to get rid of the Crapeon system and re-instate soft caps. If they did that, then all of the nerfs of the last year wouldn't have been necessary. Shields wouldn't have been nerfed. bolt wouldn't have been re-nerfed. damage, heals wouldn't have needed a 50% nerf. Infinite resources and stacking damage to the roof with CP is what is killing this game and the root of all nerfs.