How to Gauge Success as a Tank?

Reorx_Holybeard

So in the recent cake week I leveled up a DragonKnight to v16 and have started tanking with him in PUG groups doing normal dungeons (will get to veteran dungeons once I'm more comfortable with him). After a few tanking runs this lead me to the question of how to gauge his success/progression as a tank?

I've played healer/DPS previously and this question seems a lot simpler for those characters:

• DPS -- Get as high of a DPS number as possible.
• Healer -- Make sure everyone lives and get as much DPS as possible.

Of course, this omits the general things that everyone can do like not dying, not running out of resources, general buff/utility etc...

So how can I similarly gauge my success as a tank? There are a few options I can think of:

1. How much healing I need?
2. How much DPS I can do?
3. How effectively I taunt and keep damage away from others?

but none of these seem completely effective. For #1 ideally I would be completely self-sufficient but this takes a large toll on how much DPS/utility I can do and the group does have a healer for a reason. For #2 my role is not for DPS and in tanking gear I can't really do that much DPS anyways (2-5k on bosses typically). For #3 there seems to be a good number of boss fights where mechanics override taunt and the boss does/goes where he wants to anyways.

So I'm curious how other people gauge their success at tanking. Ideally I'd like some sort of metric I can use to say "this fight went well" or "this fight went poorly" in order to get better at tanking.

Magdalina

It's an interesting question actually. It largely depends on your tank's class and the groups you normally run with.

Tanking overall is probably the most versatile type of role for the very reasons you posted, there're so many ways to approach it. The first and biggest is I guess actually keeping agro. Sometimes taunt bugs out and randomly drops. Sometimes it's overall a mess. Sometimes someone dies and fight takes much longer than it should/you recieve no support at all. Still, primarily your job is to hold agro(assuming you're pugging, to be safe you should generally assume the groupmates wear 7/7 light and do not know how to block/dodge too, so yeah...keep that agro ) and CC stuff(talons Chains are also great for pulling ranged ads in). And, well, stay alive to do the above. Also, positioning is often important. Turn the bosses that do frontal aoes away from your squishy groupmates, take the bosses out of AoEs so melee dps can access them etc.
Beyond that...honestly it depends on your/your group's preference. Some tanks spec for full tankiness and self sustain. Nothing can kill them, heals or not(DKs do have a bit of an easier way with this because of Magme Shell ulti which pretty much makes you invulnerable for a short time. Not best ulti in game overall but situationally extremely useful). Some spec for decent offdps(doable with DK due to all those nice class attacks/dots), but keep in mind that keeping agro/staying alive>doing damage. Some do great offheals in the meanwhile, though that's more for templars/NBs.

Perhaps the best advice for you is to simply try several different approaches and see what you like more

Unfortunately ZOS doesn't really like tanks though so a lot of the content can be completed without them, sometimes even way faster than with them
For "this fight went well"...hard to say really. Could say "no one died" but then if people choose to stand in red it's not really your fault. Perhaps "you did all you could so people didn't die"? Good luck, either way, hope this was helpful at all XD

ClockworkArc

I'm not the greatest tank in the world but I look at being the tank as being team leader.

You need to make sure everybody else is able to do their jobs.

DPS and Healer can't do their jobs if they are either dead or out of resources. Therefore, to tank well, if could be as simple as taunting the boss the whole fight. But if your group isn't quite killing it fast enough, contributing dps makes the whole thing easier. If there are trash mobs, you want to either make sure your dps and healer can handle them OR you want to make sure they are cc'd.

If the healer is having trouble with resources, you're going to want to chuck out heals.

Tanks need to adapt to make sure their team can do what they need to do. I remember a group I had while facing down Skoria, my team couldn't handle the aoe dps the boss puts out so I had to tank and throw out off heals to keep everyone alive. I also had to slot immovable so I could res.

Then there are fights like the Flesh Abomination, where you just have to taunt the boss (and 1 hoarvor if you can) so that everyone else can deal with everything else easily.

Then there are bosses like grobull where I basically just taunt the boss and spam bombard on the adds.

Then there are other bosses like Molag Kena, where they have a burn phase (she dishes out intense aoe damage and the healer will eventually go dry...youll die without heals...the dps will just die because...and Kena just needs to be put down). In that case you're job is to know when the burn phase is coming, and to be ready to contribute some solid numbers to the fight.

Forestd16b14_ESO

How you measure the greatness of a tank...........

Make sure you are the first one into a room yelling LEROY JENKINS instead of the DPS players.

Daraugh

It's a really good question! One I don't have an simple answer for, but as a healer the other day I very sincerely thanked a newer tank for making my job so easy! He kept great control over the boss on our first big pull, had enough health and mitigation that healing while was needed, it wasn't stressful, enough stam regen that shards I could throw shards to my dps as well and blocked as needed, without getting panicky and trying to permablock. When the boss was in execute range and under good control, he alternated dps. As a team leader he's focused, but patient.

Mitigation, health, resource regen, timing, patience and focus. Taking the points of my paragraph, that's the bare bones of what makes a good tank, in no particular order, from the perspective of a healer.

Autolycus

Here are some tanking pointers:
Tank Gear Setups and Tips for Newcomers to the Field

Here is a good build to consider, along with some very valuable insight pertaining to how mitigation works, how much healing received you want/need, and other information I consider to be quite valuable as a tank:
Ultimate Tank Build
.. and that's "ultimate" as in a build that generates a lot of ultimate. It's not implying it's the best and only tank build out there.

Asmael

In my book, a good tank:

1. Doesn't die easily.
2. Keeps taunt up all the time (sometimes, you let it down for a second and "OOPS", boss just oneshotted the healer)
3. Supports his teammates by debuffing the enemies (Major penetration) and buffing his allies (War horn...)
4. Can still have some sort of DPS

The first two are mandatory to every tank. The third one is a good step, the last one is for the best ones out there.

I don't care how you build your tank, what you choose / else, as long as you complete at least steps 1 & 2, I'm fine with it. Of course, to measure whether you have reached step 3 or 4, you need a rough estimate of the uptime on buffs / debuffs you provide as a tank. If you have to use your ultimates to survive pretty often, instead of buffing the group, you know there's still some way to go.

You'll probably need a team with which you run pretty often, having others' opinions can be pretty helpful on this matter.

Nestor

I am a decent tank, but I won't say I am great at it. I have run with great tanks and there is a difference.

One person mentioned being the team leader, that means more than just leading the charge to draw aggro. It means knowing the mechanics of the Bosses (hopefully) or at least having a plan in mind when approaching the boss for the first time. Then, communicating this to the group before engaging. It can be as simple as "I will hold aggro, you burn him down" or, " burn down the adds while I hold aggro". Or, it can be DPS's you stand here as this is a safer area, Healer you stand here to cover the DPSs" etc. Whatever the plan is, it is known before the fight begins.

The normal things of holding aggro, crowd control, maintaining resources, have the proper gear should be apparent. By proper gear, that means you have either enough Mitigation, or enough Health, to stand toe to toe with the boss/adds and take damage while you are taunting and keeping the boss aggro'd. Also, it is not enough to aggro the boss, but to do so in such a way that they don't harm the rest of the group. One of the tanks I run with is great at keeping the boss facing away from where the DPS and Healers are so that Boss cone attacks only come after them.

And, please have a Taunt on your bar. For most people, this means One Hand/Shield and the Taunt skill from that line, for others it can mean the ranged taunt from the Undaunted line, or both.

Know how and when to interrupt, some or most boss attacks can be interrupted there for helping the entire group.

I don't need the tank to DPS and heal, but its nice if they can. But if they hold aggro, keep the adds from overwhelming the group and stay alive, then they don't have to do any DPS or heals for me to call them good at their job.

Oh, and help your Tank out. Most Crowd Control ends when the mob takes damage or a certain amount of damage. If a mob is taloned or encased or whatever the tank is using, go after the other adds instead or burn the boss if it is in execute range. Be careful with your AoE, it does no good to remove CC when there are other adds out there running around causing havoc.

Xvorg

I'm not a tank at all. Nevertheless, if there's something I've realized about tanks is that they MUST have good res regen. That includes both, magicka and stamina (let''s add healing received too)

Having that covered, then it comes the playing style. You can play CC through skills which needs a good magicka or stamina pool. You can try to get the aggro, which needs a good mitigation (thus, a good stam pool for permablocking if necessary). You can play off tank and help with the dmg, for a quick run.

If you don't have a good res regen, then you cannot be a tank, which is the same for a healer. A DPS can run out of mag or stam and being a little less effective through light and heavy attacks, but they can keep on dpsing. But if you (or the healer) run out of res, then the work is pretty much lost.

DocFrost72

Some good measurements of tanking:

boss never ran away from you,
You used aggressive warhorn whenever you didn't need an ultimate for resource regen or survival,
If you have a decent magicka pool, you used molten weapons every so often to ensure your group was buffed in case their potions ran dry or they weren't paying attention,

MOST IMPORTANTLY: You reacted to the boss well, avoided the red, and the group never took heat from the mobs they shouldn't have.

Those are some things to see if you can accomplish

code65536

How well do you stay alive? Does the healer need to constantly rescue you?

How well do you maintain aggro on the important targets?

How well do you help the DPS do their job, through positioning, control, buffing and debuffing?

Unfortunately, much of the game's 4-person content doesn't offer that much for a tank to really sink their teeth into, and it's quite difficult to gauge the quality of a tank (aside from their ability to stay alive) based on how they do in a normal dungeon or even in most vet dungeons. This is why, as I mentioned in another thread, my nightblade tank is so well-suited for 4-person content, since there's not that much tanking to do, and her ability to off-DPS is more valuable.

There are, however, some pieces of content where good tanking is extremely important. Most notably, vMoL. I've attempted to tank it a few times now (mostly filling in with mediocre results when the usual tanks aren't available), and it is, by far, the most fun content for a tank in the game (particularly the second boss), since there is so much for the tank to do and so much hinges on the tank's performance.

Unfortunately, aside from the "stay alive" part, there aren't many stepping stones for tanking in this game. You mostly have extremes where the tank doesn't matter and where mechanics don't matter and then places like vMoL where one slip by the tank can potentially wipe everything (yea, I suck).

Liofa

- Taunting mobs that does CC .
- Keeping the boss in its place .
- Supporting team with buffs . ( Warhorn , Minor Brutality if you are DK etc. )
- Self-sustain for holding block for long time .
- Never run away if it is not necessary .
- Run away like a chicken when it is necessary .
- Have yourself a DPS setup for certain fights . ( If I see an another tank trying to use Invasion on Inhibitor fight , I am gonna kill someone ^^ Use a bow *** it . )
- Stay away from red areas and take the boss away from them so that DDs can deal damage in peace .
- Trust your healer . If you don't and use heals all the time , you are going to have a bad time .
- Debuff the enemy with Minor Maim ( Heroic Slash )
- Most important , use a damn shield . Everytime I join group finder as a DD , I get rewarded with a ''Tank'' that uses Bombard and Critical Rush .
- Try to make things easier for DDs instead of increasing your own DPS . Believe that if you increase your teammates DPS , it will result in a shorter fight .

Good luck !

Saint314Louis1985

i wouldnt worry about dps. i generally try to keep dot's going and focus on taking as little dmg as possible.

make yourself tanky/sustainable enough that the healer is able to mostly dps and throw you a heal every now and then.

my checklist would look like this for your average dungeon:

did i stay alive?
did i keep aggro of bosses/mini bosses?
did i manage resources well?
did i block when i needed to?
did i keep adds grouped for efficient aoe usage?
did i keep dots up as much as possible?

if you can answer yes to most if not all of those questions, you did a solid tanking job.

player_klaus

hold boss/adds in the dpses ground based aoes!

i cringe every time i drop a meteor -and the tank decided to reposition himself.

this is the only effing thing i like a tank to do.

take the 2nd boss of vet-banished cells for example:
lots of so called "tanks" run throug the whole room, setting it on fire and making the boss LoS through the objects in there.
both magi and stamina dps will say thnx & bb.
just stand in the effing fire and make it stack until the boss got burned down.

your dps and healer will love you, because the fights are so much faster if they are on stationary targets.
if you run a warhorn too, they even might want to sleep you.

while you are learning the dungeons, try to develop a pull-strategy for every encounter which results in the absolute minimal movement possible.
always ask yourself: "where do i have to stand, so my dpses can bomb the most things down asap?"
also, play a dps/heal, so you can learn from the other tanks mistakes.

have fun.

Johngo0036

Thanks for this,

I tanked Vet Spindle for the first time last night and really enjoyed it,
My main focus was on the bosses,
Hold aggro,

I also taloned the adds in one place and use igneous weapons, and even warhorn
However
I feel that i failed as i did lose aggro once on the gargoyle,
and I died once on the red circle thingy... the one you have to move around with.. i accidentally touched dodgeroll... lol

I will tank this evening again using all this information and hopefully i will do better...

NBrookus

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I feel that i failed as i did lose aggro once on the gargoyle,
and I died once on the red circle thingy... the one you have to move around with.. i accidentally touched dodgeroll... lol

Since you are on PC, you may want to use a buff tracker. I use Srendarr -- and put the debuffs & taunts in the low center where the boss will be. It has a timer, so you can see before your taunt wears off. After a while, you won't need the timer any more.

That said, some bosses lose taunt on certain mechanics; those you just have to learn.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Best feedback is from your group, especially the healer. The best feedback I can receive is like when I PUGed a vet dungeon last night. Healer said at the end "man, I hardly had to heal anyone!" That means I'm doing my job in holding boss aggro, mob control, and self healing.

M'Hael

Johngo0036 wrote: »

i accidentally touched dodgeroll... lol

Definitely turn off 'double tap to dodge roll' and bind it to a key instead.

sekou_trayvond

When I'm tanking here's what I'm trying to accomplish to gauge my success:

Keep taunt up, gather up mobs
Keep boss faced away from party
Keep igneous weapons up and obsidian shield
Block and interrupt
Generate ult for war horn

I do that, everyone else can be all the more successful in their role.

Reorx_Holybeard

NBrookus wrote: »

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I feel that i failed as i did lose aggro once on the gargoyle,
and I died once on the red circle thingy... the one you have to move around with.. i accidentally touched dodgeroll... lol

Since you are on PC, you may want to use a buff tracker. I use Srendarr -- and put the debuffs & taunts in the low center where the boss will be. It has a timer, so you can see before your taunt wears off. After a while, you won't need the timer any more.

That said, some bosses lose taunt on certain mechanics; those you just have to learn.

Ahh...thank you! I was looking for what that buff tracker name was and couldn't find it.