if you didnt know why ZOS is nerfing COA, WGT and ICP

Waseem

well.. the answer is simple.
these dungeons are easy mode for elites already, and ultra hard for normal players and/or casuals
and you already know that elites hates to play with normal players/casuals
so its expected to have such reaction from game developer who wants to bring players closer (somewhat)

ZOS employee logs to read zone chats near pledge givers:
"looking for EXP healer,dd,tank for this DLC dungeon, link achievement"
people are so picky on choosing whom to play with, ZOS staff said in many interviews that they want to bring players together
thats why cross-faction grouping is available in the first place.
and nerfing the said dungeons is part of it because it minimizes the gap between "elites" and "normals" thus "elites" will have more
reasons to play such dungeons with random players because the dungeons now are considered easier by the community overall.

random normal/casual players are also have more chances of learning the mechanics and beating the dungeon without relying on other "elites" - apllies to vICP mostly, but still.

another reason may be that IC DLC owners arent showing by statistics that they're doing IC dungeons as other dungeons -but thats just a guess.


also, there are less players doing pledges nowadays than ever before if you havent noticed.
many reasons exist. ranges from the undaunted NPC to the inavailability of Pledges for 2 days for non IC DLC owners.

to ZOS: to bring players closer, trials (especially the 12 man ones) shall never be DLC exclusive. - the DLC barrier has to go

also the players who are left behind because of IC DLC needs some attention (alternative pledges)
and in few months the new trial will make it to the weekly rotation thus leaving non TG DLC owners a whole full week of inability to participate in weekly leaderboard competetions.. thats in reverse of your "bringing players together" !

OldManJim

I know there already is / will be a lot of moaning about nerfing these dungeons, but it will be good for us casual players to get to run them.

I stopped trying to join groups for them because the amount of times people only want experienced players / speed runs etc. It doesn't give us people without experience a chance to run them & to get the experience we need.

I also fear the kick from group tools will only add to the elitism as well.

There's a real nasty streak of elitism in this game, which is unfortunate for us more casual / non-PvP players.

Destyran

You can already 3dps and 1 tank them man they are easy enough. If anything they need to leave it and make gear drops more common because i feel of they nerf it the gear will become a crazy grinds

Waseem

Destyran wrote: »

You can already 3dps and 1 tank them man they are easy enough. If anything they meed to leave it and make gear drops more common because i feel of they merf it the gear will become a crazy grinds

they are easy enough for you and me, but what about the others?
have you tried to do them with random people for pledges in Deshaan?
you could join a group who cant kill first boss.. or if so... stay for 2 hours before finishing 2nd boss.
everyone no matter grouped with who shall be able to finish all the dungeons. the difference should be the time only. 20 mins or 2 hours.. players we dont know will feel better if they finish vICP after 2 hours instead disbanding group after their heavy effort.
and remember, it'll still not a walk in the park...

Sheezabeast

A turd will think its the shiniest turd if it thinks its better than the other turds around them. We assign value to elitism by acknowledging shiny turds instead of seeing everyone the same. That being said, making these dungeons easier will cut down on motivation for end game continuation of play. Said elitist has BoS gear, titles, achievements, what's left for them?

Spearshard

The difficulty for most of the content is all that awful. I think a lot of the elitism stems from the abysmal drops rates. We have to grind the se content over and over and over to get anywhere, that we want to rush through stuff as fast as possible. And after doing the same thing so much without any reward we get bitter.

Destyran

Waseem wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

You can already 3dps and 1 tank them man they are easy enough. If anything they meed to leave it and make gear drops more common because i feel of they merf it the gear will become a crazy grinds

they are easy enough for you and me, but what about the others?
have you tried to do them with random people for pledges in Deshaan?
you could join a group who cant kill first boss.. or if so... stay for 2 hours before finishing 2nd boss.
everyone no matter grouped with who shall be able to finish all the dungeons. the difference should be the time only. 20 mins or 2 hours.. players we dont know will feel better if they finish vICP after 2 hours instead disbanding group after their heavy effort.
and remember, it'll still not a walk in the park...

I have taught pugs how to smash through vwgt the only problem is with vicp and the lack of good tanks. Not many people know how to do it any more. And maybe they could just nerf some of those insane damage numbers

Waseem

Sheezabeast wrote: »

A turd will think its the shiniest turd if it thinks its better than the other turds around them. We assign value to elitism by acknowledging shiny turds instead of seeing everyone the same. That being said, making these dungeons easier will cut down on motivation for end game continuation of play. Said elitist has BoS gear, titles, achievements, what's left for them?

elitists can wear vMoL skin and get vMoL title and find some AFK spot near a wayshrine in heavily contested area
the rest of community can do daily pledges without disbanding at vICP 2nd boss after 2 hours trying and finish the dungeon enjoying the challenge they had.

player_klaus

Waseem wrote: »

also the players who are left behind because of IC DLC needs some attention (alternative pledges)
and in few months the new trial will make it to the weekly rotation thus leaving non TG DLC owners a whole full week of inability to participate in weekly leaderboard competetions.. thats in reverse of your "bringing players together" !

they could just, you know, buy the dlc.

did you ever think about, that the developers need some money to get their check, make new content, keep the servers running and such?

no ESO+? no dlc? parasites.

why cater them?

Waseem

Destyran wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

You can already 3dps and 1 tank them man they are easy enough. If anything they meed to leave it and make gear drops more common because i feel of they merf it the gear will become a crazy grinds

they are easy enough for you and me, but what about the others?
have you tried to do them with random people for pledges in Deshaan?
you could join a group who cant kill first boss.. or if so... stay for 2 hours before finishing 2nd boss.
everyone no matter grouped with who shall be able to finish all the dungeons. the difference should be the time only. 20 mins or 2 hours.. players we dont know will feel better if they finish vICP after 2 hours instead disbanding group after their heavy effort.
and remember, it'll still not a walk in the park...

I have taught pugs how to smash through vwgt the only problem is with vicp and the lack of good tanks. Not many people know how to do it any more. And maybe they could just nerf some of those insane damage numbers

you see, you're one of those good ones who rarely exist nowadays.. its pretty rare to find people who teach "pugs" how to run XYZ dungeon.. -salutes-, ESO needs more players as you. and then, ZOS will not have to bother with nerfing content because all players are friendly and helping each other encounter every obstacle.

Sheezabeast

Waseem wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

A turd will think its the shiniest turd if it thinks its better than the other turds around them. We assign value to elitism by acknowledging shiny turds instead of seeing everyone the same. That being said, making these dungeons easier will cut down on motivation for end game continuation of play. Said elitist has BoS gear, titles, achievements, what's left for them?

elitists can wear vMoL skin and get vMoL title and find some AFK spot near a wayshrine in heavily contested area
the rest of community can do daily pledges without disbanding at vICP 2nd boss after 2 hours trying and finish the dungeon enjoying the challenge they had.

You don't have to sound upset man, I just have mixed feelings on both sides of this issue I of course want to eventually do hard content, but I'd rather I made myself better than it being lowered to my current level of ability. It just makes it sweeter in the end to me is all.

Destyran

People just need to learn mechanics and that a tank is important in those dungeons. If they do this they would wanna increase the drop of gear not nerf it more. The chests already suck. Or maybe make some bosses drop more than two trophies! And while we are here does anyone know exactly how to get the WGT achievement "out of the frying pan" my friends have all received this but i havent and i have tryed what it says but doesnt make sense they dont even know how they got it does it mean i need pinion before she goes to a burn phase?

Waseem

player_klaus wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

also the players who are left behind because of IC DLC needs some attention (alternative pledges)
and in few months the new trial will make it to the weekly rotation thus leaving non TG DLC owners a whole full week of inability to participate in weekly leaderboard competetions.. thats in reverse of your "bringing players together" !

they could just, you know, buy the dlc.

did you ever think about, that the developers need some money to get their check, make new content, keep the servers running and such?

no ESO+? no dlc? parasites.

why cater them?

you are aware that if they dont have the DLC they missing some equipments/content/skill points and what so..
ZOS will not get bankrupted if they make only the 12man trials non DLC exclusive content.

Destyran

Spearshard wrote: »

The difficulty for most of the content is all that awful. I think a lot of the elitism stems from the abysmal drops rates. We have to grind the se content over and over and over to get anywhere, that we want to rush through stuff as fast as possible. And after doing the same thing so much without any reward we get bitter.

This is a pretty good reason i know people who have pretty much lived in these dungeons since drop and still cant get what the want.

Waseem

Destyran wrote: »

People just need to learn mechanics and that a tank is important in those dungeons. If they do this they would wanna increase the drop of gear not nerf it more. The chests already suck. Or maybe make some bosses drop more than two trophies! And while we are here does anyone know exactly how to get the WGT achievement "out of the frying pan" my friends have all received this but i havent and i have tryed what it says but doesnt make sense they dont even know how they got it does it mean i need pinion before she goes to a burn phase?

when boss. say 10%, use the pinion to take aggro, the boss will have like 1m radius fire aoe damage around it, let it burn u a little bit (as achievement says) then you and your group members kill the boss while you still have the aggro, thus, you'll be out of frying pan and receive the achievement

player_klaus

this is not only about the trials. its the thinking in general that i, as a paying customer, can not support.
they miss skillpoints, fine, they are nonfactors.

and btw. we could not sell ***, the last dlc's. ty bop.

Destyran

Waseem wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

People just need to learn mechanics and that a tank is important in those dungeons. If they do this they would wanna increase the drop of gear not nerf it more. The chests already suck. Or maybe make some bosses drop more than two trophies! And while we are here does anyone know exactly how to get the WGT achievement "out of the frying pan" my friends have all received this but i havent and i have tryed what it says but doesnt make sense they dont even know how they got it does it mean i need pinion before she goes to a burn phase?

when boss. say 10%, use the pinion to take aggro, the boss will have like 1m radius fire aoe damage around it, let it burn u a little bit (as achievement says) then you and your group members kill the boss while you still have the aggro, thus, you'll be out of frying pan and receive the achievement

Will do thanks heaps!!

Van_0S

You guys who call yourself Elites should try PvP, its insane challenging.

Destyran

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

You guys who call yourself Elites should try PvP, its insane challenging.

I am not elite i am Australian i can never be good enough to play with the real elites because of my ping rate gives me slightly less dps than them. Same in pvp i go ok in pvp but the constant disconnects and lag and inability to bar swap makes it almost no fun when some one gan dodge roll and hit me with two bow abilitys a 2H ability and two class abilitys ill just stay in pve where at least i can pretend im good

The real elites are people who wont let you play with them unless you run exactly what they want and how they want it you have to be capped you have to know your rotation and have a good bloodspawn time. They are the real elites in this game. But they are very rare alot of people have heard their names but havent played with them. And the achievement linking thing on pc sounds like bad players looking for people to carry them through its not elitism every body just need to teach people what to do and to be honest not many people like to hear that spamming a hardcast frag isnt good and dont take rotation input and rage quit.

LadyNalcarya

OldManJim wrote: »

I know there already is / will be a lot of moaning about nerfing these dungeons, but it will be good for us casual players to get to run them.

I stopped trying to join groups for them because the amount of times people only want experienced players / speed runs etc. It doesn't give us people without experience a chance to run them & to get the experience we need.

I also fear the kick from group tools will only add to the elitism as well.

There's a real nasty streak of elitism in this game, which is unfortunate for us more casual / non-PvP players.

Why dont you want to play casual (normal) version? Vr15 versions of drops wont make any difference if your build is not optimized.
Or find a guild that will teach you the basics?
But of course, ruining them for people that are not afraid of challenge is the best solution. -_-

Merlight

Waseem wrote: »

everyone no matter grouped with who shall be able to finish all the dungeons.

This line of thinking is so flawed. As much as I despise elitism, being casual is no excuse for being bad. If your group refuses to learn the mechanics (and by learn I mean first-hand while playing; studying guides on the net is not necessary) and react to combat events, and instead stand in stupid, hoping whoever is the tank healer will carry them through, then that group is not entitled to success.

Van_0S

Destyran wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

You guys who call yourself Elites should try PvP, its insane challenging.

I am not elite i am Australian i can never be good enough to play with the real elites because of my ping rate gives me slightly less dps than them. Same in pvp i go ok in pvp but the constant disconnects and lag and inability to bar swap makes it almost no fun when some one gan dodge roll and hit me with two bow abilitys a 2H ability and two class abilitys ill just stay in pve where at least i can pretend im good

The real elites are people who wont let you play with them unless you run exactly what they want and how they want it you have to be capped you have to know your rotation and have a good bloodspawn time. They are the real elites in this game. But they are very rare alot of people have heard their names but havent played with them. And the achievement linking thing on pc sounds like bad players looking for people to carry them through its not elitism every body just need to teach people what to do and to be honest not many people like to hear that spamming a hardcast frag isnt good and dont take rotation input and rage quit.

Well, PvP is challenging in my opinion.
I hope they bring arena soon, so you guys can witness good battles against each other rather than a scripted boss.

LadyNalcarya

Merlight wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

everyone no matter grouped with who shall be able to finish all the dungeons.

This line of thinking is so flawed. As much as I despise elitism, being casual is no excuse for being bad. If your group refuses to learn the mechanics (and by learn I mean first-hand while playing; studying guides on the net is not necessary) and react to combat events, and instead stand in stupid, hoping whoever is the tank healer will carry them through, then that group is not entitled to success.

I agree.
I any game, even in the simpliest ones like rock-paper-scissors youre not guaranteed to win. And this is a children game.
Why an mmo with 18+ rating (=made for adults) should be fail-proof? Imo, its an insult for player's intelligence to make the game 100% fail-proof. Even childrens game, like Scooby Doo and whatever, require something from a player.

Clarkieson

This is a mistake, right?

Tell me they are not nerfing these dungeons....

Where is this written down?

aLi3nZ

vwgt seems a lot harder to complete since they removed the stam shard exploit. I tried to run it with people who said they have done it 30+ times and we got Molag kena down to about 3% or so several times before wiping. I was the last alive every time and could keep putting out dps until an Astro spawn so someone was screwing up.

At 25% health stuff always starts going wrong since my groups I have been in can't handle all the Lightning lines together with Astros.

Waseem

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

everyone no matter grouped with who shall be able to finish all the dungeons.

This line of thinking is so flawed. As much as I despise elitism, being casual is no excuse for being bad. If your group refuses to learn the mechanics (and by learn I mean first-hand while playing; studying guides on the net is not necessary) and react to combat events, and instead stand in stupid, hoping whoever is the tank healer will carry them through, then that group is not entitled to success.

I agree.
I any game, even in the simpliest ones like rock-paper-scissors youre not guaranteed to win. And this is a children game.
Why an mmo with 18+ rating (=made for adults) should be fail-proof? Imo, its an insult for player's intelligence to make the game 100% fail-proof. Even childrens game, like Scooby Doo and whatever, require something from a player.

yeah it might sound flawed. but if the players rely on tank/healer to do all the job no way they can finish any dungeon whatsoever. its always dependent on how you look at it. players standing in red cant finish fungal grotto, crypt of hearts or other dungeon and also cant finish ICP, but there are those who can finish the old dungeon but cant finish vICP still e.g. the dps test on flesh atronach or how to properly handing the mechanic of vICP 2nd boss
and no, ICP will not become fail proof as you think. no dungeon in ESO is fail proof.

Lamthalas

I don't see why they need to nerf the vet dungeon for. If vet is too hard, why not just run it in normal and learn the mechanic first before you move up to vet dungeon. This game is already too easy and now they are planning to nerf it? If they nerf it, I'm out.

Destyran

Almost every one has 501 cp if you cant keep yourself alive use a tank and healer but 3 dps seems wayy easier i think they should make three gold keys from book version and 2 with out and 1 on normal and thats it screw decreasing the difficulty!! Its probaby gonna mean decreasinthe already abysmal drop rates. All these players get the game grind their toon get to v16 and expect you to give them gear. We had to get our skills to 50 we had to grind for drops we had to play the game how its intended im sick of all games spoon feeding. How bout wr all get together to make people understand a actual dps rotation teach them how to grind for gear or mats teach mechanics learn to play the game dont just come from pvp expecting to have the deeps its not the same thing. How can you expect to nerf every thing then have content like vmol and vmsa. You might as well just make gear be available to pick at the end of a crap quest. Its a mmo there are supposed to be hard content. The problem is every dungeon in the vannilla game is baby difficulty and we just dont have enough content if we had more stuff to do no one would care.

NativeJoe

Reasons they nerf dungeons....

1. After the elites have their stuff and stop running it... who is then doing the dungeon at this difficulty level. Very few.
2. They need to sell DLC's, and if your not good enough to beat VCOA, why on earth would you buy a DLC that has even harder dungeons in it?
3. The gear may not be relevant for much longer.
4. Rage over lag, connections speeds, low spec computers is abundant...fact is that alot of players are playing this entire game on hardmode, a difficult dungeon may in fact be rendered impossible for people in places around the world.
5. it may not be actually "EASIER"... your character has probably grown, you've gained multiple sets, have money to purchase legendary level equipment/enchants, great potions and food, and have undoubtedly gained CP...plus if you've done VMA, almost everything seems Way easier after this because you've learned how to dodge roll, block, cast mitigation techniques and may even just feel alot more confident in yourself and thus arn't hugging the healer and panicing at every little mechanic.

LadyNalcarya

Waseem wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

everyone no matter grouped with who shall be able to finish all the dungeons.

This line of thinking is so flawed. As much as I despise elitism, being casual is no excuse for being bad. If your group refuses to learn the mechanics (and by learn I mean first-hand while playing; studying guides on the net is not necessary) and react to combat events, and instead stand in stupid, hoping whoever is the tank healer will carry them through, then that group is not entitled to success.

I agree.
I any game, even in the simpliest ones like rock-paper-scissors youre not guaranteed to win. And this is a children game.
Why an mmo with 18+ rating (=made for adults) should be fail-proof? Imo, its an insult for player's intelligence to make the game 100% fail-proof. Even childrens game, like Scooby Doo and whatever, require something from a player.

yeah it might sound flawed. but if the players rely on tank/healer to do all the job no way they can finish any dungeon whatsoever. its always dependent on how you look at it. players standing in red cant finish fungal grotto, crypt of hearts or other dungeon and also cant finish ICP, but there are those who can finish the old dungeon but cant finish vICP still e.g. the dps test on flesh atronach or how to properly handing the mechanic of vICP 2nd boss
and no, ICP will not become fail proof as you think. no dungeon in ESO is fail proof.

Yes, in group content you are dependent on other players. Its a social game after all. If you prefer being a lone hero, there's a ton of solo content and other TES games.
Pvp (situation on the map) also dependent on other people...

LadyNalcarya

NativeJoe wrote: »

2. They need to sell DLC's, and if your not good enough to beat VCOA, why on earth would you buy a DLC that has even harder dungeons in it?

This is a very silly point, sorry.
Its like people complaining about Orsinum containing vMA. Does it make Orsinium a super hardcore dlc?