Dolmens, "Sky Drops", and mixing levels in base game zones, oh and dungeons

tinythinker

More Scaled Public Events Please

Dolmens

If you go to a DLC zone, you get leveled *up* to be a better match for what you find there. But for Alliance Zones, that doesn't make sense to do. Yet many Veteran (soon to be Champion) level players want to do things like dolmens for achievements or to help friends/guild mates. So add a max level for each dolmen, let's say that at a particular anchor it's level 12, and have anyone who enters a radius around the dolmen in which ranged attacks are possible but is over level 12 be scaled *down* to level 12. You keep your same gear, skills, etc, but your damage/healing done goes down and your damage taken goes up to match the mobs and level cap for that event. Higher level players can still help out and get chest rewards (for their true level) and kill generals, but they don't ruin the experience for lower level players.

Sky Drops

The places where you hear a fog horn, a glowing tear in the sky appears, and minions of Molag Bal drop down. Make these events bigger, add more/larger waves, and a final random "boss" type that is tough. Give these events the dolmen treatment above for scaling. Something that 2-3 new/average players (at scale) would need to take 2.5-4 minutes to finish, something visible from a somewhat greater distance, and something with a cool xp/gold reward at the end. Make them interesting and sufficiently different from dolmens, with unique challenges and mechanics, but on par with the difficulty and time investment of dolmens.

World Bosses

Make the ones in the base game a
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/232114/moving-flags-and-new-objects-for-pvp-in-the-cyrodiil-map-supply-and-prisoner-transport-etc


Improve/Add More Instanced Group Content

Add Understaffed Role Bonus, Commendation System, and Mentor System Random Group Dungeons

The bonus for using Group Finder is nice. The bonus for doing a random dungeon is nice. Now go the next step and add a bonus for a role (tank, healer, damage dealer) that is in short supply when someone joins the queue. To discourage people "cheating" the system by signing up for a role they can't do but that they think will be harder to fill, add a reputation system with votes from the other players at the end of the run. People with bad reps get lower queue priority, people with good reps get higher queue priority, and those who run lots and lots of dungeons with the LFG tool and do their role can get high enough positive reps to be mentors.

EDIT: Or just have a vote-kick system and only have a positive rep you can give to a single player at the end of the run rather than a positive and negative rep vote. And again, these are only for group-finder parties that were not pre-made. No gaming the system. More details here.

EDIT #2: I have now struckout the text about queue priority to make it clearer that the idea was replaced by vote-kick, as per the original edit to this post, which was made when I switched to a better idea for commendations/recommendations.

Add Mini-Trials for pre-50

Some 6-8 players trials for fun, practice, and to get players excited to level up for the regular trials.

NewBlacksmurf

O K. I meant to ask tho....how does scale down work? Just stats and spell, weapon, etc?

SirAndy

tinythinker wrote: »

Sky Drops

The official name is "Dark Fissure" or as i like to call them "Mini Anchors" ...

UltimaJoe777

The highest level Dolmens are VR10, but even VR1 Dolmens hold merit to VR16s. After all we are technically still considered Lv50 to the game. As for "Sky Drops" those are just random miniature events. While one may get the Daedra in that spot others could see 2 mages dueling.

SirAndy

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As for "Sky Drops" those are just random miniature events. While one may get the Daedra in that spot others could see 2 mages dueling.

The 2 mages are technically a different event and they actually have their own spawn points.

While these events may appear random in location, the fact is they are not.
The possible spawn points are fixed for each type of event.

tinythinker

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

The highest level Dolmens are VR10, but even VR1 Dolmens hold merit to VR16s. After all we are technically still considered Lv50 to the game.

Which is why it would be nice if they scaled down. A VR 16 hitting a VR1 dolmen is still blowing through it. Make the cap on a VR1 dolmen VR2, maybe VR3. Make them more social and fair to all. It gets boring wiping low level dolmens over and over, and it annoys lower level players.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As for "Sky Drops" those are just random miniature events. While one may get the Daedra in that spot others could see 2 mages dueling.

And I am saying take it out of the random miniature events category and give us more scaled group events in Alliance Zones. The sky drops or dark fissure or whatever don't share spawn points with dueling mages or bandits anyway. They have unique spawn locations.

Higher level players visit zones significantly lower than their own for many reasons. Make some group events they can do where they aren't OP and can be welcomed by lower level players. Group social events like that make MMOs more fun. Other MMOs do this and do it well. ZOS has these assets already and could enhance them to make such event a reality without tons of new code, artwork, etc.

NewBlacksmurf

SirAndy wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As for "Sky Drops" those are just random miniature events. While one may get the Daedra in that spot others could see 2 mages dueling.

The 2 mages are technically a different event and they actually have their own spawn points.

While these events may appear random in location, the fact is they are not.
The possible spawn points are fixed for each type of event.

Yep they aren't random. I make em pop almost on queue doing quests. It's about certain spots that seem to pop every 5 mins. Sometimes annoying tho cause it's little reward

tinythinker

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

As for "Sky Drops" those are just random miniature events. While one may get the Daedra in that spot others could see 2 mages dueling.

The 2 mages are technically a different event and they actually have their own spawn points.

While these events may appear random in location, the fact is they are not.
The possible spawn points are fixed for each type of event.

Yep they aren't random. I make em pop almost on queue doing quests. It's about certain spots that seem to pop every 5 mins. Sometimes annoying tho cause it's little reward

Exactly. Make them a social event, give good rewards. I used to run over every time when I was in Beta, but a month into the game I was like "whatever" and went around.

UltimaJoe777

It's the same concept anyway lol but some bigger random events would indeed be nice. Problem is fitting them into lore...

tinythinker

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It's the same concept anyway lol but some bigger random events would indeed be nice. Problem is fitting them into lore...

What is the same concept? That the dueling mages/bandits with hostage bait are also mini events? OK, but not the point. Or did you mean the way it would work mechanics/code-wise? Just keep the fissures where they are, change the numbers in the code to specify more/bigger waves of invaders, add in some mob with buffed stats as boss, give a nice completion award. Other than that, just use the scaling code in place to scale *down* players in a certain radius of dolmens or fissures and set that radius on the map. Nothing too big or complex. Good to go.

As for lore, the whole Molag Bal invasion, Planemeld, Dark Anchors, and the Dark Fissures are already in the game and cannon. Making the fissures bigger, more menacing, and more social for players isn't a lore issue. The fissures are part of the "use of a few NPC to represent a bigger event" strategy found throughout the game, anyway.

UltimaJoe777

tinythinker wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It's the same concept anyway lol but some bigger random events would indeed be nice. Problem is fitting them into lore...

What is the same concept? That the dueling mages/bandits with hostage bait are also mini events? OK, but not the point. Or did you mean the way it would work mechanics/code-wise? Just keep the fissures where they are, change the numbers in the code to specify more/bigger waves of invaders, add in some mob with buffed stats as boss, give a nice completion award. Other than that, just use the scaling code in place to scale *down* players in a certain radius of dolmens or fissures and set that radius on the map. Nothing too big or complex. Good to go.

As for lore, the whole Molag Bal invasion, Planemeld, Dark Anchors, and the Dark Fissures are already in the game and cannon. Making the fissures bigger, more menacing, and more social for players isn't a lore issue. The fissures are part of the "use of a few NPC to represent a bigger event" strategy found throughout the game, anyway.

Same concept as in they're all random events. Also what I meant by bigger events isn't just what OP suggested but things like city raids and the like. I'd love to see Dragons attack Tamriel or at least Skyrim but it'd break lore so that won't happen...

runagate

I wish that Dark Fissures would pop at endgame but obviously that wouldn't make sense in the storyline after defeating Molag Bal even though 95% of the zones haven't gotten that particular memo.

But something like that kind of nice random event would be nice. Static spawns are a little odd - who hasn't memorized where literally every single one is and can simply gallop at full speed anywhere and avoid them?


As someone with one semi-healer and once every couple of months sort of trying to tank but with 6 damage dealers I must say that the idea of incentivizing our poor healer and tank friends to do us the favor of running so many group events with us is a very nice idea. As would a flag that changes the sort of loot they get if they should so desire.

tinythinker

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

It's the same concept anyway lol but some bigger random events would indeed be nice. Problem is fitting them into lore...

What is the same concept? That the dueling mages/bandits with hostage bait are also mini events? OK, but not the point. Or did you mean the way it would work mechanics/code-wise? Just keep the fissures where they are, change the numbers in the code to specify more/bigger waves of invaders, add in some mob with buffed stats as boss, give a nice completion award. Other than that, just use the scaling code in place to scale *down* players in a certain radius of dolmens or fissures and set that radius on the map. Nothing too big or complex. Good to go.

As for lore, the whole Molag Bal invasion, Planemeld, Dark Anchors, and the Dark Fissures are already in the game and cannon. Making the fissures bigger, more menacing, and more social for players isn't a lore issue. The fissures are part of the "use of a few NPC to represent a bigger event" strategy found throughout the game, anyway.

Same concept as in they're all random events.

And promoting one of them to a bigger, more social random event just makes it bigger and more social. They are more fixed than the other events because they always trigger at the same spot, whereas other mini-events can change from visit to visit. Those other smaller events can stay the same. They feel more like flavor. The fissures just seem like a wasted opportunity. This game is still missing a lot of fun elements, and when there is low hanging fruit that can be plucked to help fill the game out, it makes sense to take it.

tinythinker

runagate wrote: »

But something like that kind of nice random event would be nice. Static spawns are a little odd - who hasn't memorized where literally every single one is and can simply gallop at full speed anywhere and avoid them?

Yeah, a tougher challenge, a decent reward, and maybe some achievements for closing X of them or doing one in each zone of an Alliance would get more people to ride toward them.

runagate wrote: »

As someone with one semi-healer and once every couple of months sort of trying to tank but with 6 damage dealers I must say that the idea of incentivizing our poor healer and tank friends to do us the favor of running so many group events with us is a very nice idea. As would a flag that changes the sort of loot they get if they should so desire.

Yup, another mechanic already working fine in other games that ZOS could add to help get more people to use the LFG tool. The more reasons they can offer for that, the better.

runagate

I love these ideas. I have been having fun eating cake and leveling alts, helping those I find along my way.

tinythinker

runagate wrote: »

I love these ideas. I have been having fun eating cake and leveling alts, helping those I find along my way.

Thanks.

It starts with one person...

dodgehopper_ESO

tinythinker wrote: »

Dolmens

If you go to a DLC zone, you get leveled *up* to be a better match for what you find there. But for Alliance Zones, that doesn't make sense to do. Yet many Veteran (soon to be Champion) level players want to do things like dolmens for achievements or to help friends/guild mates. So add a max level for each dolmen, let's say that at a particular anchor it's level 12, and have anyone who enters a radius around the dolmen in which ranged attacks are possible but is over level 12 be scaled *down* to level 12. You keep your same gear, skills, etc, but your damage/healing done goes down and your damage taken goes up to match the mobs and level cap for that event. Higher level players can still help out and get chest rewards (for their true level) and kill generals, but they don't ruin the experience for lower level players.

Sky Drops

The places where you hear a fog horn, a glowing tear in the sky appears, and minions of Molag Bal drop down. Make these events bigger, add more/larger waves, and a final random "boss" type that is tough. Give these events the dolmen treatment above for scaling. Something that 2-3 new/average players (at scale) would need to take 2.5-4 minutes to finish, something visible from a somewhat greater distance, and something with a cool xp/gold reward at the end. Make them interesting and sufficiently different from dolmens, with unique challenges and mechanics, but on par with the difficulty and time investment of dolmens.

Group Dungeons

The bonus for using Group Finder is nice. The bonus for doing a random dungeon is nice. Now go the next step and add a bonus for a role (tank, healer, damage dealer) that is in short supply when someone joins the queue. To discourage people "cheating" the system by signing up for a role they can't do but that they think will be harder to fill, add a reputation system with votes from the other players at the end of the run. People with bad reps get lower queue priority, people with good reps get higher queue priority, and those who run lots and lots of dungeons with the LFG tool and do their role can get high enough positive reps to be mentors.

I like this idea. It would make it a lot more fun to clear the dolmen boss achievement, that's for certain. I wish this game had a system like City of heroes (and other games) where I could set a lower level character as leader, and follow them around at their level. That way I could enjoy the content with them, without ruining their experience (or mine).

Enodoc

That's a good way for downscaling to be implemented in general actually (@Gidorick). Every POI location has a defined "area" and a defined "level", so you could downscale players who enter that area to that level (or maybe lvl+3).

tinythinker

Enodoc wrote: »

That's a good way for downscaling to be implemented in general actually (@Gidorick). Every POI location has a defined "area" and a defined "level", so you could downscale players who enter that area to that level (or maybe lvl+3).

I wasn't sure if it should be right at some fixed level for the area or slightly above, since they will still have the extra skills and passive unlocked. Some games deactivate skills that are too high for the level match, but given that ESO doesn't have a big hot bar with lots of slots that seems like a bad idea.

Enodoc

tinythinker wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

That's a good way for downscaling to be implemented in general actually (@Gidorick). Every POI location has a defined "area" and a defined "level", so you could downscale players who enter that area to that level (or maybe lvl+3).

I wasn't sure if it should be right at some fixed level for the area or slightly above, since they will still have the extra skills and passive unlocked. Some games deactivate skills that are too high for the level match, but given that ESO doesn't have a big hot bar with lots of slots that seems like a bad idea.

Yeah I don't know what would work best. Sometimes you want to be able to over-level content so that it's a bit easier; constantly forcing people down to the exact level of the content may put some people off (as they would never be able to go above it). I went for +3 as it's where "con" changes from Appropriate to Easy. Similarly, +5 would be an option, as it's the last level you get XP for (due to being immediately below the level where "con" changes from Easy to Trivial).

What would probably be best, if possible, would be the option to choose your own downscaling, a bit like a difficulty slider. Set it to your chosen level modifier on a scale from, for example, -7 to +5 (-7 would scale you 7 levels below the content level, +5 would scale you to 5 levels above).

tinythinker

Enodoc wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

That's a good way for downscaling to be implemented in general actually (@Gidorick). Every POI location has a defined "area" and a defined "level", so you could downscale players who enter that area to that level (or maybe lvl+3).

I wasn't sure if it should be right at some fixed level for the area or slightly above, since they will still have the extra skills and passive unlocked. Some games deactivate skills that are too high for the level match, but given that ESO doesn't have a big hot bar with lots of slots that seems like a bad idea.

Yeah I don't know what would work best. Sometimes you want to be able to over-level content so that it's a bit easier; constantly forcing people down to the exact level of the content may put some people off (as they would never be able to go above it). I went for +3 as it's where "con" changes from Appropriate to Easy. Similarly, +5 would be an option, as it's the last level you get XP for (due to being immediately below the level where "con" changes from Easy to Trivial).

What would probably be best, if possible, would be the option to choose your own downscaling, a bit like a difficulty slider. Set it to your chosen level modifier on a scale from, for example, -7 to +5 (-7 would scale you 7 levels below the content level, +5 would scale you to 5 levels above).

Well, +3 sounds like a good fit since you get to keep your skills. The problem with a slider is that ZOS wants to keep UI elements and pop-ups to a minimum. If you simply went to +3 whatever the level of the area was and got to keep your skills/passives, you would still get the boost from being higher level but not be stupidly over-powered for the content. The reason I prefer to have only a radius of level-matching around public events (dark anchors, expanded dark fissures, other ideas not yet mentioned) is so that in other content of that zone people could still easily over-level if they are struggling. It would only affect public events and make sure higher level players don't ruin them for lower level players but still let both groups get together and have fun/earn achievements.

Rune_Relic

Nice ideas

tinythinker

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Nice ideas

Thanks. Not sure if they would work in practice, or if ZOS has any interest, but we need more events that everyone can get into. I know that there are a few, but they are in DLC. Having them in the base-game would be great, especially if gear drops leveled to your true level. Even if players and ZOS don't like these versions of public events, I do hope more are added. They really can create some interesting and fun interactions. I have another type of event for PvP, the traveling flag, where an Alliance supply convoy is going from A to B, and enemy players can get AP for capturing it and friendly players for defending it, but again, who knows if such public events that are open to all will really ever come to any part of the base game.

stojekarcub18_ESO

Speaking of random events like dark fissures, 2 mages fighting, and the lot...what's with the guy that summons Daedra, then freaks out, and once you kill them he's all thankful and relieved. Then he ports away... He seems to be intentionally summoning Daedra, what did he think would appear?!

tinythinker

stojekarcub18_ESO wrote: »

Speaking of random events like dark fissures, 2 mages fighting, and the lot...what's with the guy that summons Daedra, then freaks out, and once you kill them he's all thankful and relieved. Then he ports away... He seems to be intentionally summoning Daedra, what did he think would appear?!

I've wondered that for over two years...

Enodoc

stojekarcub18_ESO wrote: »

Speaking of random events like dark fissures, 2 mages fighting, and the lot...what's with the guy that summons Daedra, then freaks out, and once you kill them he's all thankful and relieved. Then he ports away... He seems to be intentionally summoning Daedra, what did he think would appear?!

@stojekarcub18_ESO Generally, when summoning daedra, the summoner should have enough willpower to be able to successfully 'bind' the summoned creature. A successfully bound daedra should submit itself to the will of the summoner and do their bidding for as long as the conjuration lasts. An unbound summoned daedra is as hostile as you would find them in Oblivion, and that appears to be what happens in this situation. The summoner successfully summons a daedra, but does not have the willpower to bind it, so it remains unbound and therefore tries to kill the summoner until you step in to save them.