Infused vs devines dps loss

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Hey everyone,

As everyone knows by now the new vendor that sells helms and shoulders will only sell them with infused trait. This brings up a important question.

"How much dps loss will occur for pve dps min maxers if they have 5 devines and 2 infused (because of new helm and shoulder vendor) compared to someone with 7 devines?"

It is proven that the min max best trait set up is x7 devines all parts for pve dps. I am very interested to know what the dps loss will be however with 5/2.

Please refrain from turning this into a debate about if the vendor is bad or good and please do not comment with just your "opinion". This thread is looking for answers from a mathematical min max side of things and fact.

Thanks everyone for your time in advanced and I hope to know by the end of this thread the mathematical dps loss of 5/2 builds compared to 7/7. Below I will link my current build set up.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-magicka-dps-by-iwm/

FriedEggSandwich

First thing that sprigs to mind is why wouldn't such a dedicated pve'r farm their monster helms the old-fashioned way and get the traits they want?

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

First thing that sprigs to mind is why wouldn't such a dedicated pve'r farm their monster helms the old-fashioned way and get the traits they want?

Not on topic and leading to a debate of if the vendor is wrong or right to have in the game.

FriedEggSandwich

The only scenario 2 pieces of divines would make a noticeable difference to dps would be the old TBS with shadow and thief setup, but afaik nobody runs that in pve, apparently 5x julianos is more dps.

FriedEggSandwich

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

First thing that sprigs to mind is why wouldn't such a dedicated pve'r farm their monster helms the old-fashioned way and get the traits they want?

Not on topic and leading to a debate of if the vendor is wrong or right to have in the game.

It's definitely on topic, but yeah it was the first thing that sprang to mind, I expanded slightly.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

The only scenario 2 pieces of divines would make a noticeable difference to dps would be the old TBS with shadow and thief setup, but afaik nobody runs that in pve, apparently 5x julianos is more dps.

Currently TBS and scathing is the max dps for Magicka NB. So thats a really relevant question.

For those who have not got scathing in all devines the TBS x5 devines set up is the best to go with (for mage nb). So the question is important and I hope I get a answer.

Refuse2GrowUp

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

First thing that sprigs to mind is why wouldn't such a dedicated pve'r farm their monster helms the old-fashioned way and get the traits they want?

Valid, although you cannot farm shoulders. We are all completely at the mercy of the RNG Deities and I run dailies on multiple toons every day and still have yet to get Kena divine shoulders (after what has to be well in excess of over a thousand chests opened).

From a min/max perspective, although certainly still not ideal, Infused on chest, legs, helm, and shield are much more tolerable than on shoulders or other small armor pieces.

Sorry @OP, I don't have math for ya. I will follow the thread to see what info the mathmeticians chime in with.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

First thing that sprigs to mind is why wouldn't such a dedicated pve'r farm their monster helms the old-fashioned way and get the traits they want?

Valid, although you cannot farm shoulders. We are all completely at the mercy of the RNG Deities and I run dailies on multiple toons every day and still have yet to get Kena divine shoulders (after what has to be well in excess of over a thousand chests opened).

From a min/max perspective, although certainly still not ideal, Infused on chest, legs, helm, and shield are much more tolerable than on shoulders or other small armor pieces.

Sorry @OP, I don't have math for ya. I will follow the thread to see what info the mathmeticians chime in with.

Np thanks anyways man.

code65536

See the section titled "Divines and Infused".

Condensed version: The Thief and Shadow mundus stones were substantially buffed in the Imperial City update. If you are using one of these two mundus stones, you should go all-divines. And for PvE DPS, you should use one of these two stones. (See the section titled "Mundus stone: Apprentice, Mage, Thief and Shadow".) In PvP, the picture is a lot muddier: crit is less important, since you cannot crit shields and most experienced PvPers wear impen gear.

Also, for non-DPS roles, such as healers (who are usually using Atronach) or tanks (who usually use a wide variety of stones), the effects of the other stones are not as OP as those of Thief/Shadow, and the benefit of Divines is much less. E.g., if you're a tank using the stone that gives you max health, you'll be better off with infused to boost your armor's health enchantment than to use divines to boost the health from the mundus.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

code65536 wrote: »

See the section titled "Divines and Infused".

Condensed version: The Thief and Shadow mundus stones were substantially buffed in the Imperial City update. If you are using one of these two mundus stones, you should go all-divines. And for PvE DPS, you should use one of these two stones. (See the section titled "Mundus stone: Apprentice, Mage, Thief and Shadow".) In PvP, the picture is a lot muddier: crit is a lot less important, since you cannot crit shields and most experienced PvPers wear impen gear.

Also, for non-DPS roles, such as healers (who are usually using Atronach) or tanks (who usually use a wide variety of stones), the stone effects are not as OP as Thief/Shadow, and the benefit of Divines is much less. E.g., if you're a tank using the stone that gives you max health, you'll be better off with Infused to boost your health enchantment than to use divines to boost the health from the mundus.

Ofc.

However the question is what would be the avg dps loss of 5 infused 2 devines vs 7 devines since the new vendor provides only infused traits on the helm and shoulders not what traits should be used. Its pretty standard knowledge now that pve dps is full devines if possible.

Refuse2GrowUp

I know that TBS vs Julianos is typically within a couple percent of each other in terms of min/max dmg output. A substantial determining factor is whether you are a trials build or a dungeon build as Trials builds will often get a bit more out of TBS than a dungeon build would since, unfortunately, many dungeon groups are not running the team buffs and utility that Trials groups would be...dungeon groups are more focused on every role contributing their own DPS. Just something to keep in mind.

code65536

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

However the question is what would be the avg dps loss of 5 infused 2 devines vs 7 devines since the new vendor provides only infused traits on the helm and shoulders not what traits should be used. Its pretty standard knowledge now that pve dps is full devines if possible.

Use his spreadsheet and find out.

Refuse2GrowUp

A good source of info, tho more specific to Sorcs...tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pts-2-1-2-sorcerer-arithmagic/

Edit: Lol, just noticed @code65536 beat me to linking this

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

I know that TBS vs Julianos is typically within a couple percent of each other in terms of min/max dmg output. A substantial determining factor is whether you are a trials build or a dungeon build as Trials builds will often get a bit more out of TBS than a dungeon build would since, unfortunately, many dungeon groups are not running the team buffs and utility that Trials groups would be...dungeon groups are more focused on every role contributing their own DPS. Just something to keep in mind.

very true, with nb its more inclined to go TBS if you cant get scathing.

Refuse2GrowUp

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

I know that TBS vs Julianos is typically within a couple percent of each other in terms of min/max dmg output. A substantial determining factor is whether you are a trials build or a dungeon build as Trials builds will often get a bit more out of TBS than a dungeon build would since, unfortunately, many dungeon groups are not running the team buffs and utility that Trials groups would be...dungeon groups are more focused on every role contributing their own DPS. Just something to keep in mind.

very true, with nb its more inclined to go TBS if you cant get scathing.

I have a feeling you are using @Mashinate's build. Mashinate is min/max'd for Trials. You will be just fine with Julianos if you are doing more dungeons than Trials or if your trials group doesn't have a good warhorn rotation. Plus, Julianos will be more forgiving if you don't have all divines gear. If you go Julianos, use the link provided above to determine if you should go Thief or Shadow mundus

Hortator Indoril Nerevar

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

I know that TBS vs Julianos is typically within a couple percent of each other in terms of min/max dmg output. A substantial determining factor is whether you are a trials build or a dungeon build as Trials builds will often get a bit more out of TBS than a dungeon build would since, unfortunately, many dungeon groups are not running the team buffs and utility that Trials groups would be...dungeon groups are more focused on every role contributing their own DPS. Just something to keep in mind.

very true, with nb its more inclined to go TBS if you cant get scathing.

I have a feeling you are using @Mashinate's build. Mashinate is min/max'd for Trials. You will be just fine with Julianos if you are doing more dungeons than Trials or if your trials group doesn't have a good warhorn rotation. Plus, Julianos will be more forgiving if you don't have all divines gear. If you go Julianos, use the link provided above to determine if you should go Thief or Shadow mundus

Yea he pulls like 30-40k on dungeon boss fights like vwgt and stuff no still thinking ill roll that but you are typically right when with a less trained group. I personally already have 1 of the monster parts devine and will get the second devines before the part is sold in the store anyways but I want to have more information about min maxing out there since this game lacks it.