Forward Camps Have Made The Game Worse

danno8

heystreethawk wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

First off : Meta - please stop saying it. I don't think you are all even aware of what it means:

Thank you for saying this. As someone who speaks English and listens to other people speaking English, it tries me up a gd wall.

Edit: don't worry, the auto-correct function on my phone renders my opinion invalid.

Words mean what we want them to mean, and the English language is in a constant state of growth and change.

staracino_ESO

I don't like that they can be placed on top of resource towers... I would have thought they would have removed that before reintroducing them, but since they didn't I assume they are fine with it. Shame because that's the only time I don't like them.

Resource towers only have 1 way to get inside, where as keep corner towers have 3.

HeroOfNone

I think forward camps need to have a lingering area after its destroyed that no one can set another one down. Maybe 5 to 10 minutes the circle will remain after its used up/destroyed.

On the other had forward camps are AP expensive. I rarely see someone earn back the AP they lost with a camp. If people keep wasting them in terrible positions they won't have any AP pretty soon.

GRxKnight

HeroOfNone wrote: »

I think forward camps need to have a lingering area after its destroyed that no one can set another one down. Maybe 5 to 10 minutes the circle will remain after its used up/destroyed.

On the other had forward camps are AP expensive. I rarely see someone earn back the AP they lost with a camp. If people keep wasting them in terrible positions they won't have any AP pretty soon.

Then we might be able to get AP gear since everyone is burning it on camps...It's been wroble's plan all along

timidobserver

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
1. Turn forward camps into a rare get out of jail free card rather than a victory by attrition tool. Increase the usage cooldown to 5-10 minutes or more.
2. Alternatively, make the cooldown increase based on how often you use a camp in a period of time. Number 1 is probably easier to code since it should just be a variable change.

Sirvandal

Burn them down, problem solved! :O)

heystreethawk

danno8 wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

First off : Meta - please stop saying it. I don't think you are all even aware of what it means:

Thank you for saying this. As someone who speaks English and listens to other people speaking English, it tries me up a gd wall.

Edit: don't worry, the auto-correct function on my phone renders my opinion invalid.

Words mean what we want them to mean, and the English language is in a constant state of growth and change.

Yes, I agree. This change is ugly and cacophonous, however, like a man flailing wildly at a piano while fending off a swarm of furious bees. Perhaps the man is Nicolas Cage; perhaps he is only a man.

Sunburnt_Penguin

Correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't tried forward camps yet, but wouldn't they be good for duelling?

Shunravi

heystreethawk wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

First off : Meta - please stop saying it. I don't think you are all even aware of what it means:

Thank you for saying this. As someone who speaks English and listens to other people speaking English, it tries me up a gd wall.

Edit: don't worry, the auto-correct function on my phone renders my opinion invalid.

Words mean what we want them to mean, and the English language is in a constant state of growth and change.

Yes, I agree. This change is ugly and cacophonous, however, like a man flailing wildly at a piano while fending off a swarm of furious bees. Perhaps the man is Nicolas Cage; perhaps he is only a man.

Change? What change? Its hardly a new term in gaming, or the world in general.

Meta is a prefix in english derived from Greek meaning 'beyond, with, across, after.' And it is used in context without a qualifier to describe anything beyond, with, across, or after. The literary term you refer to is an adjective that means 'self referential' or 'with' and 'beyond.'

Meta refers to metagame https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming.

OtarTheMad

Forward camps are a needed part of ESO PvP. It adds to defenses and offenses, makes everyone think and use strategy. Before, when camps were gone, it was just barrier up and ult/aoe bomb the keep and you win... defending was not fun, often frustrating and almost pointless. With camps, they are fun and fights can go either way.

The lag is because of the lack of servers to play on, bottom line. Guilds have NO choice in campaigns anymore so both are laggy, NOTHING to do with camps. If you don't see that both campaigns would be laggy even without camps then you're lying to yourself and not seeing the whole picture in front of you. I think that players are tired of the lag and grasping at the newest thing introduced and blaming it, when it's really the lack of servers. During prime time Haderus and Trueflame are locked and often times have que's, we need more servers so guilds spread out and the server isn't so packed.

zyk

FCs are far from required. You may recall we functioned without them for over a year.

Derra

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

2 minutes is too fast of a respawn penalty...it needs to be higher like 5 or 10 minutes imo...groups like Haxus, VE, Vic will all fight around that timer...if we just respawned at a camp, kite until 2 minutes or opponent over extends...this is the meta we've been given

The funny thing is; you'd be surprised what groups will do to stay within a powerful timer.

During early days of DAOC...Albs had EXTREMELY powerful Realm Rank abilities...So powerful that popping them would usually be a 100% chance to win the fight...The Alb 8 mans that ran would run out...Pop their Realm Rank abilities on another 8 man..then run back to the Port Keep after the fight..and wait the 15-20 Minutes for them to come back up.

Can you add something to the discussion without bringing up DAOC? @Ghost-Shot

No, one can not simply not mention DAOC.

There is a certain gif coming to mind when i see you two guys posting. I´m pretty sure posting it would go against the forum rules so all i´ll say is: Keep on stroking.

Soris

I'll quote myself from the other thread. Because why not.

Soris wrote: »

From my experience in this patch(though not much) FCs allowed small scale fights in between keeps. How? Zergs mostly deploy in camps and those who were too late to respawn in time, have to run. And they are not much, 10 people at most at a time. So you can fight fair with your small group in even numbers. Or solo.. It's much easier to find fair fights now. It divides the zerg. So I like it.

LarsS

While I like most of the changes done, I vote for the removal of the forward camps. We are playing on Trueflame EU PC, and my experience is that forward camps has focused the battle on a few points which tends to increase lag. The other changes like nerfing barrier would have been enough to improve the fights.

TequilaFire

FC are not the problem on PS4 EP is just vastly outnumbered and the the good EP have left or joined AD and DC because of their huge numbers.

I remember a time on PC when DC was crying for numbers on PC, not so on console.

Just have to keep slugging. lol

Hope all the numbers will die down when the PvE peeps unlock their alliance war skills they wanted.

OtarTheMad

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't tried forward camps yet, but wouldn't they be good for duelling?

A lot of players don't look at the positives, they only see that we have more lag now and FCs are back. They immediately blame the camps when in reality the lag would be there regardless because guilds simply don't have choices.

FCs are good for PvP and it's future, lag will be there with or without them. I have been in plenty of battles lately both with and without FCs and have seen lag in both situations... none worse than the other.

Maximus_Mudcrab

I hate forward camps. Totally ruined PVP even more. Allows wreckless play and more people set it up just to farm AP rather than actually working to take keeps. And good luck trying to take a keep with a forward camp set up and seige on the top.

K4RMA

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

All I can think of at this point, whether forward camps, siege, VD, prox det, rapids nerf ...

Basically Forward Camps are the problem right now...Just like last time when they were introduced.

You listing Siege/VD/Prox Det/Rapids nerf as reasons for any of the things he listed is silly...You basically just listed things that directly impact your zerg.

salty?

Zabus

I will keep saying this over and over, the game feels so much more alive with camps back. I'm honestly not seeing the correlation between FCs and the lag. Sure they keep fights going on for a long time, but didn't kagrenac's do the same thing last patch? People were just endless rezzing... The only thing I can see causing the lag is the fact that the software continues to be absolute *** and we now have 1 campaign less which makes for a higher concentration of players on the ones left over.

Zheg

Zabus wrote: »

I will keep saying this over and over, the game feels so much more alive with camps back. I'm honestly not seeing the correlation between FCs and the lag. Sure they keep fights going on for a long time, but didn't kagrenac's do the same thing last patch? People were just endless rezzing... The only thing I can see causing the lag is the fact that the software continues to be absolute *** and we now have 1 campaign less which makes for a higher concentration of players on the ones left over.

Forward camps certainly do help make fights larger than they otherwise would have been, and that in turn will increase the lag.

I'd much prefer if being rezzed/using a forward camp reduced your stats, particularly if done so multiple times in a short window. It's far too easy for entire groups to rez up after a wipe and immediately become a threat again. If you're going to jump back in the fray right after dying, you should be weakened imo. The rez sickness issue has been talked about over and over again though...

KenaPKK

Zabus wrote: »

I will keep saying this over and over, the game feels so much more alive with camps back. I'm honestly not seeing the correlation between FCs and the lag. Sure they keep fights going on for a long time, but didn't kagrenac's do the same thing last patch? People were just endless rezzing... The only thing I can see causing the lag is the fact that the software continues to be absolute *** and we now have 1 campaign less which makes for a higher concentration of players on the ones left over.

Zavbro knows what's up.

OtarTheMad

Maximus_Mudcrab wrote: »

I hate forward camps. Totally ruined PVP even more. Allows wreckless play and more people set it up just to farm AP rather than actually working to take keeps. And good luck trying to take a keep with a forward camp set up and seige on the top.

Players were AP farming without camps, always will AP farm. AP farming has always been a huge thing in PvP and taking a keep is possible, you just have to step up the strategy like having some magblades running around burning camps and stuff.

You can't just run into a keep spamming an AOE/win button and get a keep now, you kind of have to plan. You are entitled to your opinion obviously and I respect that but I just think the negatives you point out either have always been in the game or are easily countered.

@Zabus, I wish I could Agree with your comment more than once lol, so true.

ssewallb14_ESO

I don't like them. Sloppy play? Who cares res at the camp. Nice coordinated wipe of an enemy zerg while outnumbered? Doesn't matter they'll be back and keep pushing until they get through. And no one wants to push the enemy camp because everyone wants their D tick. This makes for mindless keep battles that lag the server and never end.

At least change how the D tick works so people will actually push out and burn the camps.

ub17_ESO

I'm happy forward camps are back. I like the extended battles!

Elong

Zheg wrote: »

Zabus wrote: »

I will keep saying this over and over, the game feels so much more alive with camps back. I'm honestly not seeing the correlation between FCs and the lag. Sure they keep fights going on for a long time, but didn't kagrenac's do the same thing last patch? People were just endless rezzing... The only thing I can see causing the lag is the fact that the software continues to be absolute *** and we now have 1 campaign less which makes for a higher concentration of players on the ones left over.

Forward camps certainly do help make fights larger than they otherwise would have been, and that in turn will increase the lag.

I'd much prefer if being rezzed/using a forward camp reduced your stats, particularly if done so multiple times in a short window. It's far too easy for entire groups to rez up after a wipe and immediately become a threat again. If you're going to jump back in the fray right after dying, you should be weakened imo. The rez sickness issue has been talked about over and over again though...

You guys do get a weakness though, your Phoenix is on cooldown :P

Zheg

Elong wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Zabus wrote: »

I will keep saying this over and over, the game feels so much more alive with camps back. I'm honestly not seeing the correlation between FCs and the lag. Sure they keep fights going on for a long time, but didn't kagrenac's do the same thing last patch? People were just endless rezzing... The only thing I can see causing the lag is the fact that the software continues to be absolute *** and we now have 1 campaign less which makes for a higher concentration of players on the ones left over.

Forward camps certainly do help make fights larger than they otherwise would have been, and that in turn will increase the lag.

I'd much prefer if being rezzed/using a forward camp reduced your stats, particularly if done so multiple times in a short window. It's far too easy for entire groups to rez up after a wipe and immediately become a threat again. If you're going to jump back in the fray right after dying, you should be weakened imo. The rez sickness issue has been talked about over and over again though...

You guys do get a weakness though, your Phoenix is on cooldown :P

If I'm being perfectly honest, I very rarely die on my templar. The few times we need to suicide to react to something on the map I almost always forget to take off a phoenix piece when I jump onto a resource flag. 80% of the time if my phoenix proc goes off I'm going to die anyway because I'm being mowed down by far larger numbers. 15% of the time my phoenix proc goes off because there was a cliff while I was riding my guar... XD

I find it dumb though that you can wipe a group, say "clean em up, kill the last few still alive, they're done", and then 15 seconds later the entire group is back 30m away with prox det circles ready to bomb. In fact, during some of those fights, I'd wager the survivors have lower stats (particularly stamina in this meta) than the newly rezzed group that is ready to bomb again but with full stats. It's silly, and if ww2 actually pvp'd in this game, and actually had a modicum of competency, they'd realize that too.

Iyas

Camps have to go. The server can't handle the constant fighting.

But zos won't remove the camps so I had to leave. My guild and I are not willing to pay anymore for the laggy mess.

GRxKnight

Not sure why people are blaming camps for this games terrible pvp performance...it's like they forgot it was like this in the last patch

zyk

GRxKnight wrote: »

Not sure why people are blaming camps for this games terrible pvp performance...it's like they forgot it was like this in the last patch

Because they've made the problem much worse. Longer fights with more numbers = longer periods of grotesque lag.

eliisra

The old camps where so much better, even if they caused(different) problems to.

But you could choose to respawn all over the map and get away from the lag using camps(or avoiding horse sim cuz lazybum). If the main fights became unbearably laggy I would spawn at another camp, like half a dozen to choose from, and check if those fights was less zergy and more fun. That was possibly to good to be true I guess lol.

Now everyone pops back up where they died and jumps back in. No one spawns at other locations, so no wonder the lag gets worse because of forward camps.