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Forward Camps Have Made The Game Worse
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GRxKnight✭✭✭✭✭
So what was a group with 7+ templars all running kags and all magicka users all running kags? Those fights were just as bad. hardly see how there's any difference between these two metas other than an ap purchaseMember of Victorem, RÁGE ; Decibel Alumni (RIP)
Kalista Schefer: VR16 AD Sorcerer; Alliance Rank 22
Noxus-Katarina: VR16 AD NB; Alliance Rank 30
Grxknight: VR16 AD DK; Alliance Rank 16
Lorelie Aedel: VR16 AD Templar; Alliance Rank 80 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »First off : Meta - please stop saying it. I don't think you are all even aware of what it means:
met·a
ˈmedə/
noun
noun: meta; plural noun: metas
1.
short for meta key.
adjectiveUS
adjective: meta
1.
(of a creative work) referring to itself or to the conventions of its genre; self-referential.
meta
A term, especially in art, used to characterize something that is characteristically self-referential.
"So I just saw this film about these people making a movie, and the movie they were making was about the film industry..."
"Dude, that's so meta. Stop before my brain explodes."
Second, camps are not the problem - and a 2 minute window may need to be examined. The problem is the method of rewarding the ticks in the game. Everyone goes to a keep or outpost under siege because they want to get the "tick" after 60 seconds of no death around the resource if they still own it.
Now, if you make the timer 3 minutes on rez - this will just encourage tower humping for 2.5 minutes and then out to engage again.
The real issue - that needs to be dealt with somehow - is the way these ticks are handed out. There is no timer you can put on camps that works - but 2 minutes does seem a bit low.
By the way - the word you guys want to use is convention. The current convention is magicka - the current convention is rez at the camp wait 90 seconds then go engage and try to wipe the zerg again.
That's so meta bro.
Stop trying to make meta happen. It's not going to happen.
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Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
So what was a group with 7+ templars all running kags and all magicka users all running kags? Those fights were just as bad. hardly see how there's any difference between these two metas other than an ap purchase
As eyeroll worthy as those kags fights were (as someone that ran kags...), you could at least slow the entire group's reappearance. You could leave behind a few people to cover an area that had a condensed amount of bodies to delay/stop rezzes. You could prioritize a dead rez templar or raid lead from being rezzed. Now, when a group wipes, as long as they had someone off in the wings, or someone that can get away, with everyone in TS literally all it takes is a second for 20 people to instantly pop back up, with full stats, and in one spot ready to bomb again. The end result is indeed the same, but the kags meta let you delay a group's reappearance if you sacrificed a few dps to harass rezzers.0 -
GRxKnight✭✭✭✭✭
So what was a group with 7+ templars all running kags and all magicka users all running kags? Those fights were just as bad. hardly see how there's any difference between these two metas other than an ap purchase
As eyeroll worthy as those kags fights were (as someone that ran kags...), you could at least slow the entire group's reappearance. You could leave behind a few people to cover an area that had a condensed amount of bodies to delay/stop rezzes. You could prioritize a dead rez templar or raid lead from being rezzed. Now, when a group wipes, as long as they had someone off in the wings, or someone that can get away, with everyone in TS literally all it takes is a second for 20 people to instantly pop back up, with full stats, and in one spot ready to bomb again. The end result is indeed the same, but the kags meta let you delay a group's reappearance if you sacrificed a few dps to harass rezzers.
True there was easier counter play back then but to say that camps cause lag is, imo, just silly...there is still counter play to the camp spam, it's just harder to accomplish...I'll stick to what I've been saying in that the camp res sickness or cooldown or whatever you want to call it needs to be longer than 5 minutes...most of the time after you res you're regrouping, repositioning, generating ultimate again, and before you engage you've already burned a minute off of the cooldown...make it 5 minutes and then i think it's good for the time being and evaluate again at a later date.
Now about adjusting the timer/how d ticks are awarded......Member of Victorem, RÁGE ; Decibel Alumni (RIP)
Kalista Schefer: VR16 AD Sorcerer; Alliance Rank 22
Noxus-Katarina: VR16 AD NB; Alliance Rank 30
Grxknight: VR16 AD DK; Alliance Rank 16
Lorelie Aedel: VR16 AD Templar; Alliance Rank 80 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
So what was a group with 7+ templars all running kags and all magicka users all running kags? Those fights were just as bad. hardly see how there's any difference between these two metas other than an ap purchase
As eyeroll worthy as those kags fights were (as someone that ran kags...), you could at least slow the entire group's reappearance. You could leave behind a few people to cover an area that had a condensed amount of bodies to delay/stop rezzes. You could prioritize a dead rez templar or raid lead from being rezzed. Now, when a group wipes, as long as they had someone off in the wings, or someone that can get away, with everyone in TS literally all it takes is a second for 20 people to instantly pop back up, with full stats, and in one spot ready to bomb again. The end result is indeed the same, but the kags meta let you delay a group's reappearance if you sacrificed a few dps to harass rezzers.
True there was easier counter play back then but to say that camps cause lag is, imo, just silly...there is still counter play to the camp spam, it's just harder to accomplish...I'll stick to what I've been saying in that the camp res sickness or cooldown or whatever you want to call it needs to be longer than 5 minutes...most of the time after you res you're regrouping, repositioning, generating ultimate again, and before you engage you've already burned a minute off of the cooldown...make it 5 minutes and then i think it's good for the time being and evaluate again at a later date.
Now about adjusting the timer/how d ticks are awarded......
Increasing the timer is something we've largely agreed to in our TS as well, 2 minutes is way too short for smart players. The reason why FCs are being blamed for contributing to lag is because the meta is now mostly alliance v alliance at a single objective. Previously when you had that many people in one spot, at least if you were able to get a good bomb off you could cut down on the bodies. Now, a good bomb just means those people are 50m away rezzed at a forward camp, and you're at half or lower stam being bombard spammed because you actually survived. In previous patches you could clear off stray pugs and people that overextended to whittle away at numbers before going in for your bomb, but forward camps allow people like that - people that SHOULD be dead because they made poor choices, to continually be in the fight.
You remember last patch, when 2 pugs followed your group and died away from you, they realized they most likely weren't being rezzed and would respawn. Now they're just that many more bodies being added to the fight.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a love-hate relationship with forward camps. I like to use them offensively but hate to see people using them in every single corner / tower of a keep and to play cat and mouse with nightblades running from one side to the other to drop a new one.
I think that forward camps should be placed only outside of the radius of a keep, friendly or not. As much as I agree that keeps were really easy to take prior TG, I think they are abit too hard to take now. Don't get me wrong, some DC guilds still take keeps quite easily against large numbers but this has nothing to do with the forward camps system. It is strictly a problem of lack of knowledges of game mechanics to counter them and AOE caps which favor them largely.
I completely agree. I was thinking about that the other day. outside radius. Let the scouts have purpose to kill reinforcements and make them travel back to keep.
I was thinking only on friendly resources for both sides.
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