Max resources = max damage ??

Bashev

Maybe. Please explain.

It is not so simple. If the max pool does not increase damage then ppl will stack recovery and spell or weapon damage . The big problem is that pools increase offensive stats and defensive stats at the same time.

Ffastyl

Maybe. Please explain.

I have to vote Yes under the current system but if it were modified then No. Hence maybe.

A couple ways that came to mind were changing Weapon and Spell Damage to affect melee (<7m) and ranged abilities respectively, renaming them appropriately to reduce confusion. In that type of system, removing the scaling from resources makes less sense since it is the only stat that increases strictly Stamina/Magicka based abilities. By leaving resource scaling in there are then 4 focuses to specialize in: Stamina Melee, Magicka Melee, Stamina Ranged and Magicka Ranged --as opposed to the current 2 focuses: Stamina/Weapon and Magicka/Spell. Hybridizing also not only becomes viable but there are multiple ways to hybridize: Stamina/Magicka, Melee/Ranged and Jack-of-All-Trades. For example, pumping everything into what is now Weapon Damage will improve all of your melee attacks, Stamina and Magicka based, forming a kind of spellsword. Alternatively pumping everything into Max Magicka will improve all Magicka skills, both melee and ranged types, creating a battlemage. This also creates a parity between ranges as those who are strong at a distance are weak in melee and vice versa.

Or abilities could scale with Attribute Points and Damage stats so it kind of scales with resources but not really. Less developed thought than the first.

What I can universally say YES to is reducing the imbalancing high Max and Damage stats resulting in insane DPS and insane HPS. Those of us who played ESO 2 years ago know Heavy Armor was good back then and it has gone through no changes since -- DPS/HPS has changed. So, short of changing how Damage and Max interact, resources should be decoupled from ability power.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Yes... Damage should no longer scale off max resources.

Ffastyl wrote: »

I have to vote Yes under the current system but if it were modified then No. Hence maybe.

A couple ways that came to mind were changing Weapon and Spell Damage to affect melee (<7m) and ranged abilities respectively, renaming them appropriately to reduce confusion. In that type of system, removing the scaling from resources makes less sense since it is the only stat that increases strictly Stamina/Magicka based abilities. By leaving resource scaling in there are then 4 focuses to specialize in: Stamina Melee, Magicka Melee, Stamina Ranged and Magicka Ranged --as opposed to the current 2 focuses: Stamina/Weapon and Magicka/Spell. Hybridizing also not only becomes viable but there are multiple ways to hybridize: Stamina/Magicka, Melee/Ranged and Jack-of-All-Trades. For example, pumping everything into what is now Weapon Damage will improve all of your melee attacks, Stamina and Magicka based, forming a kind of spellsword. Alternatively pumping everything into Max Magicka will improve all Magicka skills, both melee and ranged types, creating a battlemage. This also creates a parity between ranges as those who are strong at a distance are weak in melee and vice versa.

Or abilities could scale with Attribute Points and Damage stats so it kind of scales with resources but not really. Less developed thought than the first.

What I can universally say YES to is reducing the imbalancing high Max and Damage stats resulting in insane DPS and insane HPS. Those of us who played ESO 2 years ago know Heavy Armor was good back then and it has gone through no changes since -- DPS/HPS has changed. So, short of changing how Damage and Max interact, resources should be decoupled from ability power.

And this is why players need to discuss it cause as I said it's either player do or ZOS does to DPS what they did to HA and tanks.

But something does have to be done and I am sorry but I am gonna be picking on magicka DPS players Well know at this point. magicka DPS player have the best DPS in the game and not only that they can be spec to be a literal glass cannon all their armor with infuse trait enchanted with gold level magicka runes all and everything else enchanted with raising their max spell damage and you would think if they do that they die in 1 or 3 hits ? No cause that also powers up the best defense in the game being damage shields. The cap so far is 157 per tree now all a magicka user really has to do is pool all that into bastion in the Lord and they pretty much cut the shield nerf in PvP by half so stacked with the insane amount of magicka and spell damage they already have and their bubbles can give them that unkillable statues that DK tanks had at PC launch.

Now some one answer me this.

How is it fair and balanced when magicka DPS players not only have the best DPS in the game but also the best defense in the game ?

Marktoneth3

Yes... Damage should no longer scale off max resources.

should scale with level * weapon/spell damage

Lysette

Yes... Damage should no longer scale off max resources.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

way too unbalanced

And DPS having no hard cap and players able to achieve 4K+ damage and deal stupidly high DPS with no effort is ?

Well there is a hardcap, currently it's 501CP unti you stop gaining random magicka/stamina from CP

But no, if you remove this it makes a lot of the playstyles and classes extremely unbalanced and underperformed. Don't you know how some skills work and how others work with the coefficients? They are not all based on your max stats, some benefit from your spell/weapon damage rather than your magicka/stamina. Removing the max resource would destroy pretty much half the skills leaving some of the classes incredibly powerful compared to others.

That's why it's way too unbalanced, good idea but it won't work.

To quote Asayre to give a little bit of an understanding

Asayre wrote: »

Most magicka ability tooltips can be estimated with

where a and b are coefficients. b is typically around 10.5 and a varies for each skill. The range of a is typically between 0.02 to 0.2. It is quite challenging to get extremely accurate values for a even with plane fitting over a large data range. A technically more accurate estimate can be obtained by using

where a', b' and c' are coefficients.

To those who do not know what a coefficient is - those are values to simplify an otherwise complicated equation and are basically values to "fudge" the equation into a much simpler form. The value of coefficients is obtained in experiments.

dday3six

No... Damage should continue to scale off max resources.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

I have to vote Yes under the current system but if it were modified then No. Hence maybe.

A couple ways that came to mind were changing Weapon and Spell Damage to affect melee (<7m) and ranged abilities respectively, renaming them appropriately to reduce confusion. In that type of system, removing the scaling from resources makes less sense since it is the only stat that increases strictly Stamina/Magicka based abilities. By leaving resource scaling in there are then 4 focuses to specialize in: Stamina Melee, Magicka Melee, Stamina Ranged and Magicka Ranged --as opposed to the current 2 focuses: Stamina/Weapon and Magicka/Spell. Hybridizing also not only becomes viable but there are multiple ways to hybridize: Stamina/Magicka, Melee/Ranged and Jack-of-All-Trades. For example, pumping everything into what is now Weapon Damage will improve all of your melee attacks, Stamina and Magicka based, forming a kind of spellsword. Alternatively pumping everything into Max Magicka will improve all Magicka skills, both melee and ranged types, creating a battlemage. This also creates a parity between ranges as those who are strong at a distance are weak in melee and vice versa.

Or abilities could scale with Attribute Points and Damage stats so it kind of scales with resources but not really. Less developed thought than the first.

What I can universally say YES to is reducing the imbalancing high Max and Damage stats resulting in insane DPS and insane HPS. Those of us who played ESO 2 years ago know Heavy Armor was good back then and it has gone through no changes since -- DPS/HPS has changed. So, short of changing how Damage and Max interact, resources should be decoupled from ability power.

And this is why players need to discuss it cause as I said it's either player do or ZOS does to DPS what they did to HA and tanks.

But something does have to be done and I am sorry but I am gonna be picking on magicka DPS players Well know at this point. magicka DPS player have the best DPS in the game and not only that they can be spec to be a literal glass cannon all their armor with infuse trait enchanted with gold level magicka runes all and everything else enchanted with raising their max spell damage and you would think if they do that they die in 1 or 3 hits ? No cause that also powers up the best defense in the game being damage shields. The cap so far is 157 per tree now all a magicka user really has to do is pool all that into bastion in the Lord and they pretty much cut the shield nerf in PvP by half so stacked with the insane amount of magicka and spell damage they already have and their bubbles can give them that unkillable statues that DK tanks had at PC launch.

Now some one answer me this.

How is it fair and balanced when magicka DPS players not only have the best DPS in the game but also the best defense in the game ?

So your problem is Sorcs, and particularly Hardened Ward? You want to redo the game's stat scaling thus altering the game for everyone across the board, because of Sorcs? And mostly for PVP?

Ok so how is it balanced for the game to be radically altered for one class in one game mode?

Oh and by the way the CP cap is currently 167 per color, the best trait for most builds is Divines. And in PVP you cannot just stack main resource and damage against solid builds. You'll have no sustain, and go OOM/S too quickly unless all you fight are paper tigers. Even then if they team up they'll overwhelm most players if they have only focused main stat and damage.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

it certainly would help hybrid builds

CyrusArya

No... Damage should continue to scale off max resources.

The current system is fine and it should stay as it is. It's nice to have multiple avenues to add power to your skills. Many builds are possible at all because they can put out acceptable dps off of a high resource pool, thus allowing a good build variety. Divorcing damage from max stat pools would force everyone to stack damage to be relevant and that would kill off a lot of build diversity. Furthermore, this suggestion would severely hurt 1vX and outnumbered PvP. For these reasons, I'm strongly opposed.

Cazic

Maybe. Please explain.

Leave things as they are but make resistances scale with health

ADarklore

No... Damage should continue to scale off max resources.

I think the idea EricW had discussed was making Magicka and Stamina attribute points give diminishing damage returns the more you put into them, kind of like how CPs work.

Now, this idea would in turn make races without max attribute percents more viable because those races with max attribute points would no longer receive such a boost in their DPS, which I don't see a problem with.

However, the problem I see with completely taking damage scaling away from all Magicka/Stamina attributes is that it would mean either completely re-balancing ALL skills to increase damage... or it would mean people still focused on maxing their prospective attribute pool because they'd be spamming skills even more because they are doing less damage and thus require more in order to kill enemies.

Also keep in mind that it is only the minority that want the difficulty increased, in poll after poll here in the forums, the majority of players have said that current difficulty levels are fine 'as is'. I think @Wrobel needs to really consider the long term implications of making major changes to attribute damage scaling before implementing them. The potential to drive even more people from the game is there if such an undertaking turns out poorly because it could severely destroy a very large majority of players' builds that they've enjoyed playing for months or years, simply to appease a very small vocal minority.

MacCait

No... Damage should continue to scale off max resources.

I think thats a dangerous move. A lot of players at lower levels state that the game is too hard. It seems you are talking about making it harder. At Veteran levels that may be fine, but i've had many friends come to this game and not stick at it as they struggle too much. I don't think this will help, but more hinder.

As far as I can see not everyone can 'melt' peeps in PvP or even in PvE. I think that is more experienced players who have learnt how to spec CH and also taken time to study their abilities and procs and such, coming up with the build that really hits hard. Its necessary for the Veteran level content too.

It seems to me this move is talking about the higher end players, not the many more lower end to average players that are still learning and developing their skills. I think this would be a bad move across the board

ZakuBeta

Maybe. Please explain.

This issue cuts both ways. If you decouple the damage bonus many players builds become worse. If you leave it as is, than an entire build type is invalid as it is incapable of competing, and thus limits the amount of viable builds out of what should be available. If the percentage is reduced then it allows hybrids back in, and doesn't completely destroy focused builds.

Moonshadow66

No... Damage should continue to scale off max resources.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Shouldn't health increase armor and spell resistance if stamina and magicka increase damage?

I voted "no", but the point you made sounds plausible.

RAGUNAnoOne

I am iffy about this although I hate it every content is balanced off this insane DPS it will require tweaking of everything and it will increase the chance for zenimax to mess up. softcaps would be better but same issue

rfennell_ESO

Maybe. Please explain.

The bulk of the problem with max stats affecting damage/healing/shielding lies in the % increase system.

Stacking of % increase leads to some of the balance problems and probably needs to be looked at.

It also makes certain races MUCH better than others.