Radiant Destruction

Minno

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

" BY JOVE! THIS MAGICKA TEMPLAR HAS A WORKING OFFENSIVE ABILITY! NERF PLEASE GOOD SIR/MADAM "

It puts people in a rage when Templars have something that works D;

People are too used to fighting bugged templars

Yiko

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

3k ticks for a channeled ability that lasts for 3 seconds?

That's 9k... That is:

1 Wrecking Blow
0.75 Crystal Shards
1 Proxy Det

In 3 seconds an NB can weave 3 surprise attacks and 3 light attacks together for what, 15k damage?

Which part of 3k ticks for 3 seconds is overpowered exactly?

Anyone who keeps dodge rolling to avoid Radiant, try blocking instead. It will server you much better.

It's actually 4 ticks over 2.8 seconds (reported to be upwards of ~3-4.5k damage/tick), and I'm not surprised that you and the other circlejerkers aren't aware of that. They just blindly agree with your arbitrary numbers. You have been defending a spell that you don't even wholly understand.

WB doesn't generally hit 9k these days with the Hardy passive around, unless it crits + empowered or comes from stealth MAYBE? It's a 1s cast time from melee range. Haven't been hit with a frag for 12k in quite some time also.

15k damage for light attack weave with Surprise Attack over 3 seconds? Well, adjusted, Radiant can tick 4 times for 3k-4kish, so that would be 12k-16k over 2.8 seconds. But this is damage from a ranged EXECUTE outside of execute range. The fact that we're comparing it to legitimate damage abilities at all outside of execute range is completely ridiculous. This damage OUTSIDE of execute range is indicative of absurd damage INSIDE execute range.

Joy_Division wrote: »

And what defense do magicka templars have against stam builds?
None.

You're right. This has gotten pathetic.

Minno

Yiko wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

3k ticks for a channeled ability that lasts for 3 seconds?

That's 9k... That is:

1 Wrecking Blow
0.75 Crystal Shards
1 Proxy Det

In 3 seconds an NB can weave 3 surprise attacks and 3 light attacks together for what, 15k damage?

Which part of 3k ticks for 3 seconds is overpowered exactly?

Anyone who keeps dodge rolling to avoid Radiant, try blocking instead. It will server you much better.

It's actually 4 ticks over 2.8 seconds (reported to be upwards of ~3-4.5k damage/tick), and I'm not surprised that you and the other circlejerkers aren't aware of that. They just blindly agree with your arbitrary numbers. You have been defending a spell that you don't even wholly understand.

WB doesn't generally hit 9k these days with the Hardy passive around, unless it crits + empowered or comes from stealth MAYBE? It's a 1s cast time from melee range. Haven't been hit with a frag for 12k in quite some time also.

15k damage for light attack weave with Surprise Attack over 3 seconds? Well, adjusted, Radiant can tick 4 times for 3k-4kish, so that would be 12k-16k over 2.8 seconds. But this is damage from a ranged EXECUTE outside of execute range. The fact that we're comparing it to legitimate damage abilities at all outside of execute range is completely ridiculous. This damage OUTSIDE of execute range is indicative of absurd damage INSIDE execute range.

Joy_Division wrote: »

And what defense do magicka templars have against stam builds?
None.

You're right. This has gotten pathetic.

SA is AC friendly due to instant cast. Is physical dmg, against a light armor target very likely to hit hard at all times. Uses effective gap closer that adds to your dmg on next attack. Stealth mechanics give 100% chance for all 3 spells to hit with stealth bonus.

RD is not AC friendly. A magicka channel, therefore needs light armor for the penetration. Roots player in place, has a specific distance that stops the spell if you go out of it, can be purged without having to get close, can be blocked without having to get close, and ranged interupts available.

Steel tornado was a good example of a DPS ability with an execute attached. Had less counters than RD/channel spells.

2h executioner is special in that:
"Spin around and strike an enemy down, dealing [x] Physical Damage plus up to 300% more against enemies with less than 50% Health.
While slotted, Two-Handed abilities deal 18% extra damage to low health targets"

You also had access to a buff that increased your dmg by 20%, had a HOT and a burst heal.
The healing morph of RD does less dmg due to not being tacked onto max magicka.

So in essence, I'm not seeing your reasoning for having RD's dmg reviewed as "OP".

Minno

And to be honest, those physical dmg abilities above I'm OK with doing high dmg. WB just needs its knockback CC bug reviewed (if not fixed), we now have a CP for physical dmg, we have shields and crit dmg reduction.

Yiko

Minno wrote: »

SA is AC friendly due to instant cast. Is physical dmg, against a light armor target very likely to hit hard at all times. Uses effective gap closer that adds to your dmg on next attack. Stealth mechanics give 100% chance for all 3 spells to hit with stealth bonus.

RD is not AC friendly. A magicka channel, therefore needs light armor for the penetration. Roots player in place, has a specific distance that stops the spell if you go out of it, can be purged without having to get close, can be blocked without having to get close, and ranged interupts available.

Steel tornado was a good example of a DPS ability with an execute attached. Had less counters than RD/channel spells.

2h executioner is special in that:
"Spin around and strike an enemy down, dealing [x] Physical Damage plus up to 300% more against enemies with less than 50% Health.
While slotted, Two-Handed abilities deal 18% extra damage to low health targets"

You also had access to a buff that increased your dmg by 20%, had a HOT and a burst heal.
The healing morph of RD does less dmg due to not being tacked onto max magicka.

So in essence, I'm not seeing your reasoning for having RD's dmg reviewed as "OP".

Almost everything you mentioned is not relevant.

Steel tornado was one of the most hated abilities last patch for a multitude of reasons.

However, would you submit that Steel Tornado's primary function was an AOE execute? Did it increase its damage up to 300-330% like hard executes? It does not. There's a definite distinction between the tooltips, design, and use of Steel Tornado and Executioner/RD. That distinction is how an ability is either classified as a primary execute or not.

If you're not seeing my reasoning after this point, there's nothing I can do for you outside of maybe getting some nice pictures or videos detailing how much damage this ability can do in less than 1 second. I'll try to throw something together after my flight.

Wreuntzylla

Every time there is a balance change people go bonkers on these boards. Time goes by and the meta morphs to accommodate the change. Usually the complaints eventually all but disappear.

Let the meta morph and lets see the result.

Last time I checked, RD would tick every half second. It's been a while, though.

dodgehopper_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

What you call a "semi okayish DPS ability" I call a completely overtuned execute, which happens to be ranged and undodgeable. Like how are you not seeing this?

And yet, it has been stated in this thread that Radiant is working as intended. Did you miss seeing that??

Yiko wrote: »

Also, I wouldn't say that templars lack DPS abilities. I'm done posting here, though. What you trivialize as "nonsense" or "PvP QQ" is valid feedback/insight regarding game balance. I just happen to be arguing with people who don't want to lose their crutches.

But Magicka Templars have been lacking in the DPS department for pvp. And now that we are stronger, you can't just shrug us off as you once did. Your "crutch" quote is cute, but you have it opposite. Magicka Templars have been fighting with crutches for some time now. Some might even say that we are still limping. But I am satisfied with what we can do for now.

Crutches? I think its been wheelchairs. The Templars should be fighting in the special olympics but somehow they get put in the regular olympics.

dodgehopper_ESO

JDar wrote: »

Instead of taking the high road and re-balancing the class by adjusting all abilities, here is the mindset:

Temp abilities are bad across the board? Let's give them one super-stupid ability to make up for it!

It's a lot easier to do that as far as HR is concerned because it requires less man hours of work to do. So that's why they do it. I blame Bob Altman and Cal Ripken.

I find this annoying as well, considering it is magic only. Once I finish the TG storyline and cap TG skill I plan to respec my Templar for Magplar build.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Yiko wrote: »

Well, adjusted, Radiant can tick 4 times for 3k-4kish, so that would be 12k-16k over 2.8 seconds.

So you are getting rekt by 4.3k - 5.7k dps...

Joy_Division

Yiko wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

3k ticks for a channeled ability that lasts for 3 seconds?

That's 9k... That is:

1 Wrecking Blow
0.75 Crystal Shards
1 Proxy Det

In 3 seconds an NB can weave 3 surprise attacks and 3 light attacks together for what, 15k damage?

Which part of 3k ticks for 3 seconds is overpowered exactly?

Anyone who keeps dodge rolling to avoid Radiant, try blocking instead. It will server you much better.

It's actually 4 ticks over 2.8 seconds (reported to be upwards of ~3-4.5k damage/tick), and I'm not surprised that you and the other circlejerkers aren't aware of that. They just blindly agree with your arbitrary numbers. You have been defending a spell that you don't even wholly understand.

WB doesn't generally hit 9k these days with the Hardy passive around, unless it crits + empowered or comes from stealth MAYBE? It's a 1s cast time from melee range. Haven't been hit with a frag for 12k in quite some time also.

15k damage for light attack weave with Surprise Attack over 3 seconds? Well, adjusted, Radiant can tick 4 times for 3k-4kish, so that would be 12k-16k over 2.8 seconds. But this is damage from a ranged EXECUTE outside of execute range. The fact that we're comparing it to legitimate damage abilities at all outside of execute range is completely ridiculous. This damage OUTSIDE of execute range is indicative of absurd damage INSIDE execute range.

Not quite.

Radiant has 7 damage ticks on my combat log. Not four. Or at least it had before the update.

The skill maybe 2.8 seconds as you claim, but it also does have an awful global cooldown starting and stopping it so a Templar who is using this skill is going to take more than 2.8 seconds of real time by the time she hits the button until the time she can use another ability. Also, as it is a channel, it precludes any sort of weaving, which is a loss of DPS.

It is commonly thrown out on these forums how templars just spam this ability when an opponent is at 100% health as "proof" that this ability's damage dealing potential is too strong. No. That's just evidence of templars who either do not know how to play or are lazy and trying to vulture a cheap KB an an opponent getting zerged. A templar who even tries to use this ability against an opponent at full health is even worse than a sorcerer who hard casts Crystal Fragments: at least a hard cast crystal frag does competitive damage and will stun.

Radiant is in no way in the same ballpark DPS wise as puncturing sweep, dark flare, or even vampire bane + crushing shocks/trapping webs rotation, what you deem "legitimate damage abilities." It is below them enough that seeing a templar trying to actually DPS with this skill - outside a healer who literally has no other damage skills - is a sign of a player who does not know what they are doing.

Here is a video thrown around showcasing 40K templar DPS. Guess what skill the templar does *not* use?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd4VvQ6v5YM

Now, I will agree with you that it's non-execute damage is proportionally better than the other executes in the game. But you are exaggerating its efficiency. I am also not convinced its mediocre damage above 50% is not the mistake you deem it to be. Templar DPS is considerably more difficult to land on a target, even a PVE one, than other class skills. This is "easy," but the price you pay is mediocrity. When I heal PVE content that actually matters, I am grateful from the mediocre choice as I only have room for 1 DPS skill.

Also, templar damage is not instant cast. Other classes can afford to have strict good/bad binary efficiency choices because the decision and damage they do is immediate and made according to the situation. Templar damage is locked into channels and does not have clear good/bad start stopping points as everything is weaved and blended together.

******

I would agree with the people who hate this spell if the damage it did outside of executable was comparable to what other skills in the game did. It's not. If you want to believe that I and the other templars who keep telling you its not executable damage is mediocre at best are "circle-jerking" and part of some conspiracy to make life miserable for stamina 1vX players accustomed to dodging every single target ability cast at them, I am not going to change your mind. But next time you fight a magicka templar that you actually respect, pay attention to when he or she uses this skill and when he or she does not. The proof of the pudding is right there, not in screenshots that add 7 damage ticks together.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

3k ticks for a channeled ability that lasts for 3 seconds?

That's 9k... That is:

1 Wrecking Blow
0.75 Crystal Shards
1 Proxy Det

In 3 seconds an NB can weave 3 surprise attacks and 3 light attacks together for what, 15k damage?

Which part of 3k ticks for 3 seconds is overpowered exactly?

Anyone who keeps dodge rolling to avoid Radiant, try blocking instead. It will server you much better.

It's actually 4 ticks over 2.8 seconds (reported to be upwards of ~3-4.5k damage/tick), and I'm not surprised that you and the other circlejerkers aren't aware of that. They just blindly agree with your arbitrary numbers. You have been defending a spell that you don't even wholly understand.

WB doesn't generally hit 9k these days with the Hardy passive around, unless it crits + empowered or comes from stealth MAYBE? It's a 1s cast time from melee range. Haven't been hit with a frag for 12k in quite some time also.

15k damage for light attack weave with Surprise Attack over 3 seconds? Well, adjusted, Radiant can tick 4 times for 3k-4kish, so that would be 12k-16k over 2.8 seconds. But this is damage from a ranged EXECUTE outside of execute range. The fact that we're comparing it to legitimate damage abilities at all outside of execute range is completely ridiculous. This damage OUTSIDE of execute range is indicative of absurd damage INSIDE execute range.

Not quite.

Radiant has 7 damage ticks on my combat log. Not four. Or at least it had before the update.

The skill maybe 2.8 seconds as you claim, but it also does have an awful global cooldown starting and stopping it so a Templar who is using this skill is going to take more than 2.8 seconds of real time by the time she hits the button until the time she can use another ability. Also, as it is a channel, it precludes any sort of weaving, which is a loss of DPS.

It is commonly thrown out on these forums how templars just spam this ability when an opponent is at 100% health as "proof" that this ability's damage dealing potential is too strong. No. That's just evidence of templars who either do not know how to play or are lazy and trying to vulture a cheap KB an an opponent getting zerged. A templar who even tries to use this ability against an opponent at full health is even worse than a sorcerer who hard casts Crystal Fragments: at least a hard cast crystal frag does competitive damage and will stun.

Radiant is in no way in the same ballpark DPS wise as puncturing sweep, dark flare, or even vampire bane + crushing shocks/trapping webs rotation, what you deem "legitimate damage abilities." It is so far below that seeing a templar trying to actually DPS with this skill - outside a healer who literally has no other damage skills - is a sign of a player who does not know what they are doing.

Here is a video thrown around showcasing 40K templar DPS. Guess what skill the templar does *not* use?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd4VvQ6v5YM

Now, I will agree with you that it's non-execute damage is proportionally better than the other executes in the game. But you are exaggerating its efficiency. I am also not convinced its mediocre damage above 50% is not the mistake you deem it to be. Templar DPS is considerably more difficult to land on a target, even a PVE one, than other class skills. This is "easy," but the price you pay is mediocrity. When I heal PVE content that actually matters, I am grateful from the mediocre choice as I only have room for 1 DPS skill.

Also, templar damage is not instant cast. Other classes can afford to have strict good/bad binary efficiency choices because the decision and damage they do is immediate and made according to the situation. Templar damage is locked into channels and does not have clear good/bad start stopping points as everything is weaved and blended together.

******

I would agree with the people who hate this spell if the damage it did outside of executable was comparable to what other skills in the game did. It's not. If you want to believe that I and the other templars who keep telling you its not executable damage is mediocre at best are "circle-jerking" and part of some conspiracy to make life miserable for stamina 1vX players accustomed to dodging every single target ability cast at them, I am not going to change your mind. But next time you fight a magicka templar that you actually respect, pay attention to when he or she uses this skill and when he or she does not. The proof of the pudding is right there, not in screenshots that add 7 damage ticks together.

Yiko

Joy_Division wrote: »

I would agree with the people who hate this spell if the damage it did outside of executable was comparable to what other skills in the game did. It's not. If you want to believe that I and the other templars who keep telling you its not executable damage is mediocre at best are "circle-jerking" and part of some conspiracy to make life miserable for stamina 1vX players accustomed to dodging every single target ability cast at them, I am not going to change your mind. But next time you fight a magicka templar that you actually respect, pay attention to when he or she uses this skill and when he or she does not. The proof of the pudding is right there, not in screenshots that add 7 damage ticks together.

You might actually be right regarding the number of ticks, I just remembered that it absolutely was more than 3. Didn't do my homework there, will confirm later or would like someone else to confirm. But if that's the case, the other poster's calculations were even more mistaken than I initially thought.
I am not saying that 3k dps (if that's what it works out to)is phenomenal. I will agree that it is mediocre and manageable, even if it is undodgeable. It's damage relative to other executes is what concerns me. My fixation on the non-execute range damage relative to other executes is that it serves as an indicator for how absurdly the ability scales in execute range, which is exacerbated by the fact that it is undodgeable. If devs can just decrease the execution scaling coefficient, I'm perfectly fine with the damage it does outside of execute range.

Thank you for the well-thought out post, even if most of what you addressed isn't what I have a terrible grievance with.

I'll do some legitimate tests with the ability tonight to have some data concerning damage and scaling in execute range.

ThatGuyCameron

QQ L2P working as intended

MormondPayne_EP

Yiko wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I would agree with the people who hate this spell if the damage it did outside of executable was comparable to what other skills in the game did. It's not. If you want to believe that I and the other templars who keep telling you its not executable damage is mediocre at best are "circle-jerking" and part of some conspiracy to make life miserable for stamina 1vX players accustomed to dodging every single target ability cast at them, I am not going to change your mind. But next time you fight a magicka templar that you actually respect, pay attention to when he or she uses this skill and when he or she does not. The proof of the pudding is right there, not in screenshots that add 7 damage ticks together.

You might actually be right regarding the number of ticks, I just remembered that it absolutely was more than 3. Didn't do my homework there, will confirm later or would like someone else to confirm. But if that's the case, the other poster's calculations were even more mistaken than I initially thought.
I am not saying that 3k dps (if that's what it works out to)is phenomenal. I will agree that it is mediocre and manageable, even if it is undodgeable. It's damage relative to other executes is what concerns me. My fixation on the non-execute range damage relative to other executes is that it serves as an indicator for how absurdly the ability scales in execute range, which is exacerbated by the fact that it is undodgeable. If devs can just decrease the execution scaling coefficient, I'm perfectly fine with the damage it does outside of execute range.

Thank you for the well-thought out post, even if most of what you addressed isn't what I have a terrible grievance with.

I'll do some legitimate tests with the ability tonight to have some data concerning damage and scaling in execute range.

The fact of the matter is that as a stamina player, you are used to fighting on full offence until you get down to <30% health then roll around knowing you will mitigate the majority of damage while using rally and spamming vigor knowing you will mitigate most of the damage coming your way while healing up to full. Now that there is 1skill that somewhat counters that, you don't like it.

Which means, you are trying to protect your current play style by complaining about the new change rather than thinking about what you could do different in those specific situations to do better.

That is the definition of "learn to play" and I'm done here because you have admitted time and time again with your comments that "I was wrong" or "I didn't pay attention" or "I didn't do my research" yet still regurgitate the same point you started with by then trying to dress it up as "what I'm not saying nerf the skill, in just saying it does way to much damage, what what? I'm just saying".

Clean up, go home.

Yiko

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

That is the definition of "learn to play" and I'm done here because you have admitted time and time again with your comments that "I was wrong" or "I didn't pay attention" or "I didn't do my research" yet still regurgitate the same point you started with by then trying to dress it up as "what I'm not saying nerf the skill, in just saying it does way to much damage, what what? I'm just saying".

Clean up, go home.

I said I was POTENTIALLY wrong about 1 thing: the number of ticks in a full channel. Something you were FOR SURE wrong about.

It's so ironic that you tell me that I'm posting misleading information or need to clean up.

As it turns out, the full channel consists of 4 ticks. Personally confirmed it. I don't know what to tell you, but you're telling me to "clean up" about something I was right about and you were wrong about.

Also, if you could, please point out to me besides that one comment (where I said I could POTENTIALLY be wrong on ONE thing) where I said something along the lines of "I didn't pay attention" or "I didn't do my research." It should be easy if I have admitted that time and time again. But... I haven't.

That's the problem with admitting one modicum of self-doubt in the public forum. Some fool will hop on that and milk it for all its worth, trying to totally discredit any point you've made previously.

Mrs_Quietus

Magic, Stamina, Distance, and Close up ways to counter RD

Bash
Block
Don't roll
Don't mist form
Stonefist
Crushing Shock
Deepbreath
Flame Reach
WB
Magnum Shot
Javelin
Power Bash
Cloak
Purge
Purify
Crystal Frag
Familiar Explosion
Prison
Silver Shards(if vamp)
Dawnbreaker(if vamp)
Turn Undead(if vamp)
Fear
Meteor
Fire Rune
Drain(vamp)
LOS
Howl(WW)
Dragonleap
Soul Tether
Incapacitating Strike
Agony
Petrify
Any Shield(Hardened, Rock, Blazing, Magic Harness, Healing Ward)
Toppling(when it works)
Luminous Shards
Streak
Venom Arrow

#bringbackblindingflashes

Kal'Thalar

Kal'Thalar

Mrs_Quietus wrote: »

Magic, Stamina, Distance, and Close up ways to counter RD

Bash
Block
Don't roll
Don't mist form
Stonefist
Crushing Shock
Deepbreath
Flame Reach
WB
Magnum Shot
Javelin
Power Bash
Cloak
Purge
Purify
Crystal Frag
Familiar Explosion
Prison
Silver Shards(if vamp)
Dawnbreaker(if vamp)
Turn Undead(if vamp)
Fear
Meteor
Fire Rune
Drain(vamp)
LOS
Howl(WW)
Dragonleap
Soul Tether
Incapacitating Strike
Agony
Petrify
Any Shield(Hardened, Rock, Blazing, Magic Harness, Healing Ward)
Toppling(when it works)
Luminous Shards

#bringbackblindingflashes

Force-Siphon

Lyric shut y'all up lol

PrinceFabious

This is just a "nerf" thread because the spamming shuffle/roll dodge so called "1vXers" has a counter now. No need to qq about it. Let templars have fun.

bubblebuttboss

my radiant hit twice as hard last patch, the difference is that now you cant just dodge it...

if you want to hit someone for 22k you have to make sure the stars align, full buffs, 5% or less health, he's not blocking, he's doesn't know how to interrupt you, he's doesn't know how to bash, his gear is broken, he doesn't have cp, he doesn't have spell resistance, he doesnt have impen, he doesn't hit his heal, he's on his back, oh and I need to be at 100% mana

That's TWELVE things you need to have happen in order to hit a single tick like that. TWELVE! THINGS!!!
all that without mentioning the self snare that is applied. stamina classes can do more damage in 3 seconds with a execute LA weave, without 12 pre conditions.

I highly recommend you check out the tutorials, they show you how to bash (press the right and left mouse button at the same time), how to block (hold the right mouse button down), how to use skills that interrupt (usually by slotting the said skill and pressing the button it was slotted in), and last for a more advanced style of game play hit a potion AND a heal, that'll take you out of the danger zone in less than a second, if you'd like to try a more "expert" move, Block, use a potion, and then heal. that will take you out of the "danger zone" and reduce any incoming damage


hope this was helpful

bubblebuttboss

Yiko wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

As stated previously, RD is not just an execute, it clearly states in the tooltip it is a semi okayish DPS ability. Which is fine because Templar lack DPS abilities.
Just because it turns into an execute doesn't mean anything

Radiant Oppression tooltip: Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing ~14,000 (on my redguard magicka templar unbuffed) Magic Damage over 2.8 seconds. Deals up to 20% additional damage in proportion to your current Magicka.
Low health targets take up to 330% additional damage.

Executioner tooltip: Spin around and strike an enemy down, dealing ~4,000 Physical Damage (unbuffed imperial nb) plus up to 300% more against wounded enemies.
While slotted, Two Handed abilities deal 18% extra damage to low health targets.

Both seem to have the same execute-style tooltips. Not sure where you're reading its intended use as an okay-ish dps ability unless you're just looking at the numbers.

What you call a "semi okayish DPS ability" I call a completely overtuned execute, which happens to be ranged and undodgeable. Like how are you not seeing this?

Also, I wouldn't say that templars lack DPS abilities. I'm done posting here, though. What you trivialize as "nonsense" or "PvP QQ" is valid feedback/insight regarding game balance. I just happen to be arguing with people who don't want to lose their crutches.

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

You are deliberately providing misleading information.

Are you telling me that EXECUTIONER doesn't do 2-3k damage outside of execution range?
Are you for real?

I'm the one providing misleading information?
You're currently implying that the name of an ability has direct correlation with its combat effectiveness. Executioner could just as easily be named "Ability 4" and have the same execution-type function as several other abilities in the game, including Radiant Destruction. Just because it has the name "Executioner," it doesn't translate that other execute type abilities should function differently outside of execute range. You are literally just too stupid to reason with.

maxjapank wrote: »

And yet, it has been stated in this thread that Radiant is working as intended. Did you miss seeing that??

Did you miss my post earlier? "Also, a lot of the design in this game was intended. In fact, that's the very nature of design. Wrecking blow into an 18k Take Flight was working as intended. Would you call that balanced? Would you call 11k single target proxy dets balanced? 22k dawnbreaker of smiting on a vamp? We're talking about balance, not ZOS' intent."

so my 14k over 2.8 seconds channeled ability with a self snare that is interruptable... is more powerful than your spammable
4k /1 second + LA weave non interruptable mobile execute with an extra 18% additional damage built in from 2h passives?

lets do some simple math here.

templar = 14k over 2.8 seconds

stamina = 4k + LA (lets be ridiculously generous and say 2k) so 6k / second at 3 seconds is....18k

14k templar vs 18k stamina, only...the 18k cannot be interrupted, can still move, and can block cast.

glad to help =D

Joy_Division

Yiko wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I would agree with the people who hate this spell if the damage it did outside of executable was comparable to what other skills in the game did. It's not. If you want to believe that I and the other templars who keep telling you its not executable damage is mediocre at best are "circle-jerking" and part of some conspiracy to make life miserable for stamina 1vX players accustomed to dodging every single target ability cast at them, I am not going to change your mind. But next time you fight a magicka templar that you actually respect, pay attention to when he or she uses this skill and when he or she does not. The proof of the pudding is right there, not in screenshots that add 7 damage ticks together.

You might actually be right regarding the number of ticks, I just remembered that it absolutely was more than 3. Didn't do my homework there, will confirm later or would like someone else to confirm. But if that's the case, the other poster's calculations were even more mistaken than I initially thought.
I am not saying that 3k dps (if that's what it works out to)is phenomenal. I will agree that it is mediocre and manageable, even if it is undodgeable. It's damage relative to other executes is what concerns me. My fixation on the non-execute range damage relative to other executes is that it serves as an indicator for how absurdly the ability scales in execute range, which is exacerbated by the fact that it is undodgeable. If devs can just decrease the execution scaling coefficient, I'm perfectly fine with the damage it does outside of execute range.

Thank you for the well-thought out post, even if most of what you addressed isn't what I have a terrible grievance with.

I'll do some legitimate tests with the ability tonight to have some data concerning damage and scaling in execute range.

Thank you for this cordial follow-up.

I do agree with your basic premise: IF the non executable damage is too high, then Radiant becomes way too good. You are right there.

But, again, I think a lot of people have been overestimating the amount of damage it does in that non-executable. If I see some sort of concise and objective study (i.e. not screenshots) demonstrating I am incorrect here, I will admit I am wrong and say so to ZoS.

I do think it's non executable damage has to be OKish because of the wonky DPS nature of the other templar damage skills and having all channels means I cannot make instant and efficient decisions on when to cast my execute like say a sorcerer. A sorc can take an instant to pop endless fury on a target and immediately upon reaching 19% health it goes *boom*.

In competitive situations:

If I am able I will always use jabs at a target above 30% because aside from better damage it's AOE, I get healed, target snared, and can't be bashed interrupted. There really isn't a contest.

If the opponent is above 30% and not in jabs range, I will almost always use toppling charge - though in this patch probably a dark flare first

Once the opponent drops below 30%, then I start considering using RD. If I am facing any melee build with a shield I do not stop sweeps because bash interrupt. Against experienced players with other counters such as shield stacking, CCing gap closers, cloak, etc., I try and wait until they are CCed before using it because the channel is tricky to get off Vs. good players.
If they panic and try to run away (probably the worst thing to do) then I use RD...but I still might charge them first because harness/cloak/large rally heal could still potentially save them

Darnathian

This skill is fine. Its all templars have. Its terribly fun too i must admit. Sweet revenge to all those glass cannon stam builds out there.

Dudes will just sit there wb spamming while i DF, entropy, Vamps Bane, Rad Opp. gg

Elong

Yep, if you're dying really easily to this, perhaps balance your toon so you aren't a glass cannon dodge rolling shuffler or learn to interrupt.

Perhaps players will learn to build their toons with a mixture of offence and defence now.

Master_Kas

Elong wrote: »

Yep, if you're dying really easily to this, perhaps balance your toon so you aren't a glass cannon dodge rolling shuffler or learn to interrupt.

Perhaps players will learn to build their toons with a mixture of offence and defence now.

Why does so many people have an issue with shuffle + dodgeroll ? It's basiclly the main defense a stamina build has and there is also a penalty on dodgerolling now.

So many people in this thread writing stuff out of spite xD

Elong

Master_Kas wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Yep, if you're dying really easily to this, perhaps balance your toon so you aren't a glass cannon dodge rolling shuffler or learn to interrupt.

Perhaps players will learn to build their toons with a mixture of offence and defence now.

Why does so many people have an issue with shuffle + dodgeroll ? It's basiclly the main defense a stamina build has and there is also a penalty on dodgerolling now.

So many people in this thread writing stuff out of spite xD

I mainly play a stam player with those skills so no I don't have an issue with them, I have an issue with people moaning about not being able to counter something that really can be countered in many ways.

Ampnode

.

Elong wrote: »

Yep, if you're dying really easily to this, perhaps balance your toon so you aren't a glass cannon dodge rolling shuffler or learn to interrupt.

Perhaps players will learn to build their toons with a mixture of offence and defence now.

How the hell am I supposed to interrupt 2-3 people spamming an undodgeable beam that zaps me in a second? Want me to play pinball with each templar by gap closing them and interrupting the beams? What do you want us stam players to do about it? Sit there and block it? It hits 5-6K per tick even when blocking PER PERSON doing it.

Hate to say it, but I can't stand templars. Before I agreed that you guys needed help when it came to certain aspects of your class. Now that you're in line on who's more OP, you tell us to "l2p" and "adapt". Yeah, lemme l2p and adapt to something that's not counterable 95% of the time. It's because of people like you why PvP is absolute trash and is unplayable. "oh let us have fun being the next op class!!!" Yeah, because that's how it's supposed to work, right?

I wouldn't have a problem with this ability if it was dodgeable like it was last patch(was a supposed bug). My death % has increased from 47% to 54% from radiants. A damn joke. Seriously.

timidobserver

Ampnode wrote: »

.

Elong wrote: »

Yep, if you're dying really easily to this, perhaps balance your toon so you aren't a glass cannon dodge rolling shuffler or learn to interrupt.

Perhaps players will learn to build their toons with a mixture of offence and defence now.

How the hell am I supposed to interrupt 2-3 people spamming an undodgeable beam that zaps me in a second? Want me to play pinball with each templar by gap closing them and interrupting the beams? What do you want us stam players to do about it? Sit there and block it? It hits 5-6K per tick even when blocking PER PERSON doing it.

Hate to say it, but I can't stand templars. Before I agreed that you guys needed help when it came to certain aspects of your class. Now that you're in line on who's more OP, you tell us to "l2p" and "adapt". Yeah, lemme l2p and adapt to something that's not counterable 95% of the time. It's because of people like you why PvP is absolute trash and is unplayable. "oh let us have fun being the next op class!!!" Yeah, because that's how it's supposed to work, right?

I wouldn't have a problem with this ability if it was dodgeable like it was last patch(was a supposed bug). My death % has increased from 47% to 54% from radiants. A damn joke. Seriously.

If you are fighting 3 people you should be LOSing it instead of trying to face tank it.

KenaPKK

Half a channel of RD can kill me...