So about those Gap Closers.....

Jeezye

Agreed, I don't understand what that gapclosing change was all about untill the present day...


Let's see if Zeni will actually revert their changes for the first time

Morvul

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Good Feedback guys and gals!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Could you possibly pass this along? These broken mechanics are in infuriating a very significant portion of your PVP player base, and it needs to be addressed before TG goes live, we can't endure another 3-4 months of this, its already been broken for months.

As it stands on the PTS and Live right now, even with the changes on the PTS you can have two people alternate spamming Gap Closers on you(Hello Ambush and Lotus Fan) essentially locking you out of your bars(due to the silence), unable to weapon swap, or barely move resulting in your being unable to do anything but watch your character die.

This is just infuriating, and i can say if this stays as it is, i probably won't even bother with PVP at all, as will many others simply quit out of frustration.

I understand you guys/gals want gap closers to work reliably, but there has to be a different way to go about it. Giving Gap closers a min-negate with a root or mega snare just isn't the right way to go about it...

This issue will be the singlest biggest issue that has/is/will cause the majority of your pvp players exits.

Its simply unbalanced that gap closers:

• Root or mega snare the player
• Prevent the player from switching weapon bars
• has a mini-negate that prevents the player from using any skills for a very brief time frame, when spammed its a lockout.

This simply needs to be changed, its not working the way you guys wanted it to, and its punishing a large portion of your playerbase.

I completely agree

dodgehopper_ESO

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Rva_Kun wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of being perma-stunned by multiple gap closers. How can it possibly be intended that I can't break free, cast spells or weapon swap?

L2p issue?

L2P what? If hit Break Free but nothing happens and I can't refresh my Wards, I just die. You don't think it's kind of shady that there's a hidden mechanic in the game, not described in any tooltip, that makes it so affected players can't even fight back?

There's something screwy going on with CCs on a number of abilities in PvP, and everyone knows gap closers are frequent offenders. Something weird is going on with Reverberating Bash, too, but I don't think ZOS has acknowledged it. Wrecking Blow also has tons of issues with creating repeated CCs BEFORE the expected immunity has expired.

I do recall one of the ZoS moderators mentioning something about Reverberating Bash. I'm worried though because that is the last of a small handful of abilities I actually liked using on my Templar Knight character. I'm worried they're going to flush that skill in the toliet - they really need a gentler touch.

xAPxZeez

Still don't understand why gap closers need to guarantee a hit anyways. Do they close the gap? Just make them go to a location if they aren't near there when you arrive make it miss.

Even if it missed 50% it still would be useful. Most of my skills aren't guaranteed hits and they don't root/snare/stun either.

RoyJade

Gap closers's damage can be dodged (except lotus fan's dot and explosive charge who are magicka aoe), so they shouldn't miss just because the target move. They just don't need to put this awful and unfair snare.

Triumviri

thought this would be a good place to put it.

Lava_Croft

timidobserver wrote: »

Other than zos, I wonder if there is anyone, other than maybe a rare disagreeable black sheep, that thinks this gap close cc is a good thing. This might be the first issue ever that 99%+ of the community agrees on.

The first issue ever would be the lag.

rfennell_ESO

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

While the changes to them is a tiny baby step in the right direction, its still simply not good enough.

My ability to move should NOT be impacted in any way whatsoever by someone targeting me with a Gap closer.

When i launch a Crystal Frag at someone, is their movement impaired to "better ensure it reliably hits its target"?

When I cast Crushing Shock on someone is their , is their movement impaired to "better ensure it reliably hits its target"?

This is not to mention Gap Closers do far too much damage, their supposed to close a Gap not be a DPS skill.

Im sorry but if someone cast a gap closer on me and i move out of range they should miss, just like if i cast a Frag at them and they dodge I miss.

This is so lopsided broken, and its still broken...not being rooted and instead being mega snared is just as bad as being rooted.

A persons movement shouldn't be impaired because someone used a gap closer on you, this is just flat out broken and annoying. it needs changed.

nuff said.

Add the as of late spamming of puncturing strikes that does the same thing to the list. Not sure what it is, probably tied to toppling charge and then spammmmmmmmmm while you sit there unable to do squat.

Ampnode

Lava_Croft wrote: »

(Shoddy) client-side prediction and shoddy networking code overall sadly requires some form of debilitation when it comes to gap closers. Without, almost no gap closer would ever hit home.

Severely reduce the damage done by every gap closer in the game to make the gap closer spam less viable of a tactic. It won't really help you when being chased down by some awesome Xv1 group, but it's better than nothing.

There's no other way, that I can think of, to make gap closers less viable of a tactic. Their damage and ability to snare a target just for using the skill is what makes them severely unhealthy for the PvP aspect of the game. You say decrease damage as one possible solution but then that still leaves the ridiculous snare, which is the main reason why I and many others die to getting chased by zergs. Damage isn't the main problem here.

Gap closers are what they're called. An ability to close the gap. A snare shouldn't be put in place just to ensure it lands because someone's trying to escape a zerg.

Joy_Division

Triumviri wrote: »

thought this would be a good place to put it.

I'm guessing you are a sorcerer trying to Bolt "Escape."

Skill is such a joke now with the insane escalating costs. And the annoying sudden stop.

Lucky28

Joy_Division wrote: »

Triumviri wrote: »

thought this would be a good place to put it.

I'm guessing you are a sorcerer trying to Bolt "Escape."

Skill is such a joke now with the insane escalating costs. And the annoying sudden stop.

While i agree. you don't even need to try and use an escape. people just spam gap closers in general, minimum distance be dammed. it's really irritating.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

Mumyo wrote: »

I think zos said it was because of target destination calculations of the server, that way it indeed makes sense but i just ask myself why they implemented that change because it used to work just great before that allready... I never heard anyone being angry about gapclosers missing their target, at least i didn't.

dmg on gapclosers is fine if u ask me but a minimum range or something needs to be applied on spambush but lets wait for the pts to arrive on live first, got to see what its like with the changes.

Derra wrote: »

They simply need to find a way for gapclosers to reliably hit the target without impairing enemy movement.

You can´t compare a gapcloser to a projectile simply bc projectiles reliably hit 100% of the time once fired (misses when dodged but dodge is a different mechanic than just moving away). Just get gapclosers to work reliably and be good.

I agree on gapclosers dealing too much dmg. They´re supposed to be utility skills not dps abilities (hello critrush being the main offender here).

Didn't u open the thread about streak gaining more dmg?
Correct me if im wrong.


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246182/let-s-make-streak-a-vaible-dmg-spell-again/p1

Derra is one of the most active sorcerer lobbyist on this forum for over a year now. Indeed he wants more buffs for sorcerers at all times, and nerfs for sorcerers counters, crying for any small balancing on sorcerers. Just ignore him

mr_wazzabi

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

This isn't a "tough issue" or a "hard fix."


THERE WAS NEVER A PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!!!!

ZOS straight up fixed something that wasn't broken. And they did so secretly without telling us. And then it broke the game. Gap closer spam is the most frustrating mechanics issue in this game now. Its what makes me rage quit the most and keeps me from playing more.

The PTS "solution" does not go far enough. It's a false compromise. Don't like me punching you ten times in the face every day? Lets "compromise" by only punching you 8 times. It's not a compromise, its a terrible design that makes the gameplay feel choppy and laggy, makes your controls unresponsive and makes people rage quite daily.


The gap closer issue needs to be completely reverted to where it was.

Before IC came out gap closers were perfect. All they did was CLOSE THE GAP. Now they have a magical ability that roots you before the player even hits you.

Was the gap closer buff an anti-streak or anti nb escape measure? Does anyone know? Did ZOS ever give a reason for the gap closer buff?

RinaldoGandolphi

Bumping this thread again

Can't let this get buried...its the single biggest issue that is creating animoisity among your player base that PVP, its flatout infuriating people....Why was this changed? Gap Closers worked just finer in 1.5 and earlier without rooting/mega snaring and mini-negating your target

why can't this be changed back? Most players can deal with everything else, but this gap closer thing is just a deal breaker...

Its so broken, ZOS your community is begging you to revert this change. We are really not asking for the world here, all we are asking for is:

• to not be mini-negated,
• to not be unable to swap weapons.
• to not be rooted or barely able to move when targeted by gap closers.
  

Do the right thing for your community, build some goodwill and revert this change..this doesn't effect PVE in the slightest and nothing changes for them at all....this change would mean the world to your PVP players though....

Derra

Mumyo wrote: »

I think zos said it was because of target destination calculations of the server, that way it indeed makes sense but i just ask myself why they implemented that change because it used to work just great before that allready... I never heard anyone being angry about gapclosers missing their target, at least i didn't.

dmg on gapclosers is fine if u ask me but a minimum range or something needs to be applied on spambush but lets wait for the pts to arrive on live first, got to see what its like with the changes.

Derra wrote: »

They simply need to find a way for gapclosers to reliably hit the target without impairing enemy movement.

You can´t compare a gapcloser to a projectile simply bc projectiles reliably hit 100% of the time once fired (misses when dodged but dodge is a different mechanic than just moving away). Just get gapclosers to work reliably and be good.

I agree on gapclosers dealing too much dmg. They´re supposed to be utility skills not dps abilities (hello critrush being the main offender here).

Didn't u open the thread about streak gaining more dmg?
Correct me if im wrong.


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246182/let-s-make-streak-a-vaible-dmg-spell-again/p1

Well do gapclosers have a penalty for using them "too often" because that´s what the whole point is about. You can no longer use streak as stun or dmg bc the penalty isn´t worth to take.

But good job randomly throwing things around trying to discredit any argument made without understanding them mr frustratedtemplar.

Emma_Overload

Bookmarking this thread, because this issue isn't going away until it's FIXED.

Snares and damage aren't even the worst parts of the problem... the stun/silence and inability to weapon swap during that period are CRIPPLING PvP.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can we please get an acknowledgment from the developers that there is more going on with gap closers than just a snare? I think we all need to be on the same page when discussing this issue so we can make some progress. Reducing the snare isn't going to fix the problem, if the player still can't cast spells or weapon swap while being repeatedly gap closed.

Tankqull

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Bumping this thread again

Can't let this get buried...its the single biggest issue that is creating animoisity among your player base that PVP, its flatout infuriating people....Why was this changed? Gap Closers worked just finer in 1.5 and earlier without rooting/mega snaring and mini-negating your target

why can't this be changed back? Most players can deal with everything else, but this gap closer thing is just a deal breaker...

Its so broken, ZOS your community is begging you to revert this change. We are really not asking for the world here, all we are asking for is:

• to not be mini-negated,
• to not be unable to swap weapons.
• to not be rooted or barely able to move when targeted by gap closers.
  

Do the right thing for your community, build some goodwill and revert this change..this doesn't effect PVE in the slightest and nothing changes for them at all....this change would mean the world to your PVP players though....

that root was installed far before 1.5, around the lightning patch actually...
the mini negate and inability to swap is caused as i would guess by the fact that root has a short animation, but as it can´t be broken free of its animation cant be canceled because of that, and thus denys qb switch or ability use aslong as that tiny animation is played... (compare with dark flare casting behaviour you are locked out of qb switch while casting it aswell)

same thing is one of the problems with breaking free from ccwich has its on animation + application of cc immnunity wich has a animation time (especially Wb with its static casting time, LOS bugs and hughe range) aswell creating a rather large gap inbetween breaking free and being actually cc immune where you can be reCCed before immunety takes effect...

what bothers me in regards of charges is that every ability have had a ton of LOS checks(got reduced recently in an attempt to handle server issues) during its execution but WB and charges...
but especially charges would profit somuch if they would be redirected every now and then during its execution...

olsborg

Cathexis wrote: »

Gap closer root/stun is the single biggest reason I have stopped playing.

Im on the verge of joining that club. 51% of my reason is lagg tho

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Rva_Kun wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of being perma-stunned by multiple gap closers. How can it possibly be intended that I can't break free, cast spells or weapon swap?

L2p issue?

L2P what? If hit Break Free but nothing happens and I can't refresh my Wards, I just die. You don't think it's kind of shady that there's a hidden mechanic in the game, not described in any tooltip, that makes it so affected players can't even fight back?

There's something screwy going on with CCs on a number of abilities in PvP, and everyone knows gap closers are frequent offenders. Something weird is going on with Reverberating Bash, too, but I don't think ZOS has acknowledged it. Wrecking Blow also has tons of issues with creating repeated CCs BEFORE the expected immunity has expired.

I do recall one of the ZoS moderators mentioning something about Reverberating Bash. I'm worried though because that is the last of a small handful of abilities I actually liked using on my Templar Knight character. I'm worried they're going to flush that skill in the toliet - they really need a gentler touch.

Why have a gentler touch when they can just sledgehammer whatever they can get their hands on? :P

Autolycus

I don't disagree entirely OP, but snares and roots are not the same thing. It appears that you are trying to create a loophole for sorcs with this suggestion, being that you can bolt escape out of range and be entirely unaffected by all forms of gap closers? I don't feel that's the best way to balance the system. You can already dodge roll gap closers and be entirely unaffected. You can also utilize skills like Shuffle to counter the snare effects from gap closers. Not necessarily my idea of a perfect system, but there also needs to be something in place to ensure their functionality within the combat system. Frags and crushing shock aren't really good comparisons here; they function differently than gap closers, and each one has it's own CC potential that is far more punishing than a root or snare if successful.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Autolycus wrote: »

I don't disagree entirely OP, but snares and roots are not the same thing. It appears that you are trying to create a loophole for sorcs with this suggestion, being that you can bolt escape out of range and be entirely unaffected by all forms of gap closers? I don't feel that's the best way to balance the system. You can already dodge roll gap closers and be entirely unaffected. You can also utilize skills like Shuffle to counter the snare effects from gap closers. Not necessarily my idea of a perfect system, but there also needs to be something in place to ensure their functionality within the combat system. Frags and crushing shock aren't really good comparisons here; they function differently than gap closers, and each one has it's own CC potential that is far more punishing than a root or snare if successful.

The thing is that it's not a root though, it's a stun that if spammed can keep you stunned until you die.

Autolycus

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I don't disagree entirely OP, but snares and roots are not the same thing. It appears that you are trying to create a loophole for sorcs with this suggestion, being that you can bolt escape out of range and be entirely unaffected by all forms of gap closers? I don't feel that's the best way to balance the system. You can already dodge roll gap closers and be entirely unaffected. You can also utilize skills like Shuffle to counter the snare effects from gap closers. Not necessarily my idea of a perfect system, but there also needs to be something in place to ensure their functionality within the combat system. Frags and crushing shock aren't really good comparisons here; they function differently than gap closers, and each one has it's own CC potential that is far more punishing than a root or snare if successful.

The thing is that it's not a root though, it's a stun that if spammed can keep you stunned until you die.

Referring to frags/crushing shock, or gap closers? I believe that's the current issue with gap closers, which is being adjusted on Monday with the TG update so that it's not a spammable stun. When it's a snare, someone using a skill like Shuffle will be unaffected by them, other than the damage.

Erock25

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I don't disagree entirely OP, but snares and roots are not the same thing. It appears that you are trying to create a loophole for sorcs with this suggestion, being that you can bolt escape out of range and be entirely unaffected by all forms of gap closers? I don't feel that's the best way to balance the system. You can already dodge roll gap closers and be entirely unaffected. You can also utilize skills like Shuffle to counter the snare effects from gap closers. Not necessarily my idea of a perfect system, but there also needs to be something in place to ensure their functionality within the combat system. Frags and crushing shock aren't really good comparisons here; they function differently than gap closers, and each one has it's own CC potential that is far more punishing than a root or snare if successful.

The thing is that it's not a root though, it's a stun that if spammed can keep you stunned until you die.

Isn't this what they changed in this PTS though? I thought it went from a root plus silence/ability lock out thing to a 60% snare. Does it still lock you out from performing abilities?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Autolycus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I don't disagree entirely OP, but snares and roots are not the same thing. It appears that you are trying to create a loophole for sorcs with this suggestion, being that you can bolt escape out of range and be entirely unaffected by all forms of gap closers? I don't feel that's the best way to balance the system. You can already dodge roll gap closers and be entirely unaffected. You can also utilize skills like Shuffle to counter the snare effects from gap closers. Not necessarily my idea of a perfect system, but there also needs to be something in place to ensure their functionality within the combat system. Frags and crushing shock aren't really good comparisons here; they function differently than gap closers, and each one has it's own CC potential that is far more punishing than a root or snare if successful.

The thing is that it's not a root though, it's a stun that if spammed can keep you stunned until you die.

Referring to frags/crushing shock, or gap closers? I believe that's the current issue with gap closers, which is being adjusted on Monday with the TG update so that it's not a spammable stun. When it's a snare, someone using a skill like Shuffle will be unaffected by them, other than the damage.

Nvm then, thought you meant the gap closers there. Shouldn't post when tired I guess... >.>

RoyJade

Shuffle (and also maneuverer) don't give any immunity against gap closer. It's really a non-counterable snare, and that it the most awful part of this problem (with the silence and the weapon swap lock). When you use a gap closer, you literally block ALL your enemy action, except roll dodge (sometimes).

Wycks

Well by the end of the month you will be gap closing the air because PvP and this game = done.

HoloYoitsu

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

Well by the end of the month you will be gap closing the air because PvP and this game = done.

Don't even have to wait till BDO & CU if you're a Templar!

Cathexis

olsborg wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Gap closer root/stun is the single biggest reason I have stopped playing.

Im on the verge of joining that club. 51% of my reason is lagg tho

I can play through lag, I can't play through being perma-unbreakable-stunned.

Jeezye

New Patchnotes:

Adjusted the snare applied to the enemy target at the beginning of all charge/teleport abilities (such as Shield Charge, Critical Charge, or Teleport Strike) to be a 60% snare for 750 milliseconds from a 100% snare for 500 milliseconds.
Added the charge snare noted above to Dragon Leap and its morphs.
The snare remains unpurgable, and serves to help charge abilities hit moving targets more reliably without completing locking movement down.

So they changed the way it interacts. Im pissed they didnt remove it completly, but am still excited to see how it works. Putting that debuff onto ragon leap is a big buff for it btw...

Soneca798

I agree they should not have the snare and silence ***, but not on the reduced damage. Stam sorcs have crit rush as one of the only reliable damage dealers, plus templars and bow users can do some interesting combos to deal damage with crit rush.