So about those Gap Closers.....

RinaldoGandolphi

While the changes to them is a tiny baby step in the right direction, its still simply not good enough.

My ability to move should NOT be impacted in any way whatsoever by someone targeting me with a Gap closer.

When i launch a Crystal Frag at someone, is their movement impaired to "better ensure it reliably hits its target"?

When I cast Crushing Shock on someone is their , is their movement impaired to "better ensure it reliably hits its target"?

This is not to mention Gap Closers do far too much damage, their supposed to close a Gap not be a DPS skill.

Im sorry but if someone cast a gap closer on me and i move out of range they should miss, just like if i cast a Frag at them and they dodge I miss.

This is so lopsided broken, and its still broken...not being rooted and instead being mega snared is just as bad as being rooted.

A persons movement shouldn't be impaired because someone used a gap closer on you, this is just flat out broken and annoying. it needs changed.

nuff said.

RoyJade

I'm agree with nearly everything you say, but not with this part :

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Im sorry but if someone cast a gap closer on me and i move out of range they should miss, just like if i cast a Frag at them and they dodge I miss.

Gap closer should move you on the targeted enemy. He can dodge the damage, but not simply running out of range, because it's far too easy (without the snare).
The real fix gap closer should have is a correct path finding who move the user near the target even if he's moving, but without impacting his movement.

Xeven

Just make them teleports and be done with it. Remove the snairs and the stuns and the silences it's getting silly.

Also, Ambush and Lotus Fan need a minimum range. S*** is ridiculous.

Jeezye

Yeah this is hella annoying. Worst thing on top of all is, if you're using "elusive" (*cough*) mist and there are 2 NBs spamming ambush while standing right in front of you. You literary won't get a feed of ground between your enemies because of that stupid snare (which one should be ammune to while in mist form -.-)

I have no clue what Zeni thought introducing those, but that's like the worst possibe fix for a gapcloser being offplaced.

Xeven wrote: »

Also, Ambush and Lotus Fan need a minimum range. S*** is ridiculous.

This one has to be fixed immediatly. It's a tiny litte tweek that can be changed for the next pts patch. Hope they read this.

Valen_Byte

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

While the changes to them is a tiny baby step in the right direction, its still simply not good enough.

My ability to move should NOT be impacted in any way whatsoever by someone targeting me with a Gap closer.

When i launch a Crystal Frag at someone, is their movement impaired to "better ensure it reliably hits its target"?

When I cast Crushing Shock on someone is their , is their movement impaired to "better ensure it reliably hits its target"?

This is not to mention Gap Closers do far too much damage, their supposed to close a Gap not be a DPS skill.

Im sorry but if someone cast a gap closer on me and i move out of range they should miss, just like if i cast a Frag at them and they dodge I miss.

This is so lopsided broken, and its still broken...not being rooted and instead being mega snared is just as bad as being rooted.

A persons movement shouldn't be impaired because someone used a gap closer on you, this is just flat out broken and annoying. it needs changed.

nuff said.

100% agree

Emma_Overload

I'm sick and tired of being perma-stunned by multiple gap closers. How can it possibly be intended that I can't break free, cast spells or weapon swap?

Lastobeth

Rva_Kun wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of being perma-stunned by multiple gap closers. How can it possibly be intended that I can't break free, cast spells or weapon swap?

[Quoted content removed]

With regard to the OP, I agree entirely. As a sorc I feel this acutely. My whole build (and the point of my class) is to kite and get range on my targets so I can nuke them from afar. With streak being virtually useless now as a skill, you introduce this ridiculous silence on gap closers and my whole playstyle is basically ruined.

It's quite an insight into how ZOS manages things. Something doesn't work? Introduce some bodge rather than going to the root cause and fixing it.

Lorkhan

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

While the changes to them is a tiny baby step in the right direction, its still simply not good enough.

My ability to move should NOT be impacted in any way whatsoever by someone targeting me with a Gap closer.

When i launch a Crystal Frag at someone, is their movement impaired to "better ensure it reliably hits its target"?

When I cast Crushing Shock on someone is their , is their movement impaired to "better ensure it reliably hits its target"?

This is not to mention Gap Closers do far too much damage, their supposed to close a Gap not be a DPS skill.

Im sorry but if someone cast a gap closer on me and i move out of range they should miss, just like if i cast a Frag at them and they dodge I miss.

This is so lopsided broken, and its still broken...not being rooted and instead being mega snared is just as bad as being rooted.

A persons movement shouldn't be impaired because someone used a gap closer on you, this is just flat out broken and annoying. it needs changed.

nuff said.

I'm mostly melee so i always slot a gap closer, but i need to agree with you
gap closers shouldnt snare people and it should be dodgeble

Mr_Nobody

I for sure know Toppling Charge misses and will always miss if target goes out of range. You also can not cast it (well, you can go into animation for 1-2 seconds, but nothing happens) if you are close to an enemy.

Reroll NB and try using Ambush. Its like a paradise of gap closing and/or dps.

Think they mentioned that it is a teleport-like skill mechanically. May someone explain me why a teleport skill needs a stun/root on hit?

Ofc you cant, because only zos analysts know what they are doing. Wait, my bad, they do not either.

Mady

I agree that the system on live is as stupid as it is on the PTS. But I disagree that you should be able to 'run out of the damage'. It should just hit without a snare (except of normal snares like Stampede)/root even if the target moves on.

Rva_Kun wrote: »

[Quoted content removed]

Emma_Overload

Rva_Kun wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of being perma-stunned by multiple gap closers. How can it possibly be intended that I can't break free, cast spells or weapon swap?

L2p issue?

L2P what? If hit Break Free but nothing happens and I can't refresh my Wards, I just die. You don't think it's kind of shady that there's a hidden mechanic in the game, not described in any tooltip, that makes it so affected players can't even fight back?

There's something screwy going on with CCs on a number of abilities in PvP, and everyone knows gap closers are frequent offenders. Something weird is going on with Reverberating Bash, too, but I don't think ZOS has acknowledged it. Wrecking Blow also has tons of issues with creating repeated CCs BEFORE the expected immunity has expired.

Lucky28

Mady wrote: »

I agree that the system on live is as stupid as it is on the PTS. But I disagree that you should be able to 'run out of the damage'. It should just hit without a snare (except of normal snares like Stampede)/root even if the target moves on.

Rva_Kun wrote: »

[Quoted content removed]

Nah. Because it's a gap closer the damage should be secondary. it should focus on the area in which the person 'was' located. in that regard it still maintains it's function of being a "gap closer" without being broken.

I mean. pretty much every base skill in the game can be avoided/dodged. why should gap closers be different?.

Cathexis

Gap closer root/stun is the single biggest reason I have stopped playing.

Lifecode666

NERF SORC!

Mady

Lucky28 wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

I agree that the system on live is as stupid as it is on the PTS. But I disagree that you should be able to 'run out of the damage'. It should just hit without a snare (except of normal snares like Stampede)/root even if the target moves on.

Rva_Kun wrote: »

[Quoted content removed]

Nah. Because it's a gap closer the damage should be secondary. it should focus on the area in which the person 'was' located. in that regard it still maintains it's function of being a "gap closer" without being broken.

I mean. pretty much every base skill in the game can be avoided/dodged. why should gap closers be different?.

I didn't mean that you shouldn't be able to dodge them. But it would be just to easy to run out of the area. You also can't run out of the area of normal single target attacks. They should lower the damage of gap closers (about 50%) and should remove the snare/root.

Derra

They simply need to find a way for gapclosers to reliably hit the target without impairing enemy movement.

You can´t compare a gapcloser to a projectile simply bc projectiles reliably hit 100% of the time once fired (misses when dodged but dodge is a different mechanic than just moving away). Just get gapclosers to work reliably and be good.

I agree on gapclosers dealing too much dmg. They´re supposed to be utility skills not dps abilities (hello critrush being the main offender here).

RoxyPhoenix

I guess that ZOS haven't thought that a skill with a mediocre dmg output would become a spammable high dmg ability all because of current weapon damage stacking meta.

Lava_Croft

(Shoddy) client-side prediction and shoddy networking code overall sadly requires some form of debilitation when it comes to gap closers. Without, almost no gap closer would ever hit home.

Severely reduce the damage done by every gap closer in the game to make the gap closer spam less viable of a tactic. It won't really help you when being chased down by some awesome Xv1 group, but it's better than nothing.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

" Gap closer should move you on the targeted enemy. He can dodge the damage, but not simply running out of range, because it's far too easy (without the snare). "

This !

" Also, Ambush and Lotus Fan need a minimum range "

And that !

Those 2 fixes fix the gap closers issues definitly

Mumyo

I think zos said it was because of target destination calculations of the server, that way it indeed makes sense but i just ask myself why they implemented that change because it used to work just great before that allready... I never heard anyone being angry about gapclosers missing their target, at least i didn't.

dmg on gapclosers is fine if u ask me but a minimum range or something needs to be applied on spambush but lets wait for the pts to arrive on live first, got to see what its like with the changes.

Derra wrote: »

They simply need to find a way for gapclosers to reliably hit the target without impairing enemy movement.

You can´t compare a gapcloser to a projectile simply bc projectiles reliably hit 100% of the time once fired (misses when dodged but dodge is a different mechanic than just moving away). Just get gapclosers to work reliably and be good.

I agree on gapclosers dealing too much dmg. They´re supposed to be utility skills not dps abilities (hello critrush being the main offender here).

Didn't u open the thread about streak gaining more dmg?
Correct me if im wrong.


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246182/let-s-make-streak-a-vaible-dmg-spell-again/p1

WillhelmBlack

Stupidest change they ever made to this game. It really has made PvP terrible due to all the Ambush/Crit Rush zergs exploiting it.

RoamingRiverElk

Indeed the snares and stuns and silences are bad design. REMOVE THEM ALREADY. A snare is not any better!

Give a very short speed buff at the end of a gap closer if need be. You don't need to be literally on top of the enemy anyway, every skill has a range where it will hit.

RinaldoGandolphi

Good Feedback guys and gals!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Could you possibly pass this along? These broken mechanics are in infuriating a very significant portion of your PVP player base, and it needs to be addressed before TG goes live, we can't endure another 3-4 months of this, its already been broken for months.

As it stands on the PTS and Live right now, even with the changes on the PTS you can have two people alternate spamming Gap Closers on you(Hello Ambush and Lotus Fan) essentially locking you out of your bars(due to the silence), unable to weapon swap, or barely move resulting in your being unable to do anything but watch your character die.

This is just infuriating, and i can say if this stays as it is, i probably won't even bother with PVP at all, as will many others simply quit out of frustration.

I understand you guys/gals want gap closers to work reliably, but there has to be a different way to go about it. Giving Gap closers a min-negate with a root or mega snare just isn't the right way to go about it...

This issue will be the singlest biggest issue that has/is/will cause the majority of your pvp players exits.

Its simply unbalanced that gap closers:

• Root or mega snare the player
• Prevent the player from switching weapon bars
• has a mini-negate that prevents the player from using any skills for a very brief time frame, when spammed its a lockout.

This simply needs to be changed, its not working the way you guys wanted it to, and its punishing a large portion of your playerbase.

mr_wazzabi

What's *** about gap closers is that the root applies to you before you actually get hit, as if the weapon user casts a spell to root you in place?
Is that supposed to be immersive?

Emma_Overload

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

[*] Prevent the player from switching weapon bars
[*] has a mini-negate that prevents the player from using any skills for a very brief time frame, when spammed its a lockout.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

These are the two issues that make gap closers so OP and game breaking. Gap closer spammers (and ZOS!) talk like all that's happening is that you are being snared, but that's not true at all! The fact that I can't switch to my Resto bar and activate heals or wards gets me killed every time. How the heck is that fair?

RAGUNAnoOne

Never agreed more.

timidobserver

Other than zos, I wonder if there is anyone, other than maybe a rare disagreeable black sheep, that thinks this gap close cc is a good thing. This might be the first issue ever that 99%+ of the community agrees on.

Lucky28

Mumyo wrote: »

I think zos said it was because of target destination calculations of the server, that way it indeed makes sense but i just ask myself why they implemented that change because it used to work just great before that allready... I never heard anyone being angry about gapclosers missing their target, at least i didn't.

dmg on gapclosers is fine if u ask me but a minimum range or something needs to be applied on spambush but lets wait for the pts to arrive on live first, got to see what its like with the changes.

Derra wrote: »

They simply need to find a way for gapclosers to reliably hit the target without impairing enemy movement.

You can´t compare a gapcloser to a projectile simply bc projectiles reliably hit 100% of the time once fired (misses when dodged but dodge is a different mechanic than just moving away). Just get gapclosers to work reliably and be good.

I agree on gapclosers dealing too much dmg. They´re supposed to be utility skills not dps abilities (hello critrush being the main offender here).

Didn't u open the thread about streak gaining more dmg?
Correct me if im wrong.


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246182/let-s-make-streak-a-vaible-dmg-spell-again/p1

Streak is not a gap closer. it can be dodged, it can be avoided, you can get out of it's range and it does not snare or root you in order to ensure it connects.

Although. i'm fine with the damage of gap closers, it doesn't bother me. just the megasnare/root.

Robbmrp

Xeven wrote: »

Just make them teleports and be done with it. Remove the snairs and the stuns and the silences it's getting silly.

Also, Ambush and Lotus Fan need a minimum range. S*** is ridiculous.

I couldn't agree with this more. To review a death recap and see nothing but 5 Spambushes is a joke.

Maybe what @ZOS needs to do is setup the game so you can't cast the same spell over and over and over again. This would resolve every spammed ability in the game. No more WB, WB, WB or Ambush, Ambush, Ambush or BoL, BoL, BoL. Think of how this would affect every day fighting. No more endless dodgerolls and streaks.

As a Templar I realize that this sort of a change can affect my game play but there's a reason we have all these skills to use. Plus, with all the nerf this and that threads, there would be a WHOLE LOT LESS of them if skills weren't spammable. BoL wouldn't have needed to be nerfed and many others. By causing the player to use different skills, that just gives them more playability instead of an instant "I win button".

If pressing more than one button is to hard for some players in this game, they are playing the WRONG game....

Yolokin_Swagonborn

This isn't a "tough issue" or a "hard fix."


THERE WAS NEVER A PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!!!!

ZOS straight up fixed something that wasn't broken. And they did so secretly without telling us. And then it broke the game. Gap closer spam is the most frustrating mechanics issue in this game now. Its what makes me rage quit the most and keeps me from playing more.

The PTS "solution" does not go far enough. It's a false compromise. Don't like me punching you ten times in the face every day? Lets "compromise" by only punching you 8 times. It's not a compromise, its a terrible design that makes the gameplay feel choppy and laggy, makes your controls unresponsive and makes people rage quite daily.


The gap closer issue needs to be completely reverted to where it was.

Cathexis

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

This isn't a "tough issue" or a "hard fix."


THERE WAS NEVER A PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!!!!

ZOS straight up fixed something that wasn't broken. And they did so secretly without telling us. And then it broke the game. Gap closer spam is the most frustrating mechanics issue in this game now. Its what makes me rage quit the most and keeps me from playing more.

The PTS "solution" does not go far enough. It's a false compromise. Don't like me punching you ten times in the face every day? Lets "compromise" by only punching you 8 times. It's not a compromise, its a terrible design that makes the gameplay feel choppy and laggy, makes your controls unresponsive and makes people rage quite daily.


The gap closer issue needs to be completely reverted to where it was.