Would you be willing to rollback to 1.5?

themdogesbite

yes

Soris wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

"Stamina builds were bad before 1.6" argument is just a myth. They were not bad. Not at all. They are now better though.

Sorry this is entirely ***.

All I ever did was solo roam PvP every patch before 1.6. I only ever met 3 other players on the NA side that ran or experimented with stamina with any success. The only class before 1.6 that could sort of make a pure stamina build work was DK, and the only player I've ever seen doing that was Xylena, still vastly outgunned by every magicka build of the time. Jack had a decent non resto (bordering on hybrid) Temp setup going, but against a DW/Resto hybrid running sparks it was entirely useless.

Every other class would either have to run resto staff off-hand like I did with NB, and become more of a hybrid or become entirely glass with bow for 1-shots. Even as a DK with a pure stamina build, the top notch hybrid stam builds IMHO were still better anyway, stamina had no leg to stand on.

Most stamina builds except gank builds were more or less hybrids anyway. I meant stamina hybrids in there. I had hybrid templar back then with 2h skills for offence(and rally heal) and magicka for heals and shield and purify etc. So yeah that makes me hybrid.
But it was an absolute beast build. Best build for duels and small scale ive played so far. Here is the picture of it, on 2h bar my weapon dmg was 209 with rally (without cyro buffs) Dk version was also more or less like this.

I remember running into you when you had this build a coupple of times on my DC char, it was pain to fight.

gw2only1b14_ESO

I didn't chose on the poll but sure why not the only issue I see is its Taken Zeni this long to isolate 1 server that will be used for NON CP campaigns due to the coding now if you ask @brianwheeler if it can be done and we get a Hugh petition then sure lets force issue but I was like war-hammer back in the day when we wanted them to do the same thing and you seen what ended up happening

Joy_Division

yes

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Nostalgia has a lot to answer for. Everyone just ran around with soft-capped hp, primary resourse and damage type, and nBs sucked *snore*

Wut?

yelloweyedemon

no

No, elder staffs online should never return.

OdinForge

Soris wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

"Stamina builds were bad before 1.6" argument is just a myth. They were not bad. Not at all. They are now better though.

Sorry this is entirely ***.

All I ever did was solo roam PvP every patch before 1.6. I only ever met 3 other players on the NA side that ran or experimented with stamina with any success. The only class before 1.6 that could sort of make a pure stamina build work was DK, and the only player I've ever seen doing that was Xylena, still vastly outgunned by every magicka build of the time. Jack had a decent non resto (bordering on hybrid) Temp setup going, but against a DW/Resto hybrid running sparks it was entirely useless.

Every other class would either have to run resto staff off-hand like I did with NB, and become more of a hybrid or become entirely glass with bow for 1-shots. Even as a DK with a pure stamina build, the top notch hybrid stam builds IMHO were still better anyway, stamina had no leg to stand on.

Most stamina builds except gank builds were more or less hybrids anyway. I meant stamina hybrids in there. I had hybrid templar back then with 2h skills for offence(and rally heal) and magicka for heals and shield and purify etc. So yeah that makes me hybrid.
But it was an absolute beast build. Best build for duels and small scale ive played so far. Here is the picture of it, on 2h bar my weapon dmg was 209 with rally (without cyro buffs) Dk version was also more or less like this.

I'm not saying hybrids should be shamed or not given credit (as those stats are nice), just that hybrids don't stand in the same pool as pure stamina builds. My point is that pre 1.6 pure stamina builds were either less effective than even hybird builds, or non-existent completely.

As a NB without much in the way of class healing, I used sparks to keep my HP from constantly dropping and healing ward to protect it from everything else. Any build without strong range would be instantly negated or at least crippled, especially a pure stamina build that couldn't heal long enough.

If we lived with 1.5 again, I'd rather them take the time to bring pure stamina builds the tools required to branch out with more options.

Soris

yes

Yeah indeed, the new tools they provided us after 1.5 were good extensions. Things like vigor and stamina class skills very much appreciated. But they did go too far with that major overhaul idea and eventually *** up everything. I wish they could just start from the scratch, keep all the good things from previous updates and leave the bad ones outside.

mchermie

yes

Ghostbane wrote: »

In my opinion, 1.6 was excellent. It was the first time I felt playing all my classes (of both stam and magicka varieties) that I had viable options. Not sure on dynamic ult gen with 1.6, as the damage/TTK was insane.

I found Magicka DK competitive and challenging in 1.6 in HA, I want that back more than the easy mode facerolling of 1.5

Couldnt agree more

Cody

Soris wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Hell no. Stamina was completely useless back then.

Lol you think so? It was just not one button to kill but it was no where near useless.

not useless, but garbage compared to mana.

For sorc? Yes maybe. All other 3 classes had viable roam and duel spec. I used to play stamplar and it was miles better than magiplar.

you must not have tried a stamblade

I didn't but i fought with them. There were good stamblade builds out there and were pita on 1v1 fight. They used to use 2hand/dw or snb. Spam sparks and hit with the wrecking blow from stealth or animation cancelling with light+puncture+bash. When they spam sparks, you could not even hit them unless you had any aoe spell.
DK build was similar but kinda hybrid like templar build. Even they had op celebrities like Lefty and Xsorus. Definitely not bad specs for roam and duel.

"Stamina builds were bad before 1.6" argument is just a myth. They were not bad. Not at all. They are now better though.

they were not fine. Sparks was hard to use, and meant that player would be less effective against ranged players. uppercut could be interrupted via crushing shock and made useless. and i dont care how good Xsorus or Lefty were with them, they do not represent the majority (no offense intended to them)

a shield stamblade would have their butts kicked in any confrontation with any half decent mana shield build, and DW was only good for sparks and hidden blade, one vulnerable to the commonly used reflective scales, and another that only worked on melee attacks. Stamblades were garbage, anyone that could make them work was a fantastic player.

Agree to disagree. I have played with stamina/hybrid builds for 6 months straight in 1.4 and 1.5 on my templar and i was not a ganker. I fought many good stamina/hybrid builds on all classes and they were competitive in the hands of a skilled player. Of course some combinations needed buffs like stamblades lacking good class synergy with stamina builds such as blazing shield and dragon blood, but that doesn't mean they were utter garbage and unplayable.
Also you could not take the majority/average players as the base of an argument because they suck anyways with every build. Look how much they buff the stamblades but still most people suck with it, only a handful of them is real threat. Sorry for saying this.

the majority does not suck, the majority is just not on the level of the elite. Not everyone is as good as Krim or Xsorus or Sypher, but it does not mean they suck. By your argument the elite cannot be used as ways of looking at the state of certain builds either because the elite will often play well regardless of build. the argument you used goes both ways

I do believe you when you say there are many stamblades that dont do very well; the reason for this is many people only get on them because they are FOTM and have no idea how to use them. It will be the same case with the sorcerer here soon.

and yes, stamblades were garbage. they could be made to work, but they were still behind many other builds.

vortexman11

yes

Ghostbane wrote: »

1.5 was great, and I really REALLY loved it, but in the greater sense of the game, it was not balanced.

In my opinion, 1.6 was excellent. It was the first time I felt playing all my classes (of both stam and magicka varieties) that I had viable options. Not sure on dynamic ult gen with 1.6, as the damage/TTK was insane.

I found Magicka DK competitive and challenging in 1.6 in HA, I want that back more than the easy mode facerolling of 1.5

^This
I will always love and miss 1.5 and earlier. In my opinion But I agree that 1.6 was the closest we got to balance. The only problem I saw with it was broken maces which basically made stamina classes able to two shot someone in 7/7 heavy. I still think sorcerer burst would of been over the top if if wasn't for nirnhoned (even though I only ever had 2-3 pieces of it since I was poor af) but that's just my personal unpopular opinion.
I would even go so far as to say 1.6 would of been even better if they removed Magicka Detonation and put in a modified version of Dynamic ultimate, since that one skill basically made group PvP almost nothing more than who can perfectly time their prox det burst....

The one thing I miss most from 1.5 and 1.6 is all of the sets that were still viable to run because there wasn't such a large power gap in Enchants which now almost force you into using the small choice of vr16 sets...

PosternHouse

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

No, elder staffs online should never return.

I know. Instead, we have Elder Ballerinas Online!

ValarMorghulis1896

no

NO! Simply because i love my Stamblade

Ishammael

yes

Ghostbane wrote: »

1.5 was great, and I really REALLY loved it, but in the greater sense of the game, it was not balanced.

In my opinion, 1.6 was excellent. It was the first time I felt playing all my classes (of both stam and magicka varieties) that I had viable options. Not sure on dynamic ult gen with 1.6, as the damage/TTK was insane.

I found Magicka DK competitive and challenging in 1.6 in HA, I want that back more than the easy mode facerolling of 1.5

Put HA passives back to 1.5 and give me miss chance on Cinder Storm and I'll take 1.6 back.

vortexman11 wrote: »

The one thing I miss most from 1.5 and 1.6 is all of the sets that were still viable to run because there wasn't such a large power gap in Enchants which now almost force you into using the small choice of vr16 sets...

This is actually a huge thing that changed incredibly for the worse when IC dropped. Lack of viable sets. Variety now (especially jewelry) is just terrible.

OdinForge

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

1.5 was great, and I really REALLY loved it, but in the greater sense of the game, it was not balanced.

In my opinion, 1.6 was excellent. It was the first time I felt playing all my classes (of both stam and magicka varieties) that I had viable options. Not sure on dynamic ult gen with 1.6, as the damage/TTK was insane.

I found Magicka DK competitive and challenging in 1.6 in HA, I want that back more than the easy mode facerolling of 1.5

^This
I will always love and miss 1.5 and earlier. In my opinion But I agree that 1.6 was the closest we got to balance. The only problem I saw with it was broken maces which basically made stamina classes able to two shot someone in 7/7 heavy. I still think sorcerer burst would of been over the top if if wasn't for nirnhoned (even though I only ever had 2-3 pieces of it since I was poor af) but that's just my personal unpopular opinion.
I would even go so far as to say 1.6 would of been even better if they removed Magicka Detonation and put in a modified version of Dynamic ultimate, since that one skill basically made group PvP almost nothing more than who can perfectly time their prox det burst....

The one thing I miss most from 1.5 and 1.6 is all of the sets that were still viable to run because there wasn't such a large power gap in Enchants which now almost force you into using the small choice of vr16 sets...

I agree that 1.6 had the potential to be a great patch, with attention to detail from ZOS. They let bugs and broken skills sit for way too long, they should have fixed nirn and penetration sooner to name a few.

Lord_Hev

yes

Ghostbane wrote: »

1.5 was great, and I really REALLY loved it, but in the greater sense of the game, it was not balanced.

In my opinion, 1.6 was excellent. It was the first time I felt playing all my classes (of both stam and magicka varieties) that I had viable options. Not sure on dynamic ult gen with 1.6, as the damage/TTK was insane.

I found Magicka DK competitive and challenging in 1.6 in HA, I want that back more than the easy mode facerolling of 1.5

I agree with this a lot. I'd be content with 1.6 again. The majority of my DK experience was in 1.6, and it was a blast. If anything, it's a easier point to revert too, compared to 1.5.


Any of it is better then what 1.7 did to PvP.

RinaldoGandolphi

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

My answer doesn't matter since I'm already transitioning to another game, but anything would be better than the mess we've had since IC.

@Cinnamon_Spider

Its sad to hear your leaving, but I can't say I blame you. I know you, and Ezareth, and I have not always agreed on everything(we have actually had very few differences), but I just wanted to say i i very much respect you both, and it was an absolute honor to fight along side you two during the various Gate Camp Fights back when you two had intially re-rolled.

Both of you will be a very large loss to this game community, and I wish both of you all the best in everything you pursue. You and Ez Take care of yourselves!

Rinaldo

yelloweyedemon

no

PosternHouse wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

No, elder staffs online should never return.

I know. Instead, we have Elder Ballerinas Online!

At least now the game feels much more a fantasy game rather than a harry potter one.

You can have rogue assassin builds, tanky builds, etc...

From launch up until 1.6, the game didn't feel like an ES game...

RinaldoGandolphi

the patches up to 1.5 will always be looked at fondly by me. I'd do anyhing to go back and play the game before the Champion system.

That being said, its unfortunate that boat has sailed.

There have been a lot of design decisions (No stam regen while blocking, nerfed healing, nerfed dodge rolling, nerf streak, nerfed sheilds, gap closer silence and root, etc) where ZOS has created a game of zergs.

Nafirian

yes

Yes Yes Yes YesYes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes oh and Yes Yes Yes OH and did i say Yes?

rendolpheb16_ESO

yes

I liked the fight at that time. Managing your ressources meant something and heavy attack with resto staff was mandantory to keep up in big fight for magicka regen.

Stam build was garbage if my memory is good and that would need to be adressed.

ToRelax

yes

Cody wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Ixtyr wrote: »

Hell no. Stamina was completely useless back then.

Lol you think so? It was just not one button to kill but it was no where near useless.

not useless, but garbage compared to mana.

For sorc? Yes maybe. All other 3 classes had viable roam and duel spec. I used to play stamplar and it was miles better than magiplar.

you must not have tried a stamblade

I didn't but i fought with them. There were good stamblade builds out there and were pita on 1v1 fight. They used to use 2hand/dw or snb. Spam sparks and hit with the wrecking blow from stealth or animation cancelling with light+puncture+bash. When they spam sparks, you could not even hit them unless you had any aoe spell.
DK build was similar but kinda hybrid like templar build. Even they had op celebrities like Lefty and Xsorus. Definitely not bad specs for roam and duel.

"Stamina builds were bad before 1.6" argument is just a myth. They were not bad. Not at all. They are now better though.

they were not fine. Sparks was hard to use, and meant that player would be less effective against ranged players. uppercut could be interrupted via crushing shock and made useless. and i dont care how good Xsorus or Lefty were with them, they do not represent the majority (no offense intended to them)

a shield stamblade would have their butts kicked in any confrontation with any half decent mana shield build, and DW was only good for sparks and hidden blade, one vulnerable to the commonly used reflective scales, and another that only worked on melee attacks. Stamblades were garbage, anyone that could make them work was a fantastic player.

Agree to disagree. I have played with stamina/hybrid builds for 6 months straight in 1.4 and 1.5 on my templar and i was not a ganker. I fought many good stamina/hybrid builds on all classes and they were competitive in the hands of a skilled player. Of course some combinations needed buffs like stamblades lacking good class synergy with stamina builds such as blazing shield and dragon blood, but that doesn't mean they were utter garbage and unplayable.
Also you could not take the majority/average players as the base of an argument because they suck anyways with every build. Look how much they buff the stamblades but still most people suck with it, only a handful of them is real threat. Sorry for saying this.

the majority does not suck, the majority is just not on the level of the elite. Not everyone is as good as Krim or Xsorus or Sypher, but it does not mean they suck. By your argument the elite cannot be used as ways of looking at the state of certain builds either because the elite will often play well regardless of build. the argument you used goes both ways

I do believe you when you say there are many stamblades that dont do very well; the reason for this is many people only get on them because they are FOTM and have no idea how to use them. It will be the same case with the sorcerer here soon.

and yes, stamblades were garbage. they could be made to work, but they were still behind many other builds.

The majority of players are stupid, just like they behave like sheep in real life. When something doesn't go well for them they will irrationally decide what's the cause and cry for nerfs, but if things go well from their standpoint, they turn into a bunch of hyenas, not caring about the fun of others.
Also, while good players may be able to play well with almost any build, they most certainly aren't able to play on their highest possible level with all of them. Wich also is the main reason they create and adjust builds constantly...

Bofrari

It don't matter if we would or would not it's not going to happen.

Cinnamon_Spider

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

My answer doesn't matter since I'm already transitioning to another game, but anything would be better than the mess we've had since IC.

@Cinnamon_Spider

Its sad to hear your leaving, but I can't say I blame you. I know you, and Ezareth, and I have not always agreed on everything(we have actually had very few differences), but I just wanted to say i i very much respect you both, and it was an absolute honor to fight along side you two during the various Gate Camp Fights back when you two had intially re-rolled.

Both of you will be a very large loss to this game community, and I wish both of you all the best in everything you pursue. You and Ez Take care of yourselves!

Rinaldo

Thanks. I wish it didn't end this way, but I don't see the game improving any time soon. Ezareth deleted his characters weeks ago.
I'll probably log in from time to time to catch up with people and see if anything improves in future patches, but I don't see myself playing like I did now that I've started BDO.

Lord_Hev

yes

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

My answer doesn't matter since I'm already transitioning to another game, but anything would be better than the mess we've had since IC.

@Cinnamon_Spider

Its sad to hear your leaving, but I can't say I blame you. I know you, and Ezareth, and I have not always agreed on everything(we have actually had very few differences), but I just wanted to say i i very much respect you both, and it was an absolute honor to fight along side you two during the various Gate Camp Fights back when you two had intially re-rolled.

Both of you will be a very large loss to this game community, and I wish both of you all the best in everything you pursue. You and Ez Take care of yourselves!

Rinaldo

Thanks. I wish it didn't end this way, but I don't see the game improving any time soon. Ezareth deleted his characters weeks ago.
I'll probably log in from time to time to catch up with people and see if anything improves in future patches, but I don't see myself playing like I did now that I've started BDO.

He -deleted- his characters?? Why? O___o

Ghostbane

no

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

My answer doesn't matter since I'm already transitioning to another game, but anything would be better than the mess we've had since IC.

@Cinnamon_Spider

Its sad to hear your leaving, but I can't say I blame you. I know you, and Ezareth, and I have not always agreed on everything(we have actually had very few differences), but I just wanted to say i i very much respect you both, and it was an absolute honor to fight along side you two during the various Gate Camp Fights back when you two had intially re-rolled.

Both of you will be a very large loss to this game community, and I wish both of you all the best in everything you pursue. You and Ez Take care of yourselves!

Rinaldo

Thanks. I wish it didn't end this way, but I don't see the game improving any time soon. Ezareth deleted his characters weeks ago.
I'll probably log in from time to time to catch up with people and see if anything improves in future patches, but I don't see myself playing like I did now that I've started BDO.

He -deleted- his characters?? Why? O___o

You know Ez, if you are going to do something, you do it all the way.

Cinnamon_Spider

Ghostbane wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

My answer doesn't matter since I'm already transitioning to another game, but anything would be better than the mess we've had since IC.

@Cinnamon_Spider

Its sad to hear your leaving, but I can't say I blame you. I know you, and Ezareth, and I have not always agreed on everything(we have actually had very few differences), but I just wanted to say i i very much respect you both, and it was an absolute honor to fight along side you two during the various Gate Camp Fights back when you two had intially re-rolled.

Both of you will be a very large loss to this game community, and I wish both of you all the best in everything you pursue. You and Ez Take care of yourselves!

Rinaldo

Thanks. I wish it didn't end this way, but I don't see the game improving any time soon. Ezareth deleted his characters weeks ago.
I'll probably log in from time to time to catch up with people and see if anything improves in future patches, but I don't see myself playing like I did now that I've started BDO.

He -deleted- his characters?? Why? O___o

You know Ez, if you are going to do something, you do it all the way.

Pretty much this. He decided he was done with the game, so he deleted them all then uninstalled.

Duiwel

no

I would but I said no because I learn to adapt, things change better to live with it and move on than dwell on the past

Cody

Duiwel wrote: »

I would but I said no because I learn to adapt, things change better to live with it and move on than dwell on the past

true. but it is not good to accept things without question either. If we did it would be the Middle Ages all over again

Cody

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

My answer doesn't matter since I'm already transitioning to another game, but anything would be better than the mess we've had since IC.

@Cinnamon_Spider

Its sad to hear your leaving, but I can't say I blame you. I know you, and Ezareth, and I have not always agreed on everything(we have actually had very few differences), but I just wanted to say i i very much respect you both, and it was an absolute honor to fight along side you two during the various Gate Camp Fights back when you two had intially re-rolled.

Both of you will be a very large loss to this game community, and I wish both of you all the best in everything you pursue. You and Ez Take care of yourselves!

Rinaldo

Thanks. I wish it didn't end this way, but I don't see the game improving any time soon. Ezareth deleted his characters weeks ago.
I'll probably log in from time to time to catch up with people and see if anything improves in future patches, but I don't see myself playing like I did now that I've started BDO.

He -deleted- his characters?? Why? O___o

You know Ez, if you are going to do something, you do it all the way.

Pretty much this. He decided he was done with the game, so he deleted them all then uninstalled.

well damn, I was actually looking forward to fighting him in PvP....

Ghost-Shot

yes

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

No, elder staffs online should never return.

Too bad, they are returning for 2.3 anyway so we might as well get soft caps and dynamic ult back with it.

Pain In The Axe

yes

Yes zerg bust all these zerg noobs to oblivion