Templar Resource Management

GrumpyDuckling

Help me understand the logic behind Templar resource management - I must be thinking about it wrong. Templars do not have any passives that offer stamina, health, or magicka regeneration. Instead, Templars must use a skill slot in Restoring Aura to gain regeneration for resource management.

But... when I play my Nightblade I get 15% regeneration for all stamina/health/magicka, and I don't have to waste a skill slot to receive those benefits. When I play my Sorcerer I have 20% stamina and health regeneration (for slotting a skill that I use anyway in my summon) and 10% magicka regeneration passives without wasting a skill slot to receive those benefits. (Can't speak for DK's as I have not used that class much).

I get that the free casting Repentance morph of Restoring Aura is terrific when there are dead bodies around, but why are Templar regeneration passives tethered to a skill slot? Tell me and help me understand, my friends, why I am wrong in thinking that Templars are getting the short straw on this one. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Zheg

Let me quote wrobel ahead of time for you:
"Because homogenization"

Let me paraphrase wrobel ahead of time for you:
"Because it's ok for some classes to be at significant disadvantages overall against all of the other classes"

Let me give you my own nugget of wisdom:
"CU just confirmed they are on schedule for beta 1 release by end of winter"

david.haypreub18_ESO

Templars used to have good resource management in beta, when they had Restoring Spirit. It was nerfed near the end of beta, and nothing was put in its place.

Since then, resource management has been a constant complaint of Templars. But as usual, ZOS doesn't seem to listen to the Templar community.

GrumpyDuckling

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Templars used to have good resource management in beta, when they had Restoring Spirit. It was nerfed near the end of beta, and nothing was put in its place.

Since then, resource management has been a constant complaint of Templars. But as usual, ZOS doesn't seem to listen to the Templar community.

Was there any justification as to why resource management was removed after beta? I would really like to play a Templar in PVP but it seems like 1) I would be at a resource disadvantage, and 2) I have concerns about lack of mobility to escape or hide when there are a lot of enemies rushing at me. Nightblades can just disappear and Sorcerers can use that blinking/streak ability to escape.

SirDopey

potions.....and forgo Spell Damage. Templars arn't allowed to be sustainable beyond that of a V1 mage, wrobel is making us a house though, it's just you know, Rome wasn't built in a day blah blah blah

Kammakazi

I have absolutely no trouble managing Magicka on my Magicka Templar Healer/DD.

The key?

Channeled Focus.

Pandorii

I don't have any trouble with resource management on my templar healer either... I use frothgar drinks, which gives max health and magicka recovery. They feel much better than max magicka food. I am saddened though that I feel like, after reading your post, I had to learn to play my class while others had a handicap.

AOECAPS

Kammakazi wrote: »

I have absolutely no trouble managing Magicka on my Magicka Templar Healer/DD.

The key?

Channeled Focus.

I don't think he wants to sit in his house to have sustain

GrumpyDuckling

Kammakazi wrote: »

I have absolutely no trouble managing Magicka on my Magicka Templar Healer/DD.

The key?

Channeled Focus.

Any tips for a stamina build? Ideally I want to play a Templar as a stamina/archer/support healer. Looking at the passives, though, it just makes way more sense to do that build as a sorcerer.

Sorc has:
- Much better regen passives
- The changes to Twilight allow support healing
- Steak for mobility
- Surge gives weapon damage

I just... can't justify Templar use (for my intended playstyle).

AOECAPS

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

I have absolutely no trouble managing Magicka on my Magicka Templar Healer/DD.

The key?

Channeled Focus.

Any tips for a stamina build? Ideally I want to play a Templar as a stamina/archer/support healer. Looking at the passives, though, it just makes way more sense to do that build as a sorcerer.

Sorc has:
- Much better regen passives
- The changes to Twilight allow support healing
- Steak for mobility
- Surge gives weapon damage

I just... can't justify Templar use (for my intended playstyle).

You won't be able to be a Stam DD and support healer effectively the heals from Templars and from sorcs will be scaled off magicka plus with the 50% heal reduction it's going to be worthless. Your only heals for any Stam will be rally vigor and crit surge as a Stam sorc.

Vivecc

the overall reason is ....every class has something others dont have...thats why diffrent classes exist.
otherwise we could just throw classes away and give everyone all abilities to choose from. how boring.

AOECAPS

Vivecc wrote: »

the overall reason is ....every class has something others dont have...thats why diffrent classes exist.
otherwise we could just throw classes away and give everyone all abilities to choose from. how boring.

Not really every class has a way to help with resource management (except Templars)through passives. Templars rely on sitting in a circle or slotting an ability that's worthless unless tou have dead bodies to use

Brrrofski

I don't really seem to have an issue.

Can't remember the last time I actually run out of magica. Healing or dps in a dungeon and also in pvp.

DKs sustain is built around ultimates by the way op. They regen x amount of all resources when popping an Ult (depends on ultimate cost).

maxjapank

AOECAPS wrote: »

Templars rely on sitting in a circle...

Well...hope you do well sitting in your circle. I'm going to cast mine and run in the area around it. Or recast it somewhere else and create a new area of space to play in.

Cherryblossom

Vivecc wrote: »

the overall reason is ....every class has something others dont have...thats why diffrent classes exist.
otherwise we could just throw classes away and give everyone all abilities to choose from. how boring.

Whilst I agree with you to an extent, it's well know that Templars have been only really useful as a healer compared to the other classes.

Now they are Nerfing BoL, so Templars will be good for.............?

Molec

AOECAPS wrote: »

Vivecc wrote: »

the overall reason is ....every class has something others dont have...thats why diffrent classes exist.
otherwise we could just throw classes away and give everyone all abilities to choose from. how boring.

Not really every class has a way to help with resource management (except Templars)through passives. Templars rely on sitting in a circle or slotting an ability that's worthless unless tou have dead bodies to use

This isn't exactly the case. You should place the rune onto the ground, leave the rune area and do a circle around the group providing whatever support needed and then return to the rune to reactivate the buff. Templars have such an easier time in many other ways, the trade off is acceptable IMHO after playing through to vr with most classes now.

itscompton

Vivecc wrote: »

the overall reason is ....every class has something others dont have...thats why diffrent classes exist.
otherwise we could just throw classes away and give everyone all abilities to choose from. how boring.

Hmm well maybe they should take away NB's ability to use all weapons, that would make them unique and interesting wouldn't it? And for DK's maybe we'll make it so they can't be healed by other players, only by self heals. And then we can make Sorc's unique by putting a 2 second cooldown on all their abilities.

Or we could make classes unique by giving them a useful ability instead of a liability.

Iove

I think the main issue is that they forgot to buff certain passives when they removed soft caps. For example, Breton passive that reduces spell cost by 3% used to be powerful and now it's really really crappy. Someone had it worked out back then that the reduces spell cost thing was actually gaining you more magicka than the regen passives, with caps. Templars also have a reduces spell cost passive but it is way underpowered right now with soft caps gone!!

crislevin

Because Templar has much better self heal than a sorc?

you know, you can't be great in every categories.

PriorityBalle

Seriously enough templar QQ, classes are perfectly balanced in TG, especially Templar. The 1m increase in crescent sweap radius is absolutely destroying in PvP on PTS its ridicilous.

itscompton

crislevin wrote: »

Because Templar has much better self heal than a sorc?

you know, you can't be great in every categories.

You don't need self heals if you don't take damage in the first place aka hardened ward + shield stacking.

magnusthorek

I shouldn't be saying anything here since I just created my Templar but I'm not having any trouble with resource management so far. The very few times I ran out were in world bosses or Public Dungeons while stress-testing Puncturing Sweeps' healing capacity (I taunted like 20 mobs in Crimson Cove and killed them all XD). And even though, one regular potion was enough to let me finish the battle.

I'm using a L16 gear and fighting L35 mobs without using foods and I already have more magicka recovery than my main character, a Breton Sorcerer.

IMHO, the thing is you can't rely 100% on the class itself. The racials help a lot to complement some of the weak points.

When I created my Sorcerer months ago, having extra Spell Resistance sounded more reasonable than having a bit more damage and/or magicka recovery. And indeed it worked well for months. Now, mobs and bosses are getting stronger and stronger and this passive is useless and that's why my Templar is an Altmer.

failkiwib16_ESO

If you read the tooltip, it says that the magicka regen from Channeled Focus only applies if you stay on the rune, and if you leave it you will only gain the protection part for 8 seconds. It is not a viable resource management tool, and it used to be so buggy in the past that it used to stop your mana regen if you stood on it xD

itscompton

magnusthorek wrote: »

I shouldn't be saying anything here since I just created my Templar but I'm not having any trouble with resource management so far. The very few times I ran out were in world bosses or Public Dungeons while stress-testing Puncturing Sweeps' healing capacity (I taunted like 20 mobs in Crimson Cove and killed them all XD). And even though, one regular potion was enough to let me finish the battle.

I'm using a L16 gear and fighting L35 mobs without using foods and I already have more magicka recovery than my main character, a Breton Sorcerer.

IMHO, the thing is you can't rely 100% on the class itself. The racials help a lot to complement some of the weak points.

When I created my Sorcerer months ago, having extra Spell Resistance sounded more reasonable than having a bit more damage and/or magicka recovery. And indeed it worked well for months. Now, mobs and bosses are getting stronger and stronger and this passive is useless and that's why my Templar is an Altmer.

The great thing about fighting AI mobs is 1) they are fairly predictable so you can pretty easily gauge your resource expenditure to kill them at a pace that keeps your from running out and 2) they don't realize when you're out of resources and continue to attack at the same pace throughout an encounter. But in PvP any decent player will recognize the signs your vulnerable and go all out offense to finish you off thus making resource management a big key to successfully PvPing.

GrumpyDuckling

itscompton wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

I shouldn't be saying anything here since I just created my Templar but I'm not having any trouble with resource management so far. The very few times I ran out were in world bosses or Public Dungeons while stress-testing Puncturing Sweeps' healing capacity (I taunted like 20 mobs in Crimson Cove and killed them all XD). And even though, one regular potion was enough to let me finish the battle.

I'm using a L16 gear and fighting L35 mobs without using foods and I already have more magicka recovery than my main character, a Breton Sorcerer.

IMHO, the thing is you can't rely 100% on the class itself. The racials help a lot to complement some of the weak points.

When I created my Sorcerer months ago, having extra Spell Resistance sounded more reasonable than having a bit more damage and/or magicka recovery. And indeed it worked well for months. Now, mobs and bosses are getting stronger and stronger and this passive is useless and that's why my Templar is an Altmer.

The great thing about fighting AI mobs is 1) they are fairly predictable so you can pretty easily gauge your resource expenditure to kill them at a pace that keeps your from running out and 2) they don't realize when you're out of resources and continue to attack at the same pace throughout an encounter. But in PvP any decent player will recognize the signs your vulnerable and go all out offense to finish you off thus making resource management a big key to successfully PvPing.

This (in the bold) is one of the main reasons I'm reluctant to use a Templar. As a NB or Sorc I can use magicka abilities to make an exit (cloak and streak). But with the lack of escape abilities available for Templar I would need to rely heavily on sprint for an exit. Templar has some awful stamina regeneration and I fear that relying on stamina as an emergency escape just won't cut it - especially since stamina is needed for CC breaks and dodge rolling.

GrumpyDuckling

Iove wrote: »

I think the main issue is that they forgot to buff certain passives when they removed soft caps. For example, Breton passive that reduces spell cost by 3% used to be powerful and now it's really really crappy. Someone had it worked out back then that the reduces spell cost thing was actually gaining you more magicka than the regen passives, with caps. Templars also have a reduces spell cost passive but it is way underpowered right now with soft caps gone!!

Sounds like you're on to something here. Maybe that passive could also add 15% regeneration for each health, magicka, and stamina. That might bring Templar regeneration more in line with other classes.

Ommamar

Vivecc wrote: »

the overall reason is ....every class has something others dont have...thats why diffrent classes exist.
otherwise we could just throw classes away and give everyone all abilities to choose from. how boring.

I would actually like to see that path taken with the skills tied to guilds. I believe it would give a more traditional Elder Scrolls feel. I also think it would be interesting to see what builds people would come up with. Of course there would be the flavor of the month and min/max set who would push the this is the "best" path to take but I would find it interesting to see the reasoning behind the choices they made. It seems to me the path they are going to follow is going to be based of 5 piece equipment sets to overcome issue like resource utilization. I know that for base game I have used the seducer set for a ton of different builds and had decent success with it. I also force myself to use potions more something I traditionally horde in games.

willymchilybily

I have never played a templar. but id have thought the concept is simple to follow, or at least i always assumed the following...

...doesnt having regen as a skill mean it scales off your max magica and spell damage?. because it is not a fixed value ( when its not in the form x%).

Doesnt the above enable you to get good sustain

on top of that granted by racials, CP, Drinks, Enchants ...

by stacking high spell damage and high magicka to increase your regen skill tool tip values (channelled focus and repentance?) , as well as increase your damage and your heals?

where as other classes have to sacrifice damage for regen, being unable to stack both simultaneously through larger tool tip values.

Wreuntzylla

itscompton wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

Because Templar has much better self heal than a sorc?

you know, you can't be great in every categories.

You don't need self heals if you don't take damage in the first place aka hardened ward + shield stacking.

God forbid a sorc has to pick up a restro staff. It's not like their heals will be any good with 40k magicka and 4k sp.

Shelgon

willymchilybily wrote: »

I have never played a templar. but id have thought the concept is simple to follow, or at least i always assumed the following...

...doesnt having regen as a skill mean it scales off your max magica and spell damage?. because it is not a fixed value ( when its not in the form x%).

Doesnt the above enable you to get good sustain

on top of that granted by racials, CP, Drinks, Enchants ...

by stacking high spell damage and high magicka to increase your regen skill tool tip values (channelled focus and repentance?) , as well as increase your damage and your heals?

where as other classes have to sacrifice damage for regen, being unable to stack both simultaneously through larger tool tip values.

no, channeled focus is a fixed amount

templesus

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

I have absolutely no trouble managing Magicka on my Magicka Templar Healer/DD.

The key?

Channeled Focus.

Any tips for a stamina build? Ideally I want to play a Templar as a stamina/archer/support healer. Looking at the passives, though, it just makes way more sense to do that build as a sorcerer.

Sorc has:
- Much better regen passives
- The changes to Twilight allow support healing
- Steak for mobility
- Surge gives weapon damage

I just... can't justify Templar use (for my intended playstyle).

I run vamp and repentance on both bars when I'm stam.