Racial Passives Makes Huge Diffrence

Julianos

Even i didnt mention altmer+sorc combo cast inner light+bound aegis make 40k magicka with %10 magicka bonus +4k magicka !!! like a joke and still people try to abuse it.

Abeille

Remember back at release when we had soft caps, and because of them racial passives meant very little and resource management meant a lot?

I kinda miss that.

Julianos

CtrlAltDlt wrote: »

Wait for race change or do what I'm doing : Lvling a redguard

Tired of saying i dont want to change my race i want to play as a nord

Julianos

Abeille wrote: »

Remember back at release when we had soft caps, and because of them racial passives meant very little and resource management meant a lot?

I kinda miss that.

Yes back than those racials was fair. But now they yield insane stats because there is no stat cap and values increased but racials still same they didnt change them along with everything else

Callous2208

Axorn wrote: »

CtrlAltDlt wrote: »

Wait for race change or do what I'm doing : Lvling a redguard

Tired of saying i dont want to change my race i want to play as a nord

I can feel your pain here. There should definitely be a reason besides appearance to pick a certain race, and that's true for most races of this game, save a few. You only go Nord/Argonian because you really like the race, there is no class or build they would currently benefit. But buffs are the answer here friend, not nerfs.

corrosivechains

I realize you're just gonna say "single player game balance rawrawrawr!"(refer to my sig) despite the fact you're also using lore as an argument as well but:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Altmer
Ability: Fortify Maximum Magicka Fortify Maximum Magicka 1.5x INT (150% more Magicka)

percentages are still lore friendly.

Tormjolnir

Howdy Folks

I am not entirely sure why some folks are being so venomous towards the OP here? Some of you made great min/max choices when the game launched and some didn't. ZOS removed soft caps and made raw stat bonuses OP. They have tried to balance the races and outside of Nords and Argonians have done a decent job. The point being that any stat or resources tied directly to a characters power (I am looking at you Stam, Magkia and to a lesser degree Health and all regen) should either be balanced amongst the races or removed completely if balance can't be achieved.

I actually think Argonians are in a good spot now with the boost to 12% on potions upcoming. Nords on the other hand have become the worst race in the game again If Imperials get a 12% boost to health ZOS needs to at least match that on Nords if not beat it if Nords are supposed to be the toughest race. The 6% damage mit is really only 3% if you factor armour. That 6% needs to be additive or made into something else entirely. The 3% frost mit? Is there even a boss or player in the game that uses frost damage? Useless!

Personally, I would completely remove all bonuses to Stam, Magkia, Health and Regen and make the racials more fun. Nobody is loosing any power or stats because every race would be on equal footing. Nothing changes except skill become more important.

Some potential ideas for fun themed racials might include:
XP bonus gains for races in different environments. For example, Nords getting a bonus to xp gains in cold or mountain regions, Dark Elves get a bonus to xp gains in delves, etc. One of the more annoying things about ESO is how long it takes to level. An XP bonus gain would help this some and benefit everyone in the process.

Give magika bases races bonuses to leveling mages guild. Give stam classes bonuses to leveling fighter guild.

Cheers,
Torunnson

Cuyler

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

NO.

Trying to make builds identical cause you chose the wrong race for your build is not the answer. Re-roll, wait for race changes, or request a buff to your current race.

To be fair, the underlying rules of the game have indirectly damaged the value of many attribute numbers. Things like diminishing returns/caps being removed from the game are another example where this damaged the balance of the game and racial attribute numbers became more disparate. The problem is that ZoS directly imbalanced Races and needs to fix the underlying game or the attributes themselves, so I understand the OP's frustration.

To be fair, this discussion is ridiculous. Certain race/class combos are and should be better than others. This provides balance by counterweighting (rock, paper, scissors argument), and not simply equating all the races. It provides a statistically meaningful choice during character creation. Not a personally meaningful choice based on how much you love skyrim and nords.

CP5

Cuyler wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

NO.

Trying to make builds identical cause you chose the wrong race for your build is not the answer. Re-roll, wait for race changes, or request a buff to your current race.

To be fair, the underlying rules of the game have indirectly damaged the value of many attribute numbers. Things like diminishing returns/caps being removed from the game are another example where this damaged the balance of the game and racial attribute numbers became more disparate. The problem is that ZoS directly imbalanced Races and needs to fix the underlying game or the attributes themselves, so I understand the OP's frustration.

To be fair, this discussion is ridiculous. Certain race/class combos are and should be better than others. This provides balance by counterweighting (rock, paper, scissors argument), and not simply equating all the races. It provides a statistically meaningful choice during character creation. Not a personally meaningful choice based on how much you love skyrim and nords.

Problem is any race with a flat % bonus to magicka or stamina will just do more damage. Its to one dimensional, the other races need something that makes them interesting choices. Its not "race A is a better mage", its "race A does more damage with magicka skills and always will."

Miszou

Everyone saying "it's your fault for picking that race", needs to go back and look at the character generator again.

For example:

"The racial skills of the Argonians reflect their people's perilous swamp environment, giving them bonuses to healing, restoration staves and poison resistance".

"The racial skills of the Nords reflect their strong and hardy natures, giving them bonuses with two-handed weapons, health regeneration and frost resistance".

Both of these sound great, if you just pick up the game and start playing. Not everyone is going to spend hours theory crafting before playing. It's only when you get further into the game, that you might start to pay attention.

To deride people for picking the "wrong" race based on these descriptions is just ridiculous.

MisterBigglesworth

Yet another reason to
BRING BACK SOFTCAPS!

Ra'Shtar

Why do people think having to choose altmer for competitive DPS as a magicka sorc is ok escapes my understanding i should be able to choose an orc for playing magicka sorc without loosing 5%-7% DPS for lack of racials, a race is nothing more than a costume you choose to wear permanently liking the way your character looks is a big part of an MMO because you spend every single second that you are logged in looking at your character.

Cuyler

CP5 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

NO.

Trying to make builds identical cause you chose the wrong race for your build is not the answer. Re-roll, wait for race changes, or request a buff to your current race.

To be fair, the underlying rules of the game have indirectly damaged the value of many attribute numbers. Things like diminishing returns/caps being removed from the game are another example where this damaged the balance of the game and racial attribute numbers became more disparate. The problem is that ZoS directly imbalanced Races and needs to fix the underlying game or the attributes themselves, so I understand the OP's frustration.

To be fair, this discussion is ridiculous. Certain race/class combos are and should be better than others. This provides balance by counterweighting (rock, paper, scissors argument), and not simply equating all the races. It provides a statistically meaningful choice during character creation. Not a personally meaningful choice based on how much you love skyrim and nords.

Problem is any race with a flat % bonus to magicka or stamina will just do more damage. Its to one dimensional, the other races need something that makes them interesting choices. Its not "race A is a better mage", its "race A does more damage with magicka skills and always will."

I'm sorry but this BS. If you want to be a mage caster you have more than one option. If you want to be a melee stam you have more than one option. There are already more than one option for every build, each with some sort of flair that makes that particular choice slightly different. OP just wants NORDs to be competitive, but instead of asking for a buff he wants to nerf everything else. LOL

magnusthorek

It's really unfair. My Redguard NB has +/- 1200 Stamina Regen, without food buff. My Breton Sorcerer only 700 (ish). I can kill a lot of stuff with my NB and almost never run out of Stamina, even soloing Craglorn. In dungeons, it works even better because of healer's Repentance restoring it.

But with my Breton Sorcerer, which was created having in mind the cost reduction and spell resistance months ago, it's now in a very bad situation because I must use foods like Orzorga's Red Frothgar to have a moderately larger magicka pool to attack, at the cost of more spell power or just a better magicka pool provided by regular bi-foods.

In short: The race I wanted to play and/or I've chosen in past, for the content at that time, is not working anymore.

And worse! I have no support in dungeons because Repentance doesn't restore magicka and, differently of the tooltip (although it might be outdated in the website I usually check), Blessed Shards synergy doesn't recover magicka either.

But it's like people is saying, all we can do it's wait for the race change to be implemented.

CP5

Cuyler wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

NO.

Trying to make builds identical cause you chose the wrong race for your build is not the answer. Re-roll, wait for race changes, or request a buff to your current race.

To be fair, the underlying rules of the game have indirectly damaged the value of many attribute numbers. Things like diminishing returns/caps being removed from the game are another example where this damaged the balance of the game and racial attribute numbers became more disparate. The problem is that ZoS directly imbalanced Races and needs to fix the underlying game or the attributes themselves, so I understand the OP's frustration.

To be fair, this discussion is ridiculous. Certain race/class combos are and should be better than others. This provides balance by counterweighting (rock, paper, scissors argument), and not simply equating all the races. It provides a statistically meaningful choice during character creation. Not a personally meaningful choice based on how much you love skyrim and nords.

Problem is any race with a flat % bonus to magicka or stamina will just do more damage. Its to one dimensional, the other races need something that makes them interesting choices. Its not "race A is a better mage", its "race A does more damage with magicka skills and always will."

I'm sorry but this BS. If you want to be a mage caster you have more than one option. If you want to be a melee stam you have more than one option. There are already more than one option for every build, each with some sort of flair that makes that particular choice slightly different. OP just wants NORDs to be competitive, but instead of asking for a buff he wants to nerf everything else. LOL

My point is among all the unique race passives max resource passives are much harder to replicate and much stronger than the others. There needs to be a significant rework of class racials and I would prefer for racials to matter more. Thing is as it stands the max resource passives are much stronger than what the other races offer.

dodgehopper_ESO

Tormjolnir wrote: »

Howdy Folks

I am not entirely sure why some folks are being so venomous towards the OP here? Some of you made great min/max choices when the game launched and some didn't. ZOS removed soft caps and made raw stat bonuses OP. They have tried to balance the races and outside of Nords and Argonians have done a decent job. The point being that any stat or resources tied directly to a characters power (I am looking at you Stam, Magkia and to a lesser degree Health and all regen) should either be balanced amongst the races or removed completely if balance can't be achieved.

I actually think Argonians are in a good spot now with the boost to 12% on potions upcoming. Nords on the other hand have become the worst race in the game again If Imperials get a 12% boost to health ZOS needs to at least match that on Nords if not beat it if Nords are supposed to be the toughest race. The 6% damage mit is really only 3% if you factor armour. That 6% needs to be additive or made into something else entirely. The 3% frost mit? Is there even a boss or player in the game that uses frost damage? Useless!

Personally, I would completely remove all bonuses to Stam, Magkia, Health and Regen and make the racials more fun. Nobody is loosing any power or stats because every race would be on equal footing. Nothing changes except skill become more important.

Some potential ideas for fun themed racials might include:
XP bonus gains for races in different environments. For example, Nords getting a bonus to xp gains in cold or mountain regions, Dark Elves get a bonus to xp gains in delves, etc. One of the more annoying things about ESO is how long it takes to level. An XP bonus gain would help this some and benefit everyone in the process.

Give magika bases races bonuses to leveling mages guild. Give stam classes bonuses to leveling fighter guild.

Cheers,
Torunnson

You don't feel that Nords match Imperials for health? I could get behind Nords getting a bonus to Weapon damage or even Stamina on top of what they have, but you have to consider that an Imperial has Red Diamond for health regeneration (1/10 chance proc for low health return on melee attacks) vs. Nord having 30% more health regen rain or shine. Nord also has superior 6% mitigation when you factor in their damage resist and 9% health. It is true that they have 3% health less, but even on the high scale of armor the Nord will still come out with approximately 3% more mitigation after everything is factored in. The closer to naked the nord is, the more the resistance buff gains value, thus making Medium Armor a great all around choice for Nords (Which suits their style as compared Skyrim). I do think that Argonian and Nords should get their Health percent bumped up to 10%, and I still personally believe that it is ridiculous that Argonians are not the highest health regenerating race in the game. The real problem as I see it right now for Argonian and Nords (and to a lesser extent the other races with health bonus) is that the Health attribute right now is little more than a dump stat. The developers need to change that, and if they don't I could foresee them greatly increasing the +health of races that have health bonuses in order to balance them with respect to those races heavily slanted toward damaging attributes.

azoriangaming

since the removal of soft caps race is more important now a days

Ghost-Shot

Axorn wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

They need to just add race change

I dont want race change i love Nords and Argonians i hate Imperials so much (im a stormcloak) i dont wanna play any other race than these two but there is a huge imbalance !

If you chose to play a race that's sub par to the role you are trying to fill that's you're own problem. The dynamics of racial choice for builds is one of the most interesting parts of the game, lets not simplify the game even further. For the record I played a nord magicka DK since launch until re-rolling dark elf recently.

corrosivechains

you guys realize that DPS isn't the only role to play in MMO's, right? If we're going to use the balance argument, there are other means of accomplishing this besides some imaginary high score you believe you'll never get because of racial choice. MMO's used to have real roles besides the tanking dps and heals, and DPS veiled whining whittled that down to what we now call "the trinity", which held out for about 8 years and now you guys are dead set on removing those other 2 as well.

You're not asking for balance, your whining to get your playstyle catered too. This is why now in most MMO's the focus is on solo-player gratification and most group content can be done with groups of just DPS, or completely solo'd if you're a competent player.

Julianos

corrosivechains wrote: »

you guys realize that DPS isn't the only role to play in MMO's, right? If we're going to use the balance argument, there are other means of accomplishing this besides some imaginary high score you believe you'll never get because of racial choice. MMO's used to have real roles besides the tanking dps and heals, and DPS veiled whining whittled that down to what we now call "the trinity", which held out for about 8 years and now you guys are dead set on removing those other 2 as well.

You're not asking for balance, your whining to get your playstyle catered too. This is why now in most MMO's the focus is on solo-player gratification and most group content can be done with groups of just DPS, or completely solo'd if you're a competent player.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/248277/zos-should-remove-percentage-bonuses-from-racial-passives-and-add-flat-numbers#latest

Cuyler

CP5 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

NO.

Trying to make builds identical cause you chose the wrong race for your build is not the answer. Re-roll, wait for race changes, or request a buff to your current race.

To be fair, the underlying rules of the game have indirectly damaged the value of many attribute numbers. Things like diminishing returns/caps being removed from the game are another example where this damaged the balance of the game and racial attribute numbers became more disparate. The problem is that ZoS directly imbalanced Races and needs to fix the underlying game or the attributes themselves, so I understand the OP's frustration.

To be fair, this discussion is ridiculous. Certain race/class combos are and should be better than others. This provides balance by counterweighting (rock, paper, scissors argument), and not simply equating all the races. It provides a statistically meaningful choice during character creation. Not a personally meaningful choice based on how much you love skyrim and nords.

Problem is any race with a flat % bonus to magicka or stamina will just do more damage. Its to one dimensional, the other races need something that makes them interesting choices. Its not "race A is a better mage", its "race A does more damage with magicka skills and always will."

I'm sorry but this BS. If you want to be a mage caster you have more than one option. If you want to be a melee stam you have more than one option. There are already more than one option for every build, each with some sort of flair that makes that particular choice slightly different. OP just wants NORDs to be competitive, but instead of asking for a buff he wants to nerf everything else. LOL

My point is among all the unique race passives max resource passives are much harder to replicate and much stronger than the others. There needs to be a significant rework of class racials and I would prefer for racials to matter more. Thing is as it stands the max resource passives are much stronger than what the other races offer.

I couldn't disagree more. These passives provide counterbalance and there ARE races, when built CORRECTLY will hit harder without the max stat passive. Ppl are too busy parroting and following FOTM to pay attention though.

Ilterendi

log234 wrote: »

*sigh*

As stated before, you can pick your favorite race and play all normal content just fine with whatever build you want. But for end-game content and PvP you must pick a race, class and build that works well together. If you don't like the race, pick another class and/or build, if you don't like the build, pick another race and/or class.

Wrong. In endgame and PvP it still depends more on player skill and lag. Yes the better racially built character will have an advantage but it doesn't disqualify a Magicka Bosmer Templar from winning anything.

I don't believe racials need to be watered down, but balance passes need to be made. Specifically Nord and Argonian as they're terrible atm.

*Corrected spelling because iPhones suck.

Abeille

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Yet another reason to
BRING BACK SOFTCAPS!

I feel like they are more needed than ever, now with the champion system.

As the champion point cap is raised and we are allowed to reach higher values of magicka and stamina, the racial passives that increase a percentage of our max magicka/stamina become more powerful too. I can definitely see why the OP wants numerical values instead of percentages.

I would rather see Argonians and Nords buffed to the point when there is at least some advantage at using them instead of another race for some builds, even if niche builds, plus soft caps being reintroduced. I feel like the combat was more interesting when resource management was more important, too.

If nothing changes, the issue will only get worse as time goes by, the gap between "less optimal" and "optimal" races growing bigger. My main is an Altmer Magicka DD, so I'm good, but the issue is there, even if I am not hurt by it.

Julianos

Abeille wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Yet another reason to
BRING BACK SOFTCAPS!

I feel like they are more needed than ever, now with the champion system.

As the champion point cap is raised and we are allowed to reach higher values of magicka and stamina, the racial passives that increase a percentage of our max magicka/stamina become more powerful too. I can definitely see why the OP wants numerical values instead of percentages.

I would rather see Argonians and Nords buffed to the point when there is at least some advantage at using them instead of another race for some builds, even if niche builds, plus soft caps being reintroduced. I feel like the combat was more interesting when resource management was more important, too.

If nothing changes, the issue will only get worse as time goes by, the gap between "less optimal" and "optimal" races growing bigger. My main is an Altmer Magicka DD, so I'm good, but the issue is there, even if I am not hurt by it.

WOW i gave you awsome dude you are not hypocrate and not talking in your convinient. I got altmer sorc too and its my main pvp... Im here talking for the sake off ESO not for my own profit i thought this community was lost... You revived my hope dude

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

....and remember now everyone,

the Khajiit Race is the only race now without a Attribute bonus of some sort, we get a bit of regen on health and stamina, the stealthy passive and some extra Crit chance...

the Khajiit race also needs some health or a stamina attribute bonus as well to be inline with the other races... they don't need alot, just something...

NateAssassin

I got a Khajiit sorc, made an Altmer sorc on pts, they had like 1k more magicka with the same gear setups, not too big of a deal for me.

Dagoth_Rac

Abeille wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Yet another reason to
BRING BACK SOFTCAPS!

I feel like they are more needed than ever, now with the champion system.

As the champion point cap is raised and we are allowed to reach higher values of magicka and stamina, the racial passives that increase a percentage of our max magicka/stamina become more powerful too.

That is not how the racial passives work.

It is 10% of your base stat, not 10% of your buffed stat. Let's say you have 40,000 Magicka as a Nord with 8% from Bound Armor, 7% from Inner Light, 6% from Undaunted Mettle, and 18% from 501 CP.

8 + 7 + 6 + 18 = 39%

40,000 / 1.39 = 28,777 base magicka.

If you did that as a Breton, you would have an extra 10% magicka, bringing your buff from 39% to 49%.

28,777 * 1.49 = 42,887. You gained 2,887 magicka from racial bonus. Nice! But not 4,000.

Now, let's say they drastically raise CP cap from 501 to 1002! That raises CP magicka bonus to about 26%.

Nord = 8 + 7 + 6 + 26 = 47%
1.47 * 28,777 = 42,302

Breton = 8 + 7 + 6 + 26 + 10 = 57%
1.57 * 28,777 = 45,179

45,179 - 42,302 = 2,877

The difference is identical. CP did not exacerbate the magicka difference. In fact, CP make the racial passives less powerful. At 501 CP, buffed Breton is about 2,877 / 40,000 = 7.2% ahead of Nord. At 1004 CP, buffed Breton is about 2,877 / 42,302 = 6.8% ahead of Breton.

I have no desire to wade into the argument over whether some races should be better magicka DPS than other races. But I do want to correct the misunderstanding that these racial passives affect buffed stats. They do not. They affect base stats.

beerninja

Xeven wrote: »

Nobody forced you to pick a suboptimal race, and nobody else should be punished for your poor decisions except yourself.

This post is basically the equivalent of sitting at a table and opening a fresh game of battleship, then you got all your white and red pegs and my side of the game board only got 10 white pegs and 5 red pegs. Having so few pegs makes it extremely difficult to play the game but rather than encourage balance you blame it on me happening to be sitting on the "suboptimal" side of the board when it opened.

clayandaudrey_ESO

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

....and remember now everyone,

the Khajiit Race is the only race now without a Attribute bonus of some sort, we get a bit of regen on health and stamina, the stealthy passive and some extra Crit chance...

the Khajiit race also needs some health or a stamina attribute bonus as well to be inline with the other races... they don't need alot, just something...

I have a vr16 khajiit nightblade and I think we are just fine. Sorry I do not think we need a health or stam bonus.

rfennell_ESO

Ultimately the differences in races isn't quite as big as some assume.

An additional 3k stamina is what in dps? If you don't know you really are worrying about not as much as you think it is.