Racial Passives Makes Huge Diffrence

corrosivechains

beerninja wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Nobody forced you to pick a suboptimal race, and nobody else should be punished for your poor decisions except yourself.

This post is basically the equivalent of sitting at a table and opening a fresh game of battleship, then you got all your white and red pegs and my side of the game board only got 10 white pegs and 5 red pegs. Having so few pegs makes it extremely difficult to play the game but rather than encourage balance you blame it on me happening to be sitting on the "suboptimal" side of the board when it opened.

actually this analogy as it fits to the OP would be the person with so few pegs demanding that the other person's pegs also be removed to 10 white and 5 red, leaving it impossible for both players to play the game as is fun or intended, instead of getting to the root of the problem and asking for enough pegs for the game to be played evenly.

sneakymitchell

Just buff the nord class or get rid of the mitigation issue we have now that it the max is mostly around 50%. Is like why? The mitigation should be increase a little more cause if a nord has to much mitigation at 50% it the passive rugged only works for 3% instead of 6%.

Here is a buff for nord classes I want to see.

1. Increase the mitigation they have to 9% or 12%(My luck the 12% be to much for this race) cause the vet ranks are increased to 16 which makes a difference in damage and mitigation on resistances.
   
2. Increase the health passive to 12%.
3. Increase the health recovery to 60%.(This one might be to much but hey you need to show off your race. )

Also this guy name SkylarkAU is the one who showed me the mitigation issue on nords. He also tested it out with nord as well.

Sharkano

They have jerked things around so much here since the game began they should offer one free race change for each toon.

dodgehopper_ESO

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Just buff the nord class or get rid of the mitigation issue we have now that it the max is mostly around 50%. Is like why? The mitigation should be increase a little more cause if a nord has to much mitigation at 50% it the passive rugged only works for 3% instead of 6%.

Here is a buff for nord classes I want to see.

1. Increase the mitigation they have to 9% or 12%(My luck the 12% be to much for this race) cause the vet ranks are increased to 16 which makes a difference in damage and mitigation on resistances.
   
2. Increase the health passive to 12%.
3. Increase the health recovery to 60%.(This one might be to much but hey you need to show off your race. )

Also this guy name SkylarkAU is the one who showed me the mitigation issue on nords. He also tested it out with nord as well.

I'd still rather see Argonians have the superior regeneration above Nord/Orc. Increased damage reduction might make sense, I think also that the Health Multiplier needs to be pumped up a touch to the earlier days of the game as well.

Junkogen

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

What are y'all talking about, all builds right now are cookie cutter every magicka sorc is a freaking altmer and every stamplar is either imperial or redguard, making racials just some minor thing like faster experience gaining in enchanting for bretons is far less cookie cutter than the thousands of magicka altmer sorcs.

Worse than that. Altmer is the top choice for EVERY magicka build. The racial imbalance is significant.

NativeJoe

In my opinion....

Racials Suck. expecially since Zos can't figure out what the end result will be... I mean if they didn't tinker with them every freaking big patch I wouldn't be so nervous about my choice being invalidated.

Now I think they should make interesting lore friendly additions to the races...

but the min maxers are really messing up my kill counts and achievments. everyone else but the OP is doign the right thing before investing months into building a character and reading a little about the game before jumping in. So I only got like 26 lizard kills under my belt after 9 months of hunting for them outside EP keeps <.<.... also occasionally one of the lizard brains tries to join one of our PVE groups or has the audacity to show their bad racial choices in a pvp group. insta~kick.

Ilterendi

I'm a Bosmer. Race doesn't bother me, I'll eat anyone.

Artjuh90

problem with the racial passives is that they are getting numbers which rise above the roof. they have removed the softcaps which kept the balance intact between races. now they have removed it you see differences of say 10% 10% isn't as mutch as you might think at first but you must not forget this stacks with:

• mundus stones
• CP

so not only your enchantments on your armor or you 64 atribute points are getting 10% stronger they get further boosted by CP and mundus stones.
Just strange the only caps are at armor and mitigration. which shows ZOS only cares about more and more DPS. *** the healer and tank. *** the mechanics in dungeons if you can just outdps it before you need to be aware of them. yes ZOS your way of handeling the game is freaking amasing

Nerouyn

NativeJoe wrote: »

Racials Suck. expecially since Zos can't figure out what the end result will be... I mean if they didn't tinker with them every freaking big patch I wouldn't be so nervous about my choice being invalidated.

I agree completely with this sentiment. I happen to like altmers and playing casters so I'm ok under the current system. But ultimately I decided to say BLEEP racials and just made the characters I wanted.

Nearly all of mine are suboptimal now but I figure there's a more than decent chance they'll eventually recognise this is a problem and eliminate or drastically reduce the impact of racial passives.

AtellusCalidus

I chose dunmer cos I hurd tehy was gud at fire!!1

pls buff fire dmg,... oh wait. just remembered I'm stam now. cos mag DK sux balls *sigh kthx*

Seriously? Passive stat bonuses are lame [snip]. Always where, always has been. But that issue is far from being the most imbalanced thing in this game. I shake my head pretty much every time I'm in Cyrodil, hoping for the day this game will become something worth paying for.

[Edited to remove inappropriate content]

Xjcon

Artjuh90 wrote: »

problem with the racial passives is that they are getting numbers which rise above the roof. they have removed the softcaps which kept the balance intact between races. now they have removed it you see differences of say 10% 10% isn't as mutch as you might think at first but you must not forget this stacks with:

• mundus stones
• CP

so not only your enchantments on your armor or you 64 atribute points are getting 10% stronger they get further boosted by CP and mundus stones.
Just strange the only caps are at armor and mitigration. which shows ZOS only cares about more and more DPS. *** the healer and tank. *** the mechanics in dungeons if you can just outdps it before you need to be aware of them. yes ZOS your way of handeling the game is freaking amasing

MoL will Change your thoughts about how ZoS handles mechanics in a trial.

infraction2008b16_ESO

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

What the hell is with this mentality lately? "I don't like it so nerf it!"

Why is it anyones fault but yourself for choosing nord? Push for race changes not nerfs to 1 specific race ffs....

I think the point the OP is trying to make is the racial passives should be a bonus towards a specific playstyle but not a requirement. Ideally I think they should tone down the bonuses by cutting them in half (yes even the nords health bonuses), I feel if they kept the bonuses below 5% you'd still have specific races more ideal for cookie cutter builds but it wouldn't be as significant as it is now.

However I don't think ZoS would do this, if anything regarding the argonian buffs they are probably going the other way by buffing specific races. I just hope nords get a look at and rebalancing to accommodate more than tanking (maybe something similar to orcs).

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

....and remember now everyone,

the Khajiit Race is the only race now without a Attribute bonus of some sort, we get a bit of regen on health and stamina, the stealthy passive and some extra Crit chance...

the Khajiit race also needs some health or a stamina attribute bonus as well to be inline with the other races... they don't need alot, just something...

I have a vr16 khajiit nightblade and I think we are just fine. Sorry I do not think we need a health or stam bonus.

But khajiit's have buffs in damage and regen so it counters the loss of stamina.

sneakymitchell

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Just buff the nord class or get rid of the mitigation issue we have now that it the max is mostly around 50%. Is like why? The mitigation should be increase a little more cause if a nord has to much mitigation at 50% it the passive rugged only works for 3% instead of 6%.

Here is a buff for nord classes I want to see.

1. Increase the mitigation they have to 9% or 12%(My luck the 12% be to much for this race) cause the vet ranks are increased to 16 which makes a difference in damage and mitigation on resistances.
   
2. Increase the health passive to 12%.
3. Increase the health recovery to 60%.(This one might be to much but hey you need to show off your race. )

Also this guy name SkylarkAU is the one who showed me the mitigation issue on nords. He also tested it out with nord as well.

I'd still rather see Argonians have the superior regeneration above Nord/Orc. Increased damage reduction might make sense, I think also that the Health Multiplier needs to be pumped up a touch to the earlier days of the game as well.

Yea I know Argonians are going to get buff on their health and potion regen when drinking a potion. That's good if Argonians are going to get another buff in Dark Brotherhood. I will be disapointed and you can call nords the new Argonian race that is at the bottom of of the food chain of races. Gods if that would happen I would be very upset in that.

Wreuntzylla

Here is a fun fact for you new players.

Up until a short while ago, Argonians had a percentage buff to the effectiveness of potions. It even buffed regen, power and crit... If you could roll with enough potions, it was very competitive with most other races and completely aligned with Shadowscale lore.

Another fun fact is that, at release, there were both soft and hard caps. The soft caps were low enough that +% of stamina or magicka was much less effective than today. Softcapping all stats was not terribly difficult so the % of actual benefit was considerably less than 10-12%. Some time later they removed most of the soft caps. At that point Argonians slipped to the bottom 25% of race choices. When they removed the hardcaps, +% stats became far and away the best benefit you can have from a racial passive, save perhaps worthy buffs like the wood elf 21% stamina regen.

With I think 1.6, in moving to the buff system, they not only replaced the only really good passive Argonians had with a terrible percent stat replenishment on potion use, they also increased the global cooldown on potions to 45 seconds....

So, to summarize, Argonian players did not choose poorly. Caps were removed, the original awesome potion passive was replaced with a crappy potion passive, and the potion cooldown was increased to 45 seconds, effectively dropping Argonians from a very competitive race to bottom of the barrel.

mb10

No. Make a Redguard if you don't like it.

Gilliamtherogue

"Races with no 10% resources are behind others with" Man this was some quality gold. Fun fact, stamina builds' top DPS pick is Khajiit, 8% crit severely outweighs 10% stamina damage wise (when the passive is actually working) when you look at an actual parse. But don't tell ZoS that, Khajiits need more buffs pls.

Besides the whole DPS humping meta the player base seems to have taken a liking to as of late, Nords are actually more proficient tanks than Imperials as some others have already stated. The 6% damage mitigation (which in unparalleled in game) offers much more artificial health than the difference between Nords and Imperials. The only thing they lack is the stamina and small heal on hit, which the stamina gap between a Nord tank and Imperial isn't that large since tanks don't have the resource pool sizes of a glass cannon build. You are too focused on your opinion to open your eyes and realize that you're mathematically wrong. The only race left in this game that is truly unfavorable to any role is Argonians, because ZoS tried to make them too unique with a very niche build (potions) that isn't efficient at all. But that's the risk for fashion isn't it? Sorry but even in the original ES games your race dictated a lot of the min/max choices you had to make. I loved looking like a Wood Elf but their racials were pure garbage for my playstyle, but I consciously decided to make one anyways. In the end, you chose if you want to min/max or look cool, you can't really have both (except for me and my Khajiit huehueh)

corrosivechains

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

"Races with no 10% resources are behind others with" Man this was some quality gold. Fun fact, stamina builds' top DPS pick is Khajiit, 8% crit severely outweighs 10% stamina damage wise (when the passive is actually working) when you look at an actual parse. But don't tell ZoS that, Khajiits need more buffs pls.

Besides the whole DPS humping meta the player base seems to have taken a liking to as of late, Nords are actually more proficient tanks than Imperials as some others have already stated. The 6% damage mitigation (which in unparalleled in game) offers much more artificial health than the difference between Nords and Imperials. The only thing they lack is the stamina and small heal on hit, which the stamina gap between a Nord tank and Imperial isn't that large since tanks don't have the resource pool sizes of a glass cannon build. You are too focused on your opinion to open your eyes and realize that you're mathematically wrong. The only race left in this game that is truly unfavorable to any role is Argonians, because ZoS tried to make them too unique with a very niche build (potions) that isn't efficient at all. But that's the risk for fashion isn't it? Sorry but even in the original ES games your race dictated a lot of the min/max choices you had to make. I loved looking like a Wood Elf but their racials were pure garbage for my playstyle, but I consciously decided to make one anyways. In the end, you chose if you want to min/max or look cool, you can't really have both (except for me and my Khajiit huehueh)

see, I really really wish more people understood this, that DPS isn't the only role in an MMO. I miss the days when there were other roles, buffers, debuffers, controllers, tanks, healers, damage....too many participation trophies for people who never really want to participate.

Gilliamtherogue

corrosivechains wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

"Races with no 10% resources are behind others with" Man this was some quality gold. Fun fact, stamina builds' top DPS pick is Khajiit, 8% crit severely outweighs 10% stamina damage wise (when the passive is actually working) when you look at an actual parse. But don't tell ZoS that, Khajiits need more buffs pls.

Besides the whole DPS humping meta the player base seems to have taken a liking to as of late, Nords are actually more proficient tanks than Imperials as some others have already stated. The 6% damage mitigation (which in unparalleled in game) offers much more artificial health than the difference between Nords and Imperials. The only thing they lack is the stamina and small heal on hit, which the stamina gap between a Nord tank and Imperial isn't that large since tanks don't have the resource pool sizes of a glass cannon build. You are too focused on your opinion to open your eyes and realize that you're mathematically wrong. The only race left in this game that is truly unfavorable to any role is Argonians, because ZoS tried to make them too unique with a very niche build (potions) that isn't efficient at all. But that's the risk for fashion isn't it? Sorry but even in the original ES games your race dictated a lot of the min/max choices you had to make. I loved looking like a Wood Elf but their racials were pure garbage for my playstyle, but I consciously decided to make one anyways. In the end, you chose if you want to min/max or look cool, you can't really have both (except for me and my Khajiit huehueh)

see, I really really wish more people understood this, that DPS isn't the only role in an MMO. I miss the days when there were other roles, buffers, debuffers, controllers, tanks, healers, damage....too many participation trophies for people who never really want to participate.

That's the real difference my friend. That "elitest" group that is often said to be only filled with min/maxers with insane stats... It's highly incorrect. In end game PvE/PvP with organized groups, you have those exact roles. You have builds focused on debuffing mobs to take more damage for the team, you have builds focused on giving a buff to prolong resource management, damage output, etc. Running unique sets that sacrifice self performance for larger performance from the group. This community just needs a scapegoat to blame and it happens to be people who are good and certain builds/classes. The issue isn't this petty "10% stam" and all that nonesense, its the fact ZoS doesn't teach their game and promotes poor play like 0 synergy hybrid builds posted on the Battlemaster's Corner.

Jaronking

Axorn wrote: »

%10 max magicka, stamina passives are just too over power ZOS you need to remove them from the game. I got 35k stamina on my Nord DK if i was a redguard or imperial it would given me 35000*%10= 3500 extra stamina which equal to 3,5 truly superb glyph on a infused legendary chest legs or helm or 3,5x max stamina armor set bonus. These are huge buffs for a racial passive and causes obvious advantages over other races. Its almost second food buff.

I understand racials like swim speed, resists, regens or gain health&stam on hit those are lorefriendly but increased main stats that much just not fair for other races please remove them or remove the percentage and make them numeral.

So wait sense your a skyrim fanboy they should nerf other passives like Redguards and Imperials who are noted for being athletic and good stamina because your race doesn't have those accolades?I say no nerf nords.

Sunah

No

Nifty2g

Axorn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Sorry, I cant agree with this one. Your racial choice matters a lot in this game and it should. Dont get me wrong, I would like to see some of the less desirable races like Argonians get a buff, but I certainly dont support making the choice between race meaningless. If you have ever played an ES game, you know that an Altmer is going to be better at magic than a Nord, and the racial passives should reflect that.

ES games are single player this is a competitive mmo so for fair play things must be balanced

MMO's need diversity to create balance
Making everything a clone is not balance nor is it diversity.

Greiver

OLIVI3R wrote: »

IMO ZOSe should just add race passives table/description in the character creation menu- so you know which race is best at whatever (and which race is trash).

There is already a description of the races at the character creation.

PlagueMonk

Tormjolnir wrote: »

Howdy Folks

I am not entirely sure why some folks are being so venomous towards the OP here? Some of you made great min/max choices when the game launched and some didn't. ZOS removed soft caps and made raw stat bonuses OP. They have tried to balance the races and outside of Nords and Argonians have done a decent job. The point being that any stat or resources tied directly to a characters power (I am looking at you Stam, Magkia and to a lesser degree Health and all regen) should either be balanced amongst the races or removed completely if balance can't be achieved.

I actually think Argonians are in a good spot now with the boost to 12% on potions upcoming. Nords on the other hand have become the worst race in the game again If Imperials get a 12% boost to health ZOS needs to at least match that on Nords if not beat it if Nords are supposed to be the toughest race. The 6% damage mit is really only 3% if you factor armour. That 6% needs to be additive or made into something else entirely. The 3% frost mit? Is there even a boss or player in the game that uses frost damage? Useless!

Personally, I would completely remove all bonuses to Stam, Magkia, Health and Regen and make the racials more fun. Nobody is loosing any power or stats because every race would be on equal footing. Nothing changes except skill become more important.

Some potential ideas for fun themed racials might include:
XP bonus gains for races in different environments. For example, Nords getting a bonus to xp gains in cold or mountain regions, Dark Elves get a bonus to xp gains in delves, etc. One of the more annoying things about ESO is how long it takes to level. An XP bonus gain would help this some and benefit everyone in the process.

Give magika bases races bonuses to leveling mages guild. Give stam classes bonuses to leveling fighter guild.

Cheers,
Torunnson

If this is what you think then I highly suggest you think some more. 12% on potions is NOTHING. It's still tied to a freakin' consumable. If I don't have a potion guess what? My racial is useless. And for those who say, " just use crappy potions!" who the HELL at cap level would use a crap potion just for an extra 12%? Add to that the fact we only get to use that ability once every 45 secs at BEST but who in their right mind can chug a potion once very minute. That's hugely and prohibitively expensive.

Meanwhile a race with a 10% passive regeneration to their stat gets to use that ability 24/7. It's just on. You don't have to worry about having a consumable or if you are CD AND IT'S FREE.

Anhedonie

Axorn wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

No.
Wait for race change or gtfo.

ignored

And yet you're answering to my post. Are you really that stupid?

Acsvf

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Add to that the fact we only get to use that ability once every 45 secs at BEST but who in their right mind can chug a potion once very minute.

If you don't vendor them, the dropped potions are significantly better than nothing and will be enough if you only use them in fights where they're actually relevant.

hydrocynus

The title of this subject is true. It is also how it should be.

hydrocynus

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Ultimately the differences in races isn't quite as big as some assume.

An additional 3k stamina is what in dps? If you don't know you really are worrying about not as much as you think it is.

Ah but it makes a big difference in sustain.

hydrocynus

beerninja wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Nobody forced you to pick a suboptimal race, and nobody else should be punished for your poor decisions except yourself.

This post is basically the equivalent of sitting at a table and opening a fresh game of battleship, then you got all your white and red pegs and my side of the game board only got 10 white pegs and 5 red pegs. Having so few pegs makes it extremely difficult to play the game but rather than encourage balance you blame it on me happening to be sitting on the "suboptimal" side of the board when it opened.

Yet in this case you had visibility to all the pegs and decided to sit there? Why? Because I like playing that side of the table no matter what. It is more important to me than how many pegs there are on each side but when I sit of my own will then I will QQ about the pegs I knew about before I sat down.

kyle.wilson

And the Nord Passive Rugged that reduces all damage 6% is fair then? Or the max health and cold that redguards don't get?

But, no the racial passives for stat buffs shouldn't be removed. I had a Khajiit Magicka Sorc until V10, and at that point it became obvious that the only way he would work any farther would be to change him to a stam sorc. Which, I did.

And, if you are that much into roleplaying the game, then the buffs shouldn't ,matter over you fun. BTW, if you are trying to be lore friendly, your Stormcloaks don't exist for several millennia after the setting for eso.

But, maybe zennimax should take away all weapons and reduce us to lvl 1 with no buffs and just have us brawl with fists. Cause that's how far I see your balance whine going before you are happy.

Turelus

Better yet... learn to be a good enough player that you don't need racial crutches to help you.