Could some people tell me why everyone is so angry?

LBxFinalDeath

Main problem I've seen is that the upcoming patch is gonna essentially make Magicka a requirement to be as successful as possible.

Don't get me wrong, it seems like stam can still do things but magicka builds are gonna dominate since magicka is gonna be the top zerg buster that is capable of likewise instakilling single players.

Magicka Sorcs and Magicka NBs are gonna be all over the place rockin' vicious set and prox det.

Digiman

Remember this update was in the wait for month's and ZoS said they would fix things to make PvP more interesting and balanced.

They have achieved much of that except the balance. I blame Wrobel, he clearly has no clue on how to balance 15 skills per class which is sadly inept.

To top it off he hasn't been listening to proper community feedback only to whiners and crying. I mean I am not looking forward to the new PTS is ward ends up as a 2 sec cast time.

And from what I heard his address to zergs was "We buff Crystal blast."

Xellos77

I'm angry because I'm out of coffee and it's only 930am where I am.

Oh, the humanity.

VincentBlanquin

only problem with stamina nightblade was ambush surprise attack spamming and its interaction with cloak. And what they do? spamming remain and instead they nerfed other no fotm nightblade builds depended on cloak and major expedition and cut stamina builds in general. i cant be happy with this

Alucardo

Xellos77 wrote: »

I'm angry because I'm out of coffee and it's only 930am where I am.

Oh, the humanity.

My condolences man. That's terrible news indeed. I always keep a backup jar for those days where I run out without realising. I simply can't function without *twitch* coffee

Jura23

Sometimes I feel like this dude.

Xellos77

Jura23 wrote: »

Sometimes I feel like this dude.

Freaking awesome movie. I too have felt like this.


Sometimes you just want damn breakfast and missed it by 30 seconds. Watcha gonna do? Get yer dern breakfast, that's what.

rfennell_ESO

keybaud wrote: »

Title.

I genuinely don't know. Other than Stamina Sorcerers not getting anything I don't have any problems with the Thieves Guild Patch. And I play all 4 classes.

Why is everyone acting if the game has died. What terrible change did ZOS make, because from my view this patch is, the most balanced the game has been in a while. (Excluding Stam Sorcs)

So really, what is everyone's problem. Also please keep everything calm and relaxed no shouting or anger about nerfs, talk about them constructively

When you say things like "give us feedback" and make "feedback" threads on the pts... What exactly was it you thought was going to happen?

It's human nature to argue for your benefit (and in many cases to argue against your nemesis).

By that logic, there are more than enough people that have real issues with nightblades in pvp and probably about a like amount that have problems with magicka sorcerers in pvp. There are also many templars that do not wish to be nerfed in any way shape or form. Most dk's believe they deserve more than they currently have.

By the way threads are generated by topic I'd say the biggest issues are cloak and damage shields. The argument for class hate isn't a good one regarding it, while there are always forum warriors trying to mold the game to their image.... I find it hard to argue against the sheer number of threads generated on those 2 topics.

Only logical problem I see is cloak being gutted is the ZOS response. Shield stackers are being offered a world where they win every fight, all they need to do is keep arguing for their own needs and get shield breaker nerfed. I strongly suspect the one change versus shields is barely a nick in their effectiveness.

dodgehopper_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

@eventide03b14a_ESO

Fair enough. Although I can see where they are coming from with BoL nerf as they would like all classes be able to fill all roles fairly equally and Templars were the go to healers.

Some of the Stamina changes don't make massive amounts of sense to me, as Magicka builds can have just as much burst with Proxy Det

Honestly I think it actually goes deeper than that. Each update they make huge changes, sometimes doing a complete 180 on changes from the last update. It's the lack of consistency and clear direction that people are frustrated with. They don't exactly make it easy (cheap) to update your gear based on whatever meta they decided on for the current update. We barely get to break in our new gear before they fundamentally change the mechanics, and thus force us to get new gear. That's not exactly new for an MMO, but it does hurt some people disproportionally more than others. Also anytime we ask for updates on the stuff that's really important to us, we get:

1. Still working on it: No ETA
2. Sometime no earlier than 6 months from now
3. We are trying a fix that may (probably won't) work

Those are not very encourageing answers.

This is why I can't bring myself to make Gold gear. I am so glad right now that I didn't make that Kagrenac's set with the nerfs already coming down the pike. The game could use some balance and stability (from a underlying system standpoint). Underlying systems and consistent nerfs have also very consistently taken more than they have given to the Templar class. I really can't think of many good changes that have happened to the Templar class, whereas I've seen wondrous things happen to Nightblades (they needed it). Templar more than any class needs a bit of consistency, and it needs the underlying rule systems themselves to not completely undermine its efficacy (DK to a lesser extent shares in this problem).

Marrtha

Nestor wrote: »

Since I don't chase max numbers, most of the changes don't matter to me. When they do, I just adjust gear, respec and move on.

With every major change, it takes me a week or two to get my characters back to where they were with killing mobs and it's no different than it was before.

Also, people just like to be angry and take it out on others, especially online. Has nothing to do with the game.

themdogesbite

People are angry cus we are getting treated like ***. There's no game its as painfull to like as ESO.

Strider_Roshin

Here's the thing. In this game magicka builds (especially sorcs, and now Templars) have always been more powerful by a large degree than stamina builds. People haven't noticed it as much because of the champion system. Now that's being changed so that magicka builds not only dominate PvE but PvP as well.

On top of this that made cloak useless in this patch, and ZOS made sure they changed the damage on burning claws from physical to fire (since it scaled off of magicka) they didn't bother giving stamina builds the same attention (killer's blade scales off of stamina and still causes magic damage).

Strider_Roshin

Hopefully they'll fix stamina builds in the dark brotherhood. Until then, there's Dark Souls 3 :-)

Brrrofski

vyrusb23 wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

Title.

I genuinely don't know. Other than Stamina Sorcerers not getting anything I don't have any problems with the Thieves Guild Patch. And I play all 4 classes.

Why is everyone acting if the game has died. What terrible change did ZOS make, because from my view this patch is, the most balanced the game has been in a while. (Excluding Stam Sorcs)

So really, what is everyone's problem. Also please keep everything calm and relaxed no shouting or anger about nerfs, talk about them constructively

It appears, to me, to be almost entirely PvP related. I pretty much play PvE exclusively and have had no major problems with anything. No lag. No problems with powersets. No problems with "balance" issues. No problems with teaming with other players. Sure, there are occasional buggy missions, but to me it's mostly trivial stuff.

I can't think of one positive PvP thread that I've ever seen. Not one. Yet they continue to play. IMO PvP should be cut out of the game like a cancerous tumor. Of course this will never happen, but it's my opinion none the less.

Even that is incorrect though.

Why do certain classes do way better at maelstrom?

Why do certain classes on average pull more dps in group dungeons and trials than other classes on average?

Even levelling up toons, some are just way easier than others. There 100% is an imbalance beyond pvp. You're blind or ignorant if you don't see that.

Pvp is part of the game whether you like it or not.

On topic, why are people angry? Because people who spend more time playing thus game than the devs bring forth real issue and suggest actual solutions. Yet it falls on deaf ears and they either ignore it or change things nobody asked for nor wanted.

AoE caps. Ignored. Buff det and implement a new set. Will be nerfed next patch no doubt.

Templars lack mobility. Been given a house apparently. Tolling charge is bugged. It's now dodgeable. What?

Ultimates don't scale properly on stam builds. Changed a set that 1 in 100 people will use now deals poison damage instead of magica so it scales with mighty.

Stam sorc. They need a class spammable ability. Buff aoe on crystal blast, keep it magica. But we can now throw at a group of 20 guys charging at us...

A whole thread of questions for Wrobel for eso live. A lot of questions about viable stam morphs for all classes. More time is spent talking about BLOOD ALTAR. BLOOD ALTAR.

Players want pvp bags upgraded to vr16. Not going to happen. Why not? Our fault. We saved up too much AP. It wouldn't be fair. So, we can have vr16 sets, only with an AP cap. A cap! For real? The actual reason? Sell DLC. Old sets are better than the new (run out of ideas). So if they buff old sets, people won't need new set, won't need DLC. Need proof? Arch mage. Vr16. Except the neck... Where's the neck? Why no neck? So; meta = willpower = needing IC = money. I'm just waiting for no shadowwalker jewellery...

Bugs thay only get fixed every DLC. That's every 3 months.

The meta swinging wildly from one DLC to the next. Dust your magica toons off for this one. You play stam? Update 10 (= no eta).

I mean.... Take your pick. There's plenty more I've left off. Honestly, I'm actually beginning to think your question is rhetorical. Why shouldn't people be angry??

Trayzard

There is one thing i have been wondering SINCE the release of the game...

WHY dont they split the skills in PVE and PVP versions like many other games do it!?!?!? It would make balancing SO much easier and it would make ALL skills you have available usefull in a specific mode.

RebornV3x

I think its because the patch notes always have people scratching there head like who asked for this or WTF were they thinking.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Hey you know that templar charge?

Yeah. The one with the global cooldown and over the top pathing issues, none of the other gap closers seem to have?

Yeah, that is the one.

What about it?

Lets nerf it. And tell them it is to bring it more in line with the other gap closers.

But it doesnt function like any of the gap closers. I mean 'if' it works it closes a gap. But it seems to work less then any others, it has a global cooldown so you cant chain any skills to it like you can on the others, and it still locks out skill usuage sometimes. It isnt in line with the other gap closers in anyway.

Well yeah. But Templar.

Seems reasonable.

Saint314Louis1985

I think a lot of people are mad because they like their builds now and dont want to adapt to change. I get it, but lets look at some of the changes being made.

magicka dks are getting buffed - this has been probably one of the single most discussed topics on the forums and the devs replied with buffs and skill changes. alot of people are saying they will be pretty strong after the update.

breath of life - i know not everyone agrees with this change but a lot of people called for it on these forums. i believe the change is also an attempt to help with lag in cyrodil and make zergs easier to kill.

meteor reflect - i did not see anyone ask for this but the dev team may think reflect has an effect on the lag. they might also have changed this to make meteor slightly more effective against zergs.

cloak changes - probably the single most hated skill in the game by many. countless number of calls for nerfs. from what i can tell they did not nerf the skill directly, they just changed it so its not a counter to absolutely everything. alot of people will complain because they have used invisibility as a crutch and had success. of course they dont want to adapt but will be forced to do so

sorc "buffs" - i have read many discussions on the forums about the lack of sorc dps with exception to overload. by changing the cps, they may be trying to provide more diversity with magicka sorcs so not everyone has to run overload. no one truly knows how this will play out once it hits live servers. also by providing the physical resists (which has been asked for by alot of ppl on the forums), they may be making the first step in providing survivability to sorcs without having to rely on hardened ward. who knows what changes may come next? they also changed a star that now provides more damage against people with shields up (definitely not a buff to sorcs).

templars - i agree the bugs need to be fixed but none of us know how complex the issues are so who are we to judge? as far as "needed" buffs go, I personally find many well played templars pretty tough to combat on live as they are now. By just giving buffs across the board, they run the risk of making templars OP and screwing up balance even more.

Alot of the big changes actually were asked for by many people on these forums. I think that shows they were in fact listening to their player base. Just because they didnt exactly make the changes YOU were hoping for doesnt mean they werent. Its all still in the early stages on testing on PTS and we dont know how things will be tweaked before it all goes live. Even then, we still wont know the total effect for a while until everyone adapts and things settle down after all the changes. The backlash from some people is way too strong too early. Give it some time and let it take its course. Atleast they are making an attempt at fixing some of the major issues rather than completely ignoring them.

Khaos_Bane

Jaronking wrote: »

basically they buff magics classes this patch and than nerfed stamina classes damage.Than made no changes to accommodate the new sets ability or cp changes that boost the viability of magica builds in multiple aspects of the game while not also helping put stam builds.Which makes Magica the go to in PVP and PVE during the TG patch.

So basically in TG Stamina builds will be weaker than Magica Builds and they won't do anything for stam builds until DB.Which means no balanced was really made this patch and just made things worst actually because @Wrobel was to lazy to balance the game for all play styles.

I don't PvP a whole lot but haven't stamina classes been dominating PvP and DPS for a while?

ColtPython

remilafo wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

Title.

I genuinely don't know. Other than Stamina Sorcerers not getting anything I don't have any problems with the Thieves Guild Patch. And I play all 4 classes.

Why is everyone acting if the game has died. What terrible change did ZOS make, because from my view this patch is, the most balanced the game has been in a while. (Excluding Stam Sorcs)

So really, what is everyone's problem. Also please keep everything calm and relaxed no shouting or anger about nerfs, talk about them constructively

Oh man, i feel like i can write a book on why.. but i will try to just bullet points without expanding into details.

PvE:
- Where's the group content? same dungeons and trials since the beginning. Never updated and never scaled. You might argue there is new stuff but honestly it's all behind a paywall.
- Where the gear diversity? back when v12 was cap people actually ran builds man... today there is a BIS for mag and stam and everyone is running it.
- Intelligent mechanics and role importance... 3dps and 1 healer is all you need to win now and it's all about that burn baby... And the mechanics between dungeons are all the same.
- Economie is dead, trait RNG *** and BoP ***.

PvP: there is even less to say here because it is always being said on the forums. but basically
- Cyrodil lag, it's F*CKEN terrible.. The game is unacceptably responsive.
- Glaring pvp exploits, like spambush, perma invis NB's,
- glaring balance issues, over healing, Aoe Caps and ball groups.
- no content, cyrodil since day one and still cyrodil. IC is unfinished garbage.

There are many small QoL things that have been plaguing this game since launch, Class balance is an ongoing thing but it's not so much these things that are killing the game. It's the CORE fundamental issues with the game like the stuff i said above.

I have been pretty disappointed with the game for a few months now. I have pretty much stopped playing as well. I have been keeping up with the new changes coming to see if there was any reason to have hope again. I didn't even want to post on the forums anymore but this post is so spot on that I could not resist.

PVE:
Where is the group content? This has been my major gripe this entire time. I would like to see a vet dungeon for each regular dungeon. But, I have no hopes for that as I don't think they can charge for it so how will they make money off of it; therefore, I don't see it coming anytime soon. The same logic goes for the old trials and DSA. Why scale that up when you cannot charge for it? Instead, we were given a solo arena. This was probably the worst possible thing they could have added to the game. The key for me is 4 man group content. I do appreciate a 12 man raid and there should probably be one new raid at least each year. But four man group content is where this game is really fun and there should be one to two per DLC (ie. Imperial City).

As for the balance, this update looks so far lopsided in favor of magic that its sickening. Wrobel said that if they notice magic doing like 5k more dps than stam they will go back and do some hot adjusting. Perhaps, he does not realize that when you are in a top tier raiding group 1k is material enough to matter. Moreover, if magic dos is even close to stam and they are able to preform these numbers from range and offer additional team/personal benefits (ie NB funnel healing, sorc shields) then there is really no choice here.

Finally, the last ESO Live episode Wrobel address many concerns and suggestions and all of that could be summed up as "wait until Dark Brotherhood." Unfortunately, I have been waiting too long now and I am not buying it this time. I'll believe it when I see it.

PVP:
Pretty much says it all above.
IC was a blast when it was new. Then it was garbage.

vamp_emily

Why do I feel like this?



Next DLC = R.I.P. Vamp Emily

Islyn

Marrtha wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Since I don't chase max numbers, most of the changes don't matter to me. When they do, I just adjust gear, respec and move on.

With every major change, it takes me a week or two to get my characters back to where they were with killing mobs and it's no different than it was before.

Also, people just like to be angry and take it out on others, especially online. Has nothing to do with the game.

It does though.

As someone who healed people who jump in the middle of trash and hoped not to die, the BoL nerf IS going to be a ***. For Them.

I am done with healing most groups/all pugs other than my main groups I run with until they stop making it an unnecessary pain in my backside to heal people who go in there like wet noodles and expect me to fix it. Nope. Done with that.

The BoL nerf though is just a Poster Child for the Big Picture which is they literally cannot stop messing up the Templar Class and trying to make other classes without a whole tree for healing As Good for No Actual Reason.

This is down to whiners don't want to grind up an actual healer and instead would rather we who did, get a Big Boning all because why? They cannot be bothered to level a class with built in heals/support?

How can anyone who is capable of logical thought believe that they 'deserve' to have heals on par with Templars?

As long as they don't have a whole 1/3 their class skills dedicated to healing, they Do Not.

So we get knocked down to their level as some sort of nod to balance when in the end, it's anything but.

Finally, nope I am not even bitter about it. I will still be an excellent healer because I know my class AND my role. I'll still also be a good (not awesome because I need more practise with my relative newbie DK and Sorc) DPS because I went and leveled characters with which I can do that more easily.

Facts however are facts and trying to pretty this mess up is like putting perfume on a pig and calling it Daisy. Plain and Simple.

WillhelmBlack

The general dumbing down of the game. Not sure if I'm staying tbh, it'll be difficult to leave guild mates so may pop in for occasional PvE stuff.

Artjuh90

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

@Emma_Eunjung

Wait for what gameplay changes though? Not to sound rude but I don't really watch ESO Live sp I don't know what gamneplay changes people were thinking they were gonna get.

While there always issues with class balance, I think that Magicka/Stamina balance issues are even greater pain points for a lot of players. In PvP, Stamina builds have enjoyed massive advantages because 1) they can stack way more damage and 2) they can roll dodge, block and break CC much more often. In PvE, on the other hand, Magicka builds still have massive advantages of their own, as you can see by looking at the Vet Maelstrom leaderboards on any platform.

I think a lot of people (including myself) were expecting to see changes that help both Stamina and Magicka builds (as well as all 4 classes) compete well in both PvE and PvP. This didn't happen, and it sounds like we're going to have to wait (again) until the Dark Brotherhood DLC (aka Update 10) before we hear any good news.

they nerfed dogde rolling and cc break and blocking so hard we don't have that advantigde anymore

Kwivur

The new "Animation Smoothing" thing was completely uncalled for. If any of you have been on the PTS and tried animation cancelling, you're probably the anger he's talking about. I'm getting pissed just thinking about it.

Cherryblossom

I think some people are angry because every update there are more changes more bugs, more importantly no fixes.

eventide03b14a_ESO

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

Title.

I genuinely don't know. Other than Stamina Sorcerers not getting anything I don't have any problems with the Thieves Guild Patch. And I play all 4 classes.

Why is everyone acting if the game has died. What terrible change did ZOS make, because from my view this patch is, the most balanced the game has been in a while. (Excluding Stam Sorcs)

So really, what is everyone's problem. Also please keep everything calm and relaxed no shouting or anger about nerfs, talk about them constructively

When you say things like "give us feedback" and make "feedback" threads on the pts... What exactly was it you thought was going to happen?

It's human nature to argue for your benefit (and in many cases to argue against your nemesis).

By that logic, there are more than enough people that have real issues with nightblades in pvp and probably about a like amount that have problems with magicka sorcerers in pvp. There are also many templars that do not wish to be nerfed in any way shape or form. Most dk's believe they deserve more than they currently have.

By the way threads are generated by topic I'd say the biggest issues are cloak and damage shields. The argument for class hate isn't a good one regarding it, while there are always forum warriors trying to mold the game to their image.... I find it hard to argue against the sheer number of threads generated on those 2 topics.

Only logical problem I see is cloak being gutted is the ZOS response. Shield stackers are being offered a world where they win every fight, all they need to do is keep arguing for their own needs and get shield breaker nerfed. I strongly suspect the one change versus shields is barely a nick in their effectiveness.

There is no amount of nerfing they could do to shields, specifically the sorc shield, that would satisfy people, short of taking them away completely. I have come to the conclusion that every class is OP except the one that you play. The one you play is grossly underpowered and needs a buff but nerf all the rest (especially sorc).
Nobody wants to adjust their tactics, their gear, their spells. etc, to combat what they perceive to be "the problem" class.
Fighting a sorc is not like fighting most NBs. Yes they have shields, but they also tend to have little in the way of stamina and HP, you can use sets like shield breaker, stack dots and stun them so they can’t recast wards. Likewise NBs that use cloak can already be easily countered if you use potions, radiant magelight, revealing flare, etc. Don’t use projectiles that can be countered by DKs. But instead of adjusting our tactics, and putting pressure on them to focus their attentions on abilities that really are broken, we come onto the forums whine about how terrible our class is, and how OP that other class is and how it should be nerfed because it’s not fair….
This is why PvP is a mess right now and it’s affecting PvE too. They are desperately attempting to fix things that are not even broken because people don’t want to bother to learn how to play. And yes shield stacking is a problem, not to mention annoying. There were some who had very powerful shields and they stacked them. Those people ended up getting insanely high shields and then fought 100 people at once. ZOS’ solution of course wasn’t to just remove shield stacking, it was to nerf them in half. That obviously hasn’t solved the problem and in fact only encouraged sorcs to stack shields in an attempt to adapt to the reduced shields.

rfennell_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There is no amount of nerfing they could do to shields, specifically the sorc shield, that would satisfy people, short of taking them away completely. I have come to the conclusion that every class is OP except the one that you play. The one you play is grossly underpowered and needs a buff but nerf all the rest (especially sorc).
Nobody wants to adjust their tactics, their gear, their spells. etc, to combat what they perceive to be "the problem" class.
Fighting a sorc is not like fighting most NBs. Yes they have shields, but they also tend to have little in the way of stamina and HP, you can use sets like shield breaker, stack dots and stun them so they can’t recast wards. Likewise NBs that use cloak can already be easily countered if you use potions, radiant magelight, revealing flare, etc. Don’t use projectiles that can be countered by DKs. But instead of adjusting our tactics, and putting pressure on them to focus their attentions on abilities that really are broken, we come onto the forums whine about how terrible our class is, and how OP that other class is and how it should be nerfed because it’s not fair….
This is why PvP is a mess right now and it’s affecting PvE too. They are desperately attempting to fix things that are not even broken because people don’t want to bother to learn how to play. And yes shield stacking is a problem, not to mention annoying. There were some who had very powerful shields and they stacked them. Those people ended up getting insanely high shields and then fought 100 people at once. ZOS’ solution of course wasn’t to just remove shield stacking, it was to nerf them in half. That obviously hasn’t solved the problem and in fact only encouraged sorcs to stack shields in an attempt to adapt to the reduced shields.

Eh I think the problem with shields is the fact you can not crit them. It makes for the bigger the shields the less chance of ever getting through them a real problem.

It's pretty much broken in that anyone spamming shields gets total immunity to crits.

You just have to do the math on how much of a damage reduction (on top of the fact that they are mostly unaffected by resistances or resistance counters as well) that is and it's basically free of charge.

Kwivur

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

There is no amount of nerfing they could do to shields, specifically the sorc shield, that would satisfy people, short of taking them away completely. I have come to the conclusion that every class is OP except the one that you play. The one you play is grossly underpowered and needs a buff but nerf all the rest (especially sorc).
Nobody wants to adjust their tactics, their gear, their spells. etc, to combat what they perceive to be "the problem" class.
Fighting a sorc is not like fighting most NBs. Yes they have shields, but they also tend to have little in the way of stamina and HP, you can use sets like shield breaker, stack dots and stun them so they can’t recast wards. Likewise NBs that use cloak can already be easily countered if you use potions, radiant magelight, revealing flare, etc. Don’t use projectiles that can be countered by DKs. But instead of adjusting our tactics, and putting pressure on them to focus their attentions on abilities that really are broken, we come onto the forums whine about how terrible our class is, and how OP that other class is and how it should be nerfed because it’s not fair….
This is why PvP is a mess right now and it’s affecting PvE too. They are desperately attempting to fix things that are not even broken because people don’t want to bother to learn how to play. And yes shield stacking is a problem, not to mention annoying. There were some who had very powerful shields and they stacked them. Those people ended up getting insanely high shields and then fought 100 people at once. ZOS’ solution of course wasn’t to just remove shield stacking, it was to nerf them in half. That obviously hasn’t solved the problem and in fact only encouraged sorcs to stack shields in an attempt to adapt to the reduced shields.

Eh I think the problem with shields is the fact you can not crit them. It makes for the bigger the shields the less chance of ever getting through them a real problem.

It's pretty much broken in that anyone spamming shields gets total immunity to crits.

You just have to do the math on how much of a damage reduction (on top of the fact that they are mostly unaffected by resistances or resistance counters as well) that is and it's basically free of charge.

Ok, exactly how many pcs of impen do you wear on your armor?

yodased

I'm a bit upset its 81° and i'm inside coding...