Maintenance for the week of January 6:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
Templar nerfs being advertised as buffs, and other issues we want addressed during ESO Live tomorrow
Reposting this link from Reddit, please see the original post for functional links. I spent hours and hours writing it, I'm just too tired to format it again, so please consider reading it there.
https://reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/45bzxj/nerfs_to_templars_being_sold_as_buffs_and_other/
I'd like to first apologize for what will likely be a lengthy read. **ESO Live is tomorrow (2/11/16 at 4pm EST), and Templars really need visibility to voice our concerns and hopefully have them addressed when this happens**. I want to encourage you to leave your feedback below, to correct me if I am wrong, and to upvote constructive posts and responses to help them see the light of day.
**Breath of Life** (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.
To simplify it greatly, BoL currently heals one target for a large amount (let's call it 10) and two others for a lesser amount (we'll say 5). 10+5+5= 20. The proposed change will make it heal for 15. A 25% reduction.
To make up for it, we're being given Major Mending when standing within a rune or circle that we cast. It used to give 30%, but it is being dropped to 25% in this patch. So we lose 25%, we gain 25%, we're good, right? Breaking even?
Not quite. Currently, the Focused Healing passive increases the healing effects of Restoring Light abilities by 30% within the range of your rune/circle. **This means that the same BoL heal will do 30% less within a rune/circle, and 55% less healing outside of one if you do not get it recast or back in within 4 seconds**. Healing Ritual is also affected the same way.
The proposed changes require us to first cast a circle/rune and stay inside it if we want our heals to come close to doing what they used to (from the Restoring Light tree), and massively punish us for not being able to stay there. I agree the BoL could be too strong in PvP at times where a large number of healers were in the same location, but this is not the way to fix it. It negatively affects PvE content requiring multiple people to be healed from a distance while remaining mobile. The Molag Kena fight in WGT is a perfect example of this.
Templars aren't the only healers in the world, obviously. Content gets done all the time without BoL. Nightblades, for example, make fantastic healers because they are *constantly* doing damage while healing others. Their Funnel Health ability is also being nerfed by 25%. But, in my opinion, this fix for PvP is the wrong way to go about it, as it hurts us in PvE greatly. We have an entire skill line dedicated towards healing that now only serves as a buff to the restoration staff line (something everyone has access to).
There are many solutions, including a diminished amount of health received if the person being healed is knocked down on the ground, or a lesser amount of heals going to the secondary and tertiary allies. What do you think should be done?
**Puncturing Sweeps**
This thread details a stealth nerf of [5% reduction to the heal received from puncturing sweeps.
Imagine, if you will, having to always cast a rune/circle and then stay in it (without leaving for more than 4 seconds) or you'll take a loss to healing received. This is an inherent problem with our class, as they continue to introduce content that expects us to stay mobile but requires us to remain stationary. Most human enemies will try to move away from your sweeps, causing you to have to move again. In addition, you're going to have to lose a skill on your bars and replace it with rune/circle if you don't already run it.
**Focused Charge**: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.
Immediately, multiple threads appeared with [videos demonstrating that this ability is still broken. Their response was:
> To follow up on this, we do still have some outstanding issues with Focused Charge despite the written patch note. The fix we implemented should make it better, but we do understand it's not perfect yet.
When asked for an ETA to a fix, Gina Bruno said "I honestly don't know, sorry" and then this:
> Totally understand everyone's frustration. To be clear, the patch note for this ability isn't incorrect - we did implement some fixes to make it better - but it's just not 100% fully fixed (as noted by the OP).
Toppling Charge has been broken for 2 years now. It is our gap closer, our cast interrupt, sets off balance, stuns, it procs burning light, and provides 10% crit strike damage. We need this thing to work, and many people have given up on slotting it. Right now, the only workaround is to waste a potion when you don't need it (meaning it will probably be on cooldown when you do), and to use a stamina gap closer when magic Templars are already struggling with stamina.
Solutions? Some have suggested using the same animation that ambush/lotus fan does, and have us "streak through light and deal magic damage". My favorite idea is to use the animation that warriors in Wrothgar do (where they teleport straight up into the sky and the flash downward on their target).
**Healing Ritual**: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.
ZOS really seems to want us to use this ability, but has yet to address the main complaints: the lack of mobility while casting, and the range of the heal. Reducing the cast time is a good start (now 1.5 seconds, and 1.27 for the "faster" morph).
Healing Ritual has a range of 10m. This is 2m larger than Puncturing Sweeps. Think about that. Next time you see a Templar sweeping/jabbing, think how close you need to be to stay in range of the heal. Furthermore, HR suffers from the same 30/55% nerf listed under BoL if you are unable to cast or stay within a circle/rune.
Ideas?
I'd like to see a stamina morph for this. And for the magicka morph, have it "charge up" a damage shield that will dissipate with time and damage taken. This would allow us to act preventatively instead of reactively.
**Rune Focus**: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.
Again, ZOS continues to design content requiring us to be mobile, but expects our class to remain stationary.
Solution? Have the rune move with you, similar to the way Proximity Detonation works. **This simple change would fix almost every issue stated in this post concerning our heals.**
**Backlash**: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but **decreased their damage stored amount by 66%**. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.
According to a forum post from phillyboy7897, Backlash is taking a double hit from battle spirit. He states:
> "The reason is the 66% of damage stored reduction is compounding on top of player mitigation and battle spirit ... In PvP every 10,000 raw damage I am putting out is making backlash hit for 165. This is horrendous. No one will use it."
**Radiant Aura** (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.
This change was supposed to make the morph more desirable in contrast to the more frequently used Repentance. Major Intellect is not going to cut it. Every magic user that has garbage Essence of Magicka potion, in addition to Spell Power potions, is already getting Major Intellect from them.
If you want to make the other morph competitive, I have the perfect solution. Make it exactly the same as Repentance, but have it restore magicka instead of stamina. It still only applies to those in your group, and you can't repentance a corpse more than once, so multiple people using opposing morphs will only be able to receive one buff at a time.
**Eclipse**: This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles. Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target.
> Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): Increased the area damage when the effect ends by 50% and can be placed on an unlimited amount of targets, but it no longer reflects single target spells back to the enemy.
It is unclear whether Unstable Core is meant to reflect physical projectiles, but it is certain that it does not reflect single target spells. Anyone that spent 10 seconds reading these patch notes will know that if they see more than one bubble around them, then the caster is using the Unstable Core morph, and they are therefore not in danger of hurting themselves. Furthermore, there is no imperative to CC break free of it, so they can just ride the time out. Lastly, abilities/spells will only be able to be reflected one time (this affects DK wings, Defensive Posture, etc).
Perhaps a stamina morph of this, that functions similar to the magic morph? Or a DoT, or a healing debuff while applied? What do you think?
**Barrier**: Reduced the amount of targets this ability and its morphs affect to a maximum of 6 targets, previously 20 targets.
With this change, Barrier will now shield less than 1/3 of the targets that would have previously received its benefits. This will be hugely detrimental in PvE trial content, where there are 12 players. We've all seen the times that "smart healing/targeting" has gone wrong, and can we even be sure that if 2 people cast Barrier, it will cover all 12? I understand toning it down for PvP, but this is a *huge* change for PvE.
Solution? Make it hit 6 targets in PvP and 12 in PvE.
**Radial Sweep**: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.
One more meter just isn't enough. For comparison, spears and jabs are 8 meters. Dawnbreaker is 10. Shooting star and Nova are 28.
Solution? Make it 16m, and have it apply a sweeping knockdown to everything it hits (similar to the "popcorn" effect from the Volcanic Rune ability.
*Radiant Ward**: (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.
Again, 1% just isn't enough. To truly make this skill viable (and other % of health abilities, such as Dragon's Blood and Drain Essence), let it pass through the Battle Spirit buff and work in Cyrodiil without being cut in half. These skills would become so useful if we could use them in PvP, and I know DKs would love to have their heal back.
**Magelight**: This ability and its morphs are no longer toggle abilities; instead, they will grant their Critical Strike rating benefits as long as they are slotted (similar to Expert Hunter).
> Magelight can now be activated to summon a mote of magelight which exposes hidden or invisible enemies in an 8 meter radius for 5 seconds, and prevents revealed enemies from returning to stealth for 5 seconds.
> This ability and the Radiant Magelight morph no longer decrease your maximum Magicka, due to the toggle changes noted above.
> The Radiant Magelight morph will continue to prevent you from being stunned by stealth attacks, and will reduce damage from stealth attacks while slotted as a morph effect. Activating it also increases the radius of the activated reveal to 12 meters, and reduces the cost.
>**The Inner Light morph will continue to increase your maximum Magicka while slotted.**
In order to keep the max magicka buff, Inner Light continues to require it to be slotted on both bars. I believe changes may be in the works for this already, but Radiant Magelight should exclusively reveal stealth characters and Inner Light should provide the max magic on *both* bars if slotted on one.
**Rapid Maneuvers**: This ability and its morphs now also remove their bonuses whenever you cast a friendly ability on an ally, as well as a damaging ability on an enemy.
While I'm alright with the rest of the changes to this ability, I disagree with this one. Anyone that runs through the sewers knows that occasionally you'll need to heal your team as they run. Now, you will be the only one to lose your speed while the rest of your team continues to run forward without their healer; directly punishing the healer for healing.
Solution? Reverse this change. Perhaps I simply shouldn't run it, and leave it for a stamina based class, but Templars fulfill the role of support as well as healing. It's a needless change.
**Meteor**: This was the only Ultimate that you were previously able to reflect, so this change was simply bringing it in line with all other Ultimates. We also plan on making a slight reduction to the snare on the Ice Comet morph.
With the changes to purify, we will no longer be able to cleanse/purify an incoming projectile, such as meteor. However, Gina Bruno's logic doesn't hold up, as the Sorcerer ultimate Overload is able to be reflected. Additionally, you can sidestep a Nova, Standard, Dragonleap, Dawnbreaker, etc. You can break out of a Negate. There are many ultimates that can be avoided, why not Meteor?
**Balanced Warrior** (Aedric Spear Passive): Increases your Weapon Dmg by 6% and your spell resist by 2640.
To "balance" this, add 6% spell damage.
**Champion Point Changes**
> **Elemental Expert**: This ability now increases Flame, Frost, Shock, and Magic Damage dealt by you, instead of Flame, Frost, and Shock Damage only.
> **Thaumaturge**: This ability now increases the damage done by damage over time effects, instead of increasing Poison, Disease, and Magic Damage.
Templars rely almost entirely on abilities that are either DoTs or channeled. To remain competitive, we will have to put points into both trees, rather than being able to put 100 in Elemental Expert and the rest into Elfborn like other ...ahem... classes are able to.
**SUMMARY**
Templars have an entire skill tree devoted towards healing that now depends on casting and remaining within a circle/rune or they will perform less healing than they currently do in live. This tree essentially has become a buff to the restoration line, which all classes have access to. We lose our uniqueness and sense of class with these proposed changes, and yet our primary concerns remain unaddressed. We lack mobility, our skills are broken, and the alternate morphs we're being offered are poorly designed.
Adjustments to our class should not be exclusively based on PvP because it also affects us in PvE. One change should not ruin the other, unless ZOS is willing to balance them separately.
This thread is filled with the feedback from your actual community that comprises players that PvE *and* PvP. Please listen to it, and take it into consideration during ESO Live. We don't want to be forced to become "healbots". Additionally, we don't want to be forced to have a skill on our bar just to make up for the proposed nerfs.
Thank you for your time, I know this was a long read.
MrJagermeister
https://reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/45bzxj/nerfs_to_templars_being_sold_as_buffs_and_other/
I'd like to first apologize for what will likely be a lengthy read. **ESO Live is tomorrow (2/11/16 at 4pm EST), and Templars really need visibility to voice our concerns and hopefully have them addressed when this happens**. I want to encourage you to leave your feedback below, to correct me if I am wrong, and to upvote constructive posts and responses to help them see the light of day.
**Breath of Life** (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.
To simplify it greatly, BoL currently heals one target for a large amount (let's call it 10) and two others for a lesser amount (we'll say 5). 10+5+5= 20. The proposed change will make it heal for 15. A 25% reduction.
To make up for it, we're being given Major Mending when standing within a rune or circle that we cast. It used to give 30%, but it is being dropped to 25% in this patch. So we lose 25%, we gain 25%, we're good, right? Breaking even?
Not quite. Currently, the Focused Healing passive increases the healing effects of Restoring Light abilities by 30% within the range of your rune/circle. **This means that the same BoL heal will do 30% less within a rune/circle, and 55% less healing outside of one if you do not get it recast or back in within 4 seconds**. Healing Ritual is also affected the same way.
The proposed changes require us to first cast a circle/rune and stay inside it if we want our heals to come close to doing what they used to (from the Restoring Light tree), and massively punish us for not being able to stay there. I agree the BoL could be too strong in PvP at times where a large number of healers were in the same location, but this is not the way to fix it. It negatively affects PvE content requiring multiple people to be healed from a distance while remaining mobile. The Molag Kena fight in WGT is a perfect example of this.
Templars aren't the only healers in the world, obviously. Content gets done all the time without BoL. Nightblades, for example, make fantastic healers because they are *constantly* doing damage while healing others. Their Funnel Health ability is also being nerfed by 25%. But, in my opinion, this fix for PvP is the wrong way to go about it, as it hurts us in PvE greatly. We have an entire skill line dedicated towards healing that now only serves as a buff to the restoration staff line (something everyone has access to).
There are many solutions, including a diminished amount of health received if the person being healed is knocked down on the ground, or a lesser amount of heals going to the secondary and tertiary allies. What do you think should be done?
**Puncturing Sweeps**
This thread details a stealth nerf of [5% reduction to the heal received from puncturing sweeps.
Imagine, if you will, having to always cast a rune/circle and then stay in it (without leaving for more than 4 seconds) or you'll take a loss to healing received. This is an inherent problem with our class, as they continue to introduce content that expects us to stay mobile but requires us to remain stationary. Most human enemies will try to move away from your sweeps, causing you to have to move again. In addition, you're going to have to lose a skill on your bars and replace it with rune/circle if you don't already run it.
**Focused Charge**: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.
Immediately, multiple threads appeared with [videos demonstrating that this ability is still broken. Their response was:
> To follow up on this, we do still have some outstanding issues with Focused Charge despite the written patch note. The fix we implemented should make it better, but we do understand it's not perfect yet.
When asked for an ETA to a fix, Gina Bruno said "I honestly don't know, sorry" and then this:
> Totally understand everyone's frustration. To be clear, the patch note for this ability isn't incorrect - we did implement some fixes to make it better - but it's just not 100% fully fixed (as noted by the OP).
Toppling Charge has been broken for 2 years now. It is our gap closer, our cast interrupt, sets off balance, stuns, it procs burning light, and provides 10% crit strike damage. We need this thing to work, and many people have given up on slotting it. Right now, the only workaround is to waste a potion when you don't need it (meaning it will probably be on cooldown when you do), and to use a stamina gap closer when magic Templars are already struggling with stamina.
Solutions? Some have suggested using the same animation that ambush/lotus fan does, and have us "streak through light and deal magic damage". My favorite idea is to use the animation that warriors in Wrothgar do (where they teleport straight up into the sky and the flash downward on their target).
**Healing Ritual**: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.
ZOS really seems to want us to use this ability, but has yet to address the main complaints: the lack of mobility while casting, and the range of the heal. Reducing the cast time is a good start (now 1.5 seconds, and 1.27 for the "faster" morph).
Healing Ritual has a range of 10m. This is 2m larger than Puncturing Sweeps. Think about that. Next time you see a Templar sweeping/jabbing, think how close you need to be to stay in range of the heal. Furthermore, HR suffers from the same 30/55% nerf listed under BoL if you are unable to cast or stay within a circle/rune.
Ideas?
I'd like to see a stamina morph for this. And for the magicka morph, have it "charge up" a damage shield that will dissipate with time and damage taken. This would allow us to act preventatively instead of reactively.
**Rune Focus**: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.
Again, ZOS continues to design content requiring us to be mobile, but expects our class to remain stationary.
Solution? Have the rune move with you, similar to the way Proximity Detonation works. **This simple change would fix almost every issue stated in this post concerning our heals.**
**Backlash**: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but **decreased their damage stored amount by 66%**. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.
According to a forum post from phillyboy7897, Backlash is taking a double hit from battle spirit. He states:
> "The reason is the 66% of damage stored reduction is compounding on top of player mitigation and battle spirit ... In PvP every 10,000 raw damage I am putting out is making backlash hit for 165. This is horrendous. No one will use it."
**Radiant Aura** (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.
This change was supposed to make the morph more desirable in contrast to the more frequently used Repentance. Major Intellect is not going to cut it. Every magic user that has garbage Essence of Magicka potion, in addition to Spell Power potions, is already getting Major Intellect from them.
If you want to make the other morph competitive, I have the perfect solution. Make it exactly the same as Repentance, but have it restore magicka instead of stamina. It still only applies to those in your group, and you can't repentance a corpse more than once, so multiple people using opposing morphs will only be able to receive one buff at a time.
**Eclipse**: This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles. Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target.
> Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): Increased the area damage when the effect ends by 50% and can be placed on an unlimited amount of targets, but it no longer reflects single target spells back to the enemy.
It is unclear whether Unstable Core is meant to reflect physical projectiles, but it is certain that it does not reflect single target spells. Anyone that spent 10 seconds reading these patch notes will know that if they see more than one bubble around them, then the caster is using the Unstable Core morph, and they are therefore not in danger of hurting themselves. Furthermore, there is no imperative to CC break free of it, so they can just ride the time out. Lastly, abilities/spells will only be able to be reflected one time (this affects DK wings, Defensive Posture, etc).
Perhaps a stamina morph of this, that functions similar to the magic morph? Or a DoT, or a healing debuff while applied? What do you think?
**Barrier**: Reduced the amount of targets this ability and its morphs affect to a maximum of 6 targets, previously 20 targets.
With this change, Barrier will now shield less than 1/3 of the targets that would have previously received its benefits. This will be hugely detrimental in PvE trial content, where there are 12 players. We've all seen the times that "smart healing/targeting" has gone wrong, and can we even be sure that if 2 people cast Barrier, it will cover all 12? I understand toning it down for PvP, but this is a *huge* change for PvE.
Solution? Make it hit 6 targets in PvP and 12 in PvE.
**Radial Sweep**: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.
One more meter just isn't enough. For comparison, spears and jabs are 8 meters. Dawnbreaker is 10. Shooting star and Nova are 28.
Solution? Make it 16m, and have it apply a sweeping knockdown to everything it hits (similar to the "popcorn" effect from the Volcanic Rune ability.
*Radiant Ward**: (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.
Again, 1% just isn't enough. To truly make this skill viable (and other % of health abilities, such as Dragon's Blood and Drain Essence), let it pass through the Battle Spirit buff and work in Cyrodiil without being cut in half. These skills would become so useful if we could use them in PvP, and I know DKs would love to have their heal back.
**Magelight**: This ability and its morphs are no longer toggle abilities; instead, they will grant their Critical Strike rating benefits as long as they are slotted (similar to Expert Hunter).
> Magelight can now be activated to summon a mote of magelight which exposes hidden or invisible enemies in an 8 meter radius for 5 seconds, and prevents revealed enemies from returning to stealth for 5 seconds.
> This ability and the Radiant Magelight morph no longer decrease your maximum Magicka, due to the toggle changes noted above.
> The Radiant Magelight morph will continue to prevent you from being stunned by stealth attacks, and will reduce damage from stealth attacks while slotted as a morph effect. Activating it also increases the radius of the activated reveal to 12 meters, and reduces the cost.
>**The Inner Light morph will continue to increase your maximum Magicka while slotted.**
In order to keep the max magicka buff, Inner Light continues to require it to be slotted on both bars. I believe changes may be in the works for this already, but Radiant Magelight should exclusively reveal stealth characters and Inner Light should provide the max magic on *both* bars if slotted on one.
**Rapid Maneuvers**: This ability and its morphs now also remove their bonuses whenever you cast a friendly ability on an ally, as well as a damaging ability on an enemy.
While I'm alright with the rest of the changes to this ability, I disagree with this one. Anyone that runs through the sewers knows that occasionally you'll need to heal your team as they run. Now, you will be the only one to lose your speed while the rest of your team continues to run forward without their healer; directly punishing the healer for healing.
Solution? Reverse this change. Perhaps I simply shouldn't run it, and leave it for a stamina based class, but Templars fulfill the role of support as well as healing. It's a needless change.
**Meteor**: This was the only Ultimate that you were previously able to reflect, so this change was simply bringing it in line with all other Ultimates. We also plan on making a slight reduction to the snare on the Ice Comet morph.
With the changes to purify, we will no longer be able to cleanse/purify an incoming projectile, such as meteor. However, Gina Bruno's logic doesn't hold up, as the Sorcerer ultimate Overload is able to be reflected. Additionally, you can sidestep a Nova, Standard, Dragonleap, Dawnbreaker, etc. You can break out of a Negate. There are many ultimates that can be avoided, why not Meteor?
**Balanced Warrior** (Aedric Spear Passive): Increases your Weapon Dmg by 6% and your spell resist by 2640.
To "balance" this, add 6% spell damage.
**Champion Point Changes**
> **Elemental Expert**: This ability now increases Flame, Frost, Shock, and Magic Damage dealt by you, instead of Flame, Frost, and Shock Damage only.
> **Thaumaturge**: This ability now increases the damage done by damage over time effects, instead of increasing Poison, Disease, and Magic Damage.
Templars rely almost entirely on abilities that are either DoTs or channeled. To remain competitive, we will have to put points into both trees, rather than being able to put 100 in Elemental Expert and the rest into Elfborn like other ...ahem... classes are able to.
**SUMMARY**
Templars have an entire skill tree devoted towards healing that now depends on casting and remaining within a circle/rune or they will perform less healing than they currently do in live. This tree essentially has become a buff to the restoration line, which all classes have access to. We lose our uniqueness and sense of class with these proposed changes, and yet our primary concerns remain unaddressed. We lack mobility, our skills are broken, and the alternate morphs we're being offered are poorly designed.
Adjustments to our class should not be exclusively based on PvP because it also affects us in PvE. One change should not ruin the other, unless ZOS is willing to balance them separately.
This thread is filled with the feedback from your actual community that comprises players that PvE *and* PvP. Please listen to it, and take it into consideration during ESO Live. We don't want to be forced to become "healbots". Additionally, we don't want to be forced to have a skill on our bar just to make up for the proposed nerfs.
Thank you for your time, I know this was a long read.
MrJagermeister
12
-
Ilterendi✭✭✭Not that I disagree with you, but Nightblades are losing a defining class ability... I'd like to hear why the hell the devs believe this ability needs to be nerfed so utterly and in one swoop.1 -
Not that I disagree with you, but Nightblades are losing a defining class ability... I'd like to hear why the hell the devs believe this ability needs to be nerfed so utterly and in one swoop.
I play a nightblade healer as well, so I feel your pain on this one. Both BoL and Funnel Health are getting the workover. It's going to be hard healing some content without either of them being as effective. I would rather have them tone down the amount of healing to additional targets than to simply not heal one of them. Some content simply has all allies being damaged simultaneously, and you just have to heal through it.
And if you're referencing the changes to cloak, don't get me started. What they're doing with magelight is insane. And forcing people to use the new Efficient (Expensive) Purge is ridiculous.
Edited by MrJagermeister on February 12, 2016 3:08AM3 -
MormondPayne_EP✭✭✭✭Oh shut the hell up about Nightblades!!!!
You come into a Templar thread and start bitching about how hard done by NB's are...
The nerve...6 -
david.haypreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great OP. I especially like your suggestion for Rune Focus.
Sadly, it does not seem like the Dev team (especially Wrobel) is listening to the Templar community as a whole, and has not been for over a year. One streamer and his buddies seem to be all they are listening to, to the great detriment of the class.
We've waited a year to have our issues addressed, and instead of fixes and buffs, we get nerfs (BoL) and inaction (Toppling Charge).
Please make your voices heard; we likely won't get another chance for another year, if ever.Templars are 'just slower... by design'
Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
VR 16 Sorcerer
38 Nightblade
24 DK3 -
elium85✭✭✭Sorry OP but I disagree. Yes BoL is taking a hit but CP and HS are way more effective heals for Templars with the changes.
Also, the DF and CP changes greatly increase Templar DPS and put it in line with other Magicka classes.2 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Also, the DF and CP changes greatly increase Templar DPS and put it in line with other Magicka classes.
Burst DPS maybe, but there are better DPS setups for sustained DPS than DF.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
GreenGhostMan✭✭✭The templar/paladin/holy knight has always been my favorite type of class in any RPG in terms of look and lore, but they always seem to be handicapped or a utility class that doesn't excel in any specific role. Not really sure why this is always the case. Give us a break already!Alozar [] AD [] vet7 High Elf Templar
Dronus Agni [] AD [] 9 Redguard DK
Vaden Luxor [] AD [] 4 Redguard Templar3 -
Seido_Tensei_✭✭✭I was very optimistic for the changes, especially for Stamplar. However the changes they are making to the game as a whole and the utter contempt @ZOS shows Templars is just too much (just look at today's ESO Live). I am going to ride out the last few weeks for my sub then I think I will need to move on. A game should not be frustrating, but the lack of balance or accountability among @ZOS is infuriating. Props to all those who have stuck it out over 1.5 years. I picked up ESO on console and fully expected to play as long as the game was supported. Sadly, I barely made it past 6 months.
Templars, I hope you achieve some form of balance in the future. Amazing class with limitless potential if only @ZOS would allow us to enjoy our class as it should be. Why have feedback threads if they are to be ignored? I don't understand.4 -
Ilterendi✭✭✭MormondPayne_EP wrote: »Oh shut the hell up about Nightblades!!!!
You come into a Templar thread and start bitching about how hard done by NB's are...
The nerve...
You're cute. Getting all angry on the interwebs. I didn't down-play the Templar nerfs. They should be addressed, well.
I also feel like the essential removal of a class-defining ability that exists as an escape(one of the only good ones afforded to NBs) is getting gutted. Also keep in mind that the class uses its time in stealth/invisibility to set up follow up moves. I get that you don't enjoy playing against NBs. Maybe you can't counter them or you find them to be an annoyance, whatever the case. Remember. You have NBs on your team as well.
What should also be addressed is the lack of a sufficient stamina dump that is useable by DKs and Sorcerers that decide to specialize in a stamina play style. Off the cuff, a morph of whip would add some creative flavor to Stamina DKs. Im at a loss for how to do this for stamsorcs...Edited by Ilterendi on February 13, 2016 1:07AM1 -
elium85✭✭✭@timidobserver Agreed! I think the CP changes effect the Templar class more then any other and boost basically all the skills in my standard DPS rotation by about 12%. Cannot wait!0
-
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MormondPayne_EP wrote: »Oh shut the hell up about Nightblades!!!!
You come into a Templar thread and start bitching about how hard done by NB's are...
The nerve...
Lets be fair, Nightblades had a lot of problems at the outset of the game. The power they got to enjoy for a while was a more recent thing.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>2 -
david.haypreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »
Lets be fair, Nightblades had a lot of problems at the outset of the game. The power they got to enjoy for a while was a more recent thing.
True. Unlike Templars, though, who have never had a moment in the sun since Restoring Spirit was nerfed in beta.
Templars are 'just slower... by design'
Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
VR 16 Sorcerer
38 Nightblade
24 DK2 -
Ilterendi✭✭✭That's the thing. I don't care who the king of the molehill is. I just don't want to play a broken class, as I'm sure you don't either. Agreed though, Templars had a very brief time on top but quickly received a nerf to jabs. I don't mind seeing them lead the board. Hell, anything to knock Sorcs (Magicka) down a couple pegs. Those guys are whack.1
-
Essiaga✭✭✭✭MrJagermeister wrote: »Reposting this link from Reddit, please see the original post for functional links. I spent hours and hours writing it, I'm just too tired to format it again, so please consider reading it there.
https://reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/45bzxj/nerfs_to_templars_being_sold_as_buffs_and_other/
I'd like to first apologize for what will likely be a lengthy read. **ESO Live is tomorrow (2/11/16 at 4pm EST), and Templars really need visibility to voice our concerns and hopefully have them addressed when this happens**. I want to encourage you to leave your feedback below, to correct me if I am wrong, and to upvote constructive posts and responses to help them see the light of day.
**Breath of Life** (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.
To simplify it greatly, BoL currently heals one target for a large amount (let's call it 10) and two others for a lesser amount (we'll say 5). 10+5+5= 20. The proposed change will make it heal for 15. A 25% reduction.
To make up for it, we're being given Major Mending when standing within a rune or circle that we cast. It used to give 30%, but it is being dropped to 25% in this patch. So we lose 25%, we gain 25%, we're good, right? Breaking even?
Not quite. Currently, the Focused Healing passive increases the healing effects of Restoring Light abilities by 30% within the range of your rune/circle. **This means that the same BoL heal will do 30% less within a rune/circle, and 55% less healing outside of one if you do not get it recast or back in within 4 seconds**. Healing Ritual is also affected the same way.
The proposed changes require us to first cast a circle/rune and stay inside it if we want our heals to come close to doing what they used to (from the Restoring Light tree), and massively punish us for not being able to stay there. I agree the BoL could be too strong in PvP at times where a large number of healers were in the same location, but this is not the way to fix it. It negatively affects PvE content requiring multiple people to be healed from a distance while remaining mobile. The Molag Kena fight in WGT is a perfect example of this.
Templars aren't the only healers in the world, obviously. Content gets done all the time without BoL. Nightblades, for example, make fantastic healers because they are *constantly* doing damage while healing others. Their Funnel Health ability is also being nerfed by 25%. But, in my opinion, this fix for PvP is the wrong way to go about it, as it hurts us in PvE greatly. We have an entire skill line dedicated towards healing that now only serves as a buff to the restoration staff line (something everyone has access to).
There are many solutions, including a diminished amount of health received if the person being healed is knocked down on the ground, or a lesser amount of heals going to the secondary and tertiary allies. What do you think should be done?
**Puncturing Sweeps**
This thread details a stealth nerf of [5% reduction to the heal received from puncturing sweeps.
Imagine, if you will, having to always cast a rune/circle and then stay in it (without leaving for more than 4 seconds) or you'll take a loss to healing received. This is an inherent problem with our class, as they continue to introduce content that expects us to stay mobile but requires us to remain stationary. Most human enemies will try to move away from your sweeps, causing you to have to move again. In addition, you're going to have to lose a skill on your bars and replace it with rune/circle if you don't already run it.
**Focused Charge**: This ability and its morphs are now more responsive, and will no longer cause you to become stuck in the charge animation.
Immediately, multiple threads appeared with [videos demonstrating that this ability is still broken. Their response was:
> To follow up on this, we do still have some outstanding issues with Focused Charge despite the written patch note. The fix we implemented should make it better, but we do understand it's not perfect yet.
When asked for an ETA to a fix, Gina Bruno said "I honestly don't know, sorry" and then this:
> Totally understand everyone's frustration. To be clear, the patch note for this ability isn't incorrect - we did implement some fixes to make it better - but it's just not 100% fully fixed (as noted by the OP).
Toppling Charge has been broken for 2 years now. It is our gap closer, our cast interrupt, sets off balance, stuns, it procs burning light, and provides 10% crit strike damage. We need this thing to work, and many people have given up on slotting it. Right now, the only workaround is to waste a potion when you don't need it (meaning it will probably be on cooldown when you do), and to use a stamina gap closer when magic Templars are already struggling with stamina.
Solutions? Some have suggested using the same animation that ambush/lotus fan does, and have us "streak through light and deal magic damage". My favorite idea is to use the animation that warriors in Wrothgar do (where they teleport straight up into the sky and the flash downward on their target).
**Healing Ritual**: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.
ZOS really seems to want us to use this ability, but has yet to address the main complaints: the lack of mobility while casting, and the range of the heal. Reducing the cast time is a good start (now 1.5 seconds, and 1.27 for the "faster" morph).
Healing Ritual has a range of 10m. This is 2m larger than Puncturing Sweeps. Think about that. Next time you see a Templar sweeping/jabbing, think how close you need to be to stay in range of the heal. Furthermore, HR suffers from the same 30/55% nerf listed under BoL if you are unable to cast or stay within a circle/rune.
Ideas?
I'd like to see a stamina morph for this. And for the magicka morph, have it "charge up" a damage shield that will dissipate with time and damage taken. This would allow us to act preventatively instead of reactively.
**Rune Focus**: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.
Again, ZOS continues to design content requiring us to be mobile, but expects our class to remain stationary.
Solution? Have the rune move with you, similar to the way Proximity Detonation works. **This simple change would fix almost every issue stated in this post concerning our heals.**
**Backlash**: Increased the maximum damage limit for this ability and its morphs by 25%, but **decreased their damage stored amount by 66%**. In addition, this ability and its morphs can no longer be reflected.
According to a forum post from phillyboy7897, Backlash is taking a double hit from battle spirit. He states:
> "The reason is the 66% of damage stored reduction is compounding on top of player mitigation and battle spirit ... In PvP every 10,000 raw damage I am putting out is making backlash hit for 165. This is horrendous. No one will use it."
**Radiant Aura** (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.
This change was supposed to make the morph more desirable in contrast to the more frequently used Repentance. Major Intellect is not going to cut it. Every magic user that has garbage Essence of Magicka potion, in addition to Spell Power potions, is already getting Major Intellect from them.
If you want to make the other morph competitive, I have the perfect solution. Make it exactly the same as Repentance, but have it restore magicka instead of stamina. It still only applies to those in your group, and you can't repentance a corpse more than once, so multiple people using opposing morphs will only be able to receive one buff at a time.
**Eclipse**: This ability and the Total Dark morph can now reflect ranged physical projectiles back to the enemy, in addition to spell projectiles. Revised the tooltips for this ability and the Total Dark morph to indicate that the area damage effect is separate from the self-reflect effect, and can be applied to a CC-immune target.
> Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): Increased the area damage when the effect ends by 50% and can be placed on an unlimited amount of targets, but it no longer reflects single target spells back to the enemy.
It is unclear whether Unstable Core is meant to reflect physical projectiles, but it is certain that it does not reflect single target spells. Anyone that spent 10 seconds reading these patch notes will know that if they see more than one bubble around them, then the caster is using the Unstable Core morph, and they are therefore not in danger of hurting themselves. Furthermore, there is no imperative to CC break free of it, so they can just ride the time out. Lastly, abilities/spells will only be able to be reflected one time (this affects DK wings, Defensive Posture, etc).
Perhaps a stamina morph of this, that functions similar to the magic morph? Or a DoT, or a healing debuff while applied? What do you think?
**Barrier**: Reduced the amount of targets this ability and its morphs affect to a maximum of 6 targets, previously 20 targets.
With this change, Barrier will now shield less than 1/3 of the targets that would have previously received its benefits. This will be hugely detrimental in PvE trial content, where there are 12 players. We've all seen the times that "smart healing/targeting" has gone wrong, and can we even be sure that if 2 people cast Barrier, it will cover all 12? I understand toning it down for PvP, but this is a *huge* change for PvE.
Solution? Make it hit 6 targets in PvP and 12 in PvE.
**Radial Sweep**: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 6 meters from 5 meters.
One more meter just isn't enough. For comparison, spears and jabs are 8 meters. Dawnbreaker is 10. Shooting star and Nova are 28.
Solution? Make it 16m, and have it apply a sweeping knockdown to everything it hits (similar to the "popcorn" effect from the Volcanic Rune ability.
*Radiant Ward**: (Sun Shield morph): Increased the shield strength bonus from this morph’s shield to 6% per enemy hit from 5%.
Again, 1% just isn't enough. To truly make this skill viable (and other % of health abilities, such as Dragon's Blood and Drain Essence), let it pass through the Battle Spirit buff and work in Cyrodiil without being cut in half. These skills would become so useful if we could use them in PvP, and I know DKs would love to have their heal back.
**Magelight**: This ability and its morphs are no longer toggle abilities; instead, they will grant their Critical Strike rating benefits as long as they are slotted (similar to Expert Hunter).
> Magelight can now be activated to summon a mote of magelight which exposes hidden or invisible enemies in an 8 meter radius for 5 seconds, and prevents revealed enemies from returning to stealth for 5 seconds.
> This ability and the Radiant Magelight morph no longer decrease your maximum Magicka, due to the toggle changes noted above.
> The Radiant Magelight morph will continue to prevent you from being stunned by stealth attacks, and will reduce damage from stealth attacks while slotted as a morph effect. Activating it also increases the radius of the activated reveal to 12 meters, and reduces the cost.
>**The Inner Light morph will continue to increase your maximum Magicka while slotted.**
In order to keep the max magicka buff, Inner Light continues to require it to be slotted on both bars. I believe changes may be in the works for this already, but Radiant Magelight should exclusively reveal stealth characters and Inner Light should provide the max magic on *both* bars if slotted on one.
**Rapid Maneuvers**: This ability and its morphs now also remove their bonuses whenever you cast a friendly ability on an ally, as well as a damaging ability on an enemy.
While I'm alright with the rest of the changes to this ability, I disagree with this one. Anyone that runs through the sewers knows that occasionally you'll need to heal your team as they run. Now, you will be the only one to lose your speed while the rest of your team continues to run forward without their healer; directly punishing the healer for healing.
Solution? Reverse this change. Perhaps I simply shouldn't run it, and leave it for a stamina based class, but Templars fulfill the role of support as well as healing. It's a needless change.
**Meteor**: This was the only Ultimate that you were previously able to reflect, so this change was simply bringing it in line with all other Ultimates. We also plan on making a slight reduction to the snare on the Ice Comet morph.
With the changes to purify, we will no longer be able to cleanse/purify an incoming projectile, such as meteor. However, Gina Bruno's logic doesn't hold up, as the Sorcerer ultimate Overload is able to be reflected. Additionally, you can sidestep a Nova, Standard, Dragonleap, Dawnbreaker, etc. You can break out of a Negate. There are many ultimates that can be avoided, why not Meteor?
**Balanced Warrior** (Aedric Spear Passive): Increases your Weapon Dmg by 6% and your spell resist by 2640.
To "balance" this, add 6% spell damage.
**Champion Point Changes**
> **Elemental Expert**: This ability now increases Flame, Frost, Shock, and Magic Damage dealt by you, instead of Flame, Frost, and Shock Damage only.
> **Thaumaturge**: This ability now increases the damage done by damage over time effects, instead of increasing Poison, Disease, and Magic Damage.
Templars rely almost entirely on abilities that are either DoTs or channeled. To remain competitive, we will have to put points into both trees, rather than being able to put 100 in Elemental Expert and the rest into Elfborn like other ...ahem... classes are able to.
**SUMMARY**
Templars have an entire skill tree devoted towards healing that now depends on casting and remaining within a circle/rune or they will perform less healing than they currently do in live. This tree essentially has become a buff to the restoration line, which all classes have access to. We lose our uniqueness and sense of class with these proposed changes, and yet our primary concerns remain unaddressed. We lack mobility, our skills are broken, and the alternate morphs we're being offered are poorly designed.
Adjustments to our class should not be exclusively based on PvP because it also affects us in PvE. One change should not ruin the other, unless ZOS is willing to balance them separately.
This thread is filled with the feedback from your actual community that comprises players that PvE *and* PvP. Please listen to it, and take it into consideration during ESO Live. We don't want to be forced to become "healbots". Additionally, we don't want to be forced to have a skill on our bar just to make up for the proposed nerfs.
Thank you for your time, I know this was a long read.
MrJagermeister
I posted a poll about how the Templars feel after Wrobel appearance on ESO Live ...
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2691464#Comment_26914640 -
@Essiaga Looks like I'm not the only one feeling that way...
You should post a link to the poll on reddit as well, to get some more votes in.0 -
Zedh✭✭✭MrJagermeister wrote: »**Champion Point Changes**
> **Elemental Expert**: This ability now increases Flame, Frost, Shock, and Magic Damage dealt by you, instead of Flame, Frost, and Shock Damage only.
> **Thaumaturge**: This ability now increases the damage done by damage over time effects, instead of increasing Poison, Disease, and Magic Damage.
Templars rely almost entirely on abilities that are either DoTs or channeled. To remain competitive, we will have to put points into both trees, rather than being able to put 100 in Elemental Expert and the rest into Elfborn like other ...ahem... classes are able to.
You obviously completely misinterpreted what this change means to templars. Instead of dealing less damage than before, we actually have an increase of about 5% total damage on sweeps, execute, vampires bane, shards....
Because both Elemental Expert and Thaumaturge benefit these spells equally, for us it is absolutely no difference whether we put 50 into Thaumaturge or 50 into Elemental. We are actually given the OPTION to split our points so we don't suffer from the diminishing returns system as much as other classes.
Meaning that the new champion points are quite a significant buff to Templars and DKs while other classes HAVE TO dump all points into Elemental.Main: Hamrami, AD Magplar
Twinks: Hamramri, AD Magplar
Cantami, AD Magplar
Some uninteresting Posers, V1-16 AD
Pet: Fennec, V16 AD1 -
unstable core is an aoe volacious curse, its a new move with nothing to do with the previous version.
reread the tooltip.0