Buff Dual Wield skill line

Jar_Ek

Grr meant to add this thread

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/224448/dual-wield-current-issues

Daymond

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Dw has some issues. I wrote this a while ago, but it's still broadly true (although zos are fixing some bleed issues)

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/168267/can-dual-wield-be-made-to-work

Maybe there are some ideas we can get behind in there (see in the spoiler tagged section).

All those ideas are cool. Realy dont care whch ability gets changed to a gap closer but dual wield needs one.

Daymond

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Grr meant to add this thread

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/224448/dual-wield-current-issues

Both are good threads.

Xvorg

Daymond wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

If anyone uses, flurry on me in pvp I genuinely laugh.

DW needs a buff. People use it for extra damage to other skills on bar, extra set piece and steel tornado. That's it, no other reason.

The only way to use flurry in PVP is by knocking down yor enemy first. DKs with stonefist are the most viable option

But if you dual wield stam dk the only gap closer you would have is empowering chains which is a magicka ability unless you run 2h on your other bar for crit rush, but if you do that it would just be easier just to main 2h and leave dual wield for the side just for whirlwind like a lot of stam players do. Thats why I think its important to change some of the skills.

Not Necessarily. I used quick cloak for the major exp buff too.

It was cloack, then flying blade, potato and flurry

Daymond

Xvorg wrote: »

Daymond wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

If anyone uses, flurry on me in pvp I genuinely laugh.

DW needs a buff. People use it for extra damage to other skills on bar, extra set piece and steel tornado. That's it, no other reason.

The only way to use flurry in PVP is by knocking down yor enemy first. DKs with stonefist are the most viable option

But if you dual wield stam dk the only gap closer you would have is empowering chains which is a magicka ability unless you run 2h on your other bar for crit rush, but if you do that it would just be easier just to main 2h and leave dual wield for the side just for whirlwind like a lot of stam players do. Thats why I think its important to change some of the skills.

Not Necessarily. I used quick cloak for the major exp buff too.

It was cloack, then flying blade, potato and flurry

Yes, some builds can make it work does not mean it should not be changed so to add some versatility to builds. I would like to use dual wield over 2h and I have when I get bored of 2h,but I still find 2h is much better than dual wield for the reason that 2h has a reliable stam gap closer. I mean really dual wield is a melee weapon tree it should have a way for close range stam builds to have a reliable gap closer.

Dracan_Fontom

The Dual Wield skill has has little to no problems as most of the skills are very powerful such as Flying Blade, Blade Cloak, and the dreaded Steel Tornado. To make this skill line more powerful is a waste of time. IMHO i would rather have the bow buffed and have Resto staff reworked before DW gets touched.

Cody

replace blade cloaks current functionality with a stamina based damage shield. DW players already tend to do less damage than 2Hers, even that out my letting DW users have a bit more endurance.

also make twin slashes or ONE of the abilities a gap closer (if twin lashes is made a gap closer, the cost will need to go up, as of now it is one of the cheapest abilities in the game, and would be far too spam able a gap closer in its current state) i understand that the devs want to keep 2H and Dw unique from one another, but DW not having a gap closer kills its use for anyone that is not a NB

Cody

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

The Dual Wield skill has has little to no problems as most of the skills are very powerful such as Flying Blade, Blade Cloak, and the dreaded Steel Tornado. To make this skill line more powerful is a waste of time. IMHO i would rather have the bow buffed and have Resto staff reworked before DW gets touched.

blade cloak is only good for the movement speed buff, which can be acquired from other sources.

flying blade is decent, but try using it against someone with a destro staff or even a bow, you will get slaughtered. it is by no means "very powerful"

steel tornado is a good skill, in fact it is the only reason many people use DW. I see a flying blade every now and then, but that ability is honestly only good for the snare.

Enimis

Guys, Bleed from Twin Slashes insufficiently powered, even Thundering Presence damaging more than both Twin Slashes morphs (strike+bleed). For competitiveness Twin Slashes damage should be increased by x3.
So that, patch 2.3 is't panacea for Twin Slashes bleed damage. Just possible to use it on any enemy.

Daymond

Twin Slashes should be buffed and changed into a gap closer will help dual wield greatly.
As for blade cloak the movement speed buff should last longer it should also grant you Major Brutality.
As for Flurry either increase dmg or shorten the animation but also alow it to proc crit surge
Whirlwind can stay as is
And for hidden blade reduce dmg but immobilize target for 2 seconds

How does that sound? Still different from 2h and 1h shield while still being effective and not op.

Jar_Ek

Just dump blade cloak and work in a decent skill, it is generally garbage except for the speed buff which 2 classes have a better means of obtaining anyway.

Parry and Riposte
Suggestion:
New skill called “Parry and Riposte” to replace Blade Cloak.
This provides a minor evasion and minor protection buff for 20s, and grants major Brutality for 20s.
If a melee attack is evaded then the attacker is immediately/automatically struck by a light attack and is immobolised for 1.5s.
Reason:
This provides a utility skill which gives set of minor defensive buffs and provides a (weapon) damage buff that can be pre-cast. It has a chance to trigger a secondary effect, triggering all light attack effects and causing a short immobolisation (which triggers Ruffian).
Possible morphs
Lightning Reflexes (Morph of Parry and Riposte)
Suggestion:
This now provides major evasion (rather than minor) and ability duration is increased to 30s at max rank
Reason:
Has a greater chance to trigger the secondary effect and provides a good short-term defence.
Flashing Blades (Morph of Parry and Riposte)
Suggestion:
Skill provides a major expedition buff as Quick Cloak did.
Reason:
This allows the melee fighter to stay in melee combat more easily.
Deadly Ferocity (Morph of Parry and Riposte)
Suggestion:
Whilst Parry/Riposte buff is active, all bleeding, debuffed, and snared opponents are affected by the Ruffian passive (as well as the disabled ones).
Reason:
Provides a passive damage boost to all DW skills through skill line synergy making twin strikes bleed useful.

And change hidden blade multiple target morph to an interrupting gap closer with a short immobolise.

MarrazzMist

Last night ESO live promised changes to DW more utility atleast, I recall they mentioned.

Faulgor

Does anyone remember what skill we had before Blade Cloak?

MarrazzMist

Faulgor wrote: »

Does anyone remember what skill we had before Blade Cloak?

It was Sparks, made your opponent miss physical attact. I used it, but supposedly not many other.

Jar_Ek

Sparks caused an opponent to miss with physical attacks for a few seconds and could be morphed to affect multiple foes. However in the pre 1.6 era when everyone used magicka it was of limited use and with the major / minor system all miss chance skills were removed. At best they got evasion, at worst... well you've seen blade cloak.

I_killed_Vivec

Cody wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

The Dual Wield skill has has little to no problems as most of the skills are very powerful such as Flying Blade, Blade Cloak, and the dreaded Steel Tornado. To make this skill line more powerful is a waste of time. IMHO i would rather have the bow buffed and have Resto staff reworked before DW gets touched.

blade cloak is only good for the movement speed buff, which can be acquired from other sources.

flying blade is decent, but try using it against someone with a destro staff or even a bow, you will get slaughtered. it is by no means "very powerful"

steel tornado is a good skill, in fact it is the only reason many people use DW. I see a flying blade every now and then, but that ability is honestly only good for the snare.

Flying blade also gives the Major Brutality buff for 20 seconds. It's ranged, it's instant and it has a snare...

What's really unfortunate about DW is that I find it most useful in close range weaved with L/H attacks. It seems ridiculous to throw a dagger in a melee fight, there should be a better close in DPS skill (not Flurry or Blood Craze - just a straight DPS hit).

Cody

Faulgor wrote: »

Does anyone remember what skill we had before Blade Cloak?

sparks, made all physical attacks miss for 4 seconds. Not many used it, but I personally loved it. It was only really good for PvP though, PvE bosses were often immune to it

Daymond

So did sparks make melee skills like wrecking blow miss too if so why would they get rid of that sounds like a good ability? Also how long till they make some changes?

Ilterendi

Cody wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Does anyone remember what skill we had before Blade Cloak?

sparks, made all physical attacks miss for 4 seconds. Not many used it, but I personally loved it. It was only really good for PvP though, PvE bosses were often immune to it

I agree. I loved Sparks while leveling through the un-nerfed veteran content. Made vr7+ easily do-able rather than biting a pillow when you pulled 3 or more mobs.... Nostalgia is such a funny thing.

Daymond wrote: »

So did sparks make melee skills like wrecking blow miss too if so why would they get rid of that sounds like a good ability? Also how long till they make some changes?

It caused ALL melee abilities to miss for 4 secs. Including activated abilities like WB.

Daymond

Ilterendi wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Does anyone remember what skill we had before Blade Cloak?

sparks, made all physical attacks miss for 4 seconds. Not many used it, but I personally loved it. It was only really good for PvP though, PvE bosses were often immune to it

I agree. I loved Sparks while leveling through the un-nerfed veteran content. Made vr7+ easily do-able rather than biting a pillow when you pulled 3 or more mobs.... Nostalgia is such a funny thing.

Daymond wrote: »

So did sparks make melee skills like wrecking blow miss too if so why would they get rid of that sounds like a good ability? Also how long till they make some changes?

It caused ALL melee abilities to miss for 4 secs. Including activated abilities like WB.

They should bring that skill back would use it forever

xXNesTXx

Buff or not.....I don't know because I not use DW skills....but a animation improvement can be great....moving the weapons from the hips, to the back (Crossed) like all other weapons, keeping in the hips only the daggers...

Cody

Daymond wrote: »

Ilterendi wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Does anyone remember what skill we had before Blade Cloak?

sparks, made all physical attacks miss for 4 seconds. Not many used it, but I personally loved it. It was only really good for PvP though, PvE bosses were often immune to it

I agree. I loved Sparks while leveling through the un-nerfed veteran content. Made vr7+ easily do-able rather than biting a pillow when you pulled 3 or more mobs.... Nostalgia is such a funny thing.

Daymond wrote: »

So did sparks make melee skills like wrecking blow miss too if so why would they get rid of that sounds like a good ability? Also how long till they make some changes?

It caused ALL melee abilities to miss for 4 secs. Including activated abilities like WB.

They should bring that skill back would use it forever

I would make half of these SA and WB spammers furious if I had sparks. lol.

Mojmir

Dual wield should get a swordbreaker skill lol

Daymond

Would the devs really bring back an old skill they got rid of though? Also they mentioned there would be changes coming but what kind of changes are the devs planning?

Ahzek

The 2 miss skills (sparks and blinding flashes) got removed for a reason. Wrobble has explained why in the latest ESO live.

Id also like to add that those skills were most usefull to magicka builds. With a bit of stam ( for temps mag) sustain they were impossible to kill in any melee fight. Bringing back sparks would singelhandedly turn cyro in a 100% magicka land (except the sniper here and there).

Jar_Ek

But blade cloak offers basically no defense against a vast amount of damage, esp in PVP. As a replacement for sparks it really isn't great... to the point where I haven't even maxxed a morph... And I have respecced a lot of times just to level different morphs.

Ahzek

Blade cloak is indeed very weak, but giving magicka builds an i-win button against melee wouldnt really help stamina users.

Sanjirou

hmm, sparks made your opponent miss all melee attacks, not just the physical ones. That skill I miss the most. :-(

I used it a lot against magicka builds. I mean, during that time almost everyone was about magicka. But... it was too strong. It was like being invincible for 4 seconds.

Jar_Ek

So back to what to do with blade cloak that isn't sparks then...

Daymond

The Parry and riposte is not a bad idea but what if instead of getting hit by a light attack when they miss they get hit by whatever melee move they used when their attack is dodged?