RIP AP farming?

SkylarkAU

I'll keep try to keep it short and simple... each of the points below have been talked about individually around the place, but as a whole I think they will actually have a major influence on the big picture of PVP. This isn't so much about the risk vs reward aspect as it relates to new gear sets or changes to abilities, but the affect the base game changes will have on the motivation of the majority of the PvP player base and its impact on PvP campaigns..

Firstly

• AP earnings are doubled while AP earnings for larger sized groups have been effectively nerfed
• AP requirement for unlocking Alliance skills have been reduced *significantly*
• The cost of the most desirable AP items (undaunted sets) are much cheaper than people anticipated
• The PVP vendor boxes (purchased with AP) are remaining at v14 (at least for this DLC)

Is there any real motivation left to zerg for the sake of farming AP?

Now on the flip side..

• The new pvp sets are actually pretty good
• Will come in the rewards for the worthy in blue quality
• Will only be available in purple by winning the campaign or finishing in the top 10%
• Will only be available in gold by finishing in the top 2% of AP earners per campaign cycle

What kinds of individual or group play style will provide the most AP for earning blue items in the mail or gold items at the end of the campaign? My roughly educated guess here would be small scale/solo play.

As for large groups and the general campaign zergs who will probably not be able to be compete on AP per hour to get the gold items, the next best thing will be to go for the purple. The best way to get those will be to finish in the top 10% AND win the campaign which will earn a player 10 purple drops per 30 day campaign cycle.

Logically (I hope) will this mean more fights for control over keeps and their resources for the sake of campaign points (and ticks).. If you take in to account forward camps making a return it seems to me like the natural course..


So, is it RIP to zerg/ball group AP farming? Will this patch take us back to the days of epic keep battles for the sake of map control?

Sanct16

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

CatchMeTrolling

Lool no at least not on console, most people that farm ap on there run small groups or play solo. The ap change will make it easier to farm, I welcome the double ap. It's also how we make money too and people still are big on ranking up also.

MountainHound

I think people will still Zerg. 12 man groups get 50% ap? I think we will still see alot of 12 man groups running around

Draxys

Well people will still want to achieve pvp ranks, so it won't go away completely. It will just look different.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Wait... so you're upset that zergs are now getting less AP ?

Draxys

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Wait... so you're upset that zergs are now getting less AP ?

Wait... OP didn't say anything like that? Like, at all?

Sanct16

MountainHound wrote: »

I think people will still Zerg. 12 man groups get 50% ap? I think we will still see alot of 12 man groups running around

But 12 man groups aren't really a zerg tho...

Zheg

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

CatchMeTrolling

To add a lot of big groups aren't in it for the ap, they are in those big groups because they either like playing with a lot of people or because they feel safer.

Synozeer

You can get purple drops from the rewards of the worthy mails. On the PTS I got both armor and jewelry at purple quality.

themdogesbite

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking of massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

To clarify further, after the announcments about changes to AvA skills / No CP campaigns, it seems like we wll wait with playing as a guild on NA until the patch hits.

WRX

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking of massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

To clarify further, after the announcments about changes to AvA skills / No CP campaigns, it seems like we wll wait with playing as a guild on NA until the patch hits.

Yeah I won't be pvping much until it comes out either. Feels like I am just playing a lesser game lol..

As for the 2nd part, its pretty standard. Blame gets thrown around, same excuses get thrown around. The tail wags the dog, but the fish stinks from the head down.

Idk what I just said at the end, but it makes sense.

Manoekin

You really only get AP if you win the fights you engage in. In that sense being in a large group is going to be better than a small one unless you're very good at picking the right targets. I think it's going to end up being a little too skewed toward small play (mainly solo). My prediction is Crown will end up with well over 1mil AP on the first day just to prove a point.

Zheg

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel that since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking if massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

I spotted at least 2 embedded in the invictus/IR/dynamic/pact militia conglomerate, yourself not included, and I'm not even 100% up to date on what all of your reroll names are yet - those were just the obvious ones. Maybe it was later in the day after you left, because that blob was together pretty much the whole day, and when I took crown during the day red didn't even have nikel and were fighting at ales. I'm not trying to be bent out of shape over the fact that reds blobbed, every alliance does it, but I do get bent out of shape when people think themselves above the fray because they run in a smaller group while at the same time are surrounded by literally dozens of other players and remain with them objective to objective. That's been the narrative thus far from a lot of the more vocal pvp groups, ball groups are evil but it's kosher when I embed my group inside another and sprinkle on some pugs. If it was just a few of your guys zerg surfing, or running with the larger groups, whatever, I do the same sometimes, but as a first impression of the skilled '12 man' group from EU, the first opportunity to fight you guys ended up being horde-fights where our entire group couldn't even single target a guy down because skills wouldn't fire off. It rings even more hollow when @Sanct16 follows it with comments like the ones a few up.

Red might still have emp, haven't been on live yet as I've been doing pts stuff, and part of the reason for that is because we took ash-roe and then went after arrius and your scroll keeps so as to not stack with CN at chalman, and they weren't able to get the dethrone. It's fun to deflect and talk about CN and VE stacking together when the reality is we spend a third of our pvp time doing /zone pvp with each other and seeing who can be nastier.

Draxys

WRX wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking of massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

To clarify further, after the announcments about changes to AvA skills / No CP campaigns, it seems like we wll wait with playing as a guild on NA until the patch hits.

Idk what I just said at the end, but it makes sense.

themdogesbite

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel that since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking if massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

I spotted at least 2 embedded in the invictus/IR/dynamic/pact militia conglomerate, yourself not included, and I'm not even 100% up to date on what all of your reroll names are yet - those were just the obvious ones. Maybe it was later in the day after you left, because that blob was together pretty much the whole day, and when I took crown during the day red didn't even have nikel and were fighting at ales. I'm not trying to be bent out of shape over the fact that reds blobbed, every alliance does it, but I do get bent out of shape when people think themselves above the fray because they run in a smaller group while at the same time are surrounded by literally dozens of other players and remain with them objective to objective. That's been the narrative thus far from a lot of the more vocal pvp groups, ball groups are evil but it's kosher when I embed my group inside another and sprinkle on some pugs. If it was just a few of your guys zerg surfing, or running with the larger groups, whatever, I do the same sometimes, but as a first impression of the skilled '12 man' group from EU, the first opportunity to fight you guys ended up being horde-fights where our entire group couldn't even single target a guy down because skills wouldn't fire off. It rings even more hollow when @Sanct16 follows it with comments like the ones a few up.

Red might still have emp, haven't been on live yet as I've been doing pts stuff, and part of the reason for that is because we took ash-roe and then went after arrius and your scroll keeps so as to not stack with CN at chalman, and they weren't able to get the dethrone. It's fun to deflect and talk about CN and VE stacking together when the reality is we spend a third of our pvp time doing /zone pvp with each other and seeing who can be nastier.

Ehum, we've had one group on NA so far, and that was like a week ago. The only blue group we got to fight was CN after kitty got dethroned that day. I would hardly call this a chance of fighting us since i was the only one from my guild online at the time, unless the Banana Squad syndrome has followed across to NA already. (Spot one player form BS = Automaticly a BS group.) It was simply me running with uru and mala to get to know people and get some free AP to count towards next patchs changes for the AvA treees. If it makes you feel betetr i can log on and screenshot when everyone was last online.

Its amusing how you say that you dont know our chars names but yet you somehow spotted them.

Ghostbane

themdogesbite wrote: »

To clarify further, after the announcments about changes to AvA skills / No CP campaigns, it seems like we wll wait with playing as a guild on NA until the patch hits.

Buying some time to level up a new race eh? I'm on to you Sonnie Jim. You choose the tail, you are stuck with it.

As for farming AP, I think there will be even more going on next patch. Death of groups / zergs / blah, first incremental patch, 2 or 3 more to go till it hits live ( which has its own alterations ). Yes, there is a clear intent on what the changes are aiming to do and will more than likely stay the same. But, ZoS has a fantastic history of trying to encourage a particular style of gameplay and drastically failing.

I think next month is just a new challenge for groups and guilds, and they will come out alright with the new tools.

ThePonzzz

People will zerg. It will just be a lot more organized. They will break the groups up. This change does nothing to zergs. It will harm organized guild raids. It will cause the need to be on TeamSpeak (or other voice chat) to be even more of a requirement because group chat won't be nearly as effective. Zergs adapt to all changes, so you can never stop the zerg.

Zheg

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel that since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking if massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

I spotted at least 2 embedded in the invictus/IR/dynamic/pact militia conglomerate, yourself not included, and I'm not even 100% up to date on what all of your reroll names are yet - those were just the obvious ones. Maybe it was later in the day after you left, because that blob was together pretty much the whole day, and when I took crown during the day red didn't even have nikel and were fighting at ales. I'm not trying to be bent out of shape over the fact that reds blobbed, every alliance does it, but I do get bent out of shape when people think themselves above the fray because they run in a smaller group while at the same time are surrounded by literally dozens of other players and remain with them objective to objective. That's been the narrative thus far from a lot of the more vocal pvp groups, ball groups are evil but it's kosher when I embed my group inside another and sprinkle on some pugs. If it was just a few of your guys zerg surfing, or running with the larger groups, whatever, I do the same sometimes, but as a first impression of the skilled '12 man' group from EU, the first opportunity to fight you guys ended up being horde-fights where our entire group couldn't even single target a guy down because skills wouldn't fire off. It rings even more hollow when @Sanct16 follows it with comments like the ones a few up.

Red might still have emp, haven't been on live yet as I've been doing pts stuff, and part of the reason for that is because we took ash-roe and then went after arrius and your scroll keeps so as to not stack with CN at chalman, and they weren't able to get the dethrone. It's fun to deflect and talk about CN and VE stacking together when the reality is we spend a third of our pvp time doing /zone pvp with each other and seeing who can be nastier.

Ehum, we've had one group on NA so far, and that was like a week ago. The only blue group we got to fight was CN after kitty got dethroned that day. I would hardly call this a chance of fighting us since i was the only one from my guild online at the time, unless the Banana Squad syndrome has followed across to NA already. (Spot one player form BS = Automaticly a BS group.) It was simply me running with uru and mala to get to know people and get some free AP to count towards next patchs changes for the AvA treees. If it makes you feel betetr i can log on and screenshot when everyone was last online.

Never said you guys were fielding a full group, though I certainly did see a few of you, or at least a few of you that I associate from BS based on your forum signatures. They were probably zerg surfing or doing what you did - run with the other groups. Either way, I hope it's not the norm, because the main red force left on azura has gotten into the habit of running 60+ deep and the first time I saw any BS names (even if they were solo) it was in the same environment. I've been looking forward to fighting you guys as a group and it looks like the weekend day (for us) is the only matching window of playtimes.

Oh, and to your follow-up edit, Its amusing how you say that you dont know our chars names but yet you somehow spotted them, I haven't learned ALL of your names, but of the few I have learned, I saw at least 2 and I wasn't even looking all that hard (mostly I was trying to get CC break to work in the lag while the red zits flung themselves at me).

To not derail the thread entirely, people will still AP farm, I can't believe people are still even questioning that. The people that currently AP farm are typically already sitting on millions of AP. When you see people above rank 24 farming at a resource, do you think it's so they can buy motifs? xD I'd also point out that our crew is usually high up on the leaderboards and the super majority of our time is spent at keep fights, so not really sure what the implication is in the OP about those being a thing of the past.

themdogesbite

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel that since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking if massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

I spotted at least 2 embedded in the invictus/IR/dynamic/pact militia conglomerate, yourself not included, and I'm not even 100% up to date on what all of your reroll names are yet - those were just the obvious ones. Maybe it was later in the day after you left, because that blob was together pretty much the whole day, and when I took crown during the day red didn't even have nikel and were fighting at ales. I'm not trying to be bent out of shape over the fact that reds blobbed, every alliance does it, but I do get bent out of shape when people think themselves above the fray because they run in a smaller group while at the same time are surrounded by literally dozens of other players and remain with them objective to objective. That's been the narrative thus far from a lot of the more vocal pvp groups, ball groups are evil but it's kosher when I embed my group inside another and sprinkle on some pugs. If it was just a few of your guys zerg surfing, or running with the larger groups, whatever, I do the same sometimes, but as a first impression of the skilled '12 man' group from EU, the first opportunity to fight you guys ended up being horde-fights where our entire group couldn't even single target a guy down because skills wouldn't fire off. It rings even more hollow when @Sanct16 follows it with comments like the ones a few up.

Red might still have emp, haven't been on live yet as I've been doing pts stuff, and part of the reason for that is because we took ash-roe and then went after arrius and your scroll keeps so as to not stack with CN at chalman, and they weren't able to get the dethrone. It's fun to deflect and talk about CN and VE stacking together when the reality is we spend a third of our pvp time doing /zone pvp with each other and seeing who can be nastier.

Ehum, we've had one group on NA so far, and that was like a week ago. The only blue group we got to fight was CN after kitty got dethroned that day. I would hardly call this a chance of fighting us since i was the only one from my guild online at the time, unless the Banana Squad syndrome has followed across to NA already. (Spot one player form BS = Automaticly a BS group.) It was simply me running with uru and mala to get to know people and get some free AP to count towards next patchs changes for the AvA treees. If it makes you feel betetr i can log on and screenshot when everyone was last online.

Never said you guys were fielding a full group, though I certainly did see a few of you, or at least a few of you that I associate from BS based on your forum signatures. They were probably zerg surfing or doing what you did - run with the other groups. Either way, I hope it's not the norm, because the main red force left on azura has gotten into the habit of running 60+ deep and the first time I saw any BS names (even if they were solo) it was in the same environment. I've been looking forward to fighting you guys as a group and it looks like the weekend day (for us) is the only matching window of playtimes.

Oh, and to your follow-up edit, Its amusing how you say that you dont know our chars names but yet you somehow spotted them, I haven't learned ALL of your names, but of the few I have learned, I saw at least 2 and I wasn't even looking all that hard (mostly I was trying to get CC break to work in the lag while the red zits flung themselves at me).

To not derail the thread entirely, people will still AP farm, I can't believe people are still even questioning that. The people that currently AP farm are typically already sitting on millions of AP. When you see people above rank 24 farming at a resource, do you think it's so they can buy motifs? xD I'd also point out that our crew is usually high up on the leaderboards and the super majority of our time is spent at keep fights, so not really sure what the implication is in the OP about those being a thing of the past.

Could you mention the names you saw perhaps? I'm getting curious now cause there's been 4 players online in the past 24 hours and neither of them have PvPd besides me...

Drakilian

Good riddance? AP farming is terrible gameplay, haha

Zheg

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel that since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking if massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

I spotted at least 2 embedded in the invictus/IR/dynamic/pact militia conglomerate, yourself not included, and I'm not even 100% up to date on what all of your reroll names are yet - those were just the obvious ones. Maybe it was later in the day after you left, because that blob was together pretty much the whole day, and when I took crown during the day red didn't even have nikel and were fighting at ales. I'm not trying to be bent out of shape over the fact that reds blobbed, every alliance does it, but I do get bent out of shape when people think themselves above the fray because they run in a smaller group while at the same time are surrounded by literally dozens of other players and remain with them objective to objective. That's been the narrative thus far from a lot of the more vocal pvp groups, ball groups are evil but it's kosher when I embed my group inside another and sprinkle on some pugs. If it was just a few of your guys zerg surfing, or running with the larger groups, whatever, I do the same sometimes, but as a first impression of the skilled '12 man' group from EU, the first opportunity to fight you guys ended up being horde-fights where our entire group couldn't even single target a guy down because skills wouldn't fire off. It rings even more hollow when @Sanct16 follows it with comments like the ones a few up.

Red might still have emp, haven't been on live yet as I've been doing pts stuff, and part of the reason for that is because we took ash-roe and then went after arrius and your scroll keeps so as to not stack with CN at chalman, and they weren't able to get the dethrone. It's fun to deflect and talk about CN and VE stacking together when the reality is we spend a third of our pvp time doing /zone pvp with each other and seeing who can be nastier.

Ehum, we've had one group on NA so far, and that was like a week ago. The only blue group we got to fight was CN after kitty got dethroned that day. I would hardly call this a chance of fighting us since i was the only one from my guild online at the time, unless the Banana Squad syndrome has followed across to NA already. (Spot one player form BS = Automaticly a BS group.) It was simply me running with uru and mala to get to know people and get some free AP to count towards next patchs changes for the AvA treees. If it makes you feel betetr i can log on and screenshot when everyone was last online.

Never said you guys were fielding a full group, though I certainly did see a few of you, or at least a few of you that I associate from BS based on your forum signatures. They were probably zerg surfing or doing what you did - run with the other groups. Either way, I hope it's not the norm, because the main red force left on azura has gotten into the habit of running 60+ deep and the first time I saw any BS names (even if they were solo) it was in the same environment. I've been looking forward to fighting you guys as a group and it looks like the weekend day (for us) is the only matching window of playtimes.

Oh, and to your follow-up edit, Its amusing how you say that you dont know our chars names but yet you somehow spotted them, I haven't learned ALL of your names, but of the few I have learned, I saw at least 2 and I wasn't even looking all that hard (mostly I was trying to get CC break to work in the lag while the red zits flung themselves at me).

To not derail the thread entirely, people will still AP farm, I can't believe people are still even questioning that. The people that currently AP farm are typically already sitting on millions of AP. When you see people above rank 24 farming at a resource, do you think it's so they can buy motifs? xD I'd also point out that our crew is usually high up on the leaderboards and the super majority of our time is spent at keep fights, so not really sure what the implication is in the OP about those being a thing of the past.

Could you mention the names you saw perhaps? I'm getting curious now cause there's been 4 players online in the past 24 hours and neither of them have PvPd besides me...

If it's really that important to you we can take it aside, thread is getting derailed enough for something silly, and ZOS mods have bizarre interpretations of naming and shaming. Also, I don't play in offline mode so I'm not in the know, but that may skew the list you're looking at, not sure how offline mode impacts guild rosters and the like.

The first comment was meant as a potshot against the remark that changes breaking up ball groups are a good thing, even while those changes do little to stop the giant zergs (particularly when eliminating the capabilities of ball groups will likely end up requiring a giant zerg to beat a giant zerg). It was also a remark against the many, many people who have worn their group numbers on a sleeve for months but embed themselves in hordes of allies for fights. One fight or day does not make a trend, nor do a couple of players make an entire guild, so perhaps I should have done a better job of making that comment more general rather than look as focused on BS as it did, but for other crews that I've fought against for over a year, the sentiment is certainly accurate.

caeliusstarbreaker

1. Can't get AP when you're dead..... You stay alive more in larger groups.
2. People pvp for the AP?

Kilandros

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Wow, salty. Although our group did peak at 24 for an hour or so yesterday we were typically between 18-20 people--not unusual for an emp group. And as far as being unable to "tell which guilds were actually there as their own group," it was a Dynamic group, but there is overlap between Dynamic and some of EPs other notable guilds so don't act like Dynamic/Invictus/Haxus were all stacking raids together.

Furthermore, we can't control who raid surfs and who doesn't. VE is an experienced enough guild to know that when an emp group is rolling it gets followed by other groups. VE is also experienced to know that when you have emp, you defend it. I have tremendous respect for VE and what you guys have done to balance the factions, and honestly it's pretty lame to accuse us of running a 60-man group because you're upset you got wiped a few times.

themdogesbite

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel that since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking if massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

I spotted at least 2 embedded in the invictus/IR/dynamic/pact militia conglomerate, yourself not included, and I'm not even 100% up to date on what all of your reroll names are yet - those were just the obvious ones. Maybe it was later in the day after you left, because that blob was together pretty much the whole day, and when I took crown during the day red didn't even have nikel and were fighting at ales. I'm not trying to be bent out of shape over the fact that reds blobbed, every alliance does it, but I do get bent out of shape when people think themselves above the fray because they run in a smaller group while at the same time are surrounded by literally dozens of other players and remain with them objective to objective. That's been the narrative thus far from a lot of the more vocal pvp groups, ball groups are evil but it's kosher when I embed my group inside another and sprinkle on some pugs. If it was just a few of your guys zerg surfing, or running with the larger groups, whatever, I do the same sometimes, but as a first impression of the skilled '12 man' group from EU, the first opportunity to fight you guys ended up being horde-fights where our entire group couldn't even single target a guy down because skills wouldn't fire off. It rings even more hollow when @Sanct16 follows it with comments like the ones a few up.

Red might still have emp, haven't been on live yet as I've been doing pts stuff, and part of the reason for that is because we took ash-roe and then went after arrius and your scroll keeps so as to not stack with CN at chalman, and they weren't able to get the dethrone. It's fun to deflect and talk about CN and VE stacking together when the reality is we spend a third of our pvp time doing /zone pvp with each other and seeing who can be nastier.

Ehum, we've had one group on NA so far, and that was like a week ago. The only blue group we got to fight was CN after kitty got dethroned that day. I would hardly call this a chance of fighting us since i was the only one from my guild online at the time, unless the Banana Squad syndrome has followed across to NA already. (Spot one player form BS = Automaticly a BS group.) It was simply me running with uru and mala to get to know people and get some free AP to count towards next patchs changes for the AvA treees. If it makes you feel betetr i can log on and screenshot when everyone was last online.

Never said you guys were fielding a full group, though I certainly did see a few of you, or at least a few of you that I associate from BS based on your forum signatures. They were probably zerg surfing or doing what you did - run with the other groups. Either way, I hope it's not the norm, because the main red force left on azura has gotten into the habit of running 60+ deep and the first time I saw any BS names (even if they were solo) it was in the same environment. I've been looking forward to fighting you guys as a group and it looks like the weekend day (for us) is the only matching window of playtimes.

Oh, and to your follow-up edit, Its amusing how you say that you dont know our chars names but yet you somehow spotted them, I haven't learned ALL of your names, but of the few I have learned, I saw at least 2 and I wasn't even looking all that hard (mostly I was trying to get CC break to work in the lag while the red zits flung themselves at me).

To not derail the thread entirely, people will still AP farm, I can't believe people are still even questioning that. The people that currently AP farm are typically already sitting on millions of AP. When you see people above rank 24 farming at a resource, do you think it's so they can buy motifs? xD I'd also point out that our crew is usually high up on the leaderboards and the super majority of our time is spent at keep fights, so not really sure what the implication is in the OP about those being a thing of the past.

Could you mention the names you saw perhaps? I'm getting curious now cause there's been 4 players online in the past 24 hours and neither of them have PvPd besides me...

If it's really that important to you we can take it aside, thread is getting derailed enough for something silly, and ZOS mods have bizarre interpretations of naming and shaming. Also, I don't play in offline mode so I'm not in the know, but that may skew the list you're looking at, not sure how offline mode impacts guild rosters and the like.

The first comment was meant as a potshot against the remark that changes breaking up ball groups are a good thing, even while those changes do little to stop the giant zergs (particularly when eliminating the capabilities of ball groups will likely end up requiring a giant zerg to beat a giant zerg). It was also a remark against the many, many people who have worn their group numbers on a sleeve for months but embed themselves in hordes of allies for fights. One fight or day does not make a trend, nor do a couple of players make an entire guild, so perhaps I should have done a better job of making that comment more general rather than look as focused on BS as it did, but for other crews that I've fought against for over a year, the sentiment is certainly accurate.

Let me put this simple. The other players from BS was playing on EU when i decided to go on NA and check things out, i was the last player present in our TS when i logged off yesterday after the massive fight at Nikel, this was arround 2.30 am ish my time. There was no other player left on the BS teamspeak as i logged off. Thats why i have a very hard time to see how any other player from my guild could've been there.

Sure, a potshot aimed towards other guilds might be justified, it might not be, i wouldn't know cause i have hardly played on the NA server. Thats why i have a problem about that. You decide to pick on a guild you have never fought nor a guild you know much about. So yes, i do believe that it was a clumpsy comment and thus i reacted on it.

Now, since thats out of the way.. Atleast i find theese changes to be intresting and hopefully gives us a Cyrodiil with less ballgroups. I'd love to see a PvP zone where there is a lot more groups of 6 - 12 people running arround. I think it would offer a way better dynamic and it would also offer way more intresting, and hopefully less laggy PvP.

MountainHound

Sanct16 wrote: »

MountainHound wrote: »

I think people will still Zerg. 12 man groups get 50% ap? I think we will still see alot of 12 man groups running around

But 12 man groups aren't really a zerg tho...

You can still stack 12 man groups in same keeps.

Elong

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Well I think the intention of the patch is to break 24 man ballgroups which I think is needed and they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

The intention certainly was to break up the ball groups, but apparently not the gigantic 60+ man zergs. Previously it either took a very good ball group to take on that kind of force, or a zerg of equal or greater size. So yeah, they've done such a bang up job there...

You know, like the 60+ man red emp group your rerolls were embedded into last night with other guilds as you bounced as a single horde from objective to objective. But yeah, 24 man ball groups were the issue... not the '12 man groups'. There were literally enough players from multiple guilds in that horde that I couldn't even tell which guilds were actually there as their own group at times. I was pretty disappointed, given the time zone difference it's hard to fight your guys during my primetime, so weekend days are the only window, and it was just a gigantic blob of reds with emp the entire day. My group varied from 16 down to 8 as people just ended up giving up because of the ping and the stacking reds were doing, particularly as they pushed scroll keeps when they already had scrolls.

Actually i was the only one in that blob thats a reroll, and i went to bed straight after Nikel that since that PvP isnt really my cup of tea. Invictus and Malas emp group that uru / zas was leading. (Im not 100% sure of the diffrent guilds running yet.) Were the ones that ended up at nikel, that was not deliberate as far as i know.

Speaking if massive blobs though, i recall seeing CN and VE togheter at chalman the same day the PTS went live, neither my ping nor fps enjoyed that very much.

I spotted at least 2 embedded in the invictus/IR/dynamic/pact militia conglomerate, yourself not included, and I'm not even 100% up to date on what all of your reroll names are yet - those were just the obvious ones. Maybe it was later in the day after you left, because that blob was together pretty much the whole day, and when I took crown during the day red didn't even have nikel and were fighting at ales. I'm not trying to be bent out of shape over the fact that reds blobbed, every alliance does it, but I do get bent out of shape when people think themselves above the fray because they run in a smaller group while at the same time are surrounded by literally dozens of other players and remain with them objective to objective. That's been the narrative thus far from a lot of the more vocal pvp groups, ball groups are evil but it's kosher when I embed my group inside another and sprinkle on some pugs. If it was just a few of your guys zerg surfing, or running with the larger groups, whatever, I do the same sometimes, but as a first impression of the skilled '12 man' group from EU, the first opportunity to fight you guys ended up being horde-fights where our entire group couldn't even single target a guy down because skills wouldn't fire off. It rings even more hollow when @Sanct16 follows it with comments like the ones a few up.

Red might still have emp, haven't been on live yet as I've been doing pts stuff, and part of the reason for that is because we took ash-roe and then went after arrius and your scroll keeps so as to not stack with CN at chalman, and they weren't able to get the dethrone. It's fun to deflect and talk about CN and VE stacking together when the reality is we spend a third of our pvp time doing /zone pvp with each other and seeing who can be nastier.

Ehum, we've had one group on NA so far, and that was like a week ago. The only blue group we got to fight was CN after kitty got dethroned that day. I would hardly call this a chance of fighting us since i was the only one from my guild online at the time, unless the Banana Squad syndrome has followed across to NA already. (Spot one player form BS = Automaticly a BS group.) It was simply me running with uru and mala to get to know people and get some free AP to count towards next patchs changes for the AvA treees. If it makes you feel betetr i can log on and screenshot when everyone was last online.

Its amusing how you say that you dont know our chars names but yet you somehow spotted them.

Just ignore the salt mate and welcome to EP NA.

Zheg is a good person at heart but he can't help but turn every topic into a moan about stacking and zerging and defending emperors, whilst oblivious to the fact his guild do exactly the same. And there's nothing wrong with that now. That is the game.

Akinos

Sanct16 wrote: »

MountainHound wrote: »

I think people will still Zerg. 12 man groups get 50% ap? I think we will still see alot of 12 man groups running around

But 12 man groups aren't really a zerg tho...

Try telling that to people in any dueling guild.

DaveMoeDee

People who little interest in PvP still need to get AP if they want to unlock skills. I don't see why they would change their approach if that is what is effective in sieges.

DaveMoeDee

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

1. Can't get AP when you're dead..... You stay alive more in larger groups.
2. People pvp for the AP?

Well, I PvP to level skill lines, though I am usually in groups that don't fit what I hear people complaining about. Then again, I don't accumulate AP that fast.

If it is easier to farm AP then gold, I would consider farming AP to buy gear too.