Stamina sorc balanced after one simple fix

phillyproduct

Stamina classes get amazing utility in pvp with magic
NB- cloak,fear
DK- scales,talons
Temp- heals(after this buff) and buffs/purify
Sorcs- nothing

Sorcs problem is their main class defense is shields which atm can only work if their magic based.

Simply solution to simple problems - give stam sorcs a shield that scales off max stam

Now before everyone panics lets consider this people only pick hardened ward, stamina cant be stacked to the godly numbers magic can( dont think thiers any1 with 40k stam) stam shields wont be as big as magic 10-14k depending on cp dumped into bastion which means 5-7k shields pvp which is only enough to eat a wb,frag,suprise attack with magic being low and shields costing 3500magic 3shields max before magic pool drained.

TL:DR-Give stam sorcs a stam shield morph not as big as magic shields, think this would be a good magic utility dump

blur

phillyproduct wrote: »

Stamina classes get amazing utility in pvp with magic
NB- cloak,fear
DK- scales,talons
Temp- heals(after this buff) and buffs/purify
Sorcs- nothing

Sorcs problem is their main class defense is shields which atm can only work if their magic based.

Simply solution to simple problems - give stam sorcs a shield that scales off max stam

Now before everyone panics lets consider this people only pick hardened ward, stamina cant be stacked to the godly numbers magic can( dont think thiers any1 with 40k stam) stam shields wont be as big as magic 10-14k depending on cp dumped into bastion which means 5-7k shields pvp which is only enough to eat a wb,frag,suprise attack with magic being low and shields costing 3500magic 3shields max before magic pool drained.

TL:DR-Give stam sorcs a stam shield morph not as big as magic shields, think this would be a good magic utility dump

Sorry but you either don't play a Stamina Sorc or play one well, or you are just picking and choosing.

You mention
"Stam NBs get cloak and fear" For the record my CP capped stamblade has like 9k magicka give or take. Fear costs 3k, and I can effectively cloak 3 times with full magicka, provided im not *** by magelight or use fear.
You mention
"Dk's have talons and scales"

to this I say:
Stam Sorcs have Streak and Boundless Storm (some of the best mobility in the game) which a DK doesn't have at all. Regarding CC like Talons, Sorcs have Encase and Rune Cage and innate regen and cost reduction for said skills through passives. DKs don't have this.

My main is a Stamina Sorc. If you want a shield just ask for one, no need to cloak your motive through pretense.
Moreover a stamina based shield is not what we need. We need clase based stamina ability that's offensive like a stamina frags which would take advantage of Blood Magic and Exploitation passives.

@xael the best stam sorc I have seen said it best a long time ago:

"Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.

Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)

Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
Chance to make ability instant cast.
Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.

Also a redesign to the Exploitation (Dark Magic) passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39

Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50

Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome. "

Cathexis

I have said this over and over and over and people lose their minds. The truth is though it makes a lot of sense when you look at sorc passives and lengths you have to go to to maintain competitive defensive stats.

I support this change.

@Blur TP and Bolt are totally inadequate defensive utilities. One bolt only takes you 15m and actually works against you now since it is a huge resource hog and sets you up for gap closer spam (which now has an unbreakable stun). TP - it does break stealth and it does is give you a defensive stat buff. The run speed again just sets you up to be gap closed, and the damage is *** poor though. Shields would actually give us a means to keep up defensively in situations where you are getting swarmed. Encase has an insane spell cost and poor functionality, and defensive rune affects only one target at a time.

Huggalump

i'm a stam sorc and nooooooooooope. Stam sorcs need something, but this is not it.

We do get utility out of our magic. Crit surge, streak, lightening form are all great. Not as good as cloak/fear, for sure, but you can't say that we get nothing.

The biggest thing we need, like @blur said, is a class based stamina attack. We're a fairly squishy, mobility based class. We need some sort of instant damage ability like NB. It would also have the great benefit of making use of about half our passive which go unused on stam sorc.

Cathexis

@Huggalump I don't disagree with you guys about needing a class based stamina attack, but the truth is there are is a strong offensive ability in every major stamina line already. It isn't fundamentally missing, just inconvenient.

What we lack is a way to sustain extreme damage from multiple sources, especially since the implementation of the gap closer unbreakable stun - repositioning is a critical component of Stam sorc survival and we just don't have it anymore in places like cyrodiil. We know it works for magicka sorcs - it only makes sense it would work for stam sorcs as well.

Huggalump

Cathexis wrote: »

@Huggalump I don't disagree with you guys about needing a class based stamina attack, but the truth is there are is a strong offensive ability in every major stamina line already. It isn't fundamentally missing, just inconvenient.

What we lack is a way to sustain extreme damage from multiple sources, especially since the implementation of the gap closer unbreakable stun - repositioning is a critical component of Stam sorc survival and we just don't have it anymore in places like cyrodiil. We know it works for magicka sorcs - it only makes sense it would work for stam sorcs as well.

what's the strong offensive ability in the class tree for stam sorcs? I've been missing something.

Also, agree on the second point.

Huggalump

Also, I agree with @blur that we need a stamina based attack, but I strongly disagree on what it should look like. I think it should be an instant cast stam based attack. Blur's suggestion is that it's a % proc like Crystal Frags.

But imagine how that's going to work? Spamming wrecking blow, then comboing it with the procced frag. Holy *** that'd be a stupid amount of burst. Follow that with an execute and you're instagibbing people.

phillyproduct

@blur i agree we do need a way to take advantage of the dark magic passive but you must realize that any spamable dps move in that tree would be labelled OP because of that passive, fighting a stam sorc with a insta damage and 10% heal (rounded up for simplicity) would be bad

Imagine stam melee frag - 7-9k physical damage or magic damage cps buffing it, then it costing between 1500-2200 stam plus a 2500 heal every attack in pvp( most stam builds sit between 20000-25000 health) plus lets say they use mines too thats another 2500 heal PER MINE

Stam sorc would instantly become the FOTM

We can surive with offensive from the weapon tree's but defense is ONLY provide from your class skills, vigor is the only exception.

All other classes stam or magic can use their class specific moves but sorc.

Cathexis

Huggalump wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

@Huggalump I don't disagree with you guys about needing a class based stamina attack, but the truth is there are is a strong offensive ability in every major stamina line already. It isn't fundamentally missing, just inconvenient.

What we lack is a way to sustain extreme damage from multiple sources, especially since the implementation of the gap closer unbreakable stun - repositioning is a critical component of Stam sorc survival and we just don't have it anymore in places like cyrodiil. We know it works for magicka sorcs - it only makes sense it would work for stam sorcs as well.

what's the strong offensive ability in the class tree for stam sorcs? I've been missing something.

Also, agree on the second point.

I was saying there wasn't one - only the stamina weapons have them, but each one has a strong offensive ability.

Dyride

Here is my perception of the available skills currently:

Bound Armaments (toggle, decent buffs but very slot intensive)
Summon Atronach (Lightning damage )

Encase (stupidly expensive, very narrow and doesn't work on inclines)
Rune Prison/Defensive Rune (Cheap CC but breaks very easily/good defensive skill but CC doesn't even activate if they are taking damage, so situational)
Dark Deal (old version returned a lot more resources/sec and actually scaled)

Thundering Presence/Boundless Storm (too short duration speed boost to cost/ better speed+magicka dump but minimal AOE damage)
Streak (AOE stun+Lightning Damage, only 2-3 consecutive casts, opens you to gap closer stun. Lose momentum at end of animation)
Overload (Energy Overload does more damage than Power for some reason, Lightning Damage and doesn't scale for max stam or wpn power like it does for magicka builds.)

We also get 2 passives for more weapon power per skill slotted and another 20% health/stam regen if Daedric skilll slotted.

Emma_Overload

phillyproduct wrote: »

Stamina classes get amazing utility in pvp with magic
NB- cloak,fear
DK- scales,talons
Temp- heals(after this buff) and buffs/purify
Sorcs- nothing

Sorcs problem is their main class defense is shields which atm can only work if their magic based.

Simply solution to simple problems - give stam sorcs a shield that scales off max stam

Now before everyone panics lets consider this people only pick hardened ward, stamina cant be stacked to the godly numbers magic can( dont think thiers any1 with 40k stam) stam shields wont be as big as magic 10-14k depending on cp dumped into bastion which means 5-7k shields pvp which is only enough to eat a wb,frag,suprise attack with magic being low and shields costing 3500magic 3shields max before magic pool drained.

TL:DR-Give stam sorcs a stam shield morph not as big as magic shields, think this would be a good magic utility dump

OP, I agree with you, as I have begged over and over for a Stamina version of Ward. Unfortunately, ZOS doesn't care about Stam Sorcs, and a lot of Stam Sorcs are deluded that a "Crystal Punch" Stamina morph of Frags is going to solve all their problems... it won't.

Sorcs are balanced to use shields right now because Surge got nerfed with a cooldown and barely works in PvP anyway because of Impenetrable. Stam Sorcs without Vigor are DEAD in the water, because we have no heal. A Stamina morph of Ward is the most obvious solution, but many players are too stubborn to accept it.

Huggalump

Cathexis wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

@Huggalump I don't disagree with you guys about needing a class based stamina attack, but the truth is there are is a strong offensive ability in every major stamina line already. It isn't fundamentally missing, just inconvenient.

What we lack is a way to sustain extreme damage from multiple sources, especially since the implementation of the gap closer unbreakable stun - repositioning is a critical component of Stam sorc survival and we just don't have it anymore in places like cyrodiil. We know it works for magicka sorcs - it only makes sense it would work for stam sorcs as well.

what's the strong offensive ability in the class tree for stam sorcs? I've been missing something.

Also, agree on the second point.

I was saying there wasn't one - only the stamina weapons have them, but each one has a strong offensive ability.

ah i totally misread, sorry

found1779

Why can't we just have both these changes a stamina morph for shield and a stamina morph for crystal frags but that's would be great if it was to happen but you see zos doesn't seem to care about us stamina sorcerers as much as they do magicka ones I think it just has to do with them being stupid or something magicka sorcerers get lots of attention yet stamina sorcerers get hardly none what is the freaking reason for this zos

Jar_Ek

I think if stamina sorcerers had a stamina scaling ward it would probably be overpowered. Stamina builds already have better armour, ans a greater capacity to break free or dodge, shields for 8k in PVP might be too much. I think if it scaled off health it might be acceptable and it should have a decent secondary effect - it would also be a magicka dump.

I think if encase were fixed (works on slopes, works on first cast, hits bunny hoppers, affects the entire aoe rather than a narrow subset) and the cost was reduced a little then it might be workable into stamina builds. But then I have always favoured an instant melee mages fury stamina morph over crystal sword/punch.

Maybe the solution for cost is to scale cost of abilities off max rrsource - the more effective they are the more they cost? At least for resource scaled.

dday3six

Magicka by design is given utility to make up for a lower Stamina pool to block, break free, and dodge. You can argue the need for further utility sure, but that is the mold. You cannot have the best of both worlds, it's not balanced.

Name me one Stamina skill which does what you're suggesting OP? None of the other in class defensive skills are Stamina based. Sorc should not be the expection. In fact the only shield that uses Stamina is Bone Shield from Undaunted, and it's only forphysical damage and scales off Max Health.

If it wasn't a shield, but rather a HOT or some other type of healing, maybe. Perhpas something like Bone Shield even. However a Stamina shield that works just like Hardened Ward is out of the question. It contridicts the very nature Magicka utility in game.

Cathexis

Jar_Ek wrote: »

I think if stamina sorcerers had a stamina scaling ward it would probably be overpowered. Stamina builds already have better armour, ans a greater capacity to break free or dodge, shields for 8k in PVP might be too much. I think if it scaled off health it might be acceptable and it should have a decent secondary effect - it would also be a magicka dump.

I think if encase were fixed (works on slopes, works on first cast, hits bunny hoppers, affects the entire aoe rather than a narrow subset) and the cost was reduced a little then it might be workable into stamina builds. But then I have always favoured an instant melee mages fury stamina morph over crystal sword/punch.

Maybe the solution for cost is to scale cost of abilities off max rrsource - the more effective they are the more they cost? At least for resource scaled.

@Jar_Ek With regard to ward your argument is cherry picking, you haven't considered the fact that stam sorcs also have significantly lower mobility, defensive utilities (can't just stand in mines), and almost always fight at close range (higher risk). Also something to consider is that shield stacking would be harder, and shields are only effective if they can absorb 8-10k because of the problems with overflow damage vs shields being unmitigated.

I do agree with you about encase though - the extreme magicka cost holds back any utility it might have (but i doubt it would still find a spot on my bar unless it could be spammed for 1k mag or lower).

phillyproduct

dday3six wrote: »

Magicka by design is given utility to make up for a lower Stamina pool to block, break free, and dodge. You can argue the need for further utility sure, but that is the mold. You cannot have the best of both worlds, it's not balanced.

Name me one Stamina skill which does what you're suggesting OP? None of the other in class defensive skills are Stamina based. Sorc should not be the expection. In fact the only shield that uses Stamina is Bone Shield from Undaunted, and it's only forphysical damage and scales off Max Health.

If it wasn't a shield, but rather a HOT or some other type of healing, maybe. Perhpas something like Bone Shield even. However a Stamina shield that works just like Hardened Ward is out of the question. It contridicts the very nature Magicka utility in game.

Im asking the shield scales off max stam and cost magic i dont want it to cost stam that would be op (even though magic user do that lol) it needs to scales so the shield wont be 3k, which is what it is now on live.

I apologize if i misconstrued my point.

My nb is my main and i love the way i can use fear for defense then cloak to create space and then attack then go back into attack both those ability combined cost 7k magic i have 10 so i have 2 wait to cast again but their usefulness is so rewarding, dk's flappy wings is so fun talons is a great aoe lock down especially if you running a mage outta stam.

I feel like streak is awesome for stam the multi streak nerf hurts stam sorc more than magic and after that wheres the rest of my magic going? Thunderform is great i use that 20sec buff, crit surge 33sec buff then what???

Dyride

Part of the problem is that the Sorc class design includes using the 3rd bar from Overload.

To balance the Overload bar, the designers made many of the Sorc skills either toggles or have only 2 effects, where many of the other classes include either stronger synergies with passives or have >2 effects for each skill.

FWIW, I usually slot Caltrops, Defensive Rune, Silver Shard, Resolving Vigor, and Rapids/Bound Armaments on my 3rd bar.

Aspi90

...and please remove the Armor Animation from Bound Armor. It doesn´t look good and I want to see my crafted Armor.
This really annoys me.
(as a stam sorc if someone is curious)

Jar_Ek

@Cathexis I guess I am also thinking that the chances of getting a stam scaled ward are non existent and so am proposing something that zos might be willing to implement, namely health scaled shield costing magicka to cast. Even at 6k to 7k in pvp this would be twice as effective as current and could have a decent major buff such as mending (precedent exists) or vitality that lasts the duration regardless of whether the shield does. Making vigour and surge significantly better. Then a ward could be combined with a heal for the same re-engage logic. As for shield overflow.. haven't they fixed that yet? With the number of sets and CP perks that grant tiny shields I would've thought that was fixed.

blur

Huggalump wrote: »

Also, I agree with @blur that we need a stamina based attack, but I strongly disagree on what it should look like. I think it should be an instant cast stam based attack. Blur's suggestion is that it's a % proc like Crystal Frags.

But imagine how that's going to work? Spamming wrecking blow, then comboing it with the procced frag. Holy *** that'd be a stupid amount of burst. Follow that with an execute and you're instagibbing people.

Any class has a way to insta gib. I can do it with my NB and DK just fine. I don't see a problem here.

Of course mention the useless morph of crystal frag and Emma comes rolling in, the only person in the game using that horrible ability, yet completely pve.

The last thing we need is more buffs, more defense. All of our current Sorc abilities used on a Stamina Sorc are defense or utility oriented. Not one of them is dps. We are a boring class based weapon spec.

Alucardo

I'm not really keen on getting a shield - they should be reserved for magicka builds really. I did have a couple of ideas I posted on the Official feedback sorc thread.
--

Instead of breaking current abilities for magicka sorcs, these morphs should change functionality if you're stamina based. They should also now scale from max stamina/weapon damage

Crystal Fragments
Now only works when within melee range. Slice your target with a crystal sword, inflicting major fracture (or bleed damage).

Why is this cool?
Because now stamina sorcs have a DD ability, AND they can make use of the passives in the dark magic tree. Currently, this whole tree is pretty much useless to us. The self healing from this tree would be very beneficial.

Endless Fury
Lash your target with a lightning whip for X lightning damage. This has a splash damage effect where enemies near your target receive 20% of the damage. Heals you for X amount over 5 seconds for everyone hit.

Why is this cool?
Once again, a lot of us would really like the option for class DD abilities. We're Sorcerers, being able to deal out lightning damage would be pretty awesome.
The heal effect would be useful because survivability on stam sorc at the moment is at an all time low.

acw37162

After this patch a stamina Templar will have a semi cheap purge, that is not as good as it was.

Major mending still makes none of Templars heals viable for a stamina build and helps rally and vigor. Rally which we are still married to because every class except Templar has access to major brutality and major sorcery in their own skill tress.

DK's have had major mending since like we'll forever.

Even with major mending no Templar skill equal the value crit surge which stam sorcs have and streak and mines which now project me can be instant cast.

Like alucardo said above giving a stam sorc acces to skill that does damage and access to the passives in dark magic would be good change.

Stam sorcs are ten times better off then stam Templars and it's really not even close, your magic utility is so good you can replace rally and not be married to a 2H both streak and the new instant cast mines are hard CC's.

And just for giggles if ward scaled off max stat so should blazing or radiant ward which ever one is just he shield and not the damage component.

acw37162

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm not really keen on getting a shield - they should be reserved for magicka builds really. I did have a couple of ideas I posted on the Official feedback sorc thread.
--

Instead of breaking current abilities for magicka sorcs, these morphs should change functionality if you're stamina based. They should also now scale from max stamina/weapon damage

Crystal Fragments
Now only works when within melee range. Slice your target with a crystal sword, inflicting major fracture (or bleed damage).

Why is this cool?
Because now stamina sorcs have a DD ability, AND they can make use of the passives in the dark magic tree. Currently, this whole tree is pretty much useless to us. The self healing from this tree would be very beneficial.

Endless Fury
Lash your target with a lightning whip for X lightning damage. This has a splash damage effect where enemies near your target receive 20% of the damage. Heals you for X amount over 5 seconds for everyone hit.

Why is this cool?
Once again, a lot of us would really like the option for class DD abilities. We're Sorcerers, being able to deal out lightning damage would be pretty awesome.
The heal effect would be useful because survivability on stam sorc at the moment is at an all time low.

Love the endless fury idea for a stam sorc without the healing tho crit surge is really really good more might be getting near to much territory

There is an animation already in game several NPC stam sorcs use already.

You could also use a skill similar to nightblades bow. You cast the skill and light and heavy attacks charge your weapon cast it again and it explodes the charge, that would be very cool, also.

Glantir

I have heard that critical surge is a good magicka buff for Stam Sorcs ^^. But there is still a single damage skill missing that could proc the heal....

I think due to the changes of most dots they could remove the "non proc on dots" part of surge

Alucardo

acw37162 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm not really keen on getting a shield - they should be reserved for magicka builds really. I did have a couple of ideas I posted on the Official feedback sorc thread.
--

Instead of breaking current abilities for magicka sorcs, these morphs should change functionality if you're stamina based. They should also now scale from max stamina/weapon damage

Crystal Fragments
Now only works when within melee range. Slice your target with a crystal sword, inflicting major fracture (or bleed damage).

Why is this cool?
Because now stamina sorcs have a DD ability, AND they can make use of the passives in the dark magic tree. Currently, this whole tree is pretty much useless to us. The self healing from this tree would be very beneficial.

Endless Fury
Lash your target with a lightning whip for X lightning damage. This has a splash damage effect where enemies near your target receive 20% of the damage. Heals you for X amount over 5 seconds for everyone hit.

Why is this cool?
Once again, a lot of us would really like the option for class DD abilities. We're Sorcerers, being able to deal out lightning damage would be pretty awesome.
The heal effect would be useful because survivability on stam sorc at the moment is at an all time low.

Love the endless fury idea for a stam sorc without the healing tho crit surge is really really good more might be getting near to much territory

True, but keeping in mind crit surge is very unreliable with most people running some kind of shield. We can't heal off that. An alternative would be giving the lightning whip minor resolve, minor ward to stack with boundless/thundering, but not sure it'd be as useful.

Anhedonie

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm not really keen on getting a shield - they should be reserved for magicka builds really. I did have a couple of ideas I posted on the Official feedback sorc thread.
--

Instead of breaking current abilities for magicka sorcs, these morphs should change functionality if you're stamina based. They should also now scale from max stamina/weapon damage

Crystal Fragments
Now only works when within melee range. Slice your target with a crystal sword, inflicting major fracture (or bleed damage).

Why is this cool?
Because now stamina sorcs have a DD ability, AND they can make use of the passives in the dark magic tree. Currently, this whole tree is pretty much useless to us. The self healing from this tree would be very beneficial.

Endless Fury
Lash your target with a lightning whip for X lightning damage. This has a splash damage effect where enemies near your target receive 20% of the damage. Heals you for X amount over 5 seconds for everyone hit.

Why is this cool?
Once again, a lot of us would really like the option for class DD abilities. We're Sorcerers, being able to deal out lightning damage would be pretty awesome.
The heal effect would be useful because survivability on stam sorc at the moment is at an all time low.

Not before DK gets stamina whip.

Alucardo

Anhedonie wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm not really keen on getting a shield - they should be reserved for magicka builds really. I did have a couple of ideas I posted on the Official feedback sorc thread.
--

Instead of breaking current abilities for magicka sorcs, these morphs should change functionality if you're stamina based. They should also now scale from max stamina/weapon damage

Crystal Fragments
Now only works when within melee range. Slice your target with a crystal sword, inflicting major fracture (or bleed damage).

Why is this cool?
Because now stamina sorcs have a DD ability, AND they can make use of the passives in the dark magic tree. Currently, this whole tree is pretty much useless to us. The self healing from this tree would be very beneficial.

Endless Fury
Lash your target with a lightning whip for X lightning damage. This has a splash damage effect where enemies near your target receive 20% of the damage. Heals you for X amount over 5 seconds for everyone hit.

Why is this cool?
Once again, a lot of us would really like the option for class DD abilities. We're Sorcerers, being able to deal out lightning damage would be pretty awesome.
The heal effect would be useful because survivability on stam sorc at the moment is at an all time low.

Not before DK gets stamina whip.

While I care about DKs in general, this is a sorcerer thread, and stam sorcs are lacking a great deal more than stam DKs.

Cathexis

Alucardo wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm not really keen on getting a shield - they should be reserved for magicka builds really. I did have a couple of ideas I posted on the Official feedback sorc thread.
--

Instead of breaking current abilities for magicka sorcs, these morphs should change functionality if you're stamina based. They should also now scale from max stamina/weapon damage

Crystal Fragments
Now only works when within melee range. Slice your target with a crystal sword, inflicting major fracture (or bleed damage).

Why is this cool?
Because now stamina sorcs have a DD ability, AND they can make use of the passives in the dark magic tree. Currently, this whole tree is pretty much useless to us. The self healing from this tree would be very beneficial.

Endless Fury
Lash your target with a lightning whip for X lightning damage. This has a splash damage effect where enemies near your target receive 20% of the damage. Heals you for X amount over 5 seconds for everyone hit.

Why is this cool?
Once again, a lot of us would really like the option for class DD abilities. We're Sorcerers, being able to deal out lightning damage would be pretty awesome.
The heal effect would be useful because survivability on stam sorc at the moment is at an all time low.

Love the endless fury idea for a stam sorc without the healing tho crit surge is really really good more might be getting near to much territory

True, but keeping in mind crit surge is very unreliable with most people running some kind of shield. We can't heal off that. An alternative would be giving the lightning whip minor resolve, minor ward to stack with boundless/thundering, but not sure it'd be as useful.

I think crit surge in general is very unreliable. I have a hard time not taking rally over crit surge, and I have often thought a reduction in magicka cost and an equivalent heal over time to rally would make it a considerably more feasible option.

Cathexis

blur wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Also, I agree with @blur that we need a stamina based attack, but I strongly disagree on what it should look like. I think it should be an instant cast stam based attack. Blur's suggestion is that it's a % proc like Crystal Frags.

But imagine how that's going to work? Spamming wrecking blow, then comboing it with the procced frag. Holy *** that'd be a stupid amount of burst. Follow that with an execute and you're instagibbing people.

Any class has a way to insta gib. I can do it with my NB and DK just fine. I don't see a problem here.

Of course mention the useless morph of crystal frag and Emma comes rolling in, the only person in the game using that horrible ability, yet completely pve.

The last thing we need is more buffs, more defense. All of our current Sorc abilities used on a Stamina Sorc are defense or utility oriented. Not one of them is dps. We are a boring class based weapon spec.

There is a difference between instagib because your opponents are not optimized and instagib because your damage can surpass all other things though. Most of the time as a stam sorc I feel my successes against opponents are simply because they lack optimized builds.

I don't disagree not one is offensive, but none of those defensive abilities actually serve a useful defensive function either. I can't use my defensive abilities as a stam sorc to tank multiple opponents like dks, templars, nightblades or mag sorcs can and in a game where you are often outnumbered that is a serious problem.

blur

Cathexis wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Also, I agree with @blur that we need a stamina based attack, but I strongly disagree on what it should look like. I think it should be an instant cast stam based attack. Blur's suggestion is that it's a % proc like Crystal Frags.

But imagine how that's going to work? Spamming wrecking blow, then comboing it with the procced frag. Holy *** that'd be a stupid amount of burst. Follow that with an execute and you're instagibbing people.

Any class has a way to insta gib. I can do it with my NB and DK just fine. I don't see a problem here.

Of course mention the useless morph of crystal frag and Emma comes rolling in, the only person in the game using that horrible ability, yet completely pve.

The last thing we need is more buffs, more defense. All of our current Sorc abilities used on a Stamina Sorc are defense or utility oriented. Not one of them is dps. We are a boring class based weapon spec.

There is a difference between instagib because your opponents are not optimized and instagib because your damage can surpass all other things though. Most of the time as a stam sorc I feel my successes against opponents are simply because they lack optimized builds.

I don't disagree not one is offensive, but none of those defensive abilities actually serve a useful defensive function either. I can't use my defensive abilities as a stam sorc to tank multiple opponents like dks, templars, nightblades or mag sorcs can and in a game where you are often outnumbered that is a serious problem.

The Armor and Spell Resist from Boundless Storm does serve a useful defensive function... as does the heal from Crit Surge (albeit based on a gimmick and sometimes unreliable) and the Armor from Bound Armaments. Though this definitely doesn't make us a tank, they still function in a defensive manner. I notice a difference when not running Boundless.

I agree with you about poorly itemized players, however I do hit hard regardless. If I fighting another player who is built for damage or healing, I do pretty sick damage. My Executioners crit for over 10k. Now I am not talking 7pc Heavy/Impen DK with defensive buffs... but yeah, I hit pretty damn hard. I do have over 4k Weapon Damage after all.

Alucardo wrote: »

I'm not really keen on getting a shield - they should be reserved for magicka builds really. I did have a couple of ideas I posted on the Official feedback sorc thread.
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Instead of breaking current abilities for magicka sorcs, these morphs should change functionality if you're stamina based. They should also now scale from max stamina/weapon damage

Crystal Fragments
Now only works when within melee range. Slice your target with a crystal sword, inflicting major fracture (or bleed damage).

Why is this cool?
Because now stamina sorcs have a DD ability, AND they can make use of the passives in the dark magic tree. Currently, this whole tree is pretty much useless to us. The self healing from this tree would be very beneficial.

Endless Fury
Lash your target with a lightning whip for X lightning damage. This has a splash damage effect where enemies near your target receive 20% of the damage. Heals you for X amount over 5 seconds for everyone hit.

Why is this cool?
Once again, a lot of us would really like the option for class DD abilities. We're Sorcerers, being able to deal out lightning damage would be pretty awesome.
The heal effect would be useful because survivability on stam sorc at the moment is at an all time low.

These will not work nor would I want them.
1. Frags, I already have plenty of melee, having something I could use at range would be hella nice. Adding a sword? Why? This is way too much extra work for ZOS and will likely be ignored. While a Silence is nice, it would likely eat a CC timer which I don't want moreover it has a dot, no thanks. We need direct damage.

2.Endless Fury
No matter how you package this, it is poor. First off, in PvP on a Stam Sorc you are going to be 2h if you want to be optimal. That said, what you propose is way inferior to Executioner. Again, you ask for a new custom animation (and one that a DK has already) and again ask for a range ability gimped to melee. No thanks. Moreover your incarnation does not have bonus damage to 2h (like Executioner) and runs off Elemental Damage. Elemental Damage is garbage for a Stamina Sorc. Your version scales off The Apprentice tree (Elemental Expert) whereas Executioner is physical like the rest of our damage and where 100 of our CP already are (The Ritual - Mighty).

I am not trying to sound rude or overly critical but these ideas are not good at all and will gimp us even more.