Controversial PTS AP Changes

Vaoh

On the current Thieve's Guild PTS, the Alliance Points required in order to level from Assault/Support 1-10 have been reduced by around 90%.

(Taken from Paulington's thread, http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245335/new-ava-skill-line-requirements/p1)

Rank 1: 0 - 700 AP
Rank 2: 700 - 8,000 AP
Rank 3: 8,000 - 37,300 AP
Rank 4: 37,300 - 90,000 AP
Rank 5: 90,000 - 150,000 AP
Rank 6: 150,000 - 210,000 AP
Rank 7: 210,000 - 300,000 AP
Rank 8: 300,000 - 450,000 AP
Rank 9: 450,000 - 670,000 AP
Rank 10: 670,000 AP.

Many threads have already been created about these changes, so I thought it'd be a good idea to get a consensus on how people feel about it.

Rylana

The amount of Alliance Points it currently takes to level up Assault/Support should stay the same

This should never have changed, it was bad enough when they lowered vigor to rank 5.

Quite honestly, being a player with multiple toons over AR 24 and having PvPed since launch, I feel it is wrong to give away for nearly free the things it took me months of dedication to obtain.

Absolutely stupid.

Recremen

I don't care either way

I mean it was cool to finally get the passives maxed out, back in the day, after long months of PvP fights, but it's not like people are pulling 100k+ AP an hour anymore. I think adjusting the skills down is fine, though I would have just preferred they increase AP such that 100k+ an hour was possible again.

Emma_Overload

The decrease in Alliance Points to level up Assault/Support is just about perfect on PTS

It's hilarious how hard old-timer PvPers are trying to maintain their unfair OP advantages! Hahaha, I can't wait to Proxy Det YOU when you try to gank me in the sewers. I'm so sick of getting murdered and robbed with spells that would take me two years to grind... on each freakin' alt!

SleepyTroll

Other

They should have just made alliance rank account wide.

vortexman11

The amount of Alliance Points it currently takes to level up Assault/Support should stay the same

27 days /played on my templar and I'm 100,000 AP from Assault/Support rank 10
20 days /played on my sorc and I'm about 3 AvA ranks away from Assualt/Support 10

It takes about a month of play time to get to max Assault/Support... which currently requires 6,918,401 AP
They're making it require less than one tenth of what it does now.... does it really sound fair that you should be able to max out a skill line like this in less than 3 days of play time....

Just like the removal of Former Emperor Passives, or the lowering of the required rank for Vigor, nothing people who have gotten the achievement say will change the outcome...so I will stay quiet.

AllPlayAndNoWork

It should require more Alliance Points than it currently does to level up Assault/Support

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's hilarious how hard old-timer PvPers are trying to maintain their unfair OP advantages! Hahaha, I can't wait to Proxy Det YOU when you try to gank me in the sewers. I'm so sick of getting murdered and robbed with spells that would take me two years to grind... on each freakin' alt!

Yeah because the "old timers" never earned they way to it........ Oh wait.

Mojmir

The decrease in Alliance Points to level up Assault/Support is just about perfect on PTS

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's hilarious how hard old-timer PvPers are trying to maintain their unfair OP advantages! Hahaha, I can't wait to Proxy Det YOU when you try to gank me in the sewers. I'm so sick of getting murdered and robbed with spells that would take me two years to grind... on each freakin' alt!

Yeah because the "old timers" never earned they way to it........ Oh wait.

Actually not everyone earned it "fairly" ,a lot has changed since when the game started.

Jules

The amount of Alliance Points it currently takes to level up Assault/Support should stay the same

The reduction is really ridiculous tbh.

AllPlayAndNoWork

It should require more Alliance Points than it currently does to level up Assault/Support

Mojmir wrote: »

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's hilarious how hard old-timer PvPers are trying to maintain their unfair OP advantages! Hahaha, I can't wait to Proxy Det YOU when you try to gank me in the sewers. I'm so sick of getting murdered and robbed with spells that would take me two years to grind... on each freakin' alt!

Yeah because the "old timers" never earned they way to it........ Oh wait.

Actually not everyone earned it "fairly" ,a lot has changed since when the game started.

I consider the old timers to be the ones here on day 1. And they earned everything they have.
Everything is way too easy now.

Zavus

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's hilarious how hard old-timer PvPers are trying to maintain their unfair OP advantages! Hahaha, I can't wait to Proxy Det YOU when you try to gank me in the sewers. I'm so sick of getting murdered and robbed with spells that would take me two years to grind... on each freakin' alt!

I say that's an inaccurate representation of PvP old-timers. For example, I have a Alliance Rank 50 NB, a Rank 24 Templar, Rank 19-20 Sorc, and multiple alts that are around corporal rank. With having invested that much time into PvP, I'm really not bothered by the change at all. All this means is that every single one of my other character besides my templar/NB who already have all the passives will have them as well. If anything it's a good change, it really bothered me that I had to grind out the passives every time I wanted to roll an alt.

Also I doubt much will change when/if you get Prox. The skill isn't gonna magically make you a good player, if you're bad you'll stay bad once you get the skill. Prox honestly isn't even that good unless you're hitting groups of people.

FMonk

The amount of Alliance Points it currently takes to level up Assault/Support should stay the same

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's hilarious how hard old-timer PvPers are trying to maintain their unfair OP advantages! Hahaha, I can't wait to Proxy Det YOU when you try to gank me in the sewers. I'm so sick of getting murdered and robbed with spells that would take me two years to grind... on each freakin' alt!

I can't wait until you realize that you're still terrible at PvP even with proxy and alliance war passives.

Sypher

They could have made AR account wide, but I like the short grind (:

I like even playing fields.

lolo_01b16_ESO

The amount of Alliance Points it currently takes to level up Assault/Support should stay the same

I don't like that people can get proxy now before they reach level 20. At this low level, battle leveling is very strong, to compensate for not having access to powerfull skills.

JaJaLuka

I don't care either way

Saves me having to grind my alts which is good and it gives newer players a little leeway in terms of catching up and giving a more balanced playing field.
However, 90% is a little extreme and it does give players a cake walk over what some of us spent months getting.
It's a win-lose situation either way, hopefully it's better this way. Just going to wait and see when it hits live.

Stanko

I don't care either way

They are making it so that PVPers don't have to PVE (monster helms/shoulders can be purchased). This is the trade-off, PVEers don't have to PVP much to get Alliance war skills.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

They only thing I don't like about this is that mass prox-det will be making its way to the Blackwater blade server and used by AD vet guilds while they are AP farming on their non-vet alts. They caused the lag with their blobspam playstyle, now they are bringing that cheese to BWB.

I just hope that the removal of champion points will cause them to leave. They are terrible when they don't have a huge advantage over other people.

Derra

It should take less Alliance Points to level up Assault/Support, but was decreased by too much on the PTS

I don´t know if 670k isn´t a little low while also doubling ap gains if you´re not running with 16+ ppl.

I do however agree with zos´ decision on lowering ap required. Caltrops and magica det are pretty much required for most proper pvp builds these days. The game needs to be become beginner friendly if it wants to survive for longer. Reducing requirements and adding catchup mechanisms is essential to achieve this.

It´s a totally different beast when you compare grinding to rank 10 when everyone does it OR when you´re experienced and have done it before than it is when you´re first picking up on the game.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Other

I never understood why AvA skills were so hard to unlock in the first place ... so I'm quite OK with the change, but I can't really figure out the consequences. But I can't vote "I don't care" because I sure do.
I just don't know what to think ;-)

It seems obvious to me that ZoS in giving up on mixing PvP with PvE. But I don't see how this change plays a role, one way or the other.

allen-iverson

The amount of Alliance Points it currently takes to level up Assault/Support should stay the same

this change and the siege changes are all garbage and caters to lazy people that want things handed to them... centurion was a perfect place to get assault and support rank ten. this change takes a big messy number two on any player who has actually put in the time and effort in cyrodiil.

Laggus

It should take less Alliance Points to level up Assault/Support, but was decreased by too much on the PTS

Back in the early days way too many people gained half their current ranks by camping blood port resources and tagging people, so I don't think really this matters overly too much. It didn't make them any better at the time.

It may actually promote more people to PvP as its less daunting to gain rank. More people that PvP the bigger voice we get as currently PvP is the red haired stepchild that the Devs don't put enough talented resources into.

Jules

The amount of Alliance Points it currently takes to level up Assault/Support should stay the same

Laggus wrote: »

More people that PvP the bigger voice we get as currently PvP is the red haired stepchild that the Devs don't put enough talented resources into.

True. But also means more lagggg, Laggus!

And stop 1 shot ganking me!!!!

Darnathian

Stanko wrote: »

They are making it so that PVPers don't have to PVE (monster helms/shoulders can be purchased). This is the trade-off, PVEers don't have to PVP much to get Alliance war skills.

Wait. I thought it was just helms. Shoulders too?

MountainHound

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's hilarious how hard old-timer PvPers are trying to maintain their unfair OP advantages! Hahaha, I can't wait to Proxy Det YOU when you try to gank me in the sewers. I'm so sick of getting murdered and robbed with spells that would take me two years to grind... on each freakin' alt!

I cant wait to get my desired Molag Kena pieces to make my Proxy det wipe you in 1 hit, O wait, I cant.

Alucardo

Rylana wrote: »

This should never have changed, it was bad enough when they lowered vigor to rank 5.

Quite honestly, being a player with multiple toons over AR 24 and having PvPed since launch, I feel it is wrong to give away for nearly free the things it took me months of dedication to obtain.

Absolutely stupid.

I agree with you on everything except this. If you're in PVP, Vigor is basically a must for stamina builds. Rank 5 is just perfect.

WRX

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

It's hilarious how hard old-timer PvPers are trying to maintain their unfair OP advantages! Hahaha, I can't wait to Proxy Det YOU when you try to gank me in the sewers. I'm so sick of getting murdered and robbed with spells that would take me two years to grind... on each freakin' alt!

Emma, I warned you.

Gunna get hit.

code65536

It should take less Alliance Points to level up Assault/Support, but was decreased by too much on the PTS

I'm all for making the skills more accessible. I just don't think that "more accessible" should go as far as "practically free".

One possible middle ground:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245393

MountainHound

If I was in charge, I would make BWB be CP free.
Then I would say AP earnt in BWB is 100% - (Seems we get 2k ap a kill atm, I'd make that 4k)
This way it will invite new players into an environment whereby they will not get 1 shot killed, allowing them to get the AP required for their Alliance ranks (I'd not change anything about the AP current rank/amount to get).

This should give the newer players a fairer battle ground to "learn" how to pvp whilst gaining what they require.

I don't see AS/TF campaigns currently gaining many new faces and it is because it is daunting. I remember my first time in Cyrodiil, running around trying to find siege, getting macro killed in 1 second by someone I could not see after 5 minutes of horse simulation. Trying to kill someone on < 10% health and watching them roll dodge from nikel back to Roe (luckily stopped now).

But yeah, we need ways to encourage people into PVP to then STAY. Not get their proxy det for PVE mode.

I think the no cp campaign is a really good one but please don't change the AP system to make it too easy. If you do, I want to be able to select my helm + trait 24/7.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

I don't care either way

Whatever

vortexman11

The amount of Alliance Points it currently takes to level up Assault/Support should stay the same

Stanko wrote: »

They are making it so that PVPers don't have to PVE (monster helms/shoulders can be purchased). This is the trade-off, PVEers don't have to PVP much to get Alliance war skills.

We still need those passives Stan....
I personally would take increased EXP from Undaunted Pledges in general rather than the selling of monster helms for AP...but thats just me

Slaxis

Other

I think that AP and Alliance rank should be account wide. I also think that it should lvl slower then then it does now.