Congrats to DC for winning Azuras Star!

Manoekin

Zheg wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

Wouldn't showing restraint be a good thing?

Only for the DC AP farmers. Go to your journal and look at the AS leaderboards for all three factions. Notice that one is kind of dominating? That's because so many organized/competitive players rerolled DC. Just like what happened in Oct 2014 on TB when EP was the FOTM faction. The campaign score is not representative of competitive balance. At all.

In 2015, TB died a slow death until the remaining AD and DC guilds hopped campaigns to avoid the EP hoard. Soon, we will start doing the same again as AS is an unplayable nightmare prime time. it's already happened to a large degree.

Besides VE, who rerolled like 8 months ago, what other guilds are you talking about? Furthermore, a good number of the original red VE that rerolled have stopped playing the game by now; we might even be at a point where the guild is majority native blue. Going to call BS on the "so many organized/competitive players rerolled DC" until you can actually give specifics, because I play pretty much every night and there hasn't been a big DC reroll recently from what I can remember. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

The organized yellow guilds most certainly played on AS yesterday during prime-time, it just wasn't a good night for them - it happens to everyone. As for red, I see dynamic and pact militia most of the time now; it looks like haxus has bounced to another campaign again.

I remember banging our heads against a wall for a few weeks straight when IC launched and we were fighting as the main blue presence on TF outnumbered against a nightly GoS emp with all scrolls + SWP and pugs. It was grueling, and challenging. Frankly, I feel like guilds today just don't have stamina. They lose a few times and ragequit or bounce somewhere else. It's sad that there are only enough competitive guilds to occupy 1-2 campaigns, but when the stronger guilds move elsewhere, map balance obviously shifts. People complain about stacking, sometimes literally while doing it themselves, but everyone does it. There were times last night in AS where each alliance had overwhelming numbers during fights. People complain about lag, but I hear people complaining about lag on haderus almost as much as I hear it on AS. If guilds don't want to fight, it's hard to accuse the last one standing for the night of being guilty for farming when chances are the competition just went to a different campaign to do the same. Maybe your efforts should be focused on getting the red guilds to play. I logged early last night because yellow's pop died and their guilds left, and it looked like red had only small groups from dynamic/pact militia + pugs and were getting steamrolled at scroll area. You know what happens when competition leaves? The number of objectives to take dwindles and you start getting all of the alliance at one spot and shifting from playing the map to farming because there's nothing left to play on the map. You know what happens when competition stays? Alliances have to fight on multiple fronts and are typically forced to spread out (as much as the awful emp system that funnels you to certain keeps will allow) and pugs have the morale to keep playing and pushing objectives with the guilds.

Maybe your efforts should be focused on making sure guilds show up to the party?

You speak from your perspective. If pugs push with me to an objective and I take it I just get little digs thrown at me. However, that's all I have when I play primetime Azura on AD. There isn't multiple fronts for us because we don't have multiple guilds that we can actually push/defend both sides. AD and EP only lose Alessia/BRK because they have to focus their entire pug efforts on whichever side DC is pushing hardest. My entire night usually revolves around constantly defending/attacking Roebeck/Nikel/Brindle, and maybe I'll have time to clear the EP pugs off the bridge or if they're sieging Alessia. Maybe I get past the ash/nikel fight once or twice a night if I'm lucky. All of that plus lag, and if my group isn't playing well for whatever reason yeah I'm going to log. There are better things to do and Cyrodiil isn't that important.

This is nothing against anyone, just trying to point things out. I had an EP player in my raid somewhat recently and all we did for two hours was run back and forth between Alessia and Roe because the other was always flagged. They made a joke that it was like they were playing EP going from BRK to Chalman. So when I have 2+ blue raids pushing down my side of the map, what the hell is supposed to happen? AD guilds are not going to come back to Azura mainly because of the lag, and I'm not blaming anyone for that. That's just the way it is.

My post is a little outdated because I had to stop typing it this morning midway through. Just my thoughts on a subject I keep feeling the need to stress, and many people keep ignoring.

@PosternHouse to claim "accusations of overwhelming numbers at that point is laughable" is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter if the campaign is triple poplocked, the fights are not going to be fair ever for any side. DC gets accused of it more than others because, if there was another guild group going on Azura at the same time I could quickly get two groups in one place, or to hit multiple objectives. Instead I have pug groups asking me where to go, and then I get told only half the group made it to the objective because the other half wanted to do something else. If not that, they get wiped by less than half their numbers because they're just pugs. Because DC is capable of mobilizing in such a way, the accusations fly in their general direction whether it's legit or not.

Cody

Telel wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Telel has a DC toon now and expects a portion of any victory moon sugar to be shared equally.

Especially after all that easy AP Shelgon and Kodi got out of this one's teaching PUG the other day. -.-

Once AD scum, always AD scum, you will fool no one with your tricks khajit.

This one is not scum. They are Telel. That is a form of infectious awesome you do not wish to scrape out of your shower.

Takllin wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

@zyk - I think you're my new best friend. Respect toward everything you've said so far in here. But don't let them troll you back, most intelligent people know you're right, they just will never admit it. If DC would play for objectives, the map would be blue 75% of the day but they won't because they wanna make it look like they worked hard to win the campaign.

In the end, like you've said, we all know that they're going easy mode on people with much lower skills and experience since 3-4months ago. They keep rolling over them gathering the ap flow. As you said, EP will either start moving to other campaigns or they will simply leave the game.

Funny part is, lot of people who were running in the ballgroups gate camping tonight around Chim temple said plenty of times in these forums not more than 2months ago that their guild would never gate farm because it is not good for the morale. Made me laugh when they charged me 24v1 a couple times.

If it wasn't for the horrible lag coming with the ballgroups I would probably stay but as soon as either Haderus or Trueflame get some action during the day I'm out of Azura fo sure. The community is getting way too toxic and arrogant.

DC doesn't take the entire map because they don't want to run the competition off the server like what happened with Trueflame...and like EP did with Thornblade, etc, etc...

DC has had its own share of buff servers/utter server dominance in its time each faction has, the moral high ground is not going to work for you my friend.

s7732425ub17_ESO

From the start we had everything stacked against us! The lag effecting DC way more then the other factions, and always being outnumbered.

I don't think you understand how the game works.

Red and yellow had almost all their zergs running potato spam, stacking raids, night capping, just to get advantages over us, but we held strong.

I have never ever seen more stacking than DC did this last campaign. There were literally 40 DC players standing on a single rock spamming healing springs like crazy. This happened every single night. And the DC blob of all 40 players always moved together.

In comparison, EP rarely ran zerg balls of more than 12 players. The few good EP guilds left just don't seem to have the numbers anymore to pull off massive zerg balls as DC was capable of doing. Also, EP is currently in a state of a small number of hardcore groups coupled with a large amount of organized pugs. It's very apparent when you observe how the EP zerg moves versus DC.

Pain In The Axe

"Pain's guild disintegrated though shortly after VE rerolled, and even then they weren't doing much before that towards the end. He couldn't get many online, and did a lot of wrangling together of whomever he could find at the time he was leading. Most that played with him were absorbed into other guilds on DC. I don't think he took anyone with him, and he rerolled to get away from the new zerg faction IIRC. He;s in Dynamic now?"

Yes Im in dynamic now but I don't get to play with them much anymore since ive been banned from game qq. Pvping at v3 with 100 cp with no gear kinda sucks in this meta lol. This thread is becoming real hard to keep up with :S

Zheg

Manoekin wrote: »

You speak from your perspective. If pugs push with me to an objective and I take it I just get little digs thrown at me. However, that's all I have when I play primetime Azura on AD. There isn't multiple fronts for us because we don't have multiple guilds that we can actually push/defend both sides. AD and EP only lose Alessia/BRK because they have to focus their entire pug efforts on whichever side DC is pushing hardest. My entire night usually revolves around constantly defending/attacking Roebeck/Nikel/Brindle, and maybe I'll have time to clear the EP pugs off the bridge or if they're sieging Alessia. Maybe I get past the ash/nikel fight once or twice a night if I'm lucky. All of that plus lag, and if my group isn't playing well for whatever reason yeah I'm going to log. There are better things to do and Cyrodiil isn't that important.

This is nothing against anyone, just trying to point things out. I had an EP player in my raid somewhat recently and all we did for two hours was run back and forth between Alessia and Roe because the other was always flagged. They made a joke that it was like they were playing EP going from BRK to Chalman. So when I have 2+ blue raids pushing down my side of the map, what the hell is supposed to happen? AD guilds are not going to come back to Azura mainly because of the lag, and I'm not blaming anyone for that. That's just the way it is.

My post is a little outdated because I had to stop typing it this morning midway through. Just my thoughts on a subject I keep feeling the need to stress, and many people keep ignoring.

@PosternHouse to claim "accusations of overwhelming numbers at that point is laughable" is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter if the campaign is triple poplocked, the fights are not going to be fair ever for any side. DC gets accused of it more than others because, if there was another guild group going on Azura at the same time I could quickly get two groups in one place, or to hit multiple objectives. Instead I have pug groups asking me where to go, and then I get told only half the group made it to the objective because the other half wanted to do something else. If not that, they get wiped by less than half their numbers because they're just pugs. Because DC is capable of mobilizing in such a way, the accusations fly in their general direction whether it's legit or not.

I wasn't so much referring to single nights where people say eff it and log or switch campaigns, I was talking long-term over the past few months, multiple guilds, all alliances. Unfortunately, I think ego plays too large a role (for everyone) when it comes to fights in the sense that if it's a bad night you don't want to keep wiping over and over to a guild at the risk of having that thrown back at you the next time forum salt emerges (our group suffers from the same at times). Maybe it's just my personality, but even if I'm solo, I don't give an eff if I'm throwing myself against a haxus/rage group and getting roflstomped and tbagged. It's fun to see how long you can stay alive, or maybe you get a kill in a 1vX fight before you get obliterated. If you're losing as a raid, sometimes you need to call it to preserve morale, but I still wish people across the board would stay and fight more. So many dethrones or emp crownings or scroll fights result in people leaving immediately after. Yes, there are better things to do sometimes and cyrodiil isn't that important, but on average, people be weaksauce imo when it comes to staying power

With regards to azura lag, isn't haderus pretty much just as bad at this point? I also remember (yes, I'm still super salty) spending about a month trying to get red and yellow guilds (rage in particular because TF needed a yellow presence) to ditch the laggy azura and come fight back on old school TF when haxus and GoS left it. TF had ample opportunity for prime fights, but people wanted to farm the same blues they love to hate and bash for stacking and bringing so many numbers. So now, months later, when I see people complaining about lag and numbers, I be like

Takllin

Pain In The Axe wrote: »

"Pain's guild disintegrated though shortly after VE rerolled, and even then they weren't doing much before that towards the end. He couldn't get many online, and did a lot of wrangling together of whomever he could find at the time he was leading. Most that played with him were absorbed into other guilds on DC. I don't think he took anyone with him, and he rerolled to get away from the new zerg faction IIRC. He;s in Dynamic now?"

Yes Im in dynamic now but I don't get to play with them much anymore since ive been banned from game qq. Pvping at v3 with 100 cp with no gear kinda sucks in this meta lol. This thread is becoming real hard to keep up with :S

Sorry to hear

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

How so for Yellow and Red? I don't know of any guilds who rerolled from DC to EP or AD.

Pain's guild disintegrated though shortly after VE rerolled, and even then they weren't doing much before that towards the end. He couldn't get many online, and did a lot of wrangling together of whomever he could find at the time he was leading. Most that played with him were absorbed into other guilds on DC. I don't think he took anyone with him, and he rerolled to get away from the new zerg faction IIRC. He;s in Dynamic now?

In primetime though all of those people are playing DC, with the exception of myself because I went back, but I'm probably one of a handful that did after rerolling to DC. Some of K Hole does small scale on AD in off hours, but more often than not they play DC.

The only reason the map stays competitive is because you guys make it that way. If you guys instead decided to push South from Roe or East from Chalman instead of taking Brindle/Dragonclaw, that's the straw that would break AD/EPs back.

I don't mean any offense by this, or a knock on anyone. Just observations from my time on DC and the past two months on AD. I'm just talking strictly about those who are on Azuras.

You talked mostly about single players shifting, and that's what I meant was mostly the same, and/or not totally applicable because the ones you listed still play on other alliances. There haven't been guilds rerolling to EP or AD, but again, there really haven't been guilds doing that to blue either. VE was the exception, but that was literally like 8 months ago, and most of those rerolls aren't even in the game anymore, so if you're still counting that as a card, well...

Kholes has also been around for a good while now, run small, and a lot of them still play other alliances (uhh, and don't play on AS...). I'd say the strength of each alliance is apparent to most pvpers at this point, but I disagree with the reroll implication. You listed pretty much every reroll of importance in your previous post, and I can't say I see much impact there.

I think the real reason for victory is apparent. When it comes to inspiration, Pubes > Frozn >>>>>>> Sarenvog. /micdrop

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

My brain hurts now.

It's your baseline. It will stop hurting when you realize that only baddie scrubs will be on arthurians, and only the select 'special' few of those will be on flame wardens.

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Makkir

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank our Warlord for all the sturdy and reinforced gear I got in the mail. Thank you so much.

Makkir

Manoekin wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

Calling people salty is just the new "lol u mad bro".

It's so ... passe. I wish people would put some basic thought into their banter.

Are you salty about salt?

By definition, I think we are all salty.

Source- https://www.quora.com/How-much-salt-NaCl-is-in-the-average-adult-human-body

Takllin

Makkir wrote: »

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank our Warlord for all the sturdy and reinforced gear I got in the mail. Thank you so much.

Well Fitted Archmage Belt

RIP

Zheg

Takllin wrote: »

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Not for nothing, but if VE didn't play tonight on azura, as long as CN and harlocke weren't in farm mode and played the map, I think they'd do quite well. I really disagree with such an old reroll being the main driver behind current alliance imbalances (perceived and real ones), and would suggest that losing havok, nexus, and GoS has had far more of a meaningful impact than the dozen or so VE reroll players you mentioned (though not to discount them and what they bring to the table). I guess, when I see people try to point to rerolls as the reason for why things are stacked against them, part of me wants to shake them and say "that happened 8 months ago, train pugs, ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done". There just aren't enough guilds left to reroll any more in pvp, balance will always be out of whack if it happens now. Literally the only solution is to have more groups playing the map, which makes the anti-group mentality that's taken root in the playerbase even more unfortunate.

And as an aside, a lot of the good pvpers have toons on multiple alliances at this point, and play them. I still fight tatsu on red, I still fight khole members on yellow/red, luna, ghost, tex, and steve will still play their reds and spend time with EP friends, etc. etc. But, it doesn't sound like we're going to agree, which is fine, but I'll stop beating the dead horse.

allen-iverson

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

From the start we had everything stacked against us! The lag effecting DC way more then the other factions, and always being outnumbered.

I don't think you understand how the game works.

Red and yellow had almost all their zergs running potato spam, stacking raids, night capping, just to get advantages over us, but we held strong.

I have never ever seen more stacking than DC did this last campaign. There were literally 40 DC players standing on a single rock spamming healing springs like crazy. This happened every single night. And the DC blob of all 40 players always moved together.

In comparison, EP rarely ran zerg balls of more than 12 players. The few good EP guilds left just don't seem to have the numbers anymore to pull off massive zerg balls as DC was capable of doing. Also, EP is currently in a state of a small number of hardcore groups coupled with a large amount of organized pugs. It's very apparent when you observe how the EP zerg moves versus DC.

Once again, http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237953/congrats-to-ad-for-winning-azuras-star/p1

I didn't read your comment btw I just wanted to let you know that this was entirely a copypasta, but i removed AD and put DC. Soz m8

Satiar

Takllin wrote: »

Pain In The Axe wrote: »

"Pain's guild disintegrated though shortly after VE rerolled, and even then they weren't doing much before that towards the end. He couldn't get many online, and did a lot of wrangling together of whomever he could find at the time he was leading. Most that played with him were absorbed into other guilds on DC. I don't think he took anyone with him, and he rerolled to get away from the new zerg faction IIRC. He;s in Dynamic now?"

Yes Im in dynamic now but I don't get to play with them much anymore since ive been banned from game qq. Pvping at v3 with 100 cp with no gear kinda sucks in this meta lol. This thread is becoming real hard to keep up with :S

Sorry to hear

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

How so for Yellow and Red? I don't know of any guilds who rerolled from DC to EP or AD.

Pain's guild disintegrated though shortly after VE rerolled, and even then they weren't doing much before that towards the end. He couldn't get many online, and did a lot of wrangling together of whomever he could find at the time he was leading. Most that played with him were absorbed into other guilds on DC. I don't think he took anyone with him, and he rerolled to get away from the new zerg faction IIRC. He;s in Dynamic now?

In primetime though all of those people are playing DC, with the exception of myself because I went back, but I'm probably one of a handful that did after rerolling to DC. Some of K Hole does small scale on AD in off hours, but more often than not they play DC.

The only reason the map stays competitive is because you guys make it that way. If you guys instead decided to push South from Roe or East from Chalman instead of taking Brindle/Dragonclaw, that's the straw that would break AD/EPs back.

I don't mean any offense by this, or a knock on anyone. Just observations from my time on DC and the past two months on AD. I'm just talking strictly about those who are on Azuras.

You talked mostly about single players shifting, and that's what I meant was mostly the same, and/or not totally applicable because the ones you listed still play on other alliances. There haven't been guilds rerolling to EP or AD, but again, there really haven't been guilds doing that to blue either. VE was the exception, but that was literally like 8 months ago, and most of those rerolls aren't even in the game anymore, so if you're still counting that as a card, well...

Kholes has also been around for a good while now, run small, and a lot of them still play other alliances (uhh, and don't play on AS...). I'd say the strength of each alliance is apparent to most pvpers at this point, but I disagree with the reroll implication. You listed pretty much every reroll of importance in your previous post, and I can't say I see much impact there.

I think the real reason for victory is apparent. When it comes to inspiration, Pubes > Frozn >>>>>>> Sarenvog. /micdrop

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

My brain hurts now.

It's your baseline. It will stop hurting when you realize that only baddie scrubs will be on arthurians, and only the select 'special' few of those will be on flame wardens.

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Khole has not been on Azuras as far as I know. I have literally never seen them, not even when I'm randomly online at 4am.

I still have plenty of old Red VE members in guild, wasn't long ago we did that Red VE night and just about had a full raid minus a few guests.

Thing I think hurt EP most in all this was honestly Nexus dissolving. They had a solid core of old IR/Hijinx players, a bunch of VE guys who didn't want to reroll and others. Haxus is man for man a stronger guild no doubt, but Nexus had the numbers for map control and had an amazing base of pro and semi-pro players to build off of. No one really replaced what they brought or thier potential, and most old VE and Pride members not invited to Haxus ended up leaving the game.

Thanks to Varren for laying out the EP guild situation, but it looks bleak. There's no harm in running small but when literally all of your elite players and leaders want to small scale, that's just hard on the faction

AD is in a good spot, tbh. Multiple guilds that run often, lots of numbers. I guess Mano has his perspective on it but 9 nights out of 10 I find it difficult to push south of ash due to the numbers I encounter. The M12 night caps will keep them up there if nothing else, strongest late night force in the game atm.

manny254

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Not for nothing, but if VE didn't play tonight on azura, as long as CN and harlocke weren't in farm mode and played the map, I think they'd do quite well. I really disagree with such an old reroll being the main driver behind current alliance imbalances (perceived and real ones), and would suggest that losing havok, nexus, and GoS has had far more of a meaningful impact than the dozen or so VE reroll players you mentioned (though not to discount them and what they bring to the table). I guess, when I see people try to point to rerolls as the reason for why things are stacked against them, part of me wants to shake them and say "that happened 8 months ago, train pugs, ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done". There just aren't enough guilds left to reroll any more in pvp, balance will always be out of whack if it happens now. Literally the only solution is to have more groups playing the map, which makes the anti-group mentality that's taken root in the playerbase even more unfortunate.

And as an aside, a lot of the good pvpers have toons on multiple alliances at this point, and play them. I still fight tatsu on red, I still fight khole members on yellow/red, luna, ghost, tex, and steve will still play their reds and spend time with EP friends, etc. etc. But, it doesn't sound like we're going to agree, which is fine, but I'll stop beating the dead horse.

No it is not. More groups = More lag. This may surprise you , but some people do not want to play in a laggy mess. We can say its all ZoS is fault, but after a certain point it is clear that when large forces clash it will lag.

Players either need to accept this and play thorough the lag or not play in it. Most people choose to not play in it, and can you blame them?

Satiar

manny254 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Not for nothing, but if VE didn't play tonight on azura, as long as CN and harlocke weren't in farm mode and played the map, I think they'd do quite well. I really disagree with such an old reroll being the main driver behind current alliance imbalances (perceived and real ones), and would suggest that losing havok, nexus, and GoS has had far more of a meaningful impact than the dozen or so VE reroll players you mentioned (though not to discount them and what they bring to the table). I guess, when I see people try to point to rerolls as the reason for why things are stacked against them, part of me wants to shake them and say "that happened 8 months ago, train pugs, ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done". There just aren't enough guilds left to reroll any more in pvp, balance will always be out of whack if it happens now. Literally the only solution is to have more groups playing the map, which makes the anti-group mentality that's taken root in the playerbase even more unfortunate.

And as an aside, a lot of the good pvpers have toons on multiple alliances at this point, and play them. I still fight tatsu on red, I still fight khole members on yellow/red, luna, ghost, tex, and steve will still play their reds and spend time with EP friends, etc. etc. But, it doesn't sound like we're going to agree, which is fine, but I'll stop beating the dead horse.

No it is not. More groups = More lag. This may surprise you , but some people do not want to play in a laggy mess. We can say its all ZoS is fault, but after a certain point it is clear that when large forces clash it will lag.

Players either need to accept this and play thorough the lag or not play in it. Most people choose to not play in it, and can you blame them?

I'd venture this convo is about faction strength and being competitive in campaigns, so in that context Zheg is not incorrect.

Manoekin

Satiar wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Pain In The Axe wrote: »

"Pain's guild disintegrated though shortly after VE rerolled, and even then they weren't doing much before that towards the end. He couldn't get many online, and did a lot of wrangling together of whomever he could find at the time he was leading. Most that played with him were absorbed into other guilds on DC. I don't think he took anyone with him, and he rerolled to get away from the new zerg faction IIRC. He;s in Dynamic now?"

Yes Im in dynamic now but I don't get to play with them much anymore since ive been banned from game qq. Pvping at v3 with 100 cp with no gear kinda sucks in this meta lol. This thread is becoming real hard to keep up with :S

Sorry to hear

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

How so for Yellow and Red? I don't know of any guilds who rerolled from DC to EP or AD.

Pain's guild disintegrated though shortly after VE rerolled, and even then they weren't doing much before that towards the end. He couldn't get many online, and did a lot of wrangling together of whomever he could find at the time he was leading. Most that played with him were absorbed into other guilds on DC. I don't think he took anyone with him, and he rerolled to get away from the new zerg faction IIRC. He;s in Dynamic now?

In primetime though all of those people are playing DC, with the exception of myself because I went back, but I'm probably one of a handful that did after rerolling to DC. Some of K Hole does small scale on AD in off hours, but more often than not they play DC.

The only reason the map stays competitive is because you guys make it that way. If you guys instead decided to push South from Roe or East from Chalman instead of taking Brindle/Dragonclaw, that's the straw that would break AD/EPs back.

I don't mean any offense by this, or a knock on anyone. Just observations from my time on DC and the past two months on AD. I'm just talking strictly about those who are on Azuras.

You talked mostly about single players shifting, and that's what I meant was mostly the same, and/or not totally applicable because the ones you listed still play on other alliances. There haven't been guilds rerolling to EP or AD, but again, there really haven't been guilds doing that to blue either. VE was the exception, but that was literally like 8 months ago, and most of those rerolls aren't even in the game anymore, so if you're still counting that as a card, well...

Kholes has also been around for a good while now, run small, and a lot of them still play other alliances (uhh, and don't play on AS...). I'd say the strength of each alliance is apparent to most pvpers at this point, but I disagree with the reroll implication. You listed pretty much every reroll of importance in your previous post, and I can't say I see much impact there.

I think the real reason for victory is apparent. When it comes to inspiration, Pubes > Frozn >>>>>>> Sarenvog. /micdrop

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

My brain hurts now.

It's your baseline. It will stop hurting when you realize that only baddie scrubs will be on arthurians, and only the select 'special' few of those will be on flame wardens.

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Khole has not been on Azuras as far as I know. I have literally never seen them, not even when I'm randomly online at 4am.

I still have plenty of old Red VE members in guild, wasn't long ago we did that Red VE night and just about had a full raid minus a few guests.

Thing I think hurt EP most in all this was honestly Nexus dissolving. They had a solid core of old IR/Hijinx players, a bunch of VE guys who didn't want to reroll and others. Haxus is man for man a stronger guild no doubt, but Nexus had the numbers for map control and had an amazing base of pro and semi-pro players to build off of. No one really replaced what they brought or thier potential, and most old VE and Pride members not invited to Haxus ended up leaving the game.

Thanks to Varren for laying out the EP guild situation, but it looks bleak. There's no harm in running small but when literally all of your elite players and leaders want to small scale, that's just hard on the faction

AD is in a good spot, tbh. Multiple guilds that run often, lots of numbers. I guess Mano has his perspective on it but 9 nights out of 10 I find it difficult to push south of ash due to the numbers I encounter. The M12 night caps will keep them up there if nothing else, strongest late night force in the game atm.

You can keep saying that all you want, but Victorem usually ends their raid around 9est, RÁGE starts really going around 8:30est or later if some of our members were in the Victorem group, and then M12 takes over after RÁGE ends. There may be a total of an hour - 1.5 hour overlap combined there, and that's not every night. Of these guilds also only M12 gets full groups consistently. I haven't even seen TKO but once the last couple of weeks.

PosternHouse

manny254 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Not for nothing, but if VE didn't play tonight on azura, as long as CN and harlocke weren't in farm mode and played the map, I think they'd do quite well. I really disagree with such an old reroll being the main driver behind current alliance imbalances (perceived and real ones), and would suggest that losing havok, nexus, and GoS has had far more of a meaningful impact than the dozen or so VE reroll players you mentioned (though not to discount them and what they bring to the table). I guess, when I see people try to point to rerolls as the reason for why things are stacked against them, part of me wants to shake them and say "that happened 8 months ago, train pugs, ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done". There just aren't enough guilds left to reroll any more in pvp, balance will always be out of whack if it happens now. Literally the only solution is to have more groups playing the map, which makes the anti-group mentality that's taken root in the playerbase even more unfortunate.

And as an aside, a lot of the good pvpers have toons on multiple alliances at this point, and play them. I still fight tatsu on red, I still fight khole members on yellow/red, luna, ghost, tex, and steve will still play their reds and spend time with EP friends, etc. etc. But, it doesn't sound like we're going to agree, which is fine, but I'll stop beating the dead horse.

No it is not. More groups = More lag. This may surprise you , but some people do not want to play in a laggy mess. We can say its all ZoS is fault, but after a certain point it is clear that when large forces clash it will lag.

Players either need to accept this and play thorough the lag or not play in it. Most people choose to not play in it, and can you blame them?

I don't think you're in a position to speak for most people. I tend to see most players on all factions running in some large group or tagging along with it. Soloists and small scale players are the exception, not the rule. It's all dandy if that's your thing. The lag is absolutely not the players' faults either. If so, you're contributing your little bit to it as well every time your skills fire off and sends packets to the server.

PosternHouse

Manoekin wrote:

@PosternHouse to claim "accusations of overwhelming numbers at that point is laughable" is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter if the campaign is triple poplocked, the fights are not going to be fair ever for any side. DC gets accused of it more than others because, if there was another guild group going on Azura at the same time I could quickly get two groups in one place, or to hit multiple objectives. Instead I have pug groups asking me where to go, and then I get told only half the group made it to the objective because the other half wanted to do something else. If not that, they get wiped by less than half their numbers because they're just pugs. Because DC is capable of mobilizing in such a way, the accusations fly in their general direction whether it's legit or not.

You didn't really explain how it's a case of overwhelming numbers. It even seems you agreed: it's about DC organization of its numbers, not that it has more or less than anyone. I think we agree in that case. If AD pugs are doing pug things, they need to be corralled and taught if people want to see them improve. That can't be done without strong leaders who are willing to deal with that amount of frustration.

PhatGrimReaper

Satiar wrote: »

The M12 night caps will keep them up there if nothing else, strongest late night force in the game atm.

All DC has this complex about M12 Nightcapping.... last night during Oceanic we were 16-20 strong and fought 20-35 blues at almost every objective.
Trying to create an illusion of us rolling 40 deep and stomping over 5 dudes as we flood the map yellow is a little short sighted and unnecessary. The Oceanic timezone is actually fairly even for numbers most nights, it's the level of organisation that differs with Red almost always getting the short end of the stick of the three factions.... unless RAM are running.

Telel

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Telel you are a good guy. You fight for what you believe and thats the Dominion. You want freedom for Khajiits and readily available medicine for fleas for all khajiits for free, in the poorest khajiiti neighborhoods.

But you, Mojican, Crown, the rest of the AD army are very naive and foolish. Sarenvog doesn't seek Dominion victory. He seeks the total control of every living creature on Nirn. COVENANT spies have come across some very unsettling and quite frankly terrifying information very recently. While the Dominion has been focused on the COVENANT and Pact in Cyrodiil, Sarenvog along with a small group of dissidents within the yellow ranks are searching for "the ultimate power". A power that has been around since the dawn of people playing online games. A power so ungodly that it can even bring the aedra and deadric princes to their knees. And uttering its name gives the developers ulcers. It's called LAG Telel! YES I SAID IT! LAG!!!

Sarenvog seeks to somehow bring the lag under his control and to wield it against all! I was tasked by the COVENANT leaders to go on a not so top secret mission to find what Sarenvog and the dissidents are up to, and to at all costs stop them from achieving their dastardly goals. Also preliminary reports point to Haxus being on Sarenvog's payroll as muscle at his beckon call. Apparently Hektik is easy to negotiate with when you have a box of raisinets.

I was also told that I am allowed one companion to help me on this journey.... A journey that I might not come back from. I choose Wikket of CN.

Wish me luck for all safety and freedom of Nirn is at stake. I always felt in my heart that Scipio had a special role to play in the story of ESO.

Lies! everyone knows the only ones with access to the lag switch and all the cheat codes are the members of that super secret cabal known as Havoc! And you can only join them by being a filthy mean EP, and asking 'hey guys can I have cheat codes too so long as I am not Sarenvog'. Then you become part of the illuminati and know all the exploits. 0.0

Of course people try and tell this one havoc is no longer a guild and never even knew such mystical knowledge. But the hamsters who taught this one how to gank are most adamant someone is being lied to.

Satiar

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

The M12 night caps will keep them up there if nothing else, strongest late night force in the game atm.

All DC has this complex about M12 Nightcapping.... last night during Oceanic we were 16-20 strong and fought 20-35 blues at almost every objective.
Trying to create an illusion of us rolling 40 deep and stomping over 5 dudes as we flood the map yellow is a little short sighted and unnecessary. The Oceanic timezone is actually fairly even for numbers most nights, it's the level of organisation that differs with Red almost always getting the short end of the stick of the three factions.... unless RAM are running.

DC has begun staying up later to fight the AD late night groups. I know I make an effort to run 6-12 people after main raid, because if not AD tends to just run everything over.

And I'm not really exaggerating either. This campaign on more than one occasion I've run into M12 with over 50 people in a stacked group, trying to PvDoor keeps against 1bar pops. Is what it is, but it's definitely the strongest late night force around.

manny254

Satiar wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Not for nothing, but if VE didn't play tonight on azura, as long as CN and harlocke weren't in farm mode and played the map, I think they'd do quite well. I really disagree with such an old reroll being the main driver behind current alliance imbalances (perceived and real ones), and would suggest that losing havok, nexus, and GoS has had far more of a meaningful impact than the dozen or so VE reroll players you mentioned (though not to discount them and what they bring to the table). I guess, when I see people try to point to rerolls as the reason for why things are stacked against them, part of me wants to shake them and say "that happened 8 months ago, train pugs, ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done". There just aren't enough guilds left to reroll any more in pvp, balance will always be out of whack if it happens now. Literally the only solution is to have more groups playing the map, which makes the anti-group mentality that's taken root in the playerbase even more unfortunate.

And as an aside, a lot of the good pvpers have toons on multiple alliances at this point, and play them. I still fight tatsu on red, I still fight khole members on yellow/red, luna, ghost, tex, and steve will still play their reds and spend time with EP friends, etc. etc. But, it doesn't sound like we're going to agree, which is fine, but I'll stop beating the dead horse.

No it is not. More groups = More lag. This may surprise you , but some people do not want to play in a laggy mess. We can say its all ZoS is fault, but after a certain point it is clear that when large forces clash it will lag.

Players either need to accept this and play thorough the lag or not play in it. Most people choose to not play in it, and can you blame them?

I'd venture this convo is about faction strength and being competitive in campaigns, so in that context Zheg is not incorrect.

So getting more groups on EP and AD would not cause more lag. Players in said hypothetical groups would have to play in lag. IDK about you but from what I have seen most people despise lag.

PosternHouse wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Not for nothing, but if VE didn't play tonight on azura, as long as CN and harlocke weren't in farm mode and played the map, I think they'd do quite well. I really disagree with such an old reroll being the main driver behind current alliance imbalances (perceived and real ones), and would suggest that losing havok, nexus, and GoS has had far more of a meaningful impact than the dozen or so VE reroll players you mentioned (though not to discount them and what they bring to the table). I guess, when I see people try to point to rerolls as the reason for why things are stacked against them, part of me wants to shake them and say "that happened 8 months ago, train pugs, ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done". There just aren't enough guilds left to reroll any more in pvp, balance will always be out of whack if it happens now. Literally the only solution is to have more groups playing the map, which makes the anti-group mentality that's taken root in the playerbase even more unfortunate.

And as an aside, a lot of the good pvpers have toons on multiple alliances at this point, and play them. I still fight tatsu on red, I still fight khole members on yellow/red, luna, ghost, tex, and steve will still play their reds and spend time with EP friends, etc. etc. But, it doesn't sound like we're going to agree, which is fine, but I'll stop beating the dead horse.

No it is not. More groups = More lag. This may surprise you , but some people do not want to play in a laggy mess. We can say its all ZoS is fault, but after a certain point it is clear that when large forces clash it will lag.

Players either need to accept this and play thorough the lag or not play in it. Most people choose to not play in it, and can you blame them?

I don't think you're in a position to speak for most people. I tend to see most players on all factions running in some large group or tagging along with it. Soloists and small scale players are the exception, not the rule. It's all dandy if that's your thing. The lag is absolutely not the players' faults either. If so, you're contributing your little bit to it as well every time your skills fire off and sends packets to the server.

Well if you know that playing in prime time causes lag then yes everyone is contributing to lag. If you play in a large group you are going to cause more lag then a small one. Lag is related to the total pop on the entire server, but if I am rolling in a small group I have never seen it lag because of a fight I am directly responsible for. No intellectually honest large group can sit here and tell me that lag does not result from a large portion of fights they are responsible for.

Arashiha

I am beginning to see why people spend so much time on the forums at work, these can really be very entertaining to read. and hey! i've been mentioned in a forum not once but twice! and it wasn't in regards to me being aussie~

an hrmm, well now i type this i realize i am not really adding to this conversation in any real constructive or supportive way so... please hold.

Lag is lag, it is what it is, we know why its there and what not so please move on and stop bringing it up in threads that the topic has little to nothing to do with it. TY

anyway, i agree with quite a few points made in here that the main difference between the factions is the level of organised guilds or rather the guild leadership, in that department DC is stacked.. through the roof with guilds like CN and VE and the pug wranglers we have on multiple servers :P Although in saying this like steve mentioned Nexus use to be one hell of a force to push against for us, and they produce some of the most enjoyable competition VE has had since we re rolled but sadly they haven't been replace by another guild. and since then only more highly organised and skilled guilds of ep have disbanded. Now in saying this EP is not lacking population or skill at all, they just need there leaders, and guilds to step up to the plate if they wish to see progress and dominance as a faction once more. As for yellow i have no real experience from that perspective so i direct everyone back to Mano's comments since even being on the receiving end of some of the huge AD blob groups i have been on my ep enough to see dc is just as bad, as is red.. so.. i don;t care if even my own guildies are calling him out for stacking.. 50+.. he is a AD guild leader? or at least raid lead of the most.. organised and competitive guild they have currently on AZ during prime time thus i am inclined to refer to his perspective of the state of AD at this time.

In short, guilds rerolling wouldn't help anyone as it would just shift the dominance to a different faction, it just needs the current guilds and faction leaders to step up to make there own faction a dominant or competitive force once more. And i know many of said faction leaders and guilds have become collections of hardcore small group guilds this doesn't help or allow your faction to be competitive in the slightest.

manny254

Arashiha wrote: »

I am beginning to see why people spend so much time on the forums at work, these can really be very entertaining to read. and hey! i've been mentioned in a forum not once but twice! and it wasn't in regards to me being aussie~


Lag is lag, it is what it is, we know why its there and what not so please move on and stop bringing it up in threads that the topic has little to nothing to do with it. TY

a

So if all 3 factions stacked 3 raids together and caused the server to explode that would be irrelevant? Large groups clashing in AZ during prime time will cause lag. No one can dispute that. Ignoring that and just telling people to get more groups is a mistake.

Zheg

manny254 wrote: »

Arashiha wrote: »

I am beginning to see why people spend so much time on the forums at work, these can really be very entertaining to read. and hey! i've been mentioned in a forum not once but twice! and it wasn't in regards to me being aussie~


Lag is lag, it is what it is, we know why its there and what not so please move on and stop bringing it up in threads that the topic has little to nothing to do with it. TY

a

So if all 3 factions stacked 3 raids together and caused the server to explode that would be irrelevant? Large groups clashing in AZ during prime time will cause lag. No one can dispute that. Ignoring that and just telling people to get more groups is a mistake.

FFS. The point being made in the past few posts is that the current population of pugs need to organize and stop being puggy. The lag will be unchanged on a pop locked campaign with 100% pugs vs a pop locked campaign with 50% pugs and 50% organized groups. What is so difficult to understand about that? In fact, what happens when you DON'T have organized groups is exactly what red has been saying is happening to them - the pugs end up stacking in monstrous numbers (which makes your lag worse). You're one of the ESO hipsters that's anti group, we get it already, but if you're talking lag, having no organized presence in each alliance means zergs galore, I shouldn't have to tell an experienced pvper that.

frozywozy

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

@zyk - I think you're my new best friend. Respect toward everything you've said so far in here. But don't let them troll you back, most intelligent people know you're right, they just will never admit it. If DC would play for objectives, the map would be blue 75% of the day but they won't because they wanna make it look like they worked hard to win the campaign.

In the end, like you've said, we all know that they're going easy mode on people with much lower skills and experience since 3-4months ago. They keep rolling over them gathering the ap flow. As you said, EP will either start moving to other campaigns or they will simply leave the game.

Funny part is, lot of people who were running in the ballgroups gate camping tonight around Chim temple said plenty of times in these forums not more than 2months ago that their guild would never gate farm because it is not good for the morale. Made me laugh when they charged me 24v1 a couple times.

If it wasn't for the horrible lag coming with the ballgroups I would probably stay but as soon as either Haderus or Trueflame get some action during the day I'm out of Azura fo sure. The community is getting way too toxic and arrogant.

Maybe one day you will realize that if you don't run your mouth so much about everyone in our guild, we may not zerg you down 24v1, but until that day as soon as some says they see frozn, I will continue to yell zerg him down!

I don't run my mouth about VE ever. I encourage people to run in smaller groups and everytime, I get a reply from one of VE members full of arrogance, insults and frustration. I've said good things about Vehemence times and times again the past couple months such as their efforts to move away from zergs when they see them or to unstack from other guilds as much as possible or the fact that they have alot of experience overall (lot of players who play since beta).

What do I get in return ? People trash talking about my guild and shaming me on a regular basis. I've never shamed or insulted Vehemence as a guild even if I don't agree with all their politics. I only encourage people to run in smaller groups. If you don't wanna do it that's entirely up to you but it's not a reason to bash on me every single occasion you get.

Hope that helps clear things out.

I think every other post you make on these forums is bashing us, we just got sick of it. I haven't seen anything positive from you regarding our guild since Bulb made the post announcing our re-roll, idk what you seem to think has changed besides faction frozn but things still work exactly how they did when you were in VE, and you didn't seem to have a problem with it then.

"Things still work exactly how they did when you were in VE". I'm sorry but when I was in VE and participating in a ton of 24men groups out there, the server could easily handle a campaign max pop with different fights happening on the map and 40+ players on the screen without lagging up to 1-2k ping every single time.

I don't know what Zenimax did to the servers or if it's the fact that players got even better at optimizing their playstyle creating even more calculations than before or a mix of both, but what is sure is that the game is not running as smoothly as it used to and this is the reason why I don't run in 24men groups any longer.

Satiar wrote: »

EP has the numbers and the guilds. They just don't organize or play in a way that is conducive to map control. They kinda had the same 3-guild set-up as DC: Haxus, Dynamic and Pact Militia opposed to VE, CN and HM.

Haxus was always a worthy opponent but they never seemed willing to train new recruits, and now they barely have numbers to field a group and I rarely see them on Azuras. Dynamic I think always wanted to stay small. Pact Militia pulls most of the weight as far as I see, just through sheer numbers. It's frustrating to see a faction with so many players and so much talent and yet no one has managed to pull together a decent sized guild focused on actually winning the map they're playing on.

One of the strength of EP at the moment is focusing on map control. They are not always successful at it because DC is just too fast at defending their keeps but they have shown some serious skills and coordination between guilds. Pact, Sotp, Bftp, SL, PR and Vok have been coordinating alot together and it's not rare that we will flag 3-4objectives together with considerable amounts of players on each.

Sieging also improved a ton the past 2months. I rarely see members of said guilds sieging walls with fire balistas or meatbags anymore , something that was not rare before. Most of them use stone trebs and can get walls down in a few minutes, really satisfied about that overall.

The problem is the mentality of some EP group leaders who don't care to improve their gameplay but would rather stack as many players as they can to overcome the enemy. EP players need so many advices with gear, champion points, abilities and general battle mechanics, you have no idea.

There are so many different details that EP is not aware of that would make all the difference. For example, stacking impen, using immovable pots before aoe fights, running proximity det, healing through walls, running a reasonable amount of sustain, SITUATION AWARENESS (avoid the enemy bomb groups instead of standing right in the middle and dying in a fraction of second), templars using one hand shield instead of resto/resto or resto/dual wield.

The list goes on, I get surprised everyday by what I though was known since forever but people still haven't figured it out yet. But like I've said, until those people understand that they need help (we're not trying to force them to play a certain way) and accept the help, we cannot force their hand.

Zheg wrote: »

ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done".

Satiar wrote: »

There's no harm in running small but when literally all of your elite players and leaders want to small scale, that's just hard on the faction

There is a huge difference between small scale and a 16men group.

@manny254 - You have some good points there and I'm looking forward into more people realizing that until Zenimax fixes the lag, people's behaviours are our only hope to play in reasonable conditions.

manny254

Zheg wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Arashiha wrote: »

I am beginning to see why people spend so much time on the forums at work, these can really be very entertaining to read. and hey! i've been mentioned in a forum not once but twice! and it wasn't in regards to me being aussie~


Lag is lag, it is what it is, we know why its there and what not so please move on and stop bringing it up in threads that the topic has little to nothing to do with it. TY

a

So if all 3 factions stacked 3 raids together and caused the server to explode that would be irrelevant? Large groups clashing in AZ during prime time will cause lag. No one can dispute that. Ignoring that and just telling people to get more groups is a mistake.

FFS. The point being made in the past few posts is that the current population of pugs need to organize and stop being puggy. The lag will be unchanged on a pop locked campaign with 100% pugs vs a pop locked campaign with 50% pugs and 50% organized groups. What is so difficult to understand about that? In fact, what happens when you DON'T have organized groups is exactly what red has been saying is happening to them - the pugs end up stacking in monstrous numbers (which makes your lag worse). You're one of the ESO hipsters that's anti group, we get it already, but if you're talking lag, having no organized presence in each alliance means zergs galore, I shouldn't have to tell an experienced pvper that.

I disagree with you so my opinion is obviously some conspiracy to break up your big group. If I am anti group then why do I group with other players?

Zheg are you going to honestly sit here and tell me that a stacked group of 24 creates less lag than a group of 24 pugs scattered? So on a 1 to 1 ratio more lag is created from a large group per player. Your argument about organized groups reducing the mob would mean something if they never ran with the mob. I am pretty sure we all know that they do run with the mob. Especially based on what I hear you guys where doing with chim last night.

Satiar

manny254 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Arashiha wrote: »

I am beginning to see why people spend so much time on the forums at work, these can really be very entertaining to read. and hey! i've been mentioned in a forum not once but twice! and it wasn't in regards to me being aussie~


Lag is lag, it is what it is, we know why its there and what not so please move on and stop bringing it up in threads that the topic has little to nothing to do with it. TY

a

So if all 3 factions stacked 3 raids together and caused the server to explode that would be irrelevant? Large groups clashing in AZ during prime time will cause lag. No one can dispute that. Ignoring that and just telling people to get more groups is a mistake.

FFS. The point being made in the past few posts is that the current population of pugs need to organize and stop being puggy. The lag will be unchanged on a pop locked campaign with 100% pugs vs a pop locked campaign with 50% pugs and 50% organized groups. What is so difficult to understand about that? In fact, what happens when you DON'T have organized groups is exactly what red has been saying is happening to them - the pugs end up stacking in monstrous numbers (which makes your lag worse). You're one of the ESO hipsters that's anti group, we get it already, but if you're talking lag, having no organized presence in each alliance means zergs galore, I shouldn't have to tell an experienced pvper that.

I disagree with you so my opinion is obviously some conspiracy to break up your big group. If I am anti group then why do I group with other players?

Zheg are you going to honestly sit here and tell me that a stacked group of 24 creates less lag than a group of 24 pugs scattered? So on a 1 to 1 ratio more lag is created from a large group per player. Your argument about organized groups reducing the mob would mean something if they never ran with the mob. I am pretty sure we all know that they do run with the mob. Especially based on what I hear you guys where doing with chim last night.

We were unhappy enough that we couldn't even find a fight in a scroll temple that we dropped the scroll and shortly thereafter logged off. A combination of CN following us from Arrius to KC to Chim and EP simply not showing up made that whole thing a ***. Once it became obvious that it wasn't going to get any less stupid we left, no interest in being inside EPs gates with 50 people .

I was more surprised that EP had a lock pop and didn't even come out to defend Arrius. Rage logged early too, along with whatever else yellow had going, awful night all around.

Zheg

manny254 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Arashiha wrote: »

I am beginning to see why people spend so much time on the forums at work, these can really be very entertaining to read. and hey! i've been mentioned in a forum not once but twice! and it wasn't in regards to me being aussie~


Lag is lag, it is what it is, we know why its there and what not so please move on and stop bringing it up in threads that the topic has little to nothing to do with it. TY

a

So if all 3 factions stacked 3 raids together and caused the server to explode that would be irrelevant? Large groups clashing in AZ during prime time will cause lag. No one can dispute that. Ignoring that and just telling people to get more groups is a mistake.

FFS. The point being made in the past few posts is that the current population of pugs need to organize and stop being puggy. The lag will be unchanged on a pop locked campaign with 100% pugs vs a pop locked campaign with 50% pugs and 50% organized groups. What is so difficult to understand about that? In fact, what happens when you DON'T have organized groups is exactly what red has been saying is happening to them - the pugs end up stacking in monstrous numbers (which makes your lag worse). You're one of the ESO hipsters that's anti group, we get it already, but if you're talking lag, having no organized presence in each alliance means zergs galore, I shouldn't have to tell an experienced pvper that.

I disagree with you so my opinion is obviously some conspiracy to break up your big group. If I am anti group then why do I group with other players?

Zheg are you going to honestly sit here and tell me that a stacked group of 24 creates less lag than a group of 24 pugs scattered? So on a 1 to 1 ratio more lag is created from a large group per player. Your argument about organized groups reducing the mob would mean something if they never ran with the mob. I am pretty sure we all know that they do run with the mob. Especially based on what I hear you guys where doing with chim last night.

Am I going to say that an organized group of 24 creates less lag than a group of 24 scattered pugs? No. Am I going to say that the difference in ping whenever I see 24 pugs in a keep vs 24 in a group in a keep is absolutely negligible and I lag the same amount based on what I can tell? Yeppers.

As to chim last night, apparently you missed the post a few up where I said (correctly, mind you) that when all competition is gone everyone ends up at a single objective because there's nothing left on that map. Much as people like to spout the evils of groups, they don't seem to like to want to hear that they can in fact help keep the zergs from getting ultra zergy.

Dyride

manny254 wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

I'm not trying to start an argument about this with you Zheg, but I'm sorry I don't see how that's mostly the same with single players shifting. I know many who have created DC toons and rerolled over there. I know of two people who no longer play DC, myself and Pain. I can't say I remember the last time I saw the players I listed playing on other alliances, either.

Xylena's guild disappeared after she rerolled, and Tiberius' guild did as well. While all of these rerolls happened 8 months ago, the effects are being felt profoundly now. Rerolling has a ripple effect, we saw the same thing happen when DiE split from AD.

While most of the red VE who rerolled are no longer ingame, are you saying that if the remaining ones left, that the native blues in VE would be as strong of a force without them? You have two of the arguably best leads in the game with Steve and Bulb, and core players like Fruity, Tex, Luna, Ghost, etc. VE has also taken a lot of single/solo/small scale players into their mix to strengthen themselves as well, where as before they were not huge parts of campaign control.

There was just a guild recently that rerolled to DC, the Japanese one. I used K Hole as an example because it was AD players that used to play on Azuras, that for the most part no longer do so. K Hole has been on Azuras this past campaign, though not during primetime and as of the past week or so.

Without any of these rerolls happening, DC wouldn't have won the campaign. It might have happened 8 months ago, but it's materialized these past campaigns.

Oh also, completely agree, Pubes is top dog.

Not for nothing, but if VE didn't play tonight on azura, as long as CN and harlocke weren't in farm mode and played the map, I think they'd do quite well. I really disagree with such an old reroll being the main driver behind current alliance imbalances (perceived and real ones), and would suggest that losing havok, nexus, and GoS has had far more of a meaningful impact than the dozen or so VE reroll players you mentioned (though not to discount them and what they bring to the table). I guess, when I see people try to point to rerolls as the reason for why things are stacked against them, part of me wants to shake them and say "that happened 8 months ago, train pugs, ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done". There just aren't enough guilds left to reroll any more in pvp, balance will always be out of whack if it happens now. Literally the only solution is to have more groups playing the map, which makes the anti-group mentality that's taken root in the playerbase even more unfortunate.

And as an aside, a lot of the good pvpers have toons on multiple alliances at this point, and play them. I still fight tatsu on red, I still fight khole members on yellow/red, luna, ghost, tex, and steve will still play their reds and spend time with EP friends, etc. etc. But, it doesn't sound like we're going to agree, which is fine, but I'll stop beating the dead horse.

No it is not. More groups = More lag. This may surprise you , but some people do not want to play in a laggy mess. We can say its all ZoS is fault, but after a certain point it is clear that when large forces clash it will lag.

Players either need to accept this and play thorough the lag or not play in it. Most people choose to not play in it, and can you blame them?

Organized groups take keeps faster and typically push objectives past the front between objectives owned by opposing factions. This spreads the field and keeps the map in flux rather than concentrating populations at only 3-4 objectives.

Slower keep takes is the recipe for a lagfest as the numbers for either side balloon as more groups and solo players join the fray.

This is why so many people are skeptical of the incoming changes for siege and such because they will favor defense and concentrate the population.

Satiar

frozywozy wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

@zyk - I think you're my new best friend. Respect toward everything you've said so far in here. But don't let them troll you back, most intelligent people know you're right, they just will never admit it. If DC would play for objectives, the map would be blue 75% of the day but they won't because they wanna make it look like they worked hard to win the campaign.

In the end, like you've said, we all know that they're going easy mode on people with much lower skills and experience since 3-4months ago. They keep rolling over them gathering the ap flow. As you said, EP will either start moving to other campaigns or they will simply leave the game.

Funny part is, lot of people who were running in the ballgroups gate camping tonight around Chim temple said plenty of times in these forums not more than 2months ago that their guild would never gate farm because it is not good for the morale. Made me laugh when they charged me 24v1 a couple times.

If it wasn't for the horrible lag coming with the ballgroups I would probably stay but as soon as either Haderus or Trueflame get some action during the day I'm out of Azura fo sure. The community is getting way too toxic and arrogant.

Maybe one day you will realize that if you don't run your mouth so much about everyone in our guild, we may not zerg you down 24v1, but until that day as soon as some says they see frozn, I will continue to yell zerg him down!

I don't run my mouth about VE ever. I encourage people to run in smaller groups and everytime, I get a reply from one of VE members full of arrogance, insults and frustration. I've said good things about Vehemence times and times again the past couple months such as their efforts to move away from zergs when they see them or to unstack from other guilds as much as possible or the fact that they have alot of experience overall (lot of players who play since beta).

What do I get in return ? People trash talking about my guild and shaming me on a regular basis. I've never shamed or insulted Vehemence as a guild even if I don't agree with all their politics. I only encourage people to run in smaller groups. If you don't wanna do it that's entirely up to you but it's not a reason to bash on me every single occasion you get.

Hope that helps clear things out.

I think every other post you make on these forums is bashing us, we just got sick of it. I haven't seen anything positive from you regarding our guild since Bulb made the post announcing our re-roll, idk what you seem to think has changed besides faction frozn but things still work exactly how they did when you were in VE, and you didn't seem to have a problem with it then.

"Things still work exactly how they did when you were in VE". I'm sorry but when I was in VE and participating in a ton of 24men groups out there, the server could easily handle a campaign max pop with different fights happening on the map and 40+ players on the screen without lagging up to 1-2k ping every single time.

I don't know what Zenimax did to the servers or if it's the fact that players got even better at optimizing their playstyle creating even more calculations than before or a mix of both, but what is sure is that the game is not running as smoothly as it used to and this is the reason why I don't run in 24men groups any longer.

Satiar wrote: »

EP has the numbers and the guilds. They just don't organize or play in a way that is conducive to map control. They kinda had the same 3-guild set-up as DC: Haxus, Dynamic and Pact Militia opposed to VE, CN and HM.

Haxus was always a worthy opponent but they never seemed willing to train new recruits, and now they barely have numbers to field a group and I rarely see them on Azuras. Dynamic I think always wanted to stay small. Pact Militia pulls most of the weight as far as I see, just through sheer numbers. It's frustrating to see a faction with so many players and so much talent and yet no one has managed to pull together a decent sized guild focused on actually winning the map they're playing on.

One of the strength of EP at the moment is focusing on map control. They are not always successful at it because DC is just too fast at defending their keeps but they have shown some serious skills and coordination between guilds. Pact, Sotp, Bftp, SL, PR and Vok have been coordinating alot together and it's not rare that we will flag 3-4objectives together with considerable amounts of players on each.

Sieging also improved a ton the past 2months. I rarely see members of said guilds sieging walls with fire balistas or meatbags anymore , something that was not rare before. Most of them use stone trebs and can get walls down in a few minutes, really satisfied about that overall.

The problem is the mentality of some EP group leaders who don't care to improve their gameplay but would rather stack as many players as they can to overcome the enemy. EP players need so many advices with gear, champion points, abilities and general battle mechanics, you have no idea.

There are so many different details that EP is not aware of that would make all the difference. For example, stacking impen, using immovable pots before aoe fights, running proximity det, healing through walls, running a reasonable amount of sustain, SITUATION AWARENESS (avoid the enemy bomb groups instead of standing right in the middle and dying in a fraction of second), templars using one hand shield instead of resto/resto or resto/dual wield.

The list goes on, I get surprised everyday by what I though was known since forever but people still haven't figured it out yet. But like I've said, until those people understand that they need help (we're not trying to force them to play a certain way) and accept the help, we cannot force their hand.

Zheg wrote: »

ignore the ESO hipster toxic trend of thumbing your nose at running a group large enough to actually play objectives, and get stuff done".

Satiar wrote: »

There's no harm in running small but when literally all of your elite players and leaders want to small scale, that's just hard on the faction

There is a huge difference between small scale and a 16men group.

What EP groups that you would consider competitive regularly run 16 people or more?

Good work with EP tho. Someone's gotta teach them. Though, I should note that what you're teaching them is basically a simple version of what we do, and you have expressed strong feelings on what we do.