End Game Stamina Nightblade Build- PvE DPS (Updated for Clockwork City)

iRogue32

@Gilliamtherogue would the 5 piece night mothers also work better than hundings for a stamplar?

Gilliamtherogue

iRogue32 wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue would the 5 piece night mothers also work better than hundings for a stamplar?

For solo play? Based on the information I received from a few others it seemed like it wouldn't, although they didn't test in full legendary or even v16 gear. Usually when working when % amps a lot of that stuff matters, and since Nightmother's increases damage done by a %, it scales better the stronger you already are. Due to stamplar DPS being very reliant on Burning Light procs, and Burning Light using spell penetration, it seems unlikely to beat Hunding's, but would be extremely close. If you're looking for more group play however, and you know no one is running 5pc NM, I'd shoot for that instead.

iRogue32

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

iRogue32 wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue would the 5 piece night mothers also work better than hundings for a stamplar?

For solo play? Based on the information I received from a few others it seemed like it wouldn't, although they didn't test in full legendary or even v16 gear. Usually when working when % amps a lot of that stuff matters, and since Nightmother's increases damage done by a %, it scales better the stronger you already are. Due to stamplar DPS being very reliant on Burning Light procs, and Burning Light using spell penetration, it seems unlikely to beat Hunding's, but would be extremely close. If you're looking for more group play however, and you know no one is running 5pc NM, I'd shoot for that instead.

Awesome. Thank you so much for all the testing you put in to come up with this kick ass build!

Asayre

Would you mind checking the CHD again for me, @Gilliamtherogue? I tried it on my magicka NB so excuse the low damage. I used a sword and did a full heavy attack on Giants in The Rift just now and these are my results



My understanding is that CHD is rounded to 2 decimal places so rounding off Precise Strikes occurs. There is an additional caveat to the rounding but I observe the jump points in my test.

And thank you for the clarification with respect to Caltrops.

Could I ask how you are simulating combat? I've been thinking about making one myself but haven't had a fully thought out plan.

Gilliamtherogue

Asayre wrote: »

Would you mind checking the CHD again for me, @Gilliamtherogue? I tried it on my magicka NB so excuse the low damage. I used a sword and did a full heavy attack on Giants in The Rift just now and these are my results



My understanding is that CHD is rounded to 2 decimal places so rounding off Precise Strikes occurs. There is an additional caveat to the rounding but I observe the jump points in my test.

And thank you for the clarification with respect to Caltrops.

Could I ask how you are simulating combat? I've been thinking about making one myself but haven't had a fully thought out plan.

I just double checked my CP load out after you brought it up, the one I have linked is slightly inaccurate. I have been running 56 into Precise Strikes and 7 into Piercing. I was confused as to why you mentioned my CHD should be 1.94, but based on my CP load out I placed that makes sense.

I have found my notes about the JP that I wrote in my theory crafting book. I have marked that for my old setup (I was missing 1 divines) that I was always 1 CP off from your listed JP's, which I had found out was because the 2nd decimal place is ignored in the final damage/healing dealt, but is still considered if it is added with another source. Looking back, since my CHD from shadow was now 18.3 and instead 17.4, so that .1% sometimes put me over before the JP was met. For some reason I assumed that it was fixed rather than I had gotten full Divines again. Completely my error on that.

The way my simulator runs is I have a preset "rotation" determined where I input values for non critical and critical damage on the ability I currently test with (usually surprise attack) and then also do a separate one for light attacks. I then have it set to run a certain amount of complete queues based on how often I can properly weave one LA+SA, which gets shorter as I improve. At the moment I am down to .91 seconds for a full weave to complete and a new attack can be queued. On top of the damage values I put it, I also have non critical chance and critical chance input for each attack. I then do a simulation for 4 different parse types; 10 complete weaves, 25 complete weaves, 50 complete weaves, and 100 complete weaves. This allows me to see if a certain trait/stat is better for burst, or for longer fights. It simply rolls a chance emulator for each disclosed amount (if I did the 25 it would roll 25 LA's and 25 SA's based on the % chance I inputed, that way I can do it multiple times and get more accurate values to a chaotic system, rather than just perfect math).

My old method used to be to just do the same setup but on pen and paper and just multiply say 50 x my crit chance and multiply that by how much damage the critical hit would do, and then take the remaining non crits and multiply that by the damage of non crits. It gave perfect math, but not only was it really time consuming and prone to mistakes, but I figured how often are you going to get exact crit chance rolls for each of your abilities? My new system is much more accurate to how things actually pan out.

Shader_Shibes

Would you still use Nerieneth if 1 piece was light not medium? If not, just replace with Hundings or maybe sheer venom you think?

LeifErickson

Is two piece Nerien'eth really better than running 4 piece Hunding's Rage? Or is Nerien'eth always better?

Edit: If I don't have Nerien'eth yet, what are some good replacements for it? I have Molag Kena and Bloodspawn and I could craft more Hunding's if that would replace it well.

ColtPython

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

... the gear setup I have posted is the maximum yield for damage in a solo scenario, and only slightly outshined by Essence Thief 5 piece or Hunding's Rage 5 piece IF someone else has NM running in group.

Does the Essence Thief outshine NM by itself or would someone else need to be wearing NM as well? Additionally, do all 5 pieces of Essence Thief need to be divines?

remilafo

comment for bookmark later.

Cuyler

Thanks for sharing Gill!

Celas_Dranacea

Wow - I just nerded out hard on this nerd gamer math - amazing job and thank you so much for sharing with the community. Identified several tweaks to my build I'm gonna make though I'll keep my own twist so I'm not a total ripoff!

Gilliamtherogue

ColtPython wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

... the gear setup I have posted is the maximum yield for damage in a solo scenario, and only slightly outshined by Essence Thief 5 piece or Hunding's Rage 5 piece IF someone else has NM running in group.

Does the Essence Thief outshine NM by itself or would someone else need to be wearing NM as well? Additionally, do all 5 pieces of Essence Thief need to be divines?

In some situations it does, I'd still like to get more data before I make an overall statement, but Essence Thief is definitely a situational gear setup. It is not favorable to use in some instances which I will explain in the break down later.

LeifErickson wrote: »

Is two piece Nerien'eth really better than running 4 piece Hunding's Rage? Or is Nerien'eth always better?

Edit: If I don't have Nerien'eth yet, what are some good replacements for it? I have Molag Kena and Bloodspawn and I could craft more Hunding's if that would replace it well.

Most definitely. The only other two piece set in game at the moment that comes even near Nerien'eth is Molag Kena, but is still out preformed by Nerien'eth, and causes you to have resource management issues. The only way I'd replace Nerien is if I unlocked a new 5 piece bonus that had a DPS value some what close to Ravager. If Rav gets a v16 version with all divines and robust jewelry, I'll definitely try it out.

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Would you still use Nerieneth if 1 piece was light not medium? If not, just replace with Hundings or maybe sheer venom you think?

I would use it in the mean time yes, the amount of damage that 2 piece proc is absolutely insane. Definitely keep trying to get divines medium helm/shoulders for it though, since that little bit of extra crit from medium makes a nice difference. The two piece alone is worth getting though, check out my self parse image where it procced 10 times on a single target fight, for almost 1700 dps alone. Pretty crazy!

ryanborror

@Gilliamtherogue what do you think of nerieneth over kena for magicka Templar dps? Also for Stam night blade is scorched earth/bow worth running without maelstrom bow?

Gilliamtherogue

ryanborror wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue what do you think of nerieneth over kena for magicka Templar dps? Also for Stam night blade is scorched earth/bow worth running without maelstrom bow?

If you use Dark Flare instead of Jabs it could work, although I think most opt to take Kena instead. Magicka builds usually don't have the resource issues compared to stamina due to the large amount of utility options for magicka compared to stam.

I ran scorched earlier on a toon without the bow, it is still a great DoT and there's not much else you can run in its place for overall DPS that would be better, so yes definitely I'd run it without it. The bow will offer a very large buff to it though, so it's definitely worth doing vma to get one.

Zinaroth

I would be very interested in seeing what DPS you could pull in actual trial content, so for example a boss fight, because that is what really counts. Looks like a solid build and well written, but kind of missing a trial boss video.

Xantaria

So Gilliam. Still no Twice-Born? xD

So let's compare.

You loose 5.86% Damage from not having the 5-Piece Nightmother according to you
You loose 6.28% Critical Strike Chance
You loose 1 Weapon Damage Set Bonus

You Gain 16.3% Crit from Running Thief
You Gain 1 Stamina Set Bonus
(You Gain Extra Health and Magicka)

---

You exchange:
10.02% Crit (which according to you is 9.519% damage unbuffed and 14.2284% damage fully buffed) for 5.86% Damage.
You also Exchange 1 Stamina Bonus for 1 Weapon Damage Bonus (not that big of a deal).
You also gain Health and Magicka.

How can this not be worth it in your opinion?
[snip] This will be the only and last time I'll enlighten you because we're enemies. Never forget vDSA.

But according to my calculations atleast your choice for 7 medium is correct and tbh I haven't gone through what @Asayre caculated there but with my maths it was pretty significant that 7 medium outperforms 5 1 1.

Also overthink your decision of picking Nerien'eth (600-800DPS (~2,5% of your DPS I would hope)) over 3,14% Crit and even 1 Weapon Damage Bonus on top of that. Dont Cripple yourself lol.

And remember if you do 2k dps with it in AoE 60k dps it's worth the same as if it would do 1k dps in 30k DPS situations. Don't fool yourself with wrong arguments like: 'It's totally worth it on AoE.' It's NOT. Yes the AoE CAN hit multiple targets but this just doesn't happen often enough to justify the use of it. It would have to do 1,5k+ Single Target DPS to be good.


[snip]

[Edited for flammatory commentary]

ColtPython

Would you mind also sharing your DPS numbers for the following:

• Crematorial Guard
• The Adjudicator

I'm not really looking for screen shot parses a simple ball park number will do. I'm just trying to get a better comparison before blowing a mil on some new gear. Thanks!

Xantaria

Xantaria wrote: »

So Gilliam. Still no Twice-Born? xD

So let's compare.

You loose 5.86% Damage from not having the 5-Piece Nightmother according to you
You loose 6.28% Critical Strike Chance
You loose 1 Weapon Damage Set Bonus

You Gain 16.3% Crit from Running Thief
You Gain 1 Stamina Set Bonus
(You Gain Extra Health and Magicka)

---

You exchange:
10.02% Crit (which according to you is 9.519% damage unbuffed and 14.2284% damage fully buffed) for 5.86% Damage.
You also Exchange 1 Stamina Bonus for 1 Weapon Damage Bonus (not that big of a deal).
You also gain Health and Magicka.

How can this not be worth it in your opinion?
[snip] This will be the only and last time I'll enlighten you because we're enemies. Never forget vDSA.

But according to my calculations atleast your choice for 7 medium is correct and tbh I haven't gone through what @Asayre caculated there but with my maths it was pretty significant that 7 medium outperforms 5 1 1.

Also overthink your decision of picking Nerien'eth (600-800DPS (~2,5% of your DPS I would hope)) over 3,14% Crit and even 1 Weapon Damage Bonus on top of that. Dont Cripple yourself lol.

And remember if you do 2k dps with it in AoE 60k dps it's worth the same as if it would do 1k dps in 30k DPS situations. Don't fool yourself with wrong arguments like: 'It's totally worth it on AoE.' It's NOT. Yes the AoE CAN hit multiple targets but this just doesn't happen often enough to justify the use of it. It would have to do 1,5k+ Single Target DPS to be good.


[snip]

[Edited for flammatory commentary]

I had some really nice trolls and flames in here. Too bad they are gone.

Gilliamtherogue

Xantaria wrote: »

So Gilliam. Still no Twice-Born? xD

So let's compare.

You loose 5.86% Damage from not having the 5-Piece Nightmother according to you
You loose 6.28% Critical Strike Chance
You loose 1 Weapon Damage Set Bonus

You Gain 16.3% Crit from Running Thief
You Gain 1 Stamina Set Bonus
(You Gain Extra Health and Magicka)

---

You exchange:
10.02% Crit (which according to you is 9.519% damage unbuffed and 14.2284% damage fully buffed) for 5.86% Damage.
You also Exchange 1 Stamina Bonus for 1 Weapon Damage Bonus (not that big of a deal).
You also gain Health and Magicka.

How can this not be worth it in your opinion?
[snip] This will be the only and last time I'll enlighten you because we're enemies. Never forget vDSA.

But according to my calculations atleast your choice for 7 medium is correct and tbh I haven't gone through what @Asayre caculated there but with my maths it was pretty significant that 7 medium outperforms 5 1 1.

Also overthink your decision of picking Nerien'eth (600-800DPS (~2,5% of your DPS I would hope)) over 3,14% Crit and even 1 Weapon Damage Bonus on top of that. Dont Cripple yourself lol.

And remember if you do 2k dps with it in AoE 60k dps it's worth the same as if it would do 1k dps in 30k DPS situations. Don't fool yourself with wrong arguments like: 'It's totally worth it on AoE.' It's NOT. Yes the AoE CAN hit multiple targets but this just doesn't happen often enough to justify the use of it. It would have to do 1,5k+ Single Target DPS to be good.


[snip]

[Edited for flammatory commentary]

I've tested TBS and it was actually out preformed by Hundings. The reason is due to how critical chance works, the closer to 100% the less operational value it gets. The stamina vs weapon damage bonus is actually quite large, set bonus wise WD is about 48% stronger than stamina after amps.

129 weapon damage vs a 10% chance on hit to deal 7k (average) damage is extremely weak. Figure 129 weapon damage is equal to 179 weapon damage after adding Major/Minor Brutality and Medium armor passive. 179 WD x 1.35091 (highest scaling WD ability in my kit) is 241 TT. Figure it'd take 10 Surprise Attacks or 5 with weaves to proc 1 Nerien. So thats 2410 damage lost from not running the WD and then a gain of 7k average (I can easily crit 12k+ on this). Pretty simple to see that this 2 piece out weighs any non Undaunted set bonuses unless it were a 5 piece. Notice in my bloodspawn non buffed parse it did almost 1700 dps, which was almost 5.6% of my total damage.

It really sounds like you've never used Nerien'eths, but you don't play a stamina NB so I shouldn't be really worried about your misconceptions. As a stam DK Nerien wouldn't be all that great to Mephala's.

Gilliamtherogue

ColtPython wrote: »

Would you mind also sharing your DPS numbers for the following:

• Crematorial Guard
• The Adjudicator

I'm not really looking for screen shot parses a simple ball park number will do. I'm just trying to get a better comparison before blowing a mil on some new gear. Thanks!

Highest Crematorial Guard is 44k but that's like a 15 second parse if that with the groups I run. Highest Abjudicator is 34k, and is outdated. I need to get back in there and get some new parses after the adjustments I made with my rotation.

Cu'chulainn

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Would you still reccomend this build for someone who's only v10/v11? Also with the hundings daggers, why would they cause more damage than the maelstrom, just because the increased crit chance?

Gilliamtherogue

Cu'chulainn wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Would you still reccomend this build for someone who's only v10/v11? Also with the hundings daggers, why would they cause more damage than the maelstrom, just because the increased crit chance?

I did the break down where they're listed of how they beat Maelstrom daggers.

As v10/v11? 5 pc Hundings would be better at lower levels since NM works via percentages rather than flat boosts. Reason it's better late game is because when you're v16 you're dealing way more damage so you get more value out of that 5.86% damage.

jarrandub17_ESO

Good stuff

Mosha

Thanks for the reply! I live in Europe, that's why I have such high ping

Another question though: What skill can I take on my bow bar if I'm too much of a PvP n00b and haven't unlocked Caltrops yet?

Gilliamtherogue

Mosha wrote: »

Thanks for the reply! I live in Europe, that's why I have such high ping

Another question though: What skill can I take on my bow bar if I'm too much of a PvP n00b and haven't unlocked Caltrops yet?

Don't be discouraged by high ping, some of the best players I've known rocked a constant 200+ MS and still pulled monster numbers. It just takes time and accumulation for muscle memory to adjust.

If you don't have Caltrops unlocked the biggest thing you can do is use something like Path of Darkness. The main reason we use caltrops is not for the DPS it provide, but the fact that ground based AoE can proc Siphoning Attacks. The closest thing we have to caltrops then is Twisting Path. You'll notice a damage loss for sure, but without it you're going to have to run cost reduction jewelry which is even more of a loss. Otherwise if you don't like that or need to fill a weakness for your group you can put one of the interchangeables on your bar in its place. I'd definitely work on getting those Caltrops though, they're a really nice damage source and give you a great amount of resource management.

Shadzilla

Is nerieneth really that good? Take for instance on a single boss fight, with no adds, if someone only had light or heavy nerieneth with both pieces well fitted (for arguments sake)... Does it still outweigh a potential 4 piece ashen or hundings? Or 3 piece with 1 Kena? @Gilliamtherogue pretty sick testing if i can say so myself, as per usual.

ryanborror

Shadzilla wrote: »

Is nerieneth really that good? Take for instance on a single boss fight, with no adds, if someone only had light or heavy nerieneth with both pieces well fitted (for arguments sake)... Does it still outweigh a potential 4 piece ashen or hundings? Or 3 piece with 1 Kena? @Gilliamtherogue pretty sick testing if i can say so myself, as per usual.

I think the added dps in long fights from nerieneth would probably outweigh the crit bonuses from 4 piece hundings or ashen grip, as he already has such a high crit rate and probably the small weapon damage bonus from 3 pc ashen grip or 1 kena. But 3 ashen grip and 1 kena is two weapon damage bonuses so idk I assume he has tested it as I havent

Gilliamtherogue

Shadzilla wrote: »

Is nerieneth really that good? Take for instance on a single boss fight, with no adds, if someone only had light or heavy nerieneth with both pieces well fitted (for arguments sake)... Does it still outweigh a potential 4 piece ashen or hundings? Or 3 piece with 1 Kena? @Gilliamtherogue pretty sick testing if i can say so myself, as per usual.

All I'm trading from Nerieneth and another 2 piece active is 688 crit rating and ~1000 stamina vs 1200 health and 10% chance to deal 7k-13k damage that has a potential to AoE targets. I tried out 4 pc Ashen for the weapon damage but I really felt the loss of the Nerien proc. Nothing has come close to 2pc Nerieneth, which I'm okay with. Kena was too heavy on resources and required me to stop my rotation to keep up with 2 LA's so it was actually pretty weak for stam. If you look in my single target parse with it, it did insane damage for how short the fight was, no 2 piece is going to come close to that DPS value.

EgoRush

Are there places where you drop Nerien'eth due to boss mobility? I know with most content now it's fairly easy to stack and nuke with a decent tank, I'm just pondering for the new trial whether you have a back-up in case the Nerien'eth proc is always being missed due to a boss jumping about the place too much.

Gilliamtherogue

EgoRush wrote: »

Are there places where you drop Nerien'eth due to boss mobility? I know with most content now it's fairly easy to stack and nuke with a decent tank, I'm just pondering for the new trial whether you have a back-up in case the Nerien'eth proc is always being missed due to a boss jumping about the place too much.

You could swap out Nerieneth on fights where you don't stop moving sure, but those are so few that I usually just keep it on. Seeing that I run NM permanently there isn't much to switch to except maybe 3 piece Hundings and 1 Kena but even that would be so close I can't see it being too important. I usually am in combat the entirety of a dungeon with no down time to swap gear since I engage and trigger most mechanics in the runs I care about, but in a laid back situation where time is no pressure, sure. If Nerien procs at least 4-5 times in a minute then it will out weigh any other damage source I can think of.

Here are the coefficients for most of my kit;



3 piece hundings and 1 kena would activate 967 stamina set bonus and 129 weapon damage bonus which equates to 1162 stamina and 176 weapon damage after amps. Simply multiplying that by my coefficients gives an overall DPS value. Let's apply that to my kit on the bloodspawn and see how close I come to Nerien.

Overall those two set bonuses when applied to my kit's coefficients and multiplied by how many of those attacks I pulled off, I would have dealt an additional 31168 damage (missing a little bit for the poisoned status scaling and shooting star) but compared to the 85936 damage Lich Crystal did on that fight, there is no comparison. If you add on the missing damage you're about half of the efficiency of Lich Crystal, which means I would have only needed 5 Lich Crystals to proc in that time. 5 Lich Crystals in 1 minute with ~78 chances to proc (if you add up the amount of non dot sources + initial hits for DoTs in my parse you get that) on 10% chance per hit means I could have Nerieneth be proccing LESS than it states, and it would still beat basic stats.

@Shadzilla here's some math behind my answer for your question