LoS on heals

Tankqull

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

@FENGRUSH , good idea and sorry for putting you in the 1vX category, kinda blaming you for some of the trash threads in here was unintentional.

We are in the same boat, we go against larger groups every night we play. Nerfing BoL isn't the way to go tho so I look forward to watching a proper discussion about it if you can get the right people to talk about healing that is.

BoL is not a problem when facing larger groups, its actually only a "problem" when smaller player numbers collide.
healing 3 players for a total of 18-25k in pvp does not keep your group alive its healing springs and barrier that makes you unable to kill your enemys.

Mrs_Quietus

This thread is starting to get boring. I am not sure it has stayed on track of what it was meant to be discussing. I see people complaining about BOL in general, complaining about LOS, comparing BOL strength to DMG strength, players attacking other players' style of play....I think the devs will just look at this and create some monstrosity in an attempt to "balance" it in whatever form they can come up with....but break the game even more in the process.

To the people complaining about BOL in general, it can be done if you coordinate your attacks with forethought and strategy. In this fight for example, there were three of us against a larger group with at least 4 templars using BOL, and we were still able to wipe them. It took awhile to line up and wait for the perfect moment, and we were lucky to not get uninterrupted (this group chased us out of any keep travel lane)...but we were victorious in the end.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vdcrWB_CEkk

(Disclaimer: The stars happened to be aligned for us in this fight so I am not claiming this can be done every time, especially when fighting the many very skilled players out there. I understand that this might have been impossible had we been fighting experienced vets of PvP. Simply showing that it is POSSIBLE)

Granted, this is more difficult when there is LOS and a sneaky healer is mashing BOL over and over again somewhere behind a wall. Just think like a healer for a second, and find and eliminate it. If a healer is doing that, more than likely its because they are scared and cant handle being focused, so do just that. Last point, their hiding spot also tends to be outta the way so if they scream for assistance, it might take a second for the rest of their group to save them, a second that you can use to your advantage.

bikerangelo

It's not like Templar healers never die, they just prolong fights because they're healers. @FENGRUSH I watched your stream for a bit yesterday while you chased a group of 10 AD through the sewers by yourself. Let's be real, they were terrible and deserved to die, but you couldn't do it by yourself. Then you grabbed Essah and wiped them all. 2v10. And they had Templars everywhere spamming BoL through walls, left and right. In uneven fights, sure, BoL is stupid annoying and encourages the dps classes to be reckless. So what? Grab 2 more people and coordinate. A LoS adjustment is a nerf to the ability, more healing debuffs because of this ability will ruin every other healing ability, a cost increase, effectiveness reduction, anti-spamming tweak is a nerf to this ability. I don't see Templar gods strutting through the battlefield endlessly spamming BoL while several wrecking blow spammers and spambushers try and reduce him to half health. Anymore than 2 dps on 1 Templar will have that done in an instant. If 3 Templars on top of a tower or behind a door spamming BoL are going to rally all the dps in the game to riot against the one decent functional ability Templars have, then just get rid of the class altogether.

@blabafat Where you're coming from makes sense, any healing that can be spammed through walls is stupid easy to abuse, but last I checked it's not the only ability that can literally go through walls. If ZOS can't code gap closers to keep enemies on one side of a wall, that seriously lowers my confidence in them messing with my heals.

Idinuse

Derra wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Everyone is under the misconception that I made this post because I went into Cyrodiil and had trouble 1vXing

@Idinuse As stated by @Takllin , your argument regarding magic abilities to have magical aspects, like going through walls, doesn't make any sense. Should I be able to cast a crystal frags on someone who is on the other side of the wall because crystal fragments is magical? Should my dawnbreaker go through walls?

We are still talking fantasy here, but why not. Healing is not a projectile. It's a power or energy. Why should an object stop the flow of some sort of fantasy healing energy. I fail to see a point here, but sure. Nerf all that isn't of any offensive damage. Why not.

Oh, and incidentally, just because Fengrush has an opinion on heals, and cleary is irritated over the current TTK for him, that does not bear any weight to me. I apologize for that.

just using your example why am i unable to place a ground heal in a tower but i´m able to BoL through a door?

Because....fantasy? Programming? What do I know. What I do know is that none of the skills in this game exist in RL, so insisting on applying real life physics and logic to these fantasy skills seems a bit odd to me, that's all.

Then again we have an "Ambush" gap closer that works right up in the face of the victim over and over and over again, so I surrender to the clear logical consensus of this thread.

So then by your argument we should go with consistency as that´s the only thing applicable in a fantasy setting.

If one heal heals without los - all of the none targetted should. As should all non targetted dmg ignore los/walls. People have an issue because the game is treating similar effects differently. That´s a problem. It does not make sense.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

And why am I a 1vXer when Im fighting in a 4 man group??????

Have you not learned by now anyone not running 16+ is a ganking 1vXer that just wants to pwn n00bs with minimal effort abusing game mechanics?!

There's nothing in my post that suggest "that´s the only thing applicable", "If one...all...should" nor "As should all", no. "Doesn't need to be", yes. Opening for not necessarily applying real life physics to skills. If we should apply real life logic and physics on all skills we might as well play a modern warfare MMO. My point is that using real life physics as excuse to nerf heals is thin, nothing else implied. Heals going through doors and walls better have wheightier arguments against it than trying to apply real world physics, that's all.

The game is treating similar effects differently, that is very much a problem. As an example The DK chain can pull you up to foes very high in levitation while the Tamplar skill i.e. Explosive Charge can't pull you to someone standing a head above you. NBs "Ambush" gap closer can pull almost as high and has no limit on closest distance needed for the skill to work, Explosive Charge has. Templars have no CC lasting longer than 4 seconds others last far longer, and some are unbreakable and spammable. I for one seriously doubt that ZOS have had the intention of introducing stun locking in this game. I see your point and share your opinion on this.

Joy_Division

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

There definitely wasnt 4 players wiping those EP out - there was 4 people trying to kill a single healer with single target that stayed alive pinned on the ground.

I cut that video with the intention of posting on here for some debate... I plan to cover it on stream later though and make a video sharing my opinion a bit more overall on it. Pretty much everyone that is a healer has a very negative view on my opinion. Everyones pretty aggresive on here - but Ill get to that in the video later. I invite people to come discuss and ask questions, and hope to maybe grab a healer or two to talk about it with after I cover some of my thoughts.

But what youre saying, that a larger group was wiped by 4 players when they decided to use siege, isnt really accurate at all. They were being sieged the entire time, we just were going to put up more siege. And there was way more than 4, youll have to credit all of the other DC there - and that is what pisses me off about it all. Its a numbers game. And people are completely content with that all of a sudden. And why am I a 1vXer when Im fighting in a 4 man group??????

could you repost that vid here? i somehow missed it and a fast browse through this thread did not deliver anything.

well i do not see the problem with one healer being able to deny one dd. thats actually how it should be and it is as i am playing primarily a templar and a stamblade is extreamly resource hungry compared to dding and is not 100% sure the moment a major defile is applied to the person being attacked. it seems you are a bit salty (as i havent seen the vid referred to) for being stolen of your "sure" prey

I didnt post the video here, its just on my youtube. If I post it here there will be 30 more replies from angry healers calling me a 1vXer that wants to cruise control against the world.

I was planning to make a real video tonight of thoughts on healing overall - because this isnt a templar issue, its not a class issue, for me its an overall gameplay issue, and just my feelings on how this patch has shifted, and things I think were better, and other things that were lost from previous patches.

Why are we "angry healers" because we don't think that Wrecking blow should get it's own separate and stackable healing debuff on top of its high damage, stun, and empower? You already got some PUG knocked to the ground and now you are complaining because a healer can deprive you of an easy instant-kill. Doesn't that make you an angry DPS? What is the point of playing a healing class if I am not being disrupted in any way, if there is nothing I can do to prevent you from killing that PuG? The entire archetype of healer is bankrupt at that point.

This sort of complaining about being deprived of a kill is exactly what got the streak skill ruined. So go ahead and make that video and allow ZoS to ruin an entire fantasy archetype. When CU comes out I can only hope their designers are more impervious to the complaints of DPS specs when their opponents deprive them of kills by streaking, blocking, dodging, cloaking, healing, or whatever else ZoS has nerfed to cater to people who play damage dealers who only look to kill other players.

Valen_Byte

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

There definitely wasnt 4 players wiping those EP out - there was 4 people trying to kill a single healer with single target that stayed alive pinned on the ground.

I cut that video with the intention of posting on here for some debate... I plan to cover it on stream later though and make a video sharing my opinion a bit more overall on it. Pretty much everyone that is a healer has a very negative view on my opinion. Everyones pretty aggresive on here - but Ill get to that in the video later. I invite people to come discuss and ask questions, and hope to maybe grab a healer or two to talk about it with after I cover some of my thoughts.

But what youre saying, that a larger group was wiped by 4 players when they decided to use siege, isnt really accurate at all. They were being sieged the entire time, we just were going to put up more siege. And there was way more than 4, youll have to credit all of the other DC there - and that is what pisses me off about it all. Its a numbers game. And people are completely content with that all of a sudden. And why am I a 1vXer when Im fighting in a 4 man group??????

could you repost that vid here? i somehow missed it and a fast browse through this thread did not deliver anything.

well i do not see the problem with one healer being able to deny one dd. thats actually how it should be and it is as i am playing primarily a templar and a stamblade is extreamly resource hungry compared to dding and is not 100% sure the moment a major defile is applied to the person being attacked. it seems you are a bit salty (as i havent seen the vid referred to) for being stolen of your "sure" prey

I didnt post the video here, its just on my youtube. If I post it here there will be 30 more replies from angry healers calling me a 1vXer that wants to cruise control against the world.

I was planning to make a real video tonight of thoughts on healing overall - because this isnt a templar issue, its not a class issue, for me its an overall gameplay issue, and just my feelings on how this patch has shifted, and things I think were better, and other things that were lost from previous patches.

People just take single words, phrases, videos, and ideas and draw long conclusions from them on the forums all over the place. Some people even preface saying they dont watch my stream but then dive into all my opinions which are completely misrepresented when they stand alone. I talk about a lot of balance things - but they have be considered together. People dont talk about how I dont like how strong and cheap vigor is, they will simply say I want to kill templars because it stops me from being a hero. They say I hate 'zergs' because I want to remove AOE caps. The list goes on and on. You can check my youtube but I will post a more thorough video on thoughts. Really dont want to battle on replies until after I get my thoughts across a bit more.

For the most part, I like youtubers. I have been one myself in the past. However, big youtuber like you, who make a living off of the game, are impossible to take serious because everything you complain about, every suggestion, is completely bias.

You cry for change so you can look like a god in your videos. You cry for nerfs so you can appear to be the highest skilled player in Tamriel.

Not surprised....you are the first to cry for a nerf on something that benefits every player in the game except you lol.

L2 adapt...L2 care about the game instead of your bank account...L2 shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Takllin

Valen_Byte wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

There definitely wasnt 4 players wiping those EP out - there was 4 people trying to kill a single healer with single target that stayed alive pinned on the ground.

I cut that video with the intention of posting on here for some debate... I plan to cover it on stream later though and make a video sharing my opinion a bit more overall on it. Pretty much everyone that is a healer has a very negative view on my opinion. Everyones pretty aggresive on here - but Ill get to that in the video later. I invite people to come discuss and ask questions, and hope to maybe grab a healer or two to talk about it with after I cover some of my thoughts.

But what youre saying, that a larger group was wiped by 4 players when they decided to use siege, isnt really accurate at all. They were being sieged the entire time, we just were going to put up more siege. And there was way more than 4, youll have to credit all of the other DC there - and that is what pisses me off about it all. Its a numbers game. And people are completely content with that all of a sudden. And why am I a 1vXer when Im fighting in a 4 man group??????

could you repost that vid here? i somehow missed it and a fast browse through this thread did not deliver anything.

well i do not see the problem with one healer being able to deny one dd. thats actually how it should be and it is as i am playing primarily a templar and a stamblade is extreamly resource hungry compared to dding and is not 100% sure the moment a major defile is applied to the person being attacked. it seems you are a bit salty (as i havent seen the vid referred to) for being stolen of your "sure" prey

I didnt post the video here, its just on my youtube. If I post it here there will be 30 more replies from angry healers calling me a 1vXer that wants to cruise control against the world.

I was planning to make a real video tonight of thoughts on healing overall - because this isnt a templar issue, its not a class issue, for me its an overall gameplay issue, and just my feelings on how this patch has shifted, and things I think were better, and other things that were lost from previous patches.

People just take single words, phrases, videos, and ideas and draw long conclusions from them on the forums all over the place. Some people even preface saying they dont watch my stream but then dive into all my opinions which are completely misrepresented when they stand alone. I talk about a lot of balance things - but they have be considered together. People dont talk about how I dont like how strong and cheap vigor is, they will simply say I want to kill templars because it stops me from being a hero. They say I hate 'zergs' because I want to remove AOE caps. The list goes on and on. You can check my youtube but I will post a more thorough video on thoughts. Really dont want to battle on replies until after I get my thoughts across a bit more.

For the most part, I like youtubers. I have been one myself in the past. However, big youtuber like you, who make a living off of the game, are impossible to take serious because everything you complain about, every suggestion, is completely bias.

You cry for change so you can look like a god in your videos. You cry for nerfs so you can appear to be the highest skilled player in Tamriel.

Not surprised....you are the first to cry for a nerf on something that benefits every player in the game except you lol.

L2 adapt...L2 care about the game instead of your bank account...L2 shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Except the majority of the time he has Shuyinhail who is essentially a pocket healer/support Templar....

I get some of you don't like FENGRUSH because of his ego and the way he acts, but if you actually watch his streams and listen to what he says, he's more fair than you lead people to believe...

Hell I don't particularly like him either. I think he can be an arrogant ***, but I don't let that blind me from hearing what he has to say objectively, and deciding on my own whether or not I agree with what he has to say.

Alucardo

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Takllin

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

I mained one the majority of the time I was on DC, I'd love to see this change. I think it would require more skill of healers, and I welcome any change that requires more individual skill to excel in a game versus dumbing it down for casual/care bears.

Some of the arguments presented here are dismissive for the wrong reasons. Well this other thing is more broken, so they shouldn't bother with this. Or I think this thing is more important, I don't care about LoS heals, etc. So that somehow makes the purpose of the OP negligible?

This isn't the what's more broken Olympics, this is purely about adding an LoS check onto heals to add more skill into the game.

CatchMeTrolling

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because I don't think anyone would call him a healer, now if it was a known dedicated healer saying so it would mean more. Though that isn't the case..

Molag_Crow

As a BoL spammer myself, I have to agree. I came from WoW, and competitive healing in Arenas was heavily reliant on being in line of sight, so to just mindlessly heal through walls is pretty much pathetic, yeah.

Alucardo

Takllin wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

I mained one the majority of the time I was on DC, I'd love to see this change. I think it would require more skill of healers, and I welcome any change that requires more individual skill to excel in a game versus dumbing it down for casual/care bears.

Some of the arguments presented here are dismissive for the wrong reasons. Well this other thing is more broken, so they shouldn't bother with this. Or I think this thing is more important, I don't care about LoS heals, etc. So that somehow makes the purpose of the OP negligible?

This isn't the what's more broken Olympics, this is purely about adding an LoS check onto heals to add more skill into the game.

Exactly, and nobody wants the heal itself nerfed, just the fact you could be healing people without seeing them. You shouldn't be able to hide under a staircase spamming BoL to keep a group alive.
I've said before, but this game is becoming extremely dumbed down. It's like it's full of players bashing their keyboards with a plastic hammer while dribbling down their shirt and still winning.

WillhelmBlack

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

Alucardo

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

Ah, so the main crowd against this idea is PVE focused? OK, I can understand the complaints then. If they could separate this check and make it only happen in Cyrodiil, that would be great, and hopefully keep more people happy. This is definitely something that doesn't belong in a competitive environment like PVP.

Valen_Byte

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

and....because healing is already cut in half by the battle spirit debuff....sooooo, Idk....hasn't been a problem until fenshush started crying about it lol

Alucardo

Valen_Byte wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

and....because healing is already cut in half by the battle spirit debuff....sooooo, Idk....hasn't been a problem until fenshush started crying about it lol

People have been crying silently in game about Templar heals for a while now, myself included. We just never voiced it. I'm tired of fighting groups with invisible healers.

Valen_Byte

Alucardo wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

and....because healing is already cut in half by the battle spirit debuff....sooooo, Idk....hasn't been a problem until fenshush started crying about it lol

People have been crying silently in game about Templar heals for a while now, myself included. We just never voiced it. I'm tired of fighting groups with invisible healers.

I do it everyday man...thats what a healer does.....and you know what I do? I focus down the healers first just like any skilled player would do. This is a L2kill a healer problem not a los problem.

Sorry but in no way do I agree that healers shouldnt be able to heal.....its cut and dry....healers heal.

Cinbri

I more than sure that ZOS already made their decisions regarding future tweaks and now working on implementing them. Well, if they didn't - we won't see pts for more than 1 month than.

Takllin

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

and....because healing is already cut in half by the battle spirit debuff....sooooo, Idk....hasn't been a problem until fenshush started crying about it lol

People have been crying silently in game about Templar heals for a while now, myself included. We just never voiced it. I'm tired of fighting groups with invisible healers.

I do it everyday man...thats what a healer does.....and you know what I do? I focus down the healers first just like any skilled player would do. This is a L2kill a healer problem not a los problem.

Sorry but in no way do I agree that healers shouldnt be able to heal.....its cut and dry....healers heal.

Sorry, where is someone saying that Healers shouldn't heal?

CatchMeTrolling

I think it's silly to heal through walls , though I don't think it's unskillful more so a strategy. Obviously one people don't like, the real issue here is you're annoyed you can't see the healer in front of your face.

Even if you get your request this will just make people stack endless healing springs and purifying rituals in one area. Then we'd have another nerf request on our hands such as a healing cap.

Minno

As a Templar, I switched to Honor the Dead to bring challenging healing to my Templar. It now is only used when I'm below 75% health and if I expect my puryfing ritual to fail. I can spam it, and it will heal me to full health, but it might be wasted on a teammate not in need.

There's no reason for BOL to heal other targets when healing ritual should be the defacto group Templar heal.

Here's my rundown:

- templars possess natural "healing execute" passives. At low health, within healing circles, a Templar will always outheal Resto staff builds. This is what makes a Templar unique not BOL.
- honor the death matches the above execute design intent better than BOL. It also returns magicka pending on when/how its used (bringing regen to the build via reducing cost actively). Instant cast, but only affects one target. Brilliant restrictions that force mechanics. It's the pure healing version of healing ward.
- BOL has no restrictions. Just spray and pray mentality that confuses players on how to play the class competitively. Forces templars to ignore 80% of the Resto tree and makes them believe other skills are subpar.

If BOL gets nerfed the following should be made possible:

- honor the dead should return more magicka.
- BOL should be turned into a stamina version that acts returns stam and scales off your weapon crit/stam.
- healing ritual should receive additional healing per cast or reduced cast time.
- repentance (can't remember the actual skills name for each morph) should not give same buffs as potions. The no cost version should give more passive regen to balance with other classes.
- puryfing ritual to remain as is (including ability to purge certain single target spells)
- channeled focus to remain as is.
- healing springs to no longer provide magicka to allies. It contradicts templars being a support class that also returns stats to players (as per the class description by ZOS.)

Xsorus

Again let's look back to how DAOC handled the issue; you had group heals and spread heals in that game. Both acted fairly the same way group heals in this game worked. However in a lot of fights healers tried to use single target heals if given a choice. Why is this? Because the single target heals were extremely efficient and healed for a lot and running out of a resource was an issue in that game. So it's not that heals in this game all need LoS it's that you need better single target heals that are efficient with group hearings being less efficient. They are you emergency heals not your spam able heal.

FENGRUSH

Too many replies to reply - Ill update with a video later. Feel free to tune in tonight if youd like to submit some live feedback.

Manoekin

Alucardo wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

and....because healing is already cut in half by the battle spirit debuff....sooooo, Idk....hasn't been a problem until fenshush started crying about it lol

People have been crying silently in game about Templar heals for a while now, myself included. We just never voiced it. I'm tired of fighting groups with invisible healers.

Use a heal debuff. If you still can't kill them you weren't going to kill them if the healer was on the field or not. If the healer isn't in LOS they're not getting that heal debuff off of their ally. This is the kind of *** you make fun of new players for saying honestly. It's like complaining about predictable damage when you're not mitigating any of it... drop a nova, a veil, or block for crying out loud. I saw someone mention WoW... in WoW everyone moves the same speed and can't spam gap closers on you, so a healer can at least attempt to kite. A templar healer right now is a sitting duck. Wait, they decided to use LOS to their advantage? Quick, complain on the forums!

This *** is getting silly.

Minno

Manoekin wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

and....because healing is already cut in half by the battle spirit debuff....sooooo, Idk....hasn't been a problem until fenshush started crying about it lol

People have been crying silently in game about Templar heals for a while now, myself included. We just never voiced it. I'm tired of fighting groups with invisible healers.

Use a heal debuff. If you still can't kill them you weren't going to kill them if the healer was on the field or not. If the healer isn't in LOS they're not getting that heal debuff off of their ally. This is the kind of *** you make fun of new players for saying honestly. It's like complaining about predictable damage when you're not mitigating any of it... drop a nova, a veil, or block for crying out loud. I saw someone mention WoW... in WoW everyone moves the same speed and can't spam gap closers on you, so a healer can at least attempt to kite. A templar healer right now is a sitting duck. Wait, they decided to use LOS to their advantage? Quick, complain on the forums!

This *** is getting silly.

For those reading this here are the following skills that offer major defile:

- standard (m) [DK]
- reverberating bash [stamina]
- lethal arrow [stamina]
- claws of anguish [wearwolf]
- death stroke [NB]
- Dark flare. [Templar]

Of these only 3 are instant cast. One requires an ulti transformation. One required to target a location and is an AOE circle. One is not instant cast, a channel spell, with a high arc and hard to AC.

Of these, which shall players use to combat instant cast BOL that goes through walls/levels/floors?

Alucardo

Minno wrote: »

Of these, which shall players use to combat instant cast BOL that goes through walls/levels/floors?

I was about to reply to @Manoekin with something similar. Am I supposed to hunt down the Templar 2 stories below me while fighting off outnumbered odds just to use major defile? Come on now.

Cinbri

I suggested to add to Solar Barrage a major Defile buff, so templar dived into zerg would be a threat instead of meat.

Derra

Valen_Byte wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

There definitely wasnt 4 players wiping those EP out - there was 4 people trying to kill a single healer with single target that stayed alive pinned on the ground.

I cut that video with the intention of posting on here for some debate... I plan to cover it on stream later though and make a video sharing my opinion a bit more overall on it. Pretty much everyone that is a healer has a very negative view on my opinion. Everyones pretty aggresive on here - but Ill get to that in the video later. I invite people to come discuss and ask questions, and hope to maybe grab a healer or two to talk about it with after I cover some of my thoughts.

But what youre saying, that a larger group was wiped by 4 players when they decided to use siege, isnt really accurate at all. They were being sieged the entire time, we just were going to put up more siege. And there was way more than 4, youll have to credit all of the other DC there - and that is what pisses me off about it all. Its a numbers game. And people are completely content with that all of a sudden. And why am I a 1vXer when Im fighting in a 4 man group??????

could you repost that vid here? i somehow missed it and a fast browse through this thread did not deliver anything.

well i do not see the problem with one healer being able to deny one dd. thats actually how it should be and it is as i am playing primarily a templar and a stamblade is extreamly resource hungry compared to dding and is not 100% sure the moment a major defile is applied to the person being attacked. it seems you are a bit salty (as i havent seen the vid referred to) for being stolen of your "sure" prey

I didnt post the video here, its just on my youtube. If I post it here there will be 30 more replies from angry healers calling me a 1vXer that wants to cruise control against the world.

I was planning to make a real video tonight of thoughts on healing overall - because this isnt a templar issue, its not a class issue, for me its an overall gameplay issue, and just my feelings on how this patch has shifted, and things I think were better, and other things that were lost from previous patches.

People just take single words, phrases, videos, and ideas and draw long conclusions from them on the forums all over the place. Some people even preface saying they dont watch my stream but then dive into all my opinions which are completely misrepresented when they stand alone. I talk about a lot of balance things - but they have be considered together. People dont talk about how I dont like how strong and cheap vigor is, they will simply say I want to kill templars because it stops me from being a hero. They say I hate 'zergs' because I want to remove AOE caps. The list goes on and on. You can check my youtube but I will post a more thorough video on thoughts. Really dont want to battle on replies until after I get my thoughts across a bit more.

For the most part, I like youtubers. I have been one myself in the past. However, big youtuber like you, who make a living off of the game, are impossible to take serious because everything you complain about, every suggestion, is completely bias.

You cry for change so you can look like a god in your videos. You cry for nerfs so you can appear to be the highest skilled player in Tamriel.

Not surprised....you are the first to cry for a nerf on something that benefits every player in the game except you lol.

L2 adapt...L2 care about the game instead of your bank account...L2 shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Well i´ve never uploaded anything to youtube, never done any videos myself and i´m mostly the main healer in my grp and would be directly effected by the proposed changes.

Yet I do 100% agree with @FENGRUSH on this topic.

Being able to heal someone while at the same time being 100% safe from those attackers you´re outhealing is a bad mechanic and cheap gameplay all along.

I can honestly see no reason why you would defend it. Well i could see one - but that would make you infinetly more biased than the person you´re accusing of only promoting his personal agenda.

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I still don't understand why people see this as a nerf to Templars. I mean, a guy who mains and mastered this class wants the LoS check on BoL. That's saying something.

Because he's not a PvE healer, Aluc.

and....because healing is already cut in half by the battle spirit debuff....sooooo, Idk....hasn't been a problem until fenshush started crying about it lol

People have been crying silently in game about Templar heals for a while now, myself included. We just never voiced it. I'm tired of fighting groups with invisible healers.

I do it everyday man...thats what a healer does.....and you know what I do? I focus down the healers first just like any skilled player would do. This is a L2kill a healer problem not a los problem.

Sorry but in no way do I agree that healers shouldnt be able to heal.....its cut and dry....healers heal.

You know what a good healer does? He stays in a position where you can´t reach him (behind a wall, tree, one floor above his grp, in a tower you can´t access, behind a rock).

Also killing the healer first is what stupid people do. Always was. You have no idea about grpplay.

LazyLewis

Shelgon wrote: »

Keiryan wrote: »

No offense but this sort of sounds like a 1vXer complaining thread. Healing K-Hole or any competitive PvP group is more complicated than "standing in the back mashing one button".. like Zheg said it would require a complete over haul of the way healing is done.. not just removing LoS and calling it a day.

Although considering this is ZoS, I can see them screwing it up and doing it anyways.

so what heals do your templars use besides breath of life and rapid regen? Ritual of Rebirth? Remembrance? The morph of purge that no one uses? blood altar?

Theres a HUGE difference between a good healer and a bad healer. I use 9 Diff Abilities at least every fight. Managing resources, LoS'ing correctly and properly, being able to fend off people focusing you and calling people focusing you correctly. Using repentance correctly and in a timely way, purging when necessary (resource management) keeping blazing shield up, placing purifying down every time we stop/reposition, rotating shards in correctly and not using all my stam so I can rapid when the DPS'ers are dps'ing and we need to retreat. Its alot more than just breathe of life Shel

EDIT: Also watching 8-16 Health Bars at a time while watching my surrounds

Minno

Alucardo wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Of these, which shall players use to combat instant cast BOL that goes through walls/levels/floors?

I was about to reply to @Manoekin with something similar. Am I supposed to hunt down the Templar 2 stories below me while fighting off outnumbered odds just to use major defile? Come on now.

Not just that, it heavily favors NB and stamina builds. Those are the instant cast abilities therefore the most efficient especially with AC (a mechanic supported by ZOS and used by players heavily.)
The only skill from a magicka standpoint is dark flare, which is only available by the very same class we are asked to combat? And can be reflected?

Balance inefficiency.

Edit: standard is magicka too. But only for DK's most of whom now roll stam.