LoS on heals

blabafat

I"m not asking for TEMPLARS to be nerfed. I'm asking for unskillful play to be altered.

Mrs_Quietus

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Id love to see heals limited to groups but that will not happen. ZOS is too coddle-every-player-in-game friendly.

I personally would love to see this too.

Recremen wrote: »

I'm caught between "this is a cool, emergent strategy and it's kind of fun to go seeking out the opposing group's healers" and "this is @(*%#&$ butts why can you do this???"

I feel the same way

I run a healer/support/buff build that can hit up to 20-22k BOL crits when all buffed up...but in turn it makes me squishier, so finding a good hiding spot (behind a tree, in a bush, running around a rock) can be the difference between the group wiping or not. If I get focused by a good group and get one cc, the burst damage is almost too much for me sometimes (unless my body guards are ready to aid me). Hiding spots are also useful when fighting another bigger bomb group so as to stay out of the initial burst from the enemy, keeping your group alive at the same time.

However, I agree that standing in one spot and healing through walls is not a good indication of a skilled healer, however unfortunately effective it is. There are allot of mindless BOL spammers out there, and if anyone ever asks me for healer advise, I always try to promote other skills I use in my rotation (combat prayer for example) to try and steer them away from that and prepare themselves for another BOL nerf I foresee coming.

It is also less boring than sitting there pushing the same button over and over. I love knowing that through my other skills I can reduce damage for my group, buff their damage, and give them mobility, allowing them to just go ham leaving their well being in my hands.

As to changes to make healing require more skill...perhaps....

1. Lessen the distance in which BOL reaches.
2.At LEAST not be able to heal through walls.
3. Lessen the strength of each consecutive heal depending on how fast you spam it (reduce it by %10 if you recast with in 3 second for example).
4. And/or please please please let me be able to only heal within my group and maybe have to aim it in a direction like I do with combat prayer.

(Disclaimer: I am not a programmer so I have no idea if these calculations would contribute to lag or not, just for theory's sake)

blabafat wrote: »

I"m not asking for TEMPLARS to be nerfed. I'm asking for unskillful play to be altered.

^^^
I am also hoping to force healers to be more coordinated instead of just running around with their heads cut off, weeding out the bad ones.

Alucardo

timidobserver wrote: »

However, bare in mind that you are asking for LOS checks to be added to a skill that is spammed fairly frequently in large battles. In other words, this change would probably contribute to lag significantly.

if player->bolSpam {
    for ally in player->playersIcanActuallySee {
        ally->heal
    }
}

Sure, you add in 1 extra check to see who the healer can see, but you're healing less people which actually means less healing calculations. You use the word "probably" because you have no idea. I will probably say it'd be less server intensive, but either one of us could be wrong.
In any case, what blab is asking makes total sense and I hope it's implemented. With things like AOE caps and healers mindlessly spamming BoL hitting everyone in the area regardless of LoS, it's just another way to help out zergs.

zyk

There are different kinds of LOS checks. I think it is possible to make healing more restrictive in some scenarios--like the resource tower example--without every tree or prop getting in the way of heals.

In general, I think all AE heals should be nerfed with burst heals coming from abilities like healing ward.

I very much enjoyed the exhilarating stress of playing a Cleric in early Everquest. For those who know what I am talking about, I would like to see more of that in ESO.

timidobserver

Alucardo wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

However, bare in mind that you are asking for LOS checks to be added to a skill that is spammed fairly frequently in large battles. In other words, this change would probably contribute to lag significantly.

if player->bolSpam {
    for ally in player->playersIcanActuallySee {
        ally->heal
    }
}

Sure, you add in 1 extra check to see who the healer can see, but you're healing less people which actually means less healing calculations. You use the word "probably" because you have no idea. I will probably say it'd be less server intensive, but either one of us could be wrong.
In any case, what blab is asking makes total sense and I hope it's implemented. With things like AOE caps and healers mindlessly spamming BoL hitting everyone in the area regardless of LoS, it's just another way to help out zergs.

ZOS doesn't even really know what is causing lag. If they don't know, of course I don't know, which is why I said probably.

Anyway. The point, as I said already twice, I don't really care if they add LOS checks as long as they ensure that it doesn't add more lag.

CatchMeTrolling

This is basically a shot at breath of life....

Nerf it and Templars can just get out healed by someone with a resto, Templars should have the upper hand when it comes to healing. This is no different than someone standing there spamming healing springs endlessly , skills like breath of life is what sets Templars apart from the rest. This will encourage stacking...also this unskillful healing as you say it has saved me and countless people many times when outnumbered. Our heals are already lackluster as it is but cool

BRogueNZ

blabafat wrote: »

I"m not asking for TEMPLARS to be nerfed. I'm asking for unskillful play to be altered.

Sounds a little like it as the thread progresses, the same butt hurt about having damage out healed because making the most of your build is suddenly 'unskillful' when it suits well hello hypocrites

Of course people want to wreck their video's would be more boring than they are if they just plain failed.

blabafat

BRogueNZ wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I"m not asking for TEMPLARS to be nerfed. I'm asking for unskillful play to be altered.

Sounds a little like it as the thread progresses, the same butt hurt about having damage out healed because making the most of your build is suddenly 'unskillful' when it suits well hello hypocrites

Of course people want to wreck their video's would be more boring than they are if they just plain failed.

Yeah I was worried that it would turn out like this.

By making this post, I'm looking for the way healing works to be changed - not the way breath of life works.

I'm sure breath of life is taking a hit in the next patch, though.

Alucardo

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

This is basically a shot at breath of life....

Nerf it and Templars can just get out healed by someone with a resto, Templars should have the upper hand when it comes to healing. This is no different than someone standing there spamming healing springs endlessly , skills like breath of life is what sets Templars apart from the rest. This will encourage stacking...also this unskillful healing as you say it has saved me and countless people many times when outnumbered. Our heals are already lackluster as it is but cool

Nobody is asking to nerf Templars. The heal would still amount to the exact same, it would just mean you couldn't heal allies through walls and floors, which makes very little sense.

Mrs_Quietus

Alucardo wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

This is basically a shot at breath of life....

Nerf it and Templars can just get out healed by someone with a resto, Templars should have the upper hand when it comes to healing. This is no different than someone standing there spamming healing springs endlessly , skills like breath of life is what sets Templars apart from the rest. This will encourage stacking...also this unskillful healing as you say it has saved me and countless people many times when outnumbered. Our heals are already lackluster as it is but cool

Nobody is asking to nerf Templars. The heal would still amount to the exact same, it would just mean you couldn't heal allies through walls and floors, which makes very little sense.

As a healer, I do agree with this. I welcome the challenge and just may have to git more gud

Alucardo

Mrs_Quietus wrote: »

As a healer, I do agree with this. I welcome the challenge and just may have to git more gud

Lol glad you're on board, but I'm not having a dig at the skill of a Templar. It's just annoying when you're already overwhelmed.
As an example today at Ash. I was fighting 2 nightblades on top of the tower. One was at 15% health, and all of a sudden her health was 90% from a couple of BoLs made by a Templar below.
I was outnumbered and the Templar had no LoS but was still able to save their friends. They either had no idea they were even up there, or one called out and instead of rushing up the stairs to aid, they just stood where they were and spammed heals.
It's broken.

CatchMeTrolling

Alucardo wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

This is basically a shot at breath of life....

Nerf it and Templars can just get out healed by someone with a resto, Templars should have the upper hand when it comes to healing. This is no different than someone standing there spamming healing springs endlessly , skills like breath of life is what sets Templars apart from the rest. This will encourage stacking...also this unskillful healing as you say it has saved me and countless people many times when outnumbered. Our heals are already lackluster as it is but cool

Nobody is asking to nerf Templars. The heal would still amount to the exact same, it would just mean you couldn't heal allies through walls and floors, which makes very little sense.

Whatever you try to call it, essentially it's a nerf. And saying unskillful would sound better when you're talking about a game dealing with magic, so it would make sense actually. I don't want people healing through walls but I also don't want to have to go out of my way to heal someone when I'm outnumbered , especially in a game with no cool downs. Thats what makes breath of life so great , I can be fighting someone, see my ally is about to die and simply pop a heal. And any Templar in this thread can relate to a scenario as such even if they're for or against los, now think of how many times you probably would've died without smart healing.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

Just what we need... more *** lag causing checks.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

bikerangelo wrote: »

Honestly, as ironic as "smart healing" is, I don't see a viable way to adjust the mechanic other than to put a debuff timer on any player who receives a BoL heal. For example, a templar casts BoL, it hits a player for 8k with a cooldown of 4 seconds, similar to the debuff on Equilibrium from the Mages Guild tree. That way the skill remains unaffected, the caster can spam it all he wants, but 1 indivdual (including the caster) can only receive a BoL heal every 4 seconds. Making it LoS seems too difficult, since that'd encourage people to ball up in front of a healer as well as potentially introducing more lag. Thoughts?
Edit: it doesn't have to be 4 seconds, just a hypothetical fix.

No, the problem isn't anything to do with BOL. The problem is that this game allows every single player to eventually become a tank healer and dps all in one. WTF is a DPS doing with that kind of healing and mitigation? DPS can just stack damage, heal themselves for *** amounts while being extremely tanky. If this game was balanced, there would be a handful of healers who would be easily taken out (without competent assistance) and the group they are supporting would die. Instead everyone has strong mitigation and the ability to self heal and most of you still think BOL is the problem.

The underlying issue will always be the fact that this game is an open ended progression system allowing all players to do whatever they want without any true downside.

Here's a great example of what I am talking about. I started out healing on my Templar in full light armor with next to no stam regen. I quickly realized I didn't have enough regen to CC break properly so I started upping my stam regen. Shortly after I realized it didn't matter. The problem was the fact I was being CCed constantly and half the time my CC break would not trigger or due to lag it would take a really long time to actually break out of the CC. I decided I had to turn myself into a tank healer just to be able to play my toon. I am now literally a tank healer with CC immunity up constantly. I have 2500 magicka regen, 2k stamina regeneration and 40% mitigation with BOL that can still heal me in 2 casts. I'm not at CP cap, I don't have full V16 gold gear and I am not alliance rank 10. AKA I will get even more survivable in time. What is a healer doing being able to do this? Nobody should be able to be a tank healer. It's a total joke but that's what this game allows and because of the spam CC meta on every attack and the asinine lag, that's how I'm forced to play.

The game will be fixed if and when Zenimax wises up and introduces stances giving them the ability to make sure pure healers are the only reliable healing resource in the game. Stances allow them to address just about every core problem with this game.

Some of the core problems are:-

*Lack of applicable morphs. Stam sorcs have a handful of useful core class abilities, etc. Stances would allow the conversion of all core class morphs to be applicable to stamina or magicka.

*Tanks not being able to block cast. They can fix this easily by adding block casting to a tanking stance.

*Class abilities, particularly DK's with damage types all over the place. Stances allow the conversion of all damage types into a single damage type.

*Magicka stances being unfairly punished by high CC cost and dodge roll in PvP forcing them to stack stamina regen. CC break and cost reduction can be added to all magicka stances.

*All classes eventually becoming tank healer and DPS. Each stance is given a downside to lock them into specific roles. They will have heavy penalties to cross roles.

* ETC, ETC.

I would also love to see the CP system revised to expand on stances rather than reducing the impact of character build weaknesses which is how the present system works.

NBrookus

Mrs_Quietus wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Id love to see heals limited to groups but that will not happen.

I personally would love to see this too.

I'm a noob PvP healer, but I'd also like to see this. I want to heal the group I'm running with by priority, not random peeps running by. I'm okay with healing fellow faction members, too, but having one suck up a heal you wanted for your group leader is annoying.

There are allot of mindless BOL spammers out there, and if anyone ever asks me for healer advise, I always try to promote other skills I use in my rotation (combat prayer for example) to try and steer them away from that and prepare themselves for another BOL nerf I foresee coming.
{snip}

I am also hoping to force healers to be more coordinated instead of just running around with their heads cut off, weeding out the bad ones.

I resemble that last remark (except no BoL on the sorc), but I am not finding much solid info on when to use which skills for maximum effect. If you have ever done a write-up on your approach @Mrs_Quietus, I'd appreciate a link to it.

Mrs_Quietus

NBrookus wrote: »

Mrs_Quietus wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Id love to see heals limited to groups but that will not happen.

I personally would love to see this too.

I'm a noob PvP healer, but I'd also like to see this. I want to heal the group I'm running with by priority, not random peeps running by. I'm okay with healing fellow faction members, too, but having one suck up a heal you wanted for your group leader is annoying.

There are allot of mindless BOL spammers out there, and if anyone ever asks me for healer advise, I always try to promote other skills I use in my rotation (combat prayer for example) to try and steer them away from that and prepare themselves for another BOL nerf I foresee coming.
{snip}

I am also hoping to force healers to be more coordinated instead of just running around with their heads cut off, weeding out the bad ones.

I resemble that last remark (except no BoL on the sorc), but I am not finding much solid info on when to use which skills for maximum effect. If you have ever done a write-up on your approach @Mrs_Quietus, I'd appreciate a link to it.

I do not have a write up on how I approach supporting my group. You said you are a sorc healer? I have never really played a magic sorc (just a baby stam sorc I am messing around on) so I am not sure I can effectively or knowledgeably help you being so unfamiliar with it. I depend heavily on templar passives from class skills and skill lines, pairing them with my off bar resto staff skills. (My main bar is duel wield because ZOS logic #duelwieldhealersftw)

I do not want to get off track on this thread, however, by writing a lengthy explanation of my process and strategy as a healer. @NBrookus If you would still like me to, send me a mail in game to @Erendruda, I would happy to write one for you.

PenguinInACan

Single target heals should have to be within LoS. This should include rapid regen/BoL. Unfortunately until gap closers get fixed with LoS, changing how healing is done is only going to push us more towards the dps meta.

Personally I don't think healing is overpowered like a lot of people are saying right now. If someone can hit for 15k by pushing one button I should be able to heal that same amount by also pushing one button. That is balance. The fact that people CAN do 15k damage by pushing one button is absurd, and shouldn't be happening, but that's a different issue altogether. One person specc'd for pure damage should be able to kill someone specc'd for healing, because the resource allocation will be in favor of the dps player, but when you throw in more healers the scale SHOULD tip in favor of the healers. Once people can outpace groups of healers (2-3) solo there is an even bigger issue with game balance going on. So I don't think there is a balance issue in favor of healing. Personally I think its tipping in favor of the dps builds still, which isn't a bad thing.

Rylana

Takllin wrote: »

If we need to LoS damage, heals need to be LoS as well.

This.

Cinbri

Funny how healing problem wasn't a problem back in the past.
1.Templar were solid damage dealers, they didn't need to stack somewhere to spam BoL, despite that back in time solid build could heal from 5% hp to 100% in 1 cast and people didnt see it as OP.
2. Tankability of another classes (dk, nb) was heavily nerfed and thus made templars as pocket healers for those who can't withstand by themselves (or watch how teammates dieing). Back in time with dynamic ultimates dks could spam ult to run with full resources, could spam dragonblood that at past was equal in healing effectiveness with Honor the Dead, i.e. every dk was self-healer. NBs with their clouding swarm spam or playing sap-veil tank build were one of the tankiest class who always had escape option if something went wrong.
3. As result of all changes to battle spirit(instead of adjusting most broken dd skills) - viable option became to stack as biggest group as possible and stack as much heals as possible and be unkillable. And despite i warned about templars back on pts, zos didn't listen.

Cinbri wrote: »

With no damage skills buff and already nerfed to no-use Blazing Shield and additional Eclipse and blocking nerf, Templar's only defensive mechanic left - is spamming Rushed Ceremony button again and again and again, i.e. this change transforming Templar into pure Cleric healing class in PvP.

Current problem is not just templar problem - it is result of current pvp state.

Islyn

zyk wrote: »

There are different kinds of LOS checks. I think it is possible to make healing more restrictive in some scenarios--like the resource tower example--without every tree or prop getting in the way of heals.

from a game where your HORSE can be stuck on a pebble.

Y'all have some mighty high hopes.

Islyn

I begin to think more and more that the PVE and PVP parts of this game need to be utterly and completely separate.

So many of the things PVP folks 'suggest' are annoying if not downright damaging to the PVE aspect - it makes me feel like we'd all be better off if they were 2 separate games.

Rylana

Islyn wrote: »

I begin to think more and more that the PVE and PVP parts of this game need to be utterly and completely separate.

So many of the things PVP folks 'suggest' are annoying if not downright damaging to the PVE aspect - it makes me feel like we'd all be better off if they were 2 separate games.

Its a basic function of game design, PvE and PvP centric thinking has nothing to do with it.

If you cannot see it (line of sight) you cannot hit it.

The converse must also hold true, to balance the equation. (if your healer cannot see their target, they cannot heal them)

If not, you end up with what OP described.



Actually lets put this in a PvE centric point of view to illustrate how stupid it could become, say in a future piece of content.

Say theres this wall, the NPC final boss never goes around it. No attacks can hit a player behind that wall. So what becomes the cheese strat to beating it? Just put your healer behind that wall and have the tank stand on the corner so the DPS have a little cubby where they could also utilize LOS to avoid damage. Making any other mechanic null, since the healer cannot be threatened.

In fact this exact scenario would hold true on the first major boss of WGT if it wasnt for the cage mechanic.

Now you see the problem?

Alorier

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Lol why is everyone so fixated on nerfing Templars and their healing. Be lucky Templars don't have the same healing abilities I see in other games because smart healing would be the least of your problems and on top of that be lucky we don't have buffs to ward enemy damage for everyone.

The healing in this game is a pure joke and all this will do is promote stacking together even more. I know you can say people are mindlessly spamming heals but chances are if it's a dedicated healer they're watching the groups health bar and others constantly. In in my opinion if your job is to heal then heal all you want.

But it's no wonder no one wants to play healer or Templars, too busy trying to nerf them instead of buffing them. The best Templar skills get nerfed so it doesn't even come as a surprise anymore.

Totally agree I play a magikca templar what else am I to do with it when I PvP since all its skills are so weak , it's the reason my Dk gets played more , but what the hell just nerf every class / skill / passive and be done with thats all it ever seems on these forums

Munavar

As a ’healer” I disagree with this thread. See, your opinion is just as valid as mine. It is an opinion of a player of someone else’s game design.

From a lore perspective, line of sight is a non argument. “Share your inner light” can refer to anything. Maybe it energizes the air particles. Whatever!

This topic is really about damage builds ‘complaining’ that damage can be healed ‘as fast’ as it is dealt and that their offensive abilities heal themselves; so too bad for those not as offensively minded. 1vX (not withstanding the ‘X’ being new and/or uninformed) should not ever happen in a balanced game. A tank build should be able to withstand the damage of one player. A healer should be able to heal through that same damage. A damage dealer hitting another damage dealer should just be a race of the RNG critical value.

This is where the all mighty ‘skill’ comes into play; in seeing just what mix of arch-types it takes to beat your group (be it the group is one or many players).



The self healing added to skills in this game (as a way to break away from the gaming trinity {Tank\Damage\Healing}) is what is really being discussed here.

Personally, I would love the Vigor skill to be nerfed into oblivion. Make it a buff that while it is active would be slight personal heal based on damaged done.

In my opinion, ANY damage dealing ability should not have a healing component (and yes, this includes the Templar’s Puncturing Sweeps morph). Damage dealers and Tanks have ‘no business’ healing themselves beyond using a healing potion (a specific action to heal oneself). If you want to heal, slot a restoration staff and actually heal with an action.

Let’s see how these ‘self sustained’ damage minded people ‘love’ PvP when it’s the first person to land a critical with fights being over in 5 seconds. Maybe then they will actually appreciate people playing the healing role that keeps them in the fight instead of on the horse simulator.

Dae

Sypher

Bring back 100% heal debuffs

IxSTALKERxI

If the enemy has 5 players in total and one of them is a healer, and you are unable to kill them because of a healer, perhaps you should group up and turn it into a 3v5 instead of 1v5, or pick a different fight. The main people who have a problem with healers are people who try and fight a group of enemies solo... Honestly you wouldn't have as much of a problem if you had a group 3 and you focused targets. You could even get a healer of your own! now there's a crazy idea.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Curious for those with more experiance than I. I agree that healing can get a bit cheese worthy in keep battles/tower fights since healing through floors/walls occurs. I'm even guilty of casting 2 bol's when entering. However, the smart heal system and large heals like bol (from a templar perspective) make up for an utter lack of mobility. Limiting the strength of the heals, to me, will directly effect combat mobility.

When a high flying dps gets in and bursts my response is burst heal then move, which is a few sprint taps to any dps who notices healer danger healer danger. However, if the heal isnt that strong the burst damage will kill even before the movement gets going. A slick dps like @FENGRUSH will probably kill me before I get dps support to shoo him away because he already has a clear advantage of mobility. That burst heal, if limited, (which y'all are talking about toning down) limits my escapability even further.

Now when I go healer/support its healer/support. Just like a dps can go glass cannon. There isn't a ton of damage abilities on my bar, a variety of heals/group boosters (plus I always carry dark flare). The cp allocation, the gear, the mundus stone, the enchants are all focused on healing. Straight up 1v1, even 1v2, I dont expect to be an easy kill but a long, long kill for average to above average dps. For the elite its all about burst v burst survival. I do not expect to kill you, I do not expect to rack up kills, I am there to support my group with heals and other abilities. Tis truly the gameplay I love.

Something different, and new, would be debuffing the crit multipler. This should allow for still good enough heals to not utterly trash mobility and allow dps more of a fighting chance against fully spec'd healbots. this may be a bit to calcuation intensive but I'd rather try some innovative thoughts addressing this problem then full on reign ins.

I'd also like to throw in, if a physical cp star gets added get ready for juggernaut healers pushing the dr cap, then other mitgations, then hig magic regen, then crit multipler, then massive hots and bols.

DanTeales_Inferno

While i have to agree that BoL requries very little skill to use, using it correctly is another matter. See a meteor, a dragon leap, proxy or soul tether ? then I start spamming. When entering a tower, roll dodge though, then start spamming. These are all high dmg situations. Group healing extends far beyond BoL spamming, yes i admit this makes up the most of the work but how about repentance, blazing spear, purges, dropping purify to boost your (and allies) templar heals ? As a class that gets gimped because of its heals i fear all this talk about toning down the heals will only lead to more nerfs with nothing to compensate.

Islyn

Rylana wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

I begin to think more and more that the PVE and PVP parts of this game need to be utterly and completely separate.

So many of the things PVP folks 'suggest' are annoying if not downright damaging to the PVE aspect - it makes me feel like we'd all be better off if they were 2 separate games.

Its a basic function of game design, PvE and PvP centric thinking has nothing to do with it.

If you cannot see it (line of sight) you cannot hit it.

The converse must also hold true, to balance the equation. (if your healer cannot see their target, they cannot heal them)

If not, you end up with what OP described.



Actually lets put this in a PvE centric point of view to illustrate how stupid it could become, say in a future piece of content.

Say theres this wall, the NPC final boss never goes around it. No attacks can hit a player behind that wall. So what becomes the cheese strat to beating it? Just put your healer behind that wall and have the tank stand on the corner so the DPS have a little cubby where they could also utilize LOS to avoid damage. Making any other mechanic null, since the healer cannot be threatened.

In fact this exact scenario would hold true on the first major boss of WGT if it wasnt for the cage mechanic.

Now you see the problem?

Well actually, *It's magic* and it's called *breath* not beam or wrecking blow or whatever (Well that and I don't complain over every little thing I don't like in game.) so I really just don't care either way.

I am not saying there should not be line of sight for heals blah blah blah.

I still think both should be separate games.

Look at the rest of the templar nerfs. You gonna put all those in PVE perspective too?

Also when any thread states: I (one person) cannot kill 3x blah blah, I am just like *Oh So What? Cry me a river* to be totally honest I don't care if some tryhard cannot solo kill 3 people his same skill level. Whatever their class may be and TO BE HONEST he SHOULD NOT be able to kill 3 heavy tanky healers. lol. To think he should is biased and stupid.

Rylana

Islyn wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

I begin to think more and more that the PVE and PVP parts of this game need to be utterly and completely separate.

So many of the things PVP folks 'suggest' are annoying if not downright damaging to the PVE aspect - it makes me feel like we'd all be better off if they were 2 separate games.

Its a basic function of game design, PvE and PvP centric thinking has nothing to do with it.

If you cannot see it (line of sight) you cannot hit it.

The converse must also hold true, to balance the equation. (if your healer cannot see their target, they cannot heal them)

If not, you end up with what OP described.



Actually lets put this in a PvE centric point of view to illustrate how stupid it could become, say in a future piece of content.

Say theres this wall, the NPC final boss never goes around it. No attacks can hit a player behind that wall. So what becomes the cheese strat to beating it? Just put your healer behind that wall and have the tank stand on the corner so the DPS have a little cubby where they could also utilize LOS to avoid damage. Making any other mechanic null, since the healer cannot be threatened.

In fact this exact scenario would hold true on the first major boss of WGT if it wasnt for the cage mechanic.

Now you see the problem?

Well actually, *It's magic* and it's called *breath* not beam or wrecking blow or whatever (Well that and I don't complain over every little thing I don't like in game.) so I really just don't care either way.

I am not saying there should not be line of sight for heals blah blah blah.

I still think both should be separate games.

Look at the rest of the templar nerfs. You gonna put all those in PVE perspective too?

Also when any thread states: I (one person) cannot kill 3x blah blah, I am just like *Oh So What? Cry me a river* to be totally honest I don't care if some tryhard cannot solo kill 3 people his same skill level. Whatever their class may be and TO BE HONEST he SHOULD NOT be able to kill 3 heavy tanky healers. lol. To think he should is biased and stupid.

Not a templar nerf. it should also apply to all resto heals, sap essence, purge/cleanse, vigor, and anything else.