Was RNG the only option? (Serious question)

RAGUNAnoOne

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

RNG = grind until you get the right piece, luck is a big factor here.

Token = pure grind to get enough tokens to get the piece you want.

Im not sure why so many players want a Token system bc most people hated the trophy system that came with the IC DLC.

@Septimus_Magna The IC trophy system was hated because A: the trophies don't stack if you get them at different levels and B: it unlocks ANOTHER RNG roll of the dice to get the item(s) you want or things that are worthless to you.. a token system would let you choose what you get while the trophy chests are still 100% RNG they are not the same and will be received differently .

Drungly

Hope499 wrote: »

RNG is one of the few ways to keep a game alive.....

If you had all the gear you wanted, would you even play?

I doubt many would.

"Oh look, everyone running around with the exact same armor, cuz its so easy to get"!

If you can't get that item you want after 200+ runs, would you even play?

I doubt many would.

"Oh look, everyone running around in the armor I want, but not me because RNG"!

DanielMaxwell

Sausage wrote: »

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Mush55 wrote: »

Gets a bit of a joke after numerous Crypt of hearts runs and no helm to group up with a guild mate and he gets it on his first run.

Is that the way to keep me interested ??????????????????????????

Loot pool needs to be bigger, there needs to be more useful stuff, so even you dont find that Helmet, you find something useful anyway, to ease your frustration. CP-booster could be one, I bet one Legendary CP-booster and player is willing to forget that Helmet for that moment, or if Purple and Legendary items had more value those too, why not some items what are very valuable in Gold.

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DanielMaxwell wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

RNG was chosen because it hadnt been done in last few year, especially Western Devs dont like to do it, at least to this length. I think it was right call. So that said RNG gives nice twist to ESO, especially towards Western Players.

I dont know if you are serious, hope not.

Anyways, Z. implemented one of the worst if not the worst rng system i have seen. Its rng on so many lvls...

-get the right type of item
-right lvl item
-right trait item
... it makes getting the things you need a pain in the arse. But with crafting system designed for ESO you shouldn't expect anything else.

Getting decent quality items for your lvl should not be a problem - the rng should start with the highest quality items - but since you can upgrade those Z. was left with only choice - put rng on all lvls so that players will repeat the content over and over again. Or quit.

No, RNG was debated like half year or 1 year prior PC-launch. I think its gives nice own recognition for ESO. Why you want blend with everybody else when you can do things differently? RNG comes from the East, like China, Korea etc. Its quite unknown in the West. ESO should embrace it, imho.

I do believe the old paper and pencil games (D&D comes to mind , there are many others) would like to have a word with you about how old RNG loot systems are. The fisrt version of Neverwinter Nights that was on America On-Line used a RNG loot system , along with Ultima online , Everquest , WoW , AoC , and pretty much every MMO in the past 25 years.

As for who fist did it , that is going to be even more difficult to find out .The use of RNG to provide rewards in games is as old as the concept of games of chance . RNG is just an electronic version of games of chance.

I checked Urban Dictionary and earliest entry is from 2008 and even it is WoW, what is far from true RNG game. If it was Western term one could imagine there was way more stuff about it on Urban Dictionary. Obviously it comes from the East. My first RNG game was probably first Diablo back in the 90s.

@Sausage I really can not add much to what @stewart.leslie76b16_ESO has said . I would point out that when you said that you have played Dragonlance then you should recognize that the act of rolling a die ,or dice, is a form of Random Number Generator (a.k.a RNG) . Most of the games coming out of the east have actualy removed alot of RNG from the game mechanics with loot tables being the one area where they have left it .

Many of the old PnP games and most of the early video RPG games had some form of RNG in the combat system , crafting systems , and most player actions . You would be rolling dice to determine if you succeeded or failed at many things , like hitting your target , damage done , performing acrobatic moves in (or out of) combat , making items via crafting system , and chance to make a higher then normal quality version of that item. Personally I would like to see some of the combat system RNG comeback , but that form of RNG is not what this thread is about . This thread is about RNG in the loot system and whether or not it was the only option for ZOS.

What you said about increasing the number of items on the loot tables would reduce the chance of players getting what they want , even if ZOS did manage to place items on the tables that would be considered as valuable as the items that are currently wanted . More items means the same or lower probability of getting the highest tier items (meaning the items considered valuable by the player base ) , which leaves players back at square one . Because ZOS needs players going to the cash shop , they are unlikely to add cosmetic items to the loot tables , and adding high gold value items would disrupt the in-game economy by increasing the inflation rate in the game.

comments might be a bit meandering , but hopefully the points are clear .

RNG as a mechanic in games is as old as games of chance , RNG as a term is a more recent development .

MikeB

ESO uses the same RNG methods as all those horrible mobile games. Its essentially a virtual slot machine and the house always wins.

Eejit1331

Every boss should drop at least one item to at least one group member. To go through WGT and see zero drops is very deflating.

PainfulFAFA

Took me 80+ runs to finally get Spell Power Cure.
Worst experience ever. The grind was real.

Now i need Sheer Venoms and Combat Physician wonder how many runs that *** will take me....

*** RNG

Septimus_Magna

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

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Septimus_Magna wrote: »

RNG = grind until you get the right piece, luck is a big factor here.

Token = pure grind to get enough tokens to get the piece you want.

Im not sure why so many players want a Token system bc most people hated the trophy system that came with the IC DLC.

@Septimus_Magna The IC trophy system was hated because A: the trophies don't stack if you get them at different levels and B: it unlocks ANOTHER RNG roll of the dice to get the item(s) you want or things that are worthless to you.. a token system would let you choose what you get while the trophy chests are still 100% RNG they are not the same and will be received differently .

You do get a specific set (Endurance/Willpower/Agility) and the trophies are relative easy to farm but I agree the RNG after that is terrible. Also the sets are BoE (one of the last) so you can sell/trade them for other pieces.

If you would compare that to a Token system with gold keys for example, you would be limited to 1 token a day (2 with WGT and ICP) because you cant bank gold keys. Getting what you want would most likely take several week, if not months.

LorDrek

RNG haha 250+ undaunted chests, any lord warden palaundros any kena divines, wgt 120+ runs any helm kena with infused or divines LOL

RAGUNAnoOne

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

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RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

RNG = grind until you get the right piece, luck is a big factor here.

Token = pure grind to get enough tokens to get the piece you want.

Im not sure why so many players want a Token system bc most people hated the trophy system that came with the IC DLC.

@Septimus_Magna The IC trophy system was hated because A: the trophies don't stack if you get them at different levels and B: it unlocks ANOTHER RNG roll of the dice to get the item(s) you want or things that are worthless to you.. a token system would let you choose what you get while the trophy chests are still 100% RNG they are not the same and will be received differently .

You do get a specific set (Endurance/Willpower/Agility) and the trophies are relative easy to farm but I agree the RNG after that is terrible. Also the sets are BoE (one of the last) so you can sell/trade them for other pieces.

If you would compare that to a Token system with gold keys for example, you would be limited to 1 token a day (2 with WGT and ICP) because you cant bank gold keys. Getting what you want would most likely take several week, if not months.

Well at least you can eventually have a 100% chance to get what you want. also some people try for months religiously to get something and still never get what they want. statistics say there is a chance for someone to literally never ever find one no matter how many times they try it will literally be locked to them because of pure RNG and BOP...

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

Token system + rng is the best way to go. RNG gives a chance to get the item. Tokens are always rewarded regardless so you can eventually get what you want in a reasonable timeframe.

LegendsNeverDie

No and even 10 years ago RNG wasn't the only solution, they just want to artificially inflate their content.

To do it they put RNG within RNG within even more RNG. First you need it to drop then you need hope it's drops in the right armor type. Then you pray you don't get a completely garbage trait like well fitted on that piece.

I know people that haven't even gotten it to drop yet despite running it over 50+ times. God forbid they actually want to get it in the right armor or even crafted trait as the odds are so ridiculous stacked against them.

tangy.citrus

If vma was a token system, not many players would still be doing things like vma anymore. Content would be super old, pvp would be even more laggy because the vma players would go there next for stuff to do. RNG can get out of hand, but it can be really nice sometimes. But, after you've done vma for the 5th time in a day and you're about to be done with it for awhile, you get the weapon you wanted in the trait you wanted. It makes you feel like all the work you put into it paid off. It can get really grindy, but the more the grind the better the pay off.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Token system + rng is the best way to go. RNG gives a chance to get the item. Tokens are always rewarded regardless so you can eventually get what you want in a reasonable timeframe.

DDO had an interesting way, after each quest/raid you had a loot table to choose an item from, could be absolutely anything from trash to named items. But after a certain number of cash in (some quests had something like 3 cash ins, where as raids it was 20), you had an advanced loot table where it was mainly named items.

So... How about say after 50 pledges handed in, you get a totally different key or token, that when activated it brings up a box where you can either pick a named item which has random traits, or you can change a trait or style of an item you already own.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

tangy.citrus wrote: »

If vma was a token system, not many players would still be doing things like vma anymore. Content would be super old, pvp would be even more laggy because the vma players would go there next for stuff to do. RNG can get out of hand, but it can be really nice sometimes. But, after you've done vma for the 5th time in a day and you're about to be done with it for awhile, you get the weapon you wanted in the trait you wanted. It makes you feel like all the work you put into it paid off. It can get really grindy, but the more the grind the better the pay off.

I'm going to disagree with you on this on so many levels.

We've already got groups of people that will only play certain content and avoid all others at all costs. What makes you think VMA is any different?

If content is well designed, fun to do, then people will do it for, well, you know, fun.

As for the grind, really? I mean, REALLY!? I come here to play the game and have fun, I didn't come here to repeat the same process over and over and over and over again.