What will be the next FoTM skill for PvP

OdinForge

Gonna go with carve or any cone AoE, I wouldn't be surprised if they over-buff cones by mistake or bug like Axes.

blabafat

Agree with @Nifty2g here. Radial sweep is way too OP

Zheg

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

I'll make a prediction here. The new group tactic will be caltrops, bombard, and close range siege. Well defended inner keeps will become nigh impossible to capture unless one has overwhelming numbers. Magicka NB's fear spamming and streaking magicka sorcs will become more necessary than ever, since they can stop groups with retreating maneuvers from outflanking your siege. The star player in large scale PvP will be siege, with groups organizing themselves to outmaneuver siege and bring their own siege to bear.

Because of how difficult inner keep defenses will become, since defenders can monopolize siege placement, primetime will become even more of a slog than it is now. The defenders already use meatbags and oil pots, combined with well-timed bombs, to have significant advantages over the attackers. Siege becoming stronger and gaining unpurgable secondary effects means the advantage goes to the defender two fold. Map control will become about who can capture most of the map earliest (i.e. nightcapping or day capping undefended keeps) and stack their faction to defend the most strategic keeps.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, please reconsider the change to siege if it is not too late. We want to use our abilities in PvP, not point and click siege turrets. I understand large, balled up groups hurt server performance. Please give groups ways to fight those balls that involve using our skills, not placing something and clicking it.

It's going to end up playing out like almost all of ZOS's changes - they do something stupid or bugged and then fix it 6 months later. We're going to have a dumb siege meta for at least a few months, I'm not optimistic additional feedback or warnings at this point are going to change his mind. He's already bent on the meatbag feedback it looks like, but nadda on oil catapults, and honestly everyone is going to end up running pretty much just those once they realize how OP they will be compared to everything else.

It's not going to be a dumb siege meta. It is going to be the era where large groups finally have a counter to balling up. About god freaking time.

And stop assuming that the siege changes are already confirmed and going live. The siege changes were proposed and are going to go into PTS for a few months before going live. In the meantime, Brian Wheeler started a thread to hear different opinions and will adjust accordingly.

You're entitled to what you find fun, as am I. My siege meta grumbles have nothing to do with 'ball groups' and everything to do with me finding point and click to be incredibly boring for pvp. I spent 2 weeks over the holidays playing solo to theorycraft and hone a tanky build to make use of the incoming OP siege changes. I may even adopt that build for group play if the incoming changes aren't softened and end up being as strong as I think they will be. Our group will still be in TS having fun, still kill you, and if the meta makes any kind of proximity impossible, we'll adapt and just spread out and carpet bomb keeps with siege - solo players and small groups won't find that any more fun, whether or not you have the foresight to realize that. The ping will still suck, because it's derived from total players in a location, not a 'ball', regardless of the false information people like to parrot on the forums. There are plenty of other ways to counter groups they could implement, siege is one of the worst imo, and in many other players' opinions. If people actually pushed a well defended keep with a single raid once in a while, they too would realize that enemy siege already hurts and makes fights extremely difficult when counter siege is well placed. But, that doesn't fit the narrative being pushed, so now we have OP siege changes.

Yes, Brian has been more vocal and flexible than wrobel, but there was significant feedback provided on the initial oil catapult numbers and his only response was to hint at agreeing with the feedback for meatbags being too strong. Therefore, I'm not optimistic given ZOS' track record of speedy adaptation to bad/broken mechanics. Most players in that siege thread don't seem to grasp how powerful 5k stamina per hit without a cooldown is for something as rapid fire as a single catapult (much quicker than a treb). But, this thread doesn't need to mirror the siege change discussion thread, I've thoroughly said my peace in there already.

The meta will very much end up being siege wars, it will very much end up making keep assaults silly if there's actual defense, and therefore will end up favoring whoever can nightcap and start primetime with more keeps. Sounds dumb to me.

Akinos

Evasion and it's morphs....oh wait it's already fotm!

PosternHouse

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

I'll make a prediction here. The new group tactic will be caltrops, bombard, and close range siege. Well defended inner keeps will become nigh impossible to capture unless one has overwhelming numbers. Magicka NB's fear spamming and streaking magicka sorcs will become more necessary than ever, since they can stop groups with retreating maneuvers from outflanking your siege. The star player in large scale PvP will be siege, with groups organizing themselves to outmaneuver siege and bring their own siege to bear.

Because of how difficult inner keep defenses will become, since defenders can monopolize siege placement, primetime will become even more of a slog than it is now. The defenders already use meatbags and oil pots, combined with well-timed bombs, to have significant advantages over the attackers. Siege becoming stronger and gaining unpurgable secondary effects means the advantage goes to the defender two fold. Map control will become about who can capture most of the map earliest (i.e. nightcapping or day capping undefended keeps) and stack their faction to defend the most strategic keeps.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, please reconsider the change to siege if it is not too late. We want to use our abilities in PvP, not point and click siege turrets. I understand large, balled up groups hurt server performance. Please give groups ways to fight those balls that involve using our skills, not placing something and clicking it.

It's going to end up playing out like almost all of ZOS's changes - they do something stupid or bugged and then fix it 6 months later. We're going to have a dumb siege meta for at least a few months, I'm not optimistic additional feedback or warnings at this point are going to change his mind. He's already bent on the meatbag feedback it looks like, but nadda on oil catapults, and honestly everyone is going to end up running pretty much just those once they realize how OP they will be compared to everything else.

It's not going to be a dumb siege meta. It is going to be the era where large groups finally have a counter to balling up. About god freaking time.

And stop assuming that the siege changes are already confirmed and going live. The siege changes were proposed and are going to go into PTS for a few months before going live. In the meantime, Brian Wheeler started a thread to hear different opinions and will adjust accordingly.

If the siege changes go through it will be a "dumb siege meta". And what groups can afford to have players break off to siege? Large groups. If a group of twelve loses one player in their stack for them to siege, they're losing someone that, pound for pound, was much more important to the group than a single player in a group of twenty four. Ball groups will spread out a bit. And you'll still get overwhelmed with massive numbers.

KenaPKK

I can't quote on my phone, but @Zheg, you made really good points two posts up.

frozywozy

PosternHouse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

I'll make a prediction here. The new group tactic will be caltrops, bombard, and close range siege. Well defended inner keeps will become nigh impossible to capture unless one has overwhelming numbers. Magicka NB's fear spamming and streaking magicka sorcs will become more necessary than ever, since they can stop groups with retreating maneuvers from outflanking your siege. The star player in large scale PvP will be siege, with groups organizing themselves to outmaneuver siege and bring their own siege to bear.

Because of how difficult inner keep defenses will become, since defenders can monopolize siege placement, primetime will become even more of a slog than it is now. The defenders already use meatbags and oil pots, combined with well-timed bombs, to have significant advantages over the attackers. Siege becoming stronger and gaining unpurgable secondary effects means the advantage goes to the defender two fold. Map control will become about who can capture most of the map earliest (i.e. nightcapping or day capping undefended keeps) and stack their faction to defend the most strategic keeps.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, please reconsider the change to siege if it is not too late. We want to use our abilities in PvP, not point and click siege turrets. I understand large, balled up groups hurt server performance. Please give groups ways to fight those balls that involve using our skills, not placing something and clicking it.

It's going to end up playing out like almost all of ZOS's changes - they do something stupid or bugged and then fix it 6 months later. We're going to have a dumb siege meta for at least a few months, I'm not optimistic additional feedback or warnings at this point are going to change his mind. He's already bent on the meatbag feedback it looks like, but nadda on oil catapults, and honestly everyone is going to end up running pretty much just those once they realize how OP they will be compared to everything else.

It's not going to be a dumb siege meta. It is going to be the era where large groups finally have a counter to balling up. About god freaking time.

And stop assuming that the siege changes are already confirmed and going live. The siege changes were proposed and are going to go into PTS for a few months before going live. In the meantime, Brian Wheeler started a thread to hear different opinions and will adjust accordingly.

If the siege changes go through it will be a "dumb siege meta". And what groups can afford to have players break off to siege? Large groups. If a group of twelve loses one player in their stack for them to siege, they're losing someone that, pound for pound, was much more important to the group than a single player in a group of twenty four. Ball groups will spread out a bit. And you'll still get overwhelmed with massive numbers.

I have answered this argument thousand of times. Not going to do it again because this thread has nothing to do with siege mechanics.

Xiphyla

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

I'll make a prediction here. The new group tactic will be caltrops, bombard, and close range siege. Well defended inner keeps will become nigh impossible to capture unless one has overwhelming numbers. Magicka NB's fear spamming and streaking magicka sorcs will become more necessary than ever, since they can stop groups with retreating maneuvers from outflanking your siege. The star player in large scale PvP will be siege, with groups organizing themselves to outmaneuver siege and bring their own siege to bear.

Because of how difficult inner keep defenses will become, since defenders can monopolize siege placement, primetime will become even more of a slog than it is now. The defenders already use meatbags and oil pots, combined with well-timed bombs, to have significant advantages over the attackers. Siege becoming stronger and gaining unpurgable secondary effects means the advantage goes to the defender two fold. Map control will become about who can capture most of the map earliest (i.e. nightcapping or day capping undefended keeps) and stack their faction to defend the most strategic keeps.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, please reconsider the change to siege if it is not too late. We want to use our abilities in PvP, not point and click siege turrets. I understand large, balled up groups hurt server performance. Please give groups ways to fight those balls that involve using our skills, not placing something and clicking it.

It's going to end up playing out like almost all of ZOS's changes - they do something stupid or bugged and then fix it 6 months later. We're going to have a dumb siege meta for at least a few months, I'm not optimistic additional feedback or warnings at this point are going to change his mind. He's already bent on the meatbag feedback it looks like, but nadda on oil catapults, and honestly everyone is going to end up running pretty much just those once they realize how OP they will be compared to everything else.

It's not going to be a dumb siege meta. It is going to be the era where large groups finally have a counter to balling up. About god freaking time.

And stop assuming that the siege changes are already confirmed and going live. The siege changes were proposed and are going to go into PTS for a few months before going live. In the meantime, Brian Wheeler started a thread to hear different opinions and will adjust accordingly.

I seriously had a good laugh at that part. But whatever man , the pvp dev dont even know what they are doing anyway. They are totally clueless.

Satiar

Meta will be Stam. Cuz lol catapults.

I'll have to break out my 50k Stam build again

timidobserver

I can see them making wall of elements absurdly OP.

Ezareth

Haven't read the thread but I'm guessing Siege spam online is incoming until people figure out how to counter it.

Pchela

Elder Siege online, inevitable det spammed on two enemy groups fighting, and caltrops. More mutagen.

Wollust

Bombard is already quite in use (and super annoying), so I guess it will be even more spammed after the steel tornado nerf.

Oh, and magicka DK even more rekt with siege change and stuff