There are multiple play styles in the game, why is that so hard to understand?

Crown

There are many people who play the game, which was touted as allowing you to play in the way that you want to play. Many (most) are not optimal, and many may not fit with how you want to play, but if the people playing have fun then how is it your responsibility to crap all over the people playing how they want to? The number of times I see or hear of players who can't take the fact that they died and demand duels or "1v1 me bro" is astounding.

I myself have four sets of gear that I use for different conditions or play styles in PvP; Solo/duo ganking gear, solo/duo AP farming gear, group leading gear, and group following gear. When I get enough mats I might make another set for duelling - though that's not something I do often enough to really warrant spending the mats.

I'm going to list the types that come to mind and give a brief comment on them. I'm sure there will be more types listed and both intelligent and trollish comments by others later on. The purpose of this post is to point out that there's a place for (almost) everyone in the game.

Solo players who gank: Choosing who to gank (what target you're most likely to kill) and how to egress (get away) can be challenging at times. Sitting stealthed with a 1-shot FotM build on a run-back-to-the-keep-being-sieged line can also be very annoying to your targets. AP gains can be good, though very rarely great.

Solo players who 1 v Potato: This is "AP farming for dummies". Find players who are not as good as you, and kill them easily / quickly. There's some good AP to make here, though the major benefit is making awesome solo videos that promote your own awesomeness so as to collect more fan boys.

Solo players who 1 v X: Unlike fighting potatoes, solo players who fight two (or more) others who are at or around their skill level are in for a really good - and probably long fight. They won't make much AP as this falls into the duelling category, though my hat gets tipped to them.

Solo players who farm AP: Note that this is VERY different from the three above. Farming AP is a skill that is NOT the same thing as 1 v multiples (of any type). Farming AP is all about strategy. Knowing where to make the most AP, and how to make the most AP. Executing once you've finalized your strategy is rather simple. It still takes skill to execute, though the primary requirement for the AP farmer is dynamic thinking and applying knowledge / theory to situations in order to identify what to do in order to make the most AP.

Note that the builds and skills used will almost certainly be different for each of the above.

Small groups (arbitrarily going to say up to 8 people): For many of the longer term players, executing and winning fights with small groups is a lot more fun than in larger groups as it takes more skill and is more of a challenge. With AoE caps as they are, small groups just aren't able to take on full (or multiple) groups. Hopefully AoE caps change (are removed) soon so that those of us who prefer the style can go back to playing like that.

Medium groups (usually 12 to 16 people): Until recently (AoE cap introduced), the value in a 12-16 person group was AP farming efficiency as beyond 16 players AP is divided among too many people. With the new AP changes proposed for the Q1 2016 patch, I expect that medium groups will make a comeback.

Full groups of 24: Some people enjoy running in large groups, and with AoE caps as they are it has become a necessity in order to reduce incoming damage. The social aspect of a large group of friends in TS running around doing things together is a lot of fun. It's not very good for AP gains, though the fun of talking with and playing with all the people you've known and been playing with for many years can't be beat at times.

Multiple medium or full groups: Right now, the state of the game is such that running multiple large groups directly contributes to lag. This is the primary reason not to do so. There are VERY few groups and leaders who will purposefully do so, though it often happens that multiple groups end up in the same place due to it being a good strategic place to be (for AP or for map control).

Hydrocodone

We understand you have a 1 track mind. L2P lagmaster! You and people like you ruin the game for the rest!

RinaldoGandolphi

With all due respect, I often think @Crown takes far too much criticism and misguided vitrol placed in his direction for things that are really outside of his control.

The way the game is right now, to win, to do anything is to run with a large group...there is simply no other way to play right now. Crown could run with 6-8 guys, and then get run over by the 40-50+ DC/EP groups out there, or he can make a larger group of his own to compete...what is he supposed to to? just get pain trained over and over again?

Every single group of more then 14 people is directly responsible for the lag in Cyrodiil...I don't know how much plainer i can put it However this is NOT the players fault, its a by product of the current game and the fact that no one can control anyone so if one faction makes a large group, then the other factions will do the same as its the only way to compete, and then were stuck with red ping and lag.

Ultimately its up to ZOS to get this fixed, in the meantime we need to stop pointing fingers at players and start pointing them where they belong which is the developer that made the game.

Personally, after the red ping lag affair of last night, i think im just gonna focus my efforts on farming more mats, gold, etc and completing the Vet Area and getting some of the 4 man delve trophies im missing, because playing in Cyrodiil right now with the way the game currently is...its just pointless.....You can't even reliably weapon swap half the time anymore......its just a shame....

The bottom line is, until ZOS fixes the game, what guys like Crown, Meth, even Daniel do are really the only way to play this game if you actually want to win, or farm AP, or whatever you feel like doing. its not a style I myself prefer, but im not one to judge. As far as i know, everyone has a right to play the game the way they see fit and these guys are doing nothing wrong.

The PVP part of this game had so much potential, then whatever they done in lighting update and then added on top of it in 1.6 really just drug stuff down the drain...i think the Champion System has added an immense amount of unneeded server calculations on a system that wasn't really able to handle it after the lighting update and the CS just made it worse...again just my opinion...all those damage reductions in the Cs are more calulations, more calculations = more lag...its easy to see i think.

Regardless, Crown, Meth, Daniel, and anyone else who runs groups large or small in Cyrodiil, Happy Holidays, and i think its unfair you folks take flack for playing the game as intended, when all the issues should be directed at the developer, this game used to support all styles of play from small to large groups until 1.6 and the lag, its not you guys and gals fault the game lags because your playing the way you want. Just my 2 cents.

blabafat

I agree with the different types of players you listed there

I also think it's not appropriate to bash someone for playing the way he/she wants to play

Not saying I haven't done it. When I get outnumbered by a full raid, do I say out loud "zergers" ? Yes, of course.

But I don't whisper hate messages and talk trash etc. It's fine if people wanna run in large groups or if they don't. I just don't like it when large groups complain about lag or zerging. That's the most hypocritical thing I have ever seen in this game.

Minno

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

With all due respect, I often think @Crown takes far too much criticism and misguided vitrol placed in his direction for things that are really outside of his control.

The way the game is right now, to win, to do anything is to run with a large group...there is simply no other way to play right now. Crown could run with 6-8 guys, and then get run over by the 40-50+ DC/EP groups out there, or he can make a larger group of his own to compete...what is he supposed to to? just get pain trained over and over again?

Every single group of more then 14 people is directly responsible for the lag in Cyrodiil...I don't know how much plainer i can put it However this is NOT the players fault, its a by product of the current game and the fact that no one can control anyone so if one faction makes a large group, then the other factions will do the same as its the only way to compete, and then were stuck with red ping and lag.

Ultimately its up to ZOS to get this fixed, in the meantime we need to stop pointing fingers at players and start pointing them where they belong which is the developer that made the game.

Personally, after the red ping lag affair of last night, i think im just gonna focus my efforts on farming more mats, gold, etc and completing the Vet Area and getting some of the 4 man delve trophies im missing, because playing in Cyrodiil right now with the way the game currently is...its just pointless.....You can't even reliably weapon swap half the time anymore......its just a shame....

The bottom line is, until ZOS fixes the game, what guys like Crown, Meth, even Daniel do are really the only way to play this game if you actually want to win, or farm AP, or whatever you feel like doing. its not a style I myself prefer, but im not one to judge. As far as i know, everyone has a right to play the game the way they see fit and these guys are doing nothing wrong.

The PVP part of this game had so much potential, then whatever they done in lighting update and then added on top of it in 1.6 really just drug stuff down the drain...i think the Champion System has added an immense amount of unneeded server calculations on a system that wasn't really able to handle it after the lighting update and the CS just made it worse...again just my opinion...all those damage reductions in the Cs are more calulations, more calculations = more lag...its easy to see i think.

Regardless, Crown, Meth, Daniel, and anyone else who runs groups large or small in Cyrodiil, Happy Holidays, and i think its unfair you folks take flack for playing the game as intended, when all the issues should be directed at the developer, this game used to support all styles of play from small to large groups until 1.6 and the lag, its not you guys and gals fault the game lags because your playing the way you want. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed. And if anyone has trouble learning the basics for the current style of play for successful group pvp, @Crown has a fantastic website link to an in-depth introduction into Cyro group pvp. Take a read! (It's in his signature.)

Minno

Crown wrote: »

There are many people who play the game, which was touted as allowing you to play in the way that you want to play. Many (most) are not optimal, and many may not fit with how you want to play, but if the people playing have fun then how is it your responsibility to crap all over the people playing how they want to? The number of times I see or hear of players who can't take the fact that they died and demand duels or "1v1 me bro" is astounding.

I myself have four sets of gear that I use for different conditions or play styles in PvP; Solo/duo ganking gear, solo/duo AP farming gear, group leading gear, and group following gear. When I get enough mats I might make another set for duelling - though that's not something I do often enough to really warrant spending the mats.

I'm going to list the types that come to mind and give a brief comment on them. I'm sure there will be more types listed and both intelligent and trollish comments by others later on. The purpose of this post is to point out that there's a place for (almost) everyone in the game.

Solo players who gank: Choosing who to gank (what target you're most likely to kill) and how to egress (get away) can be challenging at times. Sitting stealthed with a 1-shot FotM build on a run-back-to-the-keep-being-sieged line can also be very annoying to your targets. AP gains can be good, though very rarely great.

Solo players who 1 v Potato: This is "AP farming for dummies". Find players who are not as good as you, and kill them easily / quickly. There's some good AP to make here, though the major benefit is making awesome solo videos that promote your own awesomeness so as to collect more fan boys.

Solo players who 1 v X: Unlike fighting potatoes, solo players who fight two (or more) others who are at or around their skill level are in for a really good - and probably long fight. They won't make much AP as this falls into the duelling category, though my hat gets tipped to them.

Solo players who farm AP: Note that this is VERY different from the three above. Farming AP is a skill that is NOT the same thing as 1 v multiples (of any type). Farming AP is all about strategy. Knowing where to make the most AP, and how to make the most AP. Executing once you've finalized your strategy is rather simple. It still takes skill to execute, though the primary requirement for the AP farmer is dynamic thinking and applying knowledge / theory to situations in order to identify what to do in order to make the most AP.

Note that the builds and skills used will almost certainly be different for each of the above.

Small groups (arbitrarily going to say up to 8 people): For many of the longer term players, executing and winning fights with small groups is a lot more fun than in larger groups as it takes more skill and is more of a challenge. With AoE caps as they are, small groups just aren't able to take on full (or multiple) groups. Hopefully AoE caps change (are removed) soon so that those of us who prefer the style can go back to playing like that.

Medium groups (usually 12 to 16 people): Until recently (AoE cap introduced), the value in a 12-16 person group was AP farming efficiency as beyond 16 players AP is divided among too many people. With the new AP changes proposed for the Q1 2016 patch, I expect that medium groups will make a comeback.

Full groups of 24: Some people enjoy running in large groups, and with AoE caps as they are it has become a necessity in order to reduce incoming damage. The social aspect of a large group of friends in TS running around doing things together is a lot of fun. It's not very good for AP gains, though the fun of talking with and playing with all the people you've known and been playing with for many years can't be beat at times.

Multiple medium or full groups: Right now, the state of the game is such that running multiple large groups directly contributes to lag. This is the primary reason not to do so. There are VERY few groups and leaders who will purposefully do so, though it often happens that multiple groups end up in the same place due to it being a good strategic place to be (for AP or for map control).

We forget that there are also PVE'ers in this too.
They are the ones that don't fight back, in delves/IC/towns, that are trying to enjoy cyro's solo content. We, pvpers, consider them undesirables, but they still make up a certain portion of cyro pop (less than 1%)

Turtl3Lov3

Crown wrote: »

Solo players who 1 v Potato: This is "AP farming for dummies". Find players who are not as good as you, and kill them easily / quickly. There's some good AP to make here, though the major benefit is making awesome solo videos that promote your own awesomeness so as to collect more fan boys.

TheBull

#NerfPurge

Takes-No-Prisoner

Crown wrote: »

[large paragraph]

I do not considering myself in any of these categories. I consider myself the wandering solo'er who RP's like its Dark Souls. Cyrodiil is my purgatory, and I wander the endless battlefield as a vestige of the undead, seeking glory in a lawless and unforgiving land. Forever locked into listening to her sirens call to battle, unable to escape. To me--it was never about winning the fight, but looking forward to... and planning to survive the next one. Sometimes alone, other times surrounded like others who share the same fate as me.

Crown

@Takes-No-Prisoner I had forgotten you and your brethren. You - and they are indeed a welcome addition to the list, for without you all there would be much less enjoying of lore, stories, and the living of life between the times of endless killing and destruction.

Joy_Division

I think you and many others in general overestimate AP.

I have 18 million AP on characters who are beyond the alliance rank that I'll ever get anything from them. I don't even know why I stay for defensive ticks anymore.

I understand lower level alts want to get prox det and combat frenzy, but I log in to crush my enemies and see them driven before me. As long as you have AoE caps, full raids are going to do that and those who get Rekt will still insist on sending tells that comment - and exaggerate - how many people were in the other group.

Stikato

When posting about people not understanding there are different playstyles, your point would be more effective if you didn't insult the playstyles you yourself don't like.

frozywozy

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Every single group of more then 14 people is directly responsible for the lag in Cyrodiil...I don't know how much plainer i can put it However this is NOT the players fault, its a by product of the current game and the fact that no one can control anyone so if one faction makes a large group, then the other factions will do the same as its the only way to compete, and then were stuck with red ping and lag.

If a faction zerg, the reasoning should be to coordinate with guilds of your faction to hit multiple targets at the same time and force them to spread out. In any scenario, they will most likely fail miserably at scouting and you will capture an objective. This will be beneficial for your faction and will help server performances. When forward camps will be reintroduced, I believe that factions who promote zerging and stacking more than a full raid will get outplayed all the time.

P.S. @Crown - You should rename the solo ganker role to Xv1 lowbie on horse. We both know that gankers are never by themselves and will prioritize targets lower levels on their horses first. Their ultimate goal is to kill their target before he can dismount to kill the horse in the meantime and wait patiently for the mad whispers to come in so they can troll back.

Jura23

Still not sure what's the point despite of the fact that you tried to explain it. If this is reaction to some whispers, it probably won't solve anything.

SkylarkAU

Good summation crown but you forgot my current personal favourite play style, 1vZerg. The old dive, survive, outwit & outplay the hive - get my jive?

BigTone

This is a very inclusive post. I honestly enjoy many of the play styles you listed above. I play solo, I gank siege lines with a one shot build, I do small groups (2-4), and I also run in full raid groups. All four of the ones I listed are a different play style, and I have different skill bars set up for each one. I actually have the skill bars saved as "Zerg dw" and "Zerg 2h".

For me, it comes down to the fact that when I zerg a group down spamming steel tornado with barriers on rotation it is no where near as satisfying as wiping a group of 10 with my group of four. I've seen Moji running in these type of groups lately, and damn when they take a resource they make themselves at home. There's some high quality players in that group.

I enjoy many different types of play styles in this game, and I'm happy I can switch it up whenever I want. But when my small man gets trampled by a group of 24+ players, best believe I'm calling them a bunch of zergbads in my ts.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

You forgot to mention Xv1 players, so lovely in the current meta^^

zyk

There are many solo/duo/small group players with a primary goal of assisting their faction. To players like this, AP is usually tertiary to Alliance War objectives and good fights.

They form impromptu groups and even blobs without formally grouping. They fight, heal, scout, start/join/defend sieges, rez, repair and assist any way they can.

I've played this style a lot and quite enjoy it.

To me, combat outside of the context of the Alliance War quickly becomes boring. I've always preferred objective-based PVP.

Yuke

Yeah and OP forgot to mention the zergling who steamrolled me and wrote me afterwards "no smallscale allowed" in a PM.

And no, i didnt flame him before.

As long as those people exist, i wont have any respect for any zerging playstyles, why should i? Those guys obviously dont agree with my playstyle as well.

Yuke

Proof:

Xexpo

Who cares?

NO ONE

Ghostbane

kaer426 wrote: »

Who cares?

NO ONE

Did you really think something contextual would be in here? get rekt

Karamis_Vimardon

Ghostbane wrote: »

kaer426 wrote: »

Who cares?

NO ONE

Did you really think something contextual would be in here? get rekt

It looks rather pretty fully opened though

Ghostbane

markgd88nrb18_ESO wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

kaer426 wrote: »

Who cares?

NO ONE

Did you really think something contextual would be in here? get rekt

It looks rather pretty fully opened though

Dat rgba scaling.

melloni_aleb16_ESO

I have the reputation of Flammer or insult in whisper ,..worries me ? no ..i don't whisper all..

i play this game solo or duo at 90% time( max party of 4 )

if you are in a siege anything goes...but This game has already problems with the normal Zerg ....the organized-guilds with " zergsball " only create lag and make it unplayable for all ( this should understand ! )

In all other situations and depending on the situation , there should be a minimum of " respect" (even between enemies).
they don't have any respect for my playstyle ( chase me in 20 is the normality , then in a fight with equal-number them not win ) .. ,why should I accept their style of play ? no



I prefer to keep my reputation Flammer

DannyLV702

I still can't 1 v potato so what about a set for potato v potato? Thnx

kylewwefan

I'm mostly a PvE player, but we have guild nites where everyone goes and gets slaughtered in the PvP areas. That must be fun for you guys. It seems you need a completely different gear, skill and mindset for Cyrodil. I think it's great for the game! Still have much to learn......

Imdrefan

My aimless play style in cyrodill recently has been a lot of fun, I don't have enough time to dedicate to trying to make AP or run with a group so I run a tank spec and try to bother groups of people and be a 'disruptor' as Crown has dubbed it. I'm not contributing to map control but I can do a pretty good job at holding up reinforcements.

Crown

@kylewwefan Read through www.darkelves.com and it should give you some good basic knowledge for PvP.

PosternHouse

There are only two kinds of players:

Players who don't know what the term meta really means, and Crown.

Crown

PosternHouse wrote: »

There are only two kinds of players: Players who don't know what the term meta really means, and Crown.

That was funny. This is funnier: goo.gl/sJMpbH