Can we talk about Champion Point stats, star placement, and passives?

Yolokin_Swagonborn

They just need to disable the entire champion system for PvP and leave it for the Achievement queens and carrot chasers in PvE.

Without the champ system, PvP can start being about resource management again instead of stacking mitigation, stacking regen, stacking damage and then spamming the hardest hitting ability.

CtrlAltDlt

If they were to put a physical dmg mitigation star, good luck killing sorcs with 20k shields and camping mines.... as a stamina build. In my opinion it is not unbalanced given that all ults scale off of magicka except leap.

Ernest145

Thick skinned should be replaced with reduce physical damage, there is no reason why dots should be reduce by hardy/elemental defender and thick skinned.

RinaldoGandolphi

As it stands right now, the only reason magic builds are not dead in PVP is because of Damage Shields.

The Champion System gives Stamina users Four Passives that reduces magic based damage(Elemental Defender, Hardy Thick Skinned, and Spell Shield). The only thing Stam users have against them is Armor Focus and it only gives 13% more Armor rating at 100 points vs Spell Shield giving 25% Spell Resistance.

Furthermore, Any Stam user with a Sharpened Weapon or Maul pretty much ignores all your armor anyways and pretty much hits for Tooltip damage. I have tested this, about 2 months ago i ran 4 Pieces Alessia Bulwark and 3 or 4 pieces of Death's Wind All Reinforced Purple Heavy VR 16 with Channel Focus put my Armor rating well over 31k if i recall. Moral of the Story, Still hit for over 6k with Wrecking Blow just like i was in Light Armor showing me that Heavy Armor is useless, and this is not to mention the Armor Penetration in the Champion system.

The current system is lopsided in the favor of Stamina which is why the majority of players in PVP are Stam builds, the Champ System is slanted specifically in their favor, and that needs to change.

Please understand, I still think damage shields can be unbalanced and probably shouldn't stack, but this can't be fixed until this absurd disparity in the Champion system is addressed.

Ishammael

juan0316 wrote: »

If they were to put a physical dmg mitigation star, good luck killing sorcs with 20k shields and camping mines.... as a stamina build. In my opinion it is not unbalanced given that all ults scale off of magicka except leap.

Lets be clear:

ALL ultimate scales off of spell damage + magicka OR weapon damage + stamina: whichever is higher.

However, most ultimates do magicka or elemental damage -- and accordingly improve with Elemental Expert or Thaumaturge. The only exception is dragon leap, which does physical damage, and is therefore improved by the "Mighty" champion passive. This feature, plus igneous shield is what makes Stamina DK so strong.

Mumyo

KenaPKK wrote: »

Red CP have a % magic damage mitigation star, but not one for physical damage. Also, magicka builds have to commit waaaay more CP to match stamina in combat effectiveness because of how the offensive stars are spread out for magicka and because of Hardy being a thing. At the current CP cap, which I have almost reached (yay!), stamina outclasses magicka entirely. Why?

There are also better passives for stamina than there are for magicka.

Every day as I play my magicka character...I wonder why I am so gimped..... I feel noticeably weaker as a magicka nightblade than I do as a stamina Breton in terms of both damage and survivability.

Also, I hate how race pigeonholes you into either magicka or stamina. But that is a different topic entirely.

I somehow agree but if magicka wouldnt have the reduced dmg on me, i would have no chance at all. especially against sorcs or magicka nb. I think that shows us the imbalance. U are right, i'd love to see some magicka builds return and less stamina players on the field.

Stikato

FENGRUSH wrote: »

If they do balance CP system out, which they should - magicka damage is going to advance up again. Its really a culmination of fixes from addressing skillss + ults (scaling with proper stats) and giving balanced CP options.

Dont worry, they will for sure get everything right in the next patch. I also anticipate there wont be any bugs.

For sure, the approach of leaving every last little fix to the next major patch, and then fixing the resulting issues in the next major patch a few months later is working great! At least we always know that the next balance pass is possibly only a few short months away.

Lucky28

I think the only class (Magicka Build) who is really hurt by the lack of physical Defense CP is DK. the lack of it is why us Sorcs have our shields, Nightblade have cloak and templers have insane burst heals. with that said, i don't really mind there not being a physical defense cp they just need to give DK's a new skill to help their survivability i think.

Of course if stam builds keep bitching about shields and cloak and all that and ZOS listens and nerfs them. then yeah, more mitigation CP would have to come.

Rune_Relic

Ishammael wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Can't quote when I'm on my phone.

All I took from your above post, Ish, is that Magicka Detonation and morphs give too much burst. I agree that they would be over the top without Hardy. But what about builds that don't use Prox/Inev?

Unfortunately, Prox/Inev are so good that nearly all magicka builds use them. Its too easy to cast det, load up your Empower buff, streak/lotus, and launch an ultimate. Because stats in 1.7 are ~15-20% higher with v16 gear, damage output has returned to nearly 1.6 levels especially considering most people have an extra 100 or so CPs.

A return to pre-1.6 health ratios (1.5:1:1) would be a welcome change and help a bit.

DKs and their DoTs are in a bad, bad place regardless.

At the end of the day, the champion system needs a careful, extensive balance pass in conjunction with the next careful, extensive skill balance pass.

But that would just mean DPS builds have more survivability.
That should be an OR and not an AND.

Shelgon

to put my PoV in perspective, lets make this situation

A crystal frag from someone min maxing in spell damage, crit damage, and max magicka hitting someone with no champion points would hit the person for about 14-17k on a crit (varies depending on empower and spell resist).

A wrecking blow from someone min maxing in weapon damage, crit damage, and max stamina hitting someone with no champion points (not that it matters) would hit the person for about 9-13k (varies depending on empower and phys resist, not including executioner bonus. I've used WB for a short time and got these numbers on most players.)

A crystal frag from the same person as before hitting someone with 100 points into hardy, giving 25% more resistance against magic damage would hit for about 9-13k, which is what I usually take when I get hit by frags from strong sorcs.

If there was a physical mitigation cp introduced, 100 points into that would bring wrecking blow down to roughly 7-9k.

I have no idea if this is actually whats going to happen, and I'm only using frag and wrecking blow since they are the most powerful attacks on either side (mag and stam), and everything here is pretty much rough estimates.

I'm not saying nothing should be done, but I think adding a physical mitigation cp is the wrong way to go, considering that even with 25% reduced damage, frags are still hitting as hard as wrecking blow.

Ernest145

Shelgon wrote: »

to put my PoV in perspective, lets make this situation

A crystal frag from someone min maxing in spell damage, crit damage, and max magicka hitting someone with no champion points would hit the person for about 14-17k on a crit (varies depending on empower and spell resist).

A wrecking blow from someone min maxing in weapon damage, crit damage, and max stamina hitting someone with no champion points (not that it matters) would hit the person for about 9-13k (varies depending on empower and phys resist, not including executioner bonus. I've used WB for a short time and got these numbers on most players.)

A crystal frag from the same person as before hitting someone with 100 points into hardy, giving 25% more resistance against magic damage would hit for about 9-13k, which is what I usually take when I get hit by frags from strong sorcs.

If there was a physical mitigation cp introduced, 100 points into that would bring wrecking blow down to roughly 7-9k.

I have no idea if this is actually whats going to happen, and I'm only using frag and wrecking blow since they are the most powerful attacks on either side (mag and stam), and everything here is pretty much rough estimates.

I'm not saying nothing should be done, but I think adding a physical mitigation cp is the wrong way to go, considering that even with 25% reduced damage, frags are still hitting as hard as wrecking blow.

Then ZOS should look at every individual skill and balance it, not make blanket changes that make weak skills even more weaker. Also, frags really don't hit that hard except from dw sorcs as you mentioned, but frags have to be procced, can't be spammed unlike wrecking blow, and its pretty obvious when you opponent will use it. It can also be reflected by scales, defensive posture, and eclipse, it can also be countered by any cleanse, cloak, block, and dodge roll so frags is fine imo. Another thing is if you are using full impen gear and also using cp to stack more crit resistance (which every non damage shield build should) you will never be hit that hard by any sorc. Just today my friend using 5L 1M 1H got hit with an emps 18k frag, and I got hit with 11k crit frag because I'm using 5L 2H all impen.

Shelgon

Ernest145 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

to put my PoV in perspective, lets make this situation

A crystal frag from someone min maxing in spell damage, crit damage, and max magicka hitting someone with no champion points would hit the person for about 14-17k on a crit (varies depending on empower and spell resist).

A wrecking blow from someone min maxing in weapon damage, crit damage, and max stamina hitting someone with no champion points (not that it matters) would hit the person for about 9-13k (varies depending on empower and phys resist, not including executioner bonus. I've used WB for a short time and got these numbers on most players.)

A crystal frag from the same person as before hitting someone with 100 points into hardy, giving 25% more resistance against magic damage would hit for about 9-13k, which is what I usually take when I get hit by frags from strong sorcs.

If there was a physical mitigation cp introduced, 100 points into that would bring wrecking blow down to roughly 7-9k.

I have no idea if this is actually whats going to happen, and I'm only using frag and wrecking blow since they are the most powerful attacks on either side (mag and stam), and everything here is pretty much rough estimates.

I'm not saying nothing should be done, but I think adding a physical mitigation cp is the wrong way to go, considering that even with 25% reduced damage, frags are still hitting as hard as wrecking blow.

Then ZOS should look at every individual skill and balance it, not make blanket changes that make weak skills even more weaker.

now you're talking, some skills' base damage are just too high, and some too low, just needs a bit of tweaking, should be fine.

Ernest145

Shelgon wrote: »

Ernest145 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

to put my PoV in perspective, lets make this situation

A crystal frag from someone min maxing in spell damage, crit damage, and max magicka hitting someone with no champion points would hit the person for about 14-17k on a crit (varies depending on empower and spell resist).

A wrecking blow from someone min maxing in weapon damage, crit damage, and max stamina hitting someone with no champion points (not that it matters) would hit the person for about 9-13k (varies depending on empower and phys resist, not including executioner bonus. I've used WB for a short time and got these numbers on most players.)

A crystal frag from the same person as before hitting someone with 100 points into hardy, giving 25% more resistance against magic damage would hit for about 9-13k, which is what I usually take when I get hit by frags from strong sorcs.

If there was a physical mitigation cp introduced, 100 points into that would bring wrecking blow down to roughly 7-9k.

I have no idea if this is actually whats going to happen, and I'm only using frag and wrecking blow since they are the most powerful attacks on either side (mag and stam), and everything here is pretty much rough estimates.

I'm not saying nothing should be done, but I think adding a physical mitigation cp is the wrong way to go, considering that even with 25% reduced damage, frags are still hitting as hard as wrecking blow.

Then ZOS should look at every individual skill and balance it, not make blanket changes that make weak skills even more weaker.

now you're talking, some skills' base damage are just too high, and some too low, just needs a bit of tweaking, should be fine.

Unfortunately all ZOS knows how to do is blanket changes Just hoping they prove us wrong with this next major update.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Just wanted to point you all to this thread where Eric Wrobel is looking for feedback on the top 3 changes you'd like to see to the Champion System bonuses: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237255/champion-system-ability-review

frozywozy

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. And those nbs still have a huge burst. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjusted.

Ernest145

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjust.

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjust.

not sure if you don't know but you can wrecking blow to dragon leap most people and kill them.

Prox det- yes does too much damage towards single target for something that should be a "zergbuster"
Dawnbreaker- hits less than dragon leap except on vamps then it's about even
Curse- easily cleansed and can time a block when its about to go off
Frag- must be procced to hit really hard and also easily countered by scales, defensive posture, eclipse, ball of lightning, cloak (see every class has a counter)

I agree prox det nerf to do less damage to one target is good, but then majicka templars and dragon knights need more options for burst damage. Yes shields should be critable, or yes something should be done about stacking because for stam builds shields are annoying but more horrible, but for majicka builds good luck trying to get through a sorcs 20k hardened and harness majicka not including healing ward.

frozywozy

Ernest145 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjust.

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjust.

not sure if you don't know but you can wrecking blow to dragon leap most people and kill them.

Prox det- yes does too much damage towards single target for something that should be a "zergbuster"
Dawnbreaker- hits less than dragon leap except on vamps then it's about even
Curse- easily cleansed and can time a block when its about to go off
Frag- must be procced to hit really hard and also easily countered by scales, defensive posture, eclipse, ball of lightning, cloak (see every class has a counter)

I agree prox det nerf to do less damage to one target is good, but then majicka templars and dragon knights need more options for burst damage. Yes shields should be critable, or yes something should be done about stacking because for stam builds shields are annoying but more horrible, but for majicka builds good luck trying to get through a sorcs 20k hardened and harness majicka not including healing ward.

Dawnbreaker can crit on a stamina user, trying to time a Leap in the slit second when the sorc shield is down to have a chance to crit is another story.

Curse can be cleansed, that's true. Sadly I don't have the magicka or the space to run purge as a stam character.

Frag can be casted from distance and can be procced. Wrecking blow has to be in melee range and can't proc. It can be blocked, dodge rolled, cloaked, feared and even a 12years old kid can find a tree or any object to run around to abuse the LoS to interrupt the wb cast while dropping mines continuously.

Ernest145

frozywozy wrote: »

Ernest145 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjust.

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjust.

not sure if you don't know but you can wrecking blow to dragon leap most people and kill them.

Prox det- yes does too much damage towards single target for something that should be a "zergbuster"
Dawnbreaker- hits less than dragon leap except on vamps then it's about even
Curse- easily cleansed and can time a block when its about to go off
Frag- must be procced to hit really hard and also easily countered by scales, defensive posture, eclipse, ball of lightning, cloak (see every class has a counter)

I agree prox det nerf to do less damage to one target is good, but then majicka templars and dragon knights need more options for burst damage. Yes shields should be critable, or yes something should be done about stacking because for stam builds shields are annoying but more horrible, but for majicka builds good luck trying to get through a sorcs 20k hardened and harness majicka not including healing ward.

Dawnbreaker can crit on a stamina user, trying to time a Leap in the slit second when the sorc shield is down to have a chance to crit is another story.

Curse can be cleansed, that's true. Sadly I don't have the magicka or the space to run purge as a stam character.

Frag can be casted from distance and can be procced. Wrecking blow has to be in melee range and can't proc. It can be blocked, dodge rolled, cloaked, feared and even a 12years old kid can find a tree or any object to run around to abuse the LoS while dropping mine continuously.

As I already said shields should be critable, so not sure why you bring up that argument again.

With curse you can also time a block before it goes off which is not that hard to do.

Yes but wrecking blow can't be interrupted and empowers itself. Frags can be reflected, absorb with harness majicka (only for mag builds), blocked, dodge rolled, and cloaked also so not sure why you would use that as an argument. Frags it ranged and can be procced so that is the only advantage, but as a stam build you have venom arrow (an interrupt) and as a stam dk you have scales or can use defensive posture. Stam nightblades can cloak, stam templars can cleanse the frag before it hits, and sorcs can use ball of lightning. Everyone class has a clear counter to frag. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying crystal frags is weak in any way, but I dont think it is overpowered because of the fact it has so many counters and personally I'm fine with wrecking blow because it also has its counters (other than sometimes hitting even when the players is out of the los). I just think there should be a cp star for reducing physical damage and it should replace thick skinned to help make dots more viable.

frozywozy

Ernest145 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ernest145 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjust.

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjust.

not sure if you don't know but you can wrecking blow to dragon leap most people and kill them.

Prox det- yes does too much damage towards single target for something that should be a "zergbuster"
Dawnbreaker- hits less than dragon leap except on vamps then it's about even
Curse- easily cleansed and can time a block when its about to go off
Frag- must be procced to hit really hard and also easily countered by scales, defensive posture, eclipse, ball of lightning, cloak (see every class has a counter)

I agree prox det nerf to do less damage to one target is good, but then majicka templars and dragon knights need more options for burst damage. Yes shields should be critable, or yes something should be done about stacking because for stam builds shields are annoying but more horrible, but for majicka builds good luck trying to get through a sorcs 20k hardened and harness majicka not including healing ward.

Dawnbreaker can crit on a stamina user, trying to time a Leap in the slit second when the sorc shield is down to have a chance to crit is another story.

Curse can be cleansed, that's true. Sadly I don't have the magicka or the space to run purge as a stam character.

Frag can be casted from distance and can be procced. Wrecking blow has to be in melee range and can't proc. It can be blocked, dodge rolled, cloaked, feared and even a 12years old kid can find a tree or any object to run around to abuse the LoS while dropping mine continuously.

As I already said shields should be critable, so not sure why you bring up that argument again.

With curse you can also time a block before it goes off which is not that hard to do.

Yes but wrecking blow can't be interrupted and empowers itself. Frags can be reflected, absorb with harness majicka (only for mag builds), blocked, dodge rolled, and cloaked also so not sure why you would use that as an argument. Frags it ranged and can be procced so that is the only advantage, but as a stam build you have venom arrow (an interrupt) and as a stam dk you have scales or can use defensive posture. Stam nightblades can cloak, stam templars can cleanse the frag before it hits, and sorcs can use ball of lightning. Everyone class has a clear counter to frag. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying crystal frags is weak in any way, but I dont think it is overpowered because of the fact it has so many counters and personally I'm fine with wrecking blow because it also has its counters (other than sometimes hitting even when the players is out of the los). I just think there should be a cp star for reducing physical damage and it should replace thick skinned to help make dots more viable.

The only reason why I brought the shield uncritable aspect is because you said that leap damage is lot higher than dawnbreaker, which only happen when you can actually crit, which is hard to manage when a sorc can just reapply a 20k shield constantly.

Then I gave the ways to avoid a wrecking blow because there is a thread about "Nerf wrecking blow" and because people have been complaining about the fact that weapon damage is harder to mitigate than spell damage. But they all forget that magicka nbs and sorcs have the highest burst in the game since they can relay on timed abilities such as prox det and curse.

I've never complained about frag in particular, I just stated that frag is not worse than wrecking blow and that magicka sorcs are in a much better state than any stamina character atm because they can benefit from the burst aspect and the low TTK we used to have back in 1.6. They don't even need to frag, curse, prox, dawnbreaker, streak and endless fury is enough in most scenarios. If they get a crystal frag proc and hit you while you're cc breaking the streak or when wings won't reflect a frag because "reasons", then that's even easier.

With softcaps, it would be another story.

klink012

frozywozy wrote: »

Not sure why everybody is complaining about Stamina damage mitigation.

Stamina has the highest constant DPS for sure but Magicka nbs / sorcs definitely have the highest burst atm with prox det. Any good sorc or nb can burst you down in a second using the proper combination of skills and it doesn't even require a huge amount of champion points. I have 50points in hardy, 20points in thick skinned, 20points in elemental defender, 30points in spell shield, 40points in resistant, 3pc impen and I get hit by 10k dawnbreaker of smithing, 14k prox det, 7k curses, 9k crystal frags all the time.

I'm looking forward for the prox det nerf to deal minimal damage to one target. And I still hope that they will change shield stacking. Either allow shields to be critable or make it so you can only have one shield up. Otherwise, crit builds are fully countered by a magicka sorc. Even on some nbs I can't even burst through healing ward spamming with 3k weapon dmg. And those nbs still have a huge burst. There is definitely a problem that need to be adjusted.

Shield stacking is a problem when Healing ward gives 300% shield to the player that casts it, remove Healing Ward's ability to multiply on self. Change it to "up to 300% on others" friendly only. That would be a step in the right direction for PVP at least.

When the Champion Point System was announced I thought it would be CLASS related / specific not "general". It would be really awesome to see some different / unique builds out there again. It's all cookie cutter builds spamming 1 or 2 skills (fix that first before messing with CP). Also, ensure that every CP "ability" functions correctly and works how it is supposed to.

#1 utmost important Champion Point ability change = When getting attacked FORCE the attacker to finish the animation of the ability being used.

#2 supremely important Champion Point ability change = When getting attacked by the same ability multiple times in a row by same attacker; the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc hit of the same ability will HEAL the defender for amount of damage done.

#3 best of all Champion Point ability change = "Lag Crusher" More points in this ability lowers your ping to the server and increases the giant radius around your character where players cannot cast AoE abilities, Meteor, Purge, Templar healing abilities, Healing Springs, it also pulls players out of stealth and if someone uses a gap closer THEY get frozen in carbonite. Not YOU!

ESO FTW!