Group Finder scaling. Good but still insufficient healing and dps.

Karius_Imalthar

I have been using Group Finder a bit more now that it adds the scaling and cross-alliance groups. I have found that, though it does boost the stats of the lower level members, the healing and dps from these members is still too low to be effective. I am V16 and have joined groups with level 40+ members and we still floundered on normal dungeons that have posed minimal difficulty in the past. I hope this system can be reevaluated and adjustments can be made. Thank you.

Faunter

They have stated that they will include a buff to damage, healing, and mitigation to all members of a LFG-Tool group. You will also get a special daily loot sack if you complete a dungeon with such a group. They talked about it on ESO live a few weeks back, but I'm not sure when these features will actually get implemented.

Ashtaris

Part of the problem doesn't come from the lack of damage or healing, but the lack of skills and experience with some dungeon groups. For example, often times I'm with a group that's never done any of the group dungeons, has no idea of the boss mechanics, some have just barely unlocked their second weapon/skill bar, and many of them don't have the skills unlocked that you and I would have as V16's. I don't mind teaching and I will not drop out of the group, but it can be slow going at times, that's for sure I'm not sure what the solution would be except for the LFG to try and group players based on level ranges, i.e. 10-20, 20-30, ..... etc. You can bump up the damage and healing abilities, but is that enough to compensate for the differences in skills?

puffy99

Mainly mechanics I would say since two good players can carry a group but some Dungeons you have to be geared right or you will wipe. Others it doesn't matter.

NewBlacksmurf

Karius_Imalthar wrote: »

I have been using Group Finder a bit more now that it adds the scaling and cross-alliance groups. I have found that, though it does boost the stats of the lower level members, the healing and dps from these members is still too low to be effective. I am V16 and have joined groups with level 40+ members and we still floundered on normal dungeons that have posed minimal difficulty in the past. I hope this system can be reevaluated and adjustments can be made. Thank you.

-There is no amount of buffing that will resolve a skill line where a specific skill is less than IV.
-There is no amount of buffing that will resolve another player being unfamiliar with their class
-there is no amount of buffing that will resolve another player being unfamiliar with boss and trash fights.
-there is no amount of buffing that will resolve another player without a 5 set bonus for their role
-there is no amount of buffing that will resolve another player using greens and blues vs all purples or orange gear and items with food buffs.

So a lot these issues are the result of players whose skill lines may not be mature yet or who may be new to a class or the dungeon. The way you work around this is no different than if everyone was VR16 and certain skills were not maxed.....communicate, adjust and work together.

I'm not saying the system is without flaws but I am saying for the most part, we all just need to slow down and work together better. This week on a new alt who is DPS and heals very occasionally (Templar level 18 in greens and blues) we ran three dungeons that took longer than normal and we died quite a few times, but as we played together, we died less and less eventually getting to the end with no deaths on the last two bosses.


**EDIT***
-What youre actually asking for that the gear, skill, class learning curve and food buffs no longer apply to LFG groups which then makes playing a large part of PvE pointless.

I know you're concerned with how things are playing out but I personally don't see the current state as a problem. Its that people need to learn the changes and play accordingly. BUT ALSO THOSE WHO DO UNDERSTAND bear the responsibility of gently educating and helping others along.

J2JMC

Your first mistake was using the group finder. The LFG tool with the recent battle leveling change is completely useless until they remove vet ranks at this point. Most new players aren't going to have good gear for their level so their stats are going to be sh*t since battle leveling is based on attribute points and gear.

Karius_Imalthar

The intended goal is to have people be able to quickly find groups to do content they are interested in and results in useful rewards for all participants. I think the level/skill disparity is part of it but also the roles. A v16 healer may be able to carry the group while a v16 tank can only do so much. I'm not sure what would help with this and not just super buff low level players.

Would a different approach be effective? What if players and dungeon are leveled to the average level of the group? Would that work better?

NewBlacksmurf

Karius_Imalthar wrote: »

The intended goal is to have people be able to quickly find groups to do content they are interested in and results in useful rewards for all participants. I think the level/skill disparity is part of it but also the roles. A v16 healer may be able to carry the group while a v16 tank can only do so much. I'm not sure what would help with this and not just super buff low level players.

Would a different approach be effective? What if players and dungeon are leveled to the average level of the group? Would that work better?

Removing VR is step one...its a big step but I think it resolves a lot as long as they don't try to pull CP's in place of VR but other than that....its just that ppl aren't use to having challenges at level.

code65536

J2JMC wrote: »

Your first mistake was using the group finder. The LFG tool with the recent battle leveling change is completely useless until they remove vet ranks at this point. Most new players aren't going to have good gear for their level so their stats are going to be sh*t since battle leveling is based on attribute points and gear.

Um... and how exactly is VR removal going to fix that? VR removal isn't going to magically give people better gear. Or better player skills.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The current battle leveling provides more than enough bonuses to players. I tried out battle leveling, on a level 20 character, in green Kagrenac/Torug that was 4 levels out of date. His stats were comparable to what I'd get with purple VR16 gear. On a VR1 with VR1 purple set gear, you'd have better stats than a VR16 in endgame gold. In fact, people are complaining that, in PvP, battle-leveled characters with proper gearing and played by an experienced player currently have an unfair advantage over VR16 players.

Wearing junk non-set gear? That's not a battle-leveling problem, that's a L2P problem (and I've seen VR16s who wear trash gear or gear that is totally unsuitable for their build, so this isn't something that magically disappears once someone hits max rank). Someone who thinks combat is all light and heavy attacks? That's a L2P problem.

No amount of stat buffing will fix L2P problems. In fact, they will only exacerbate these issues by hiding them under the rug and making it so that the player is not forced to confront their problems.

Faunter wrote: »

They have stated that they will include a buff to damage, healing, and mitigation to all members of a LFG-Tool group. You will also get a special daily loot sack if you complete a dungeon with such a group. They talked about it on ESO live a few weeks back, but I'm not sure when these features will actually get implemented.

The idea of a loot bag was scrapped. And AFAICT, the only buffs come from the bonus buffs given to battle-leveled characters. VR16 characters have the exact same stats. Frankly, I wasn't a fan of either, and am fine with the group finder stats as it is. Right now, it already provides a very generous stat buff to low level characters (maybe even too generous), and I don't want my VR16 toons' stats given an unwarranted boost.

Karius_Imalthar wrote: »

I have been using Group Finder a bit more now that it adds the scaling and cross-alliance groups. I have found that, though it does boost the stats of the lower level members, the healing and dps from these members is still too low to be effective. I am V16 and have joined groups with level 40+ members and we still floundered on normal dungeons that have posed minimal difficulty in the past. I hope this system can be reevaluated and adjustments can be made. Thank you.

It's not a stat issue. I've done a battle-leveled dungeon with a lowbie alt and crushed everything because I was properly geared and knew what I was doing. Even at VR16, there's a very wide range of experiences with random pledge groups. The same applies to battle-leveled groups as well, and it's not the fault of battle-leveling if you wipe because there's a group of first-timers who don't know what they're doing--that same group would almost certainly be wiping if they did the dungeon at level.