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Wrecking blow needs changed
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »I don't think WB needs to be nerfed, BUT......
It's time for all the OTHER attacks with cast times to be buffed! Abilities like Crystal Blast and Dark Flare are USELESS in PvP because they're so easily interrupted. It's totally bogus that only Wrecking Blow gets a free pass, considering it's the hardest hitting non-Ultimate in the game.
I would agree if..... all those abilities had an 7-8m range on them... but the fact they can be cast from great distance and keeps you out of harms way balances it i think.... or would you be willing to cap the range on those abilities at 8m and have them not be interruptable?
DK SCRUB OUT
Honestly, I wouldn't care about a shorter range. The reason? All my PvP combat is in the IC sewers, where "ranged" combat is a joke anyway. I can't remember ever fighting a ganker who let me lob Crystal Frags at him from 28 meters away. Everyone in the sewers, including the mobs, is right up in your face all the time!
As for the range, I think a 17 meter range like the Destructive Clench spell would be a reasonable compromise, but like I said, I could live with 7 meters if I had to. If they reduced the range all the way to 7 meters, they should have to rebalance a bunch of other things, too, like Spell Damage on staves versus 2H or DW.
Edited by Emma_Overload on December 6, 2015 4:39PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
caeliusstarbreaker✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seriously though... 1v1-2 maybe 3 wb isn't an issue. It's telegraphed and if you used some CC, LoS, and walkin through your opponent it's avoidable. Now if 1v2-3 and beyond you want it nerfed because it stops you from surviving those situations, well the. You all should have stopped crying for needs earlier because the game shift(ed)(s) more and more towards larger numbers wins... Even if it is by 1-2 players more. The inevitability of nerfs has lead to things like wrecking blow being a standout across stam builds that don't have another way to put out dps and a CC and a buff that people of other classes want to hold I to exclusively.Rhage Lionpride DC Stamina Templar
K-Hole0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »@Galalin i totally feel you bro. But those guys a have good knowledge and enough following to warrant to be heard. With only 4 classes everyone needs options to be viable. Small tweeks like i per posed are what we need. I never once said to 'nerf' WB i just think the empower shouldnt apply to WB. On another note i don't appreciate the negative comments.
Ok i will say it one more time bro... the empower buff from WB does not apply to itself.... not on the first WB.... not on the second WB.... not on the third WB... not EVER.
DK SCRUB OUT
bulshits... 20%bonus is aplied to every attack, nm magicka or stamina based, including WB. Tested!
Now stlop spam warr and go bck to WB spam.
OUT SCRUB
So apparently since IC came out the empower buff from WB IS applying to the next WB... so I stand corrected on that issue and agree it does need fixed but was not always the case. ZoS always seems to break some *** whenever they touch anything.
DK SCRUB OUTEmma_Eunjung wrote: »I don't think WB needs to be nerfed, BUT......
It's time for all the OTHER attacks with cast times to be buffed! Abilities like Crystal Blast and Dark Flare are USELESS in PvP because they're so easily interrupted. It's totally bogus that only Wrecking Blow gets a free pass, considering it's the hardest hitting non-Ultimate in the game.
I would agree if..... all those abilities had an 7-8m range on them... but the fact they can be cast from great distance and keeps you out of harms way balances it i think.... or would you be willing to cap the range on those abilities at 8m and have them not be interruptable?
DK SCRUB OUT
it would if gap closers would have only 10-15m range but with their current range staying out of range of a gapcloser while staying within the range where one step back of your target did not cancel your previous second of arm whirling is impossible.
you don't need to stay out of range of the gap closer...its a dead giveaway what come after a crit rush/stampede...you get crit rushed you dodge or blode the inc WB or CC. its not like the WB is being cast from 30m away as you stated a gap closer comes first.Edited by Galalin on December 6, 2015 5:42PM1 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »@Galalin i totally feel you bro. But those guys a have good knowledge and enough following to warrant to be heard. With only 4 classes everyone needs options to be viable. Small tweeks like i per posed are what we need. I never once said to 'nerf' WB i just think the empower shouldnt apply to WB. On another note i don't appreciate the negative comments.
Ok i will say it one more time bro... the empower buff from WB does not apply to itself.... not on the first WB.... not on the second WB.... not on the third WB... not EVER.
DK SCRUB OUT
bulshits... 20%bonus is aplied to every attack, nm magicka or stamina based, including WB. Tested!
Now stlop spam warr and go bck to WB spam.
OUT SCRUB
So apparently since IC came out the empower buff from WB IS applying to the next WB... so I stand corrected on that issue and agree it does need fixed but was not always the case. ZoS always seems to break some *** whenever they touch anything.
DK SCRUB OUTEmma_Eunjung wrote: »I don't think WB needs to be nerfed, BUT......
It's time for all the OTHER attacks with cast times to be buffed! Abilities like Crystal Blast and Dark Flare are USELESS in PvP because they're so easily interrupted. It's totally bogus that only Wrecking Blow gets a free pass, considering it's the hardest hitting non-Ultimate in the game.
I would agree if..... all those abilities had an 7-8m range on them... but the fact they can be cast from great distance and keeps you out of harms way balances it i think.... or would you be willing to cap the range on those abilities at 8m and have them not be interruptable?
DK SCRUB OUT
it would if gap closers would have only 10-15m range but with their current range staying out of range of a gapcloser while staying within the range where one step back of your target did not cancel your previous second of arm whirling is impossible.
you don't need to stay out of range of the gap closer...its a dead giveaway what come after a crit rush/stampede...you get crit rushed you dodge or blode the inc WB or CC. its not like the WB is being cast from 30m away as you stated a gap closer comes first.
I think the issue is the cheap cost and spam ability of wrecking blow
So you dodge roll thst wrecking blow after just being hit by Stampede, ok it's dodged, now I need to purge that snare otherwise I can't walk through them, that one second you spend cast purge another wrecking blow incoming, better block since another dodge will have the 33% increased cost.
Ok now I'll throw a couple moves at that stam dk spamming wb, but wait another wrecking blow is incoming
, I'll dodge this one, okay now I can attack, oh wait another wrecking blow , I'm blocking but since the last 6 have drained my stamina I'm now out of stamina.
Okay last chance to att...oh wait another wrecking blow, I can't dodge or block now, great I'm on the ground just need to get up ..oh wait another wrecking blow, wow 13k damage? Better heal, wait what's that? Another wrecking blow? Really? The 15th one and their not out of stamina?3 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I would agree if..... all those abilities had an 7-8m range on them... but the fact they can be cast from great distance and keeps you out of harms way balances it i think.... or would you be willing to cap the range on those abilities at 8m and have them not be interruptable?
DK SCRUB OUTit would if gap closers would have only 10-15m range but with their current range staying out of range of a gapcloser while staying within the range where one step back of your target did not cancel your previous second of arm whirling is impossible.you don't need to stay out of range of the gap closer...its a dead giveaway what come after a crit rush/stampede...you get crit rushed you dodge or blode the inc WB or CC. its not like the WB is being cast from 30m away as you stated a gap closer comes first.
you are mixing up some things here i was referring to your statement that the lesser dmg of abilities like CF and dark flare compared to WB is balanced by the fact that they can stay out of harm, and in the next sentence you are exactly supporting my point that the range advantage is futile with the current gapcloser situation.
by throwing the WBér directly into their face...
[edit]
splited the quotes to make it more obvious:Edited by Tankqull on December 7, 2015 1:54AMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭
I would agree if..... all those abilities had an 7-8m range on them... but the fact they can be cast from great distance and keeps you out of harms way balances it i think.... or would you be willing to cap the range on those abilities at 8m and have them not be interruptable?
DK SCRUB OUTit would if gap closers would have only 10-15m range but with their current range staying out of range of a gapcloser while staying within the range where one step back of your target did not cancel your previous second of arm whirling is impossible.you don't need to stay out of range of the gap closer...its a dead giveaway what come after a crit rush/stampede...you get crit rushed you dodge or blode the inc WB or CC. its not like the WB is being cast from 30m away as you stated a gap closer comes first.
you are mixing up some things here i was referring to your statement that the lesser dmg of abilities like CF and dark flare compared to WB is balanced by the fact that they can stay out of harm, and in the next sentence you are exactly supporting my point that the range advantage is futile with the current gapcloser situation. by throwing the WBér directly into their face...
[edit]
splited the quotes to make it more obvious:
Getting to confusing for my old mind... just gonna say sure we willl go with that.
So your saying the range advantage makes no difference?
DK SCRUB OUT0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭yes most of the time its not an advantage as its is denied immediatly.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »@Galalin i totally feel you bro. But those guys a have good knowledge and enough following to warrant to be heard. With only 4 classes everyone needs options to be viable. Small tweeks like i per posed are what we need. I never once said to 'nerf' WB i just think the empower shouldnt apply to WB. On another note i don't appreciate the negative comments.
Ok i will say it one more time bro... the empower buff from WB does not apply to itself.... not on the first WB.... not on the second WB.... not on the third WB... not EVER.
DK SCRUB OUT
bulshits... 20%bonus is aplied to every attack, nm magicka or stamina based, including WB. Tested!
Now stlop spam warr and go bck to WB spam.
OUT SCRUB
So apparently since IC came out the empower buff from WB IS applying to the next WB... so I stand corrected on that issue and agree it does need fixed but was not always the case. ZoS always seems to break some *** whenever they touch anything.
DK SCRUB OUTEmma_Eunjung wrote: »I don't think WB needs to be nerfed, BUT......
It's time for all the OTHER attacks with cast times to be buffed! Abilities like Crystal Blast and Dark Flare are USELESS in PvP because they're so easily interrupted. It's totally bogus that only Wrecking Blow gets a free pass, considering it's the hardest hitting non-Ultimate in the game.
I would agree if..... all those abilities had an 7-8m range on them... but the fact they can be cast from great distance and keeps you out of harms way balances it i think.... or would you be willing to cap the range on those abilities at 8m and have them not be interruptable?
DK SCRUB OUT
it would if gap closers would have only 10-15m range but with their current range staying out of range of a gapcloser while staying within the range where one step back of your target did not cancel your previous second of arm whirling is impossible.
you don't need to stay out of range of the gap closer...its a dead giveaway what come after a crit rush/stampede...you get crit rushed you dodge or blode the inc WB or CC. its not like the WB is being cast from 30m away as you stated a gap closer comes first.
I think the issue is the cheap cost and spam ability of wrecking blow
So you dodge roll thst wrecking blow after just being hit by Stampede, ok it's dodged, now I need to purge that snare otherwise I can't walk through them, that one second you spend cast purge another wrecking blow incoming, better block since another dodge will have the 33% increased cost.
Ok now I'll throw a couple moves at that stam dk spamming wb, but wait another wrecking blow is incoming
, I'll dodge this one, okay now I can attack, oh wait another wrecking blow , I'm blocking but since the last 6 have drained my stamina I'm now out of stamina.
Okay last chance to att...oh wait another wrecking blow, I can't dodge or block now, great I'm on the ground just need to get up ..oh wait another wrecking blow, wow 13k damage? Better heal, wait what's that? Another wrecking blow? Really? The 15th one and their not out of stamina?
I get the frustration but if you think it is so easy to just stand and spam wb i can show you in game how i counter it.... your more than welcome to grab a 2h and we can have a few friendly tests on the matter... it boils to down reaction time counter strats and abilities used.
My ingame name is the same as my forum name and im EP NA
DK SCRUB OUT0 -
Skinzz✭✭✭✭✭^^ lol I'm down for it too. I'll let whoever try to cast only wb on me and I'll simply dodge roll once and they're deadAnybody got a group? LFG, anybody? Hello?0 -
Van_0S✭✭✭✭✭Nerf WB, Steel tornado, Crystal fragments and Surprise attack to the ground, please ZOS.
Thank you.Edited by Van_0S on December 7, 2015 4:33AM1 -
americansteel✭✭✭✭i sxskinzcity wrote: »Clearly you're not using CCs or dodge rolling if you're getting wrecked by WB. Seems like only low levels use WB so its on you if you get hit by it. Try spamming WB in a group fight and you would be the first to die. Its only single target and has a cast time. You're probably just a sitting target .
i spam WB in groups, so do AD and DC. crit strike,WB,executioner. all the time. every conflict i see it.NO LONGER PLAYING ESO
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DONE0 -
jpalm1995✭✭✭A channeled ability being animation cancelled? Thanks for my daily laughsI always say that I hate this game, yet for some reason i'm still here.1 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭A channeled ability being animation cancelled? Thanks for my daily laughs
A channel is something like biting jabs where you have to actually keep the skill going. Thst can't be animation cancelled
Wrecking blow can, you can cancel just as the sword is pulled back all the way bash then cast another skill, the animation will completly stop but the blow will still hit them0 -
blur✭✭✭✭
Agreed. Nor do you cancel WB animation by starting with WB. You apply WB to L/M/H and then weave. Not the other way around.Edited by blur on December 7, 2015 10:33PM0 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭A channeled ability being animation cancelled? Thanks for my daily laughs
A channel is something like biting jabs where you have to actually keep the skill going. Thst can't be animation cancelled
Wrecking blow can, you can cancel just as the sword is pulled back all the way bash then cast another skill, the animation will completly stop but the blow will still hit them
pls see Blurs post below
Agreed. Nor do you cancel WB animation by starting with WB. You apply WB to L/M/H and then weave. Not the other way around.
Agreed ^^^^ is correct
DK SCRUB OUT0 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNgamnjimo&list=LLN85g0qa0_A4_Uwq_5yceDw
at 13:00, Templar with bashable WB against crushing shock sorc which is perma interrupt and it still works fine...
Also it had a longer casttime in 1.5 and earlierl... Works just fine but u need brains for it.
Making this bashable would put a stop to stupid spamming of abilities.
Wb should be something u use out of a good situation to burst someone down but not to spam it for a free win, this only makes noobs strong and hurts the experienced players. Literally makes em leave.
While I don't use WB, your example is flawed.
First the Templar is using Unstoppable to become immune to interrupts. Second the immunities duration at the time of this video was 15 seconds. None of this is viable in the current state of the game.Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.0 -
Methariorn✭✭✭WB is not a problem for a decent player when the server in not laggin; WB is a serius problem when the lag festival start and you can't be sure of distance anymore, frame rate drop and slow motion fight with 500+ ping start. In that situation WB is the winning skill: be sure that you can't react (or not even see) to that skill.Methariorn sorc EU server AD
Acciughina NB EU server AD
Aiacos Templar EU server AD
Sevoltan DK EU server AD0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »
I have had the argument that it was fine for a long time except for carve / brawler, what I am arguing AGAINST is nerfing wrecking blow without buffing everything else. The other abilities on the tree do not serve as reliable dps to bring the enemy under 50% health
Use your class skils! If they are not good enough, flame ZoS. And making WB interuptable is not a nerf ... this is called balance. You can see video /in coments above/ how good player stil rock with interuptable WB and no spam.
Yes, those oh so reliable stamina skills for dk. WB would be awful, just as it was awful, if it was bashable again.0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭A channeled ability being animation cancelled? Thanks for my daily laughs
A channel is something like biting jabs where you have to actually keep the skill going. Thst can't be animation cancelled
Wrecking blow can, you can cancel just as the sword is pulled back all the way bash then cast another skill, the animation will completly stop but the blow will still hit them
pls see Blurs post below
Agreed. Nor do you cancel WB animation by starting with WB. You apply WB to L/M/H and then weave. Not the other way around.
Agreed ^^^^ is correct
DK SCRUB OUT
That's how you start it, but once the sword is pulled back for the swing you can bash and use another skill and then wrecking blow will land.
I normally use it with unstable flame, just as the swing is charged I bash then use unstable and the target ends up mid air with unstable flame hitting them, then another medium attack.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A channeled ability being animation cancelled? Thanks for my daily laughs
A channel is something like biting jabs where you have to actually keep the skill going. Thst can't be animation cancelled
Wrecking blow can, you can cancel just as the sword is pulled back all the way bash then cast another skill, the animation will completly stop but the blow will still hit them
pls see Blurs post below
Agreed. Nor do you cancel WB animation by starting with WB. You apply WB to L/M/H and then weave. Not the other way around.
Agreed ^^^^ is correct
DK SCRUB OUT
That's how you start it, but once the sword is pulled back for the swing you can bash and use another skill and then wrecking blow will land.
I normally use it with unstable flame, just as the swing is charged I bash then use unstable and the target ends up mid air with unstable flame hitting them, then another medium attack.
Why would you waste the empower
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Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »A channeled ability being animation cancelled? Thanks for my daily laughs
A channel is something like biting jabs where you have to actually keep the skill going. Thst can't be animation cancelled
Wrecking blow can, you can cancel just as the sword is pulled back all the way bash then cast another skill, the animation will completly stop but the blow will still hit them
pls see Blurs post below
Agreed. Nor do you cancel WB animation by starting with WB. You apply WB to L/M/H and then weave. Not the other way around.
Agreed ^^^^ is correct
DK SCRUB OUT
That's how you start it, but once the sword is pulled back for the swing you can bash and use another skill and then wrecking blow will land.
I normally use it with unstable flame, just as the swing is charged I bash then use unstable and the target ends up mid air with unstable flame hitting them, then another medium attack.
Why would you waste the empower
You could just spam wb and nothing else, since it's recent buff it now empowers itself.0 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭Each class needs to be different to be fun. I don't play stam anything cause I been there and done that and its boring.
DPS across Stam builds is NB then everyone else, and everyone else is using WB, even some NB. Its the same for magicka (sorcs ... NB ... who's left?) only everyone doesn't have access to the Destruction staff MONSTER skill, cause it doesn't exist, nor should it. Classes need to be unique and since DK and Templar lack mobility they should benefit more from their class identity, buff, debuff, mitigate, and heal, and I'm talking stam and magicka. Their damage should be less then the DPS classes but the
People cry templar has a StamJab, but it stinks compared to WB. Buffing it will not fix things as both are on the bar. It will only make the Templar stronger. Chase with Jab, stand and CRUSH with WB. Stam-whip would not do anything for DK as they simply won't want to use it over WB. This skill is just to OP.
WB does monster damage. It knocks down, its stuns, it empowers, its cast time is less then Jab/sweeps, its not bash-able, and can't be interrupted. Its literally like a Freight Train. Its made more powerful by Executioner and they synergize perfectly together. CC breaking with knock down AND stun causes the animation for CC break to not apply the CC immunity before the next WB hits.
It's simply to powerful for builds that can't dodge roll, streak, block, and those of us that caught up in a channel, with currently sub par shields. Animation canceling makes it harder to track. Its ranges is ridiculous. If your 90 degree from the caster you can still get hit.
Take away the knock down and the Empower. It will still do tons of damage and stun, as well as benefit executioner increase damage. Frankly the 2 handed line does to much compared to the other Weapons. DW = Steel tornado or Spell Damage. 2 handed has a buff/heal in rally, WB is the king of all, and an execute. The 2 handed skill line is more powerful then most if not all class trees.
Empower should really only being a on gap closers, imo, as all but Ambush can not be spammed. Dark Flare should just have its damaged increased if they want it to hit harder.
All abilities need looked at for their hit zones. That's not just a WB issue. Perhaps they need a to show the zone so you can stay out of it. idk.1 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would be really nice if stam sorcs had something else to use as an attack that was effective. Oh I don't know...say... A class based stamina attack.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
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