Maintenance for the week of September 24:
• PC/Mac: North American and European megaservers for patch maintenance – September 24, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC)

RNG and players giving up

  • whsprwind
    whsprwind
    ✭✭✭
    Recremen wrote: »
    I definitely feel like there's something "off" about the RNG in this game. Whether it's murdering trolls for skulls for literally months with no luck, or 10 Malubeth shoulders versus a couple of other kinds, there does seem to be something in the RNG defying all expectations of normal distribution. And more to the point, a little RNG grind isn't the worst thing in the world, but a lot of RNG grind (or a lot of grind in general) is not something I find desirable in a game. I think it's reasonable to expect to be able to achieve everything in an MMO without it becoming your entire life. That's why the Wrothgar daily quest achievements aren't so bad compared to some of the Imperial City achievements. 30 dailies of easch type? Sure, that's fine. 100 Trove Scamps AND 100 of the other kind? Dreadful. One more reason Wrothgar is overall the best new content in the game, imho.

    Totally agree with what you said here.
    On one hand there's people getting 3+ helms/shoulders in a week, and on another there's people who have gotten 0 in weeks. Talk about fair

    My pledge alt (a templar healer) has significantly better luck than my main (a dk tank). Good helms, good traits and good drop rates.
    Examples: skoria light hat on her very first run back in 1.5, EG hats x2 in less than 10 runs. Got a v16 EG heavy too, recently after a long break in her first vdsc run too. My main? 20+ runs since i came back (orsinium release) and nada

    RNG in eso is not RNG. Period
    NA(PC) - EP
    - Dragon Knight Amuro X

    "Of course you're a victim... what are you going to do about it? Transcend your own suffering and be a good person!" -jbp
  • dimensional
    dimensional
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Faugaun wrote: »

    I guess my point is that there are enough sets and traits that it's not really necessary to have pittance drop rates.

    And nowhere in my post did I say that the drop rates needed to be terrible. In fact my immediately proceeding sentence says that I support it being tweaked. I simply claimed that RNG in and of itself is an inescapable aspect of RPG loot mechanics.

    which is why I think the 200 tokens for a guaranteed shoulder or helmet of (rng based) weight and trait would work to bring the level of effort vs reward to a more acceptable level without trivializing anything.

    I'd be down for a token system, sounds really nice actually.
  • Spearshard
    Spearshard
    ✭✭✭
    Tryxus wrote: »
    I'm not giving up tho

    In fact, I just found a helmet; check it out

    You sir, are a terrible human being.
  • Nikkor
    Nikkor
    ✭✭✭
    so what most of you are saying is that you agree? the drop rates are too low.

    I know good players who won't run dungeons anymore because they simply never get drops.

    this story is all too common.

    i know a guy who only pvp's now. I watched him run dark shade every 20 minutes for days! i mean a hundred runs. he never got the helm. (should not be able to happen)
    --
    side note why am i going to waste time doing writs if not to get a gold mat? doesn't have to be everyone
    Tryxus wrote: »
    I'm not giving up tho

    In fact, I just found a helmet; check it out

    yes!
  • Tryxus
    Tryxus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Spearshard wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    I'm not giving up tho

    In fact, I just found a helmet; check it out

    You sir, are a terrible human being.

    >:)
    "Imagination is a powerful force, for it is the beginning of Creation"
    Tryxus - PC/EU/DC

    CP 1100+
    Tryxus: Magicka Warden - Breton
    Tryxus Tenebrae: Magicka Nightblade - Argonian
    Lux Tryxus: Magicka Templar - Breton

    AR 32 | vDSA - vHRC HM - vAA HM - vSO HM - vMA Flawless - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS +2 - vCR

    Imaginos, a Magicka Warden pet build for PvP
  • Marcusito
    Marcusito
    ✭✭
    It is getting tedious. There is so much content in this game to cover for gear. Want Agility rings? 60 teeth on the rarest trophy drop, it got better but it is still painfully slow, at least you can still get them BoE. Monster Helms, so many dungeon runs, maybe add a trophy room to all vet dungeons with another change to get the helm, or with the key. The new WB dailies? No BoE is bad enough but a V16 character getting V15 gear, I've run these at least 100 times and still have zero Briarheart V16 drops that are usable. You provide a PvP update without updating the AP PvP rewards, ugh.

    Reforging for desirable traits with 9/9 crafters would be nice. It is just getting really old really fast, there just isn't enough time in a day to get it all done when you have to grind for gear.

    Please be more creative with getting what we want. I have about 25 pieces of Briarheart I'm going to decon because it is garbage and the other two sets I have about 3 sets of jewelry. It is getting old.
  • whsprwind
    whsprwind
    ✭✭✭
    It's apparent that ZOS thinks that it is currently working as intended
    NA(PC) - EP
    - Dragon Knight Amuro X

    "Of course you're a victim... what are you going to do about it? Transcend your own suffering and be a good person!" -jbp
  • Shadesofkin
    Shadesofkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    whsprwind wrote: »
    It's apparent that ZOS thinks that it is currently working as intended

    Yeah, probably, which is another reason the pledge system should be revamped with tokens.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    If you run in Trials and you wonder why you're not doing the sorts of damage you see on youtube videos and on forums, but you reject advice based on extensive testing, claiming "I don't agree" you're the toxic one.
  • Mettaricana
    Mettaricana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    My last desired rng drop I got was back before pc transfer I got valky skoria helmet first try ever on vr 14 coa I was ecstatic. Now almost a year later not a single helm found and still no valkyn shoulders... everything drops in orsinium at vr 15 so I gave and just craft my gear
    I'm everything that doesn't belong in the pact but i'm there anyway...
  • eldermpsmithrwb17_ESO
    I have actually created some threads on this and it has been a problem for a while, it is that bad for me that i am not even playing some content because the RNG is so bad its not worth it for me, I love the game, including the economy, and i have been playing and paying since release.

    Needs to be a balance to keep us playing the game whilst not being unfair and becoming laborious, which it is now. The content you have created is great, please incentivise it for us long term players
    Selcouth Nexus V16 Templar Magika Healer/Dps
    Mrs Schadenfreude V16 Magika Sorc Dps/off heals
    Malevolent Lust v16 DK Stam Dps/tank
    Mephala's Rage v16 NB Magika Dps
    Lara Nipplestorm v16 DK Magika DPS
  • OGLezard
    OGLezard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have actually created some threads on this and it has been a problem for a while, it is that bad for me that i am not even playing some content because the RNG is so bad its not worth it for me, I love the game, including the economy, and i have been playing and paying since release.

    Needs to be a balance to keep us playing the game whilst not being unfair and becoming laborious, which it is now. The content you have created is great, please incentivise it for us long term players

    Is it not obvious that they have, it is called BoP and RNG with no alternative means. Coming soon is unbinders in the crown store to take care of the BoP and "Monster Packs" to take care of that RNG aspect.

    Convenience items only........and wouldnt those two things just be ever so convenient??
    Edited by OGLezard on December 1, 2015 6:35AM
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Think of basic psychology.

    Intermittant reinforcement is the most profound way to get an entity to keep doing something....

    Until

    Until it gets "too low" and then you see extinction behavior - or in ESO parlance, people stop doing the behavior. Stop trying, stop running the dungeon/delve/undaunted whatever.

    Eventually if there are enough things that are "too low" they stop playing the game.

    For myself, I have a very low tolerance for crap/RNG/uncontrolled stuff. I play ESO from a pencil-and-paper game perspective, not a computer one, so I don't have ... well pretty much any patience with RNG crap.

    So for me, in order to keep enjoying play, I avoid farming. I wander, yes, but that's not the same as farming. I avoid "going to X dungeon's for drops" because I'm used to a story/RPG approach, and really really really get my feathers in a knot with a RNG approach.

    I don't fish more than 3-4 fish at a time (oddly have gotten a lot of rares with that habit - but a grand total of 2 perfect roe since they invented it).

    I don't use dropped armor, pretty much ever, UNLESS I happen to have money at the moment (rare, for me, as I decon like crazy on all my characters, and don't have riding or bank or bags maxed on anyone) and I can buy enough bits to fill out a set (and I hate browsing traders, so if I don't find it in the first two cities, I give it up).

    When the malachite/glass thing came out, I wrote it off. To date I have never found any glass motif fragments. I have a total of ... 20 malachite (and that's playing 8 characters). As I mentioned earlier, got a total of 2 perfect roe.

    Never turned in a "60 whatever" for months; then when Xivkyn came out I talked to a friend and made a deal. I'll give away my groups of 60, and if any of those rewards get a motif, I get it. Got a couple now. Got about 10-15 charcoal of remorse from compulsive deconning of everything I find in IC. I find it "matches" reasonably well with dunmer style armor. I like mixing and matching, so it's okay for now.

    I have maybe .... 4-5 dweomer pages. Total. 1 dwemer frame (deconned an item) and mayb 3-4 scraps.

    Mostly, if I tried to be at all invested in getting anything that was/is RNG dependent, I would have stopped playing ESO long ago.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (bosmer template) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Shadesofkin
    Shadesofkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    Think of basic psychology.

    Intermittant reinforcement is the most profound way to get an entity to keep doing something....

    Until

    Until it gets "too low" and then you see extinction behavior - or in ESO parlance, people stop doing the behavior. Stop trying, stop running the dungeon/delve/undaunted whatever.

    Eventually if there are enough things that are "too low" they stop playing the game.

    For myself, I have a very low tolerance for crap/RNG/uncontrolled stuff. I play ESO from a pencil-and-paper game perspective, not a computer one, so I don't have ... well pretty much any patience with RNG crap.

    So for me, in order to keep enjoying play, I avoid farming. I wander, yes, but that's not the same as farming. I avoid "going to X dungeon's for drops" because I'm used to a story/RPG approach, and really really really get my feathers in a knot with a RNG approach.

    I don't fish more than 3-4 fish at a time (oddly have gotten a lot of rares with that habit - but a grand total of 2 perfect roe since they invented it).

    I don't use dropped armor, pretty much ever, UNLESS I happen to have money at the moment (rare, for me, as I decon like crazy on all my characters, and don't have riding or bank or bags maxed on anyone) and I can buy enough bits to fill out a set (and I hate browsing traders, so if I don't find it in the first two cities, I give it up).

    When the malachite/glass thing came out, I wrote it off. To date I have never found any glass motif fragments. I have a total of ... 20 malachite (and that's playing 8 characters). As I mentioned earlier, got a total of 2 perfect roe.

    Never turned in a "60 whatever" for months; then when Xivkyn came out I talked to a friend and made a deal. I'll give away my groups of 60, and if any of those rewards get a motif, I get it. Got a couple now. Got about 10-15 charcoal of remorse from compulsive deconning of everything I find in IC. I find it "matches" reasonably well with dunmer style armor. I like mixing and matching, so it's okay for now.

    I have maybe .... 4-5 dweomer pages. Total. 1 dwemer frame (deconned an item) and mayb 3-4 scraps.

    Mostly, if I tried to be at all invested in getting anything that was/is RNG dependent, I would have stopped playing ESO long ago.

    I tend to play from a pen and paper approach as well, but as a fellow GM I'm infuriated with what I consider newb moves on the part of the guy running the campaign. I respected that he had much to learn at the beginning, but now we're going into our 2nd year of the game and we're still dealing with his weaker choices, what really bugs me is that this "GM" isn't asking anyone for advice or if he is, it's the wrong questions.

    That all beings said, from the video game perspective: I do farm, I do put in effort to do specific dungeons because of loot drops, and like the other players who are getting frustrated, I'm getting a tad worn out from the lack of fruit produced by my effort.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    If you run in Trials and you wonder why you're not doing the sorts of damage you see on youtube videos and on forums, but you reject advice based on extensive testing, claiming "I don't agree" you're the toxic one.
  • robkrush
    robkrush
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    I don't fish more than 3-4 fish at a time (oddly have gotten a lot of rares with that habit - but a grand total of 2 perfect roe since they invented it).

    So you're the S.O.B. starting all the fishing holes and not finishing them (so they repawn fully stocked). Get him boys! :wink:
    Edited by robkrush on December 1, 2015 5:07PM
    PS4-NA-DC
    PSN: robkrush

    The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.
    ZOS, 1-12-2016
  • Celas_Dranacea
    Celas_Dranacea
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If u get naked and /pray before walking up to the chest it improves your chances of shoulder drop by about 30%
    A Bosmer Nightblade Werewolf
  • lordrichter
    lordrichter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have given up.

    I have found that I was spending the bulk of my game time chasing the RNG and was not even doing Wrothgar quests. Now that I have stripped out the bulk of that work, I have a lot more time. Unfortunately, the time was not invested in ESO, but another game. Looks like my ESO Plus subscription will outlast my game play.
    PC North America since March 2014
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say NO to Crown Crates! Don't buy what they give for free.
    I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 196, so far!

  • Tyr
    Tyr
    ✭✭✭✭
    Phinix1 wrote: »
    And there goes the group dungeon population...

    Well in all honesty, if forcing people into a miserable RNG grind they HATE was the only thing dragging people into dungeons in the first place, the game was in a sorry state and poised to fail.

    Clearly to save dungeon population requires better incentive, like a TOKEN SYSTEM which people have been nagging ZOS for over the past... YEAR? Yet to hear any response on that but just because twisting a kid's arm gets them to give their lunch money doesn't mean it is a practical long-term solution!

    But that's another topic.

    ;)

    I am all for it if they add a token system then.

    I have a feeling they will be implementing a token system for PvE gear very soon with one of the upcoming DLC's.

    There's no technical reason why they can't do it because they did for Tel Var Stones already.

    I think they may be waiting for when they remove vet ranks to do something like that because it would make the most sense with Champion Point restricted gear.
  • Shadesofkin
    Shadesofkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    With Tel Var Stones, Embers, Shackles, and the other Trophies, it's obvious they know how to do a token system for gear. I keep hoping they'll realize this is a good way to go and keep it up.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
    Tier 2 Player.
    If you run in Trials and you wonder why you're not doing the sorts of damage you see on youtube videos and on forums, but you reject advice based on extensive testing, claiming "I don't agree" you're the toxic one.
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    robkrush wrote: »
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    I don't fish more than 3-4 fish at a time (oddly have gotten a lot of rares with that habit - but a grand total of 2 perfect roe since they invented it).

    So you're the S.O.B. starting all the fishing holes and not finishing them (so they repawn fully stocked). Get him boys! :wink:

    ??? never heard of this.

    Also 'her' not 'him'.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (bosmer template) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Justice31st
    Justice31st
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    With Tel Var Stones, Embers, Shackles, and the other Trophies, it's obvious they know how to do a token system for gear. I keep hoping they'll realize this is a good way to go and keep it up.

    ^This.
    "The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."
  • Tankqull
    Tankqull
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    With Tel Var Stones, Embers, Shackles, and the other Trophies, it's obvious they know how to do a token system for gear. I keep hoping they'll realize this is a good way to go and keep it up.

    ^This.

    with compleatly broken drop rates for one of the sets while you are drowning in one other with the 3rd beeing avarage ... yeah they perfectly know what they are doin´...

































    not.
    Edited by Tankqull on December 2, 2015 12:14PM
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • Justice31st
    Justice31st
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tankqull wrote: »
    With Tel Var Stones, Embers, Shackles, and the other Trophies, it's obvious they know how to do a token system for gear. I keep hoping they'll realize this is a good way to go and keep it up.

    ^This.

    with compleatly broken drop rates for one of the sets while you are drowning in one other with the 3rd beeing avarage ... yeah they perfectly know what they are doin´...
































    not.

    Yea I am aware of the current bad drop rates. We are talking about ESO's current trophy reward system and how it correlates with a token system that many people are asking to replace the current RNG system with...
    Edited by Justice31st on December 2, 2015 12:23PM
    "The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."
  • willymchilybily
    willymchilybily
    ✭✭✭✭
    for me orsinium is the worst reward system they have ever done, and the best reward system the have done is the IC trophy chests and vendors. (not the IC pledge/dungeon trophies)
    IC:
    You need to kill and play and collect your trophy eg. monster teeth. When you open the chest up you have 2 items and sometimes a motif on top, its all purple and level appropriate, BUT it is a reasonable grind to achieve it

    Weapons can come in all varieties (agility staff boo) so the RNG is high especially with jewlery too, but weapons tend to have good traits its not a duff trait 80% of the time so between the two drops one of them is likely to be useful even if its not ideal for your particular build.

    whilst you are doing this grind you earn additional currency. This currency can buy you sets via two options.:
    1. buy a bag from the set you want with an RNG reward (item and trait RNG)
    2. buy the piece you want for more but the trait is pre-decided (eg. impenetrable on phoenix)

    This give you enough reward to feel it was worth the grind. to think even if you get a weapon or piece you didn't want its still a good piece. and if you use RNG bags and dont get what you want you can pay a bit more and buy the piece you are after. and you can also continue to grind for the "perfect set" whilst still already having your set and loot so not being at a disadvantage because you cant get the gear you need. and by grinding you feel you are actually "earning" your set.

    Orsinium:
    what they have done with orsinium is lock loot behind several RNG gates more than previously (level/quality, drop chance, trait, item) and "drop chance" is lowered also because there are 2 other possible sets or even the potential for nothing. And then on top of this, the sets i actually think are best this DLC (trinimacs valor, briarheart, mark of the pariah) are also stuck behind time gates (dailys) and all gear is BOP. You cant even grind for the gear because you have nothing to grind for those last 3 sets. Time based Loot gates + RNG = Too Much time to get sets, and no feeling of "earning" as its all RNG and time based loot gates

    Its a scale of magnitude outside what it should be.
    Edited by willymchilybily on December 2, 2015 12:53PM
    PSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart Pact
    Dragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - Stormproof
    Night Blade [Magicka] - 720 - Stormproof
    Sorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless Conqueror
    Templar [Magicka] - 720 - Stormproof
    Dragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - Stormproof
    Night Blade [Stamina] - 720 - Stormproof
    Sorcerer [Stamina] - 720
  • SemiD4rkness
    SemiD4rkness
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tryxus wrote: »
    I'm not giving up tho

    In fact, I just found a helmet; check it out

    Can't believe I fell for this rofl
    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."
  • robkrush
    robkrush
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    robkrush wrote: »
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    I don't fish more than 3-4 fish at a time (oddly have gotten a lot of rares with that habit - but a grand total of 2 perfect roe since they invented it).

    So you're the S.O.B. starting all the fishing holes and not finishing them (so they repawn fully stocked). Get him boys! :wink:

    ??? never heard of this.

    Also 'her' not 'him'.

    There are 15 fish in each hole when they are new. The game actually tracks how many fish are left. When the hole gets fished out a new one spawns after a few minutes. Pretty sad that I know that but Ive done my share of fishing. :smiley:
    PS4-NA-DC
    PSN: robkrush

    The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.
    ZOS, 1-12-2016
  • reften
    reften
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah with the amount of questing in this game, and a push to nerf Craglorn grinding, any grind spots...then Zos puts in these RNG things, and IC/V16 equipment grinds...seems weird.

    I honestly don't mind a grind. But I estimated 12 hours to grind out mats to make a 5 piece V16 set. No...thanks.

    Those two piece sets? Not a chance. Maelstorm arena? No thanks, master weapons from top 2% in pvp? No chance.

    I play to pvp, I played the RNG game with shadow walker items as the one thing I have is AP, which is now worthless, so far the thing I play this game for is strickly pvp in cyrodiil, and NOTHING has been changed/added since I start playing in 5 day early release besides removing FCs and tweaking skills.

    Craglorn no thanks, IC no thanks, Legerdemane was fun for a week, Wrothgar no thanks, trials no thanks.

    Guess MMOs are just not right for me, except, Cyrodiil pvp is still the most fun of any game. But, lost faith now that it's been so many months and nothing has improve/changed.

    MMOs = RNG and grinding, started with jboots in EQ and is no different today. Oh well
    Reften
    Bosmer (Wood Elf)
    Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild

    VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.

    Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.

    Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.

    Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.
Sign In or Register to comment.