Someone edit that quote string and remove my name, I keep coming back here expecting more poo slung at me.
I just had to take some breaths and mentally prepare myself because I saw "AbraXuSeXile mentioned you" and was expecting the worst.
How much do the smaller groups see siege being fired at them on flags within keeps at the moment? From my own experience leading groups I find normally we can't get anyone to place siege a a defence and if we do it's just one fire ballista. The meatbags tend to come from randoms also within the keep if we ever get one.
I haven't been around the last weeks (because Fallout) and I know Torsten has a heavy favour on siege weapons but from my own experience it's not been something we actively use once inside and fighting for flags.
Erondil makes a good point with flags becoming death zones now which might be something ZOS want to consider.
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Hey gang!
[*] All side effects from siege weapons (snare, healing taken reduction, siege damage increase taken) are no longer purgable.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
Why do you hate small groups so much? This will make it even harder for groups that arent 24 man raids. You should promote smaller groups, not destroy them.
Remember from it's original design the main aspect of Cyrodiil PvP is about keep battles with hundreds of players. Siege weapons should be balanced around large scale battles for keeps because that's when they're seen most.
Small gang PvP shouldn't be based around keeps but have other areas where it flourishes. Sandbox PvP (which Cyrodiil emulates) is about each group and style finding its place within the sandbox and playing with the tools the developers give them in the most effective way. ZOS shouldn't have a stance one way or the other on which style of gameplay should be played.
Spoken like a true zergling
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Hey gang!
[*] All side effects from siege weapons (snare, healing taken reduction, siege damage increase taken) are no longer purgable.
There fixed it and also - way to *** the game more by promoting larger grps some more.
I wonder, have u ever played your game?
Once again update that breaks more then fixes - ZoS hold up to its name! Yes!
Someone edit that quote string and remove my name, I keep coming back here expecting more poo slung at me.
I just had to take some breaths and mentally prepare myself because I saw "AbraXuSeXile mentioned you" and was expecting the worst.
How much do the smaller groups see siege being fired at them on flags within keeps at the moment? From my own experience leading groups I find normally we can't get anyone to place siege a a defence and if we do it's just one fire ballista. The meatbags tend to come from randoms also within the keep if we ever get one.
I haven't been around the last weeks (because Fallout) and I know Torsten has a heavy favour on siege weapons but from my own experience it's not been something we actively use once inside and fighting for flags.
Erondil makes a good point with flags becoming death zones now which might be something ZOS want to consider.
At some point we are literally sieged by everywhere. Meatbags and ballista/trebuchets from outside the breach, oils on every postern and oil over the main gate flag. Actually most of the time we wipe is because people keep ressing in our back and put sieges everywhere (though 1 siege doesnt do much true). We usually have one group mate going upfloor to clear oils etc (me or some other nb mostly) but when there are 4+ ppl up one of us cant clear it fast enough (and if the whole group goes up, they will get ressed as soon as we go back on the flags).
I wonder, have u ever played your game?
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Hey gang!
[*] All side effects from siege weapons (snare, healing taken reduction, siege damage increase taken) are no longer purgable.
There fixed it and also - way to *** the game more by promoting larger grps some more.
I wonder, have u ever played your game?
Once again update that breaks more then fixes - ZoS hold up to its name! Yes!
Try taking the time to make a post which actually explains you case if you want them to listen. Giving a "this is horrible" and then throwing some insults isn't going to help them realise the part which is bad for you and how it is. That's the entire issue with this game community, you claim they don't listen but give then nothing to actually listen to, how does your post in any way help them?Someone edit that quote string and remove my name, I keep coming back here expecting more poo slung at me.
I just had to take some breaths and mentally prepare myself because I saw "AbraXuSeXile mentioned you" and was expecting the worst.
How much do the smaller groups see siege being fired at them on flags within keeps at the moment? From my own experience leading groups I find normally we can't get anyone to place siege a a defence and if we do it's just one fire ballista. The meatbags tend to come from randoms also within the keep if we ever get one.
I haven't been around the last weeks (because Fallout) and I know Torsten has a heavy favour on siege weapons but from my own experience it's not been something we actively use once inside and fighting for flags.
Erondil makes a good point with flags becoming death zones now which might be something ZOS want to consider.
At some point we are literally sieged by everywhere. Meatbags and ballista/trebuchets from outside the breach, oils on every postern and oil over the main gate flag. Actually most of the time we wipe is because people keep ressing in our back and put sieges everywhere (though 1 siege doesnt do much true). We usually have one group mate going upfloor to clear oils etc (me or some other nb mostly) but when there are 4+ ppl up one of us cant clear it fast enough (and if the whole group goes up, they will get ressed as soon as we go back on the flags).
Thanks for the write up. I have noticed the same issues myself leading where we can't keep up with people resurrecting and hold flags at the same time, I can imagine the hell of that for smaller groups.
I am not really sure of a fix for that which doesn't just benefit larger groups as well.
I had thought about the idea of not being able to place sieges (other than oils) within a keeps interior but then you just give the bomb trains the same defences vs these changes (which currently along with AoE cap removal would harm them).
Maybe this is something which could be addressed on a skill level, have the two purge morphs be one for AoE general cleansing and the other for a self target (or single target smart heal) removal. This would however require all group members to sacrifice a skill to defend against a single weapon though if self only.
I do feel that this is something @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @Wrobel need to sit down together and find a way which the skills and siege changes compliment one another better.
newtinmpls wrote: »
RIP small/medium sized grps with that healing debuff. I guess ZOS really wants ppl to stack up hardcore so even rthe biggest idiots who have no clue what they are doing survives bc of numbers.
It is always nice to see that ZOS does not even bother asking experienced ppl about such changes
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Adjusted several abilities to improve the performance in Cyrodiil. The following abilities or item set abilities will now only apply their buffs to allies who are in your group, rather than all nearby allies:
Exploitation
Hemorrhage
Illuminate
Meritorious Service
Mountain’s Blessing
Powerful Assault
Restoring Aura
Radiant Aura
Restoring Twilight
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Adjusted several abilities to improve the performance in Cyrodiil. The following abilities or item set abilities will now only apply their buffs to allies who are in your group, rather than all nearby allies:
Exploitation
Hemorrhage
Illuminate
Meritorious Service
Mountain’s Blessing
Powerful Assault
Restoring Aura
Radiant Aura
Restoring Twilight
@ZOS_BrianWheeler can you clarify please what is meant with group?! Is that the small group (ie. 4 person group) or does that extend to large groups aswell?!
WillhelmBlack wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »@ZOS_BrianWheeler
Why do you hate small groups so much? This will make it even harder for groups that arent 24 man raids. You should promote smaller groups, not destroy them.
i keep seeing this. please explain how this hurts small groups? This is a tool for small groups to use to break up the larger groups and spread them out. it also allows small groups to defend a keep against ball groups. How does this hurt small groups?
20 man, small Zerg vs 6 man group, 2 tanky characters at front to apply CC's, 3 DD's and a healer. Out in the open field, which group do you think has someone spare to put up siege?
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Adjusted several abilities to improve the performance in Cyrodiil. The following abilities or item set abilities will now only apply their buffs to allies who are in your group, rather than all nearby allies:
Exploitation
Hemorrhage
Illuminate
Meritorious Service
Mountain’s Blessing
Powerful Assault
Restoring Aura
Radiant Aura
Restoring Twilight
@ZOS_BrianWheeler can you clarify please what is meant with group?! Is that the small group (ie. 4 person group) or does that extend to large groups aswell?!
My guess would be rather than applying to the closet/random players around you the player must be in your group. Otherwise all limits on numbers/ranges would still apply.
However developer confirmation would be good.
ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Adjusted several abilities to improve the performance in Cyrodiil. The following abilities or item set abilities will now only apply their buffs to allies who are in your group, rather than all nearby allies:
Exploitation
Hemorrhage
Illuminate
Meritorious Service
Mountain’s Blessing
Powerful Assault
Restoring Aura
Radiant Aura
Restoring Twilight
RIP small/medium sized grps with that healing debuff. I guess ZOS really wants ppl to stack up hardcore so even rthe biggest idiots who have no clue what they are doing survives bc of numbers.
It is always nice to see that ZOS does not even bother asking experienced ppl about such changes
Stacking up with these changes (more so if also augmented by AoE cap changes) would be the dumbest counter possible.
Also what do you think this thread is for if not for asking experienced people about changes, sadly however it seems the "experienced" people only have time to post "OMG CHANGE!!! I HATE CHANGE!!! RIP ESO!!! FU ZOS!!!"
RIP small/medium sized grps with that healing debuff. I guess ZOS really wants ppl to stack up hardcore so even rthe biggest idiots who have no clue what they are doing survives bc of numbers.
It is always nice to see that ZOS does not even bother asking experienced ppl about such changes
Stacking up with these changes (more so if also augmented by AoE cap changes) would be the dumbest counter possible.
Also what do you think this thread is for if not for asking experienced people about changes, sadly however it seems the "experienced" people only have time to post "OMG CHANGE!!! I HATE CHANGE!!! RIP ESO!!! FU ZOS!!!"
I already know they will not listen to ppl anyway although they say so haha. But dont worry, you will ge your new vanity pet in crownstore soon!!!
You know, it's actually no wonder PvP is in such a terrible place when the entire of this thread became poop slinging within two pages.
Get over the ego and epeen and start giving constructive feedback and criticism with theory crafting and numbers aimed at ZOS or debunking other numbers rather than...
ZERG BAD!!! SMALL GROUP BAD!! ZERG BAD!!! SMALL GROUP BAD!!! as a PvP community we're pretty pathetic.
You're not playing any objectives then. I don't know how much you should comment on siege if it barely affects you. You won't be able to take a keep without significantly outnumbering the enemy. That's adding to lag (as it did when the buff happened and we predicted it would). Maybe it happened differently on EU, idk. The way to make you useful in a small group is to equalize player combat instead of forcing people to sit on siege and press left click.
Pretty much all EU people complaining about this change run in group of 8-14. On the other hand @Turelus who seems to approve this change is well known to run 24 man guild blob, and more than often decides to stack up to 3 raids with another guild. Just stating fact you know
mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »You're not playing any objectives then. I don't know how much you should comment on siege if it barely affects you. You won't be able to take a keep without significantly outnumbering the enemy. That's adding to lag (as it did when the buff happened and we predicted it would). Maybe it happened differently on EU, idk. The way to make you useful in a small group is to equalize player combat instead of forcing people to sit on siege and press left click.
I think much of the misunderstanding comes from the interpretation of what a small group is and I'll elaborate on this a bit later.
Regarding me playing the objectives, of course nowhere near as much as medium or large groups do but I still play the map . Which means if I see the AD zerg (by zerg I mean large numbers of ungrouped randoms) are heading to re-take Roebeck, I will naturally take my group north of Roe either at the farm or at Nikel to get small fights out of the DC reinforcements. That's still part of the Cyrodiil PvP and I'm still doing my bit for the faction by delaying the adds getting to the siege.
With 3-4 people I can't take and hold keeps, and I don't expect to. The structure I usually hold (if any) is a resource. I will occasionally help the zerg defend or take a keep if I see the cause is not lost (i.e. they are not up against organised ball groups).
My experience of the previous siege buff was that it made defense of keeps by randoms easier, because they sieged the living hell out of bomb squads. Many attackers died (especially if the attackers were also a disorganized zerg) which meant more people respawning and running back, more people spread across the map and more people for me to kill in-between the transit lines or at the resources.Pretty much all EU people complaining about this change run in group of 8-14. On the other hand @Turelus who seems to approve this change is well known to run 24 man guild blob, and more than often decides to stack up to 3 raids with another guild. Just stating fact you know
Well, this is what it boils down to. I personally don't find a group of 8-14 a small group. You can say that's a medium group because it's not a large perhaps, but it's certainly not small. It's not small because it doesn't behave like a small group.
Like I said, If your group is truly small (<5) the way you approach combat is very different. You kite and move, you bomb then run, you sometimes completely spread out to survive a chase by a larger group, but you certainly don't try and hold any large structures.
I see many people here, who play small groups or solo and they are saying that this won't affect them as much. Medium groups like you guys will receive more punishment and large groups even more so. The bigger the group the more negatively they are impacted. Which is why I don't find it as bad. Though I do want to check those snares and heal debuffs on PTS before I give my blessing. The higher damage, the caps on Purge/Barrier and the drain on magicka/stamina are all absolutely fine by me.
mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »That is a very astute observation, that he's trying to fix Wrobel's problem. And it's not the most elegant of solutions, agreed, but I still believe it's better than what we've currently got.Having 0 control over your own character is not fun or engaging gameplay. That's why the break free system exists, and why Purge and other spells like it even exist in the game at all. You're trying to fix Wrobel's problem for him in some roundabout way that makes no sense.
Yes losing control of your char is frustrating. Getting rooted and silenced (which is for all intends and purposes same as getting stunned) with every gap closer was the single most infuriating and idiotic change thus far. So why do I not think so badly over even more irresistible CC?
On that note... Brian said that siege CC wouldn't be purgeable, but did he ever say that you won't be able to break free from it yourself? Or can you not do that now anyway?The buffs to siege damage are good. The addition of magicka and stamina drain is good. Unpurgeable debuffs is awful. Six seconds is a long [...] time. Especially for classes with no mobility... Once you're stuck, you're dead as Mano observed.
kylewwefan wrote: »I have no idea what any of this means? Would be nice to be able to fast travel to imperial city without having to run 10 minutes through cyrodil. It would also be good to be able to do cyrodil quests without getting one shotted and starting off back on the other side of the map half hour away.