Maintenance for the week of December 23:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)

Upcoming siege changes in next major update

  • Erondil
    Erondil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Turelus wrote: »
    Someone edit that quote string and remove my name, I keep coming back here expecting more poo slung at me.

    I just had to take some breaths and mentally prepare myself because I saw "AbraXuSeXile mentioned you" and was expecting the worst.

    How much do the smaller groups see siege being fired at them on flags within keeps at the moment? From my own experience leading groups I find normally we can't get anyone to place siege a a defence and if we do it's just one fire ballista. The meatbags tend to come from randoms also within the keep if we ever get one.

    I haven't been around the last weeks (because Fallout) and I know Torsten has a heavy favour on siege weapons but from my own experience it's not been something we actively use once inside and fighting for flags.

    Erondil makes a good point with flags becoming death zones now which might be something ZOS want to consider.

    At some point we are literally sieged by everywhere. Meatbags and ballista/trebuchets from outside the breach, oils on every postern and oil over the main gate flag. Actually most of the time we wipe is because people keep ressing in our back and put sieges everywhere (though 1 siege doesnt do much true). We usually have one group mate going upfloor to clear oils etc (me or some other nb mostly) but when there are 4+ ppl up one of us cant clear it fast enough (and if the whole group goes up, they will get ressed as soon as we go back on the flags).
    ~retired~
    EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
    Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
    rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
    Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
    Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
    Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
    Youtube Channel
  • RDMyers65b14_ESO
    RDMyers65b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    First of all, since when have pugs ever brought siege to the fight? Just today, I was sieging a keep by myself while 6 pugs stood around and did nothing to help. Of course, after I brought down the walls, they were quick to rush the flags and claim the keep. Usually, they don't bother with sieging or if you are running multiple siege, they will steal one. *facepalm*

    Overall, I like the changes but one. As a healer, I have to disagree with completely unpurgable damage. I can see placing a cap on the number of people who are purged but to make all the damage unpurgable is a bit extreme. I would like to hear the answer to the question of if siege shield would work against the unpurgable damage. Right now, I rarely use the skill because it is more effective to use purge than to put up the siege shield.

    It is still early and it has not hit the PTS yet so I am going to take the wait and see approach. ZOS has said that it is subject to change.

    It would make sense to have a new skill line for siege weapons.
  • Raizin
    Raizin
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hey gang!


    [*] All side effects from siege weapons (snare, healing taken reduction, siege damage increase taken) are no longer purgable.

    There fixed it and also - way to *** the game more by promoting larger grps some more.

    I wonder, have u ever played your game?

    Once again update that breaks more then fixes - ZoS hold up to its name! Yes!
    HellSeesYou = v16/AD/Rank 37-Former emp/EU TB-AZura(Old Auriels Bow badass) ___ Vampire Templar/Resto/Destro staff user from Banana squad
    HellSeesAll - v16/EP/Rank 19 Magicka NB/Necrotic Lag member
    HellSeesUs - v16/AD/Rank 18 Stamina Templar
  • Raizin
    Raizin
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nafirian wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Sanct16 wrote: »
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    Why do you hate small groups so much? This will make it even harder for groups that arent 24 man raids. You should promote smaller groups, not destroy them.

    Remember from it's original design the main aspect of Cyrodiil PvP is about keep battles with hundreds of players. Siege weapons should be balanced around large scale battles for keeps because that's when they're seen most.

    Small gang PvP shouldn't be based around keeps but have other areas where it flourishes. Sandbox PvP (which Cyrodiil emulates) is about each group and style finding its place within the sandbox and playing with the tools the developers give them in the most effective way. ZOS shouldn't have a stance one way or the other on which style of gameplay should be played.

    Spoken like a true zergling
    0mKXcg1.gif

    post-33740-hes-absolutely-right-gif-mugat-UBhO.gif

    MUST ZERG
    HellSeesYou = v16/AD/Rank 37-Former emp/EU TB-AZura(Old Auriels Bow badass) ___ Vampire Templar/Resto/Destro staff user from Banana squad
    HellSeesAll - v16/EP/Rank 19 Magicka NB/Necrotic Lag member
    HellSeesUs - v16/AD/Rank 18 Stamina Templar
  • Sotha_Sil
    Sotha_Sil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Turelus I think the issue stated by smaller groups here is that with these changes (unpurgeable stuff), enemy randoms will be able to put some sieges and the players won't be able to counter it by their skills meaning that in any case, skills won't matter anymore but instead you will simply need numbers to win. (when attacking a keep)
    Edited by Sotha_Sil on December 1, 2015 10:13AM
    Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! - Spells and incantations for those with the talent to cast them!
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Raizin wrote: »
    Hey gang!


    [*] All side effects from siege weapons (snare, healing taken reduction, siege damage increase taken) are no longer purgable.

    There fixed it and also - way to *** the game more by promoting larger grps some more.

    I wonder, have u ever played your game?

    Once again update that breaks more then fixes - ZoS hold up to its name! Yes!

    Try taking the time to make a post which actually explains you case if you want them to listen. Giving a "this is horrible" and then throwing some insults isn't going to help them realise the part which is bad for you and how it is. That's the entire issue with this game community, you claim they don't listen but give then nothing to actually listen to, how does your post in any way help them?
    Erondil wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Someone edit that quote string and remove my name, I keep coming back here expecting more poo slung at me.

    I just had to take some breaths and mentally prepare myself because I saw "AbraXuSeXile mentioned you" and was expecting the worst.

    How much do the smaller groups see siege being fired at them on flags within keeps at the moment? From my own experience leading groups I find normally we can't get anyone to place siege a a defence and if we do it's just one fire ballista. The meatbags tend to come from randoms also within the keep if we ever get one.

    I haven't been around the last weeks (because Fallout) and I know Torsten has a heavy favour on siege weapons but from my own experience it's not been something we actively use once inside and fighting for flags.

    Erondil makes a good point with flags becoming death zones now which might be something ZOS want to consider.

    At some point we are literally sieged by everywhere. Meatbags and ballista/trebuchets from outside the breach, oils on every postern and oil over the main gate flag. Actually most of the time we wipe is because people keep ressing in our back and put sieges everywhere (though 1 siege doesnt do much true). We usually have one group mate going upfloor to clear oils etc (me or some other nb mostly) but when there are 4+ ppl up one of us cant clear it fast enough (and if the whole group goes up, they will get ressed as soon as we go back on the flags).

    Thanks for the write up. I have noticed the same issues myself leading where we can't keep up with people resurrecting and hold flags at the same time, I can imagine the hell of that for smaller groups.

    I am not really sure of a fix for that which doesn't just benefit larger groups as well.

    I had thought about the idea of not being able to place sieges (other than oils) within a keeps interior but then you just give the bomb trains the same defences vs these changes (which currently along with AoE cap removal would harm them).
    Maybe this is something which could be addressed on a skill level, have the two purge morphs be one for AoE general cleansing and the other for a self target (or single target smart heal) removal. This would however require all group members to sacrifice a skill to defend against a single weapon though if self only.

    I do feel that this is something @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @Wrobel need to sit down together and find a way which the skills and siege changes compliment one another better.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Draxys
    Draxys
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I don't think the changes are necessarily bad, but... Here we go with elder sieges online again =/
    2013

    rip decibel
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Raizin wrote: »
    I wonder, have u ever played your game?

    I'm beginning to think ... not.

    I don't see "well the PTS testing revealed X, so we are making changes that address it"

    I don't see peeps who play on PTS talking about their feedback/input being listened to.

    Am I missing that?
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Jitterbug
    Jitterbug
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Draxys wrote: »
    I don't think the changes are necessarily bad, but... Here we go with elder sieges online again =/

    I miss the old sieges though. Hoping this will work out well.
  • Raizin
    Raizin
    ✭✭✭✭
    Turelus wrote: »
    Raizin wrote: »
    Hey gang!


    [*] All side effects from siege weapons (snare, healing taken reduction, siege damage increase taken) are no longer purgable.

    There fixed it and also - way to *** the game more by promoting larger grps some more.

    I wonder, have u ever played your game?

    Once again update that breaks more then fixes - ZoS hold up to its name! Yes!

    Try taking the time to make a post which actually explains you case if you want them to listen. Giving a "this is horrible" and then throwing some insults isn't going to help them realise the part which is bad for you and how it is. That's the entire issue with this game community, you claim they don't listen but give then nothing to actually listen to, how does your post in any way help them?
    Erondil wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Someone edit that quote string and remove my name, I keep coming back here expecting more poo slung at me.

    I just had to take some breaths and mentally prepare myself because I saw "AbraXuSeXile mentioned you" and was expecting the worst.

    How much do the smaller groups see siege being fired at them on flags within keeps at the moment? From my own experience leading groups I find normally we can't get anyone to place siege a a defence and if we do it's just one fire ballista. The meatbags tend to come from randoms also within the keep if we ever get one.

    I haven't been around the last weeks (because Fallout) and I know Torsten has a heavy favour on siege weapons but from my own experience it's not been something we actively use once inside and fighting for flags.

    Erondil makes a good point with flags becoming death zones now which might be something ZOS want to consider.

    At some point we are literally sieged by everywhere. Meatbags and ballista/trebuchets from outside the breach, oils on every postern and oil over the main gate flag. Actually most of the time we wipe is because people keep ressing in our back and put sieges everywhere (though 1 siege doesnt do much true). We usually have one group mate going upfloor to clear oils etc (me or some other nb mostly) but when there are 4+ ppl up one of us cant clear it fast enough (and if the whole group goes up, they will get ressed as soon as we go back on the flags).

    Thanks for the write up. I have noticed the same issues myself leading where we can't keep up with people resurrecting and hold flags at the same time, I can imagine the hell of that for smaller groups.

    I am not really sure of a fix for that which doesn't just benefit larger groups as well.

    I had thought about the idea of not being able to place sieges (other than oils) within a keeps interior but then you just give the bomb trains the same defences vs these changes (which currently along with AoE cap removal would harm them).
    Maybe this is something which could be addressed on a skill level, have the two purge morphs be one for AoE general cleansing and the other for a self target (or single target smart heal) removal. This would however require all group members to sacrifice a skill to defend against a single weapon though if self only.

    I do feel that this is something @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @Wrobel need to sit down together and find a way which the skills and siege changes compliment one another better.

    alrdy gave up on that.

    Theres for example a thread about aoe caps with thousands of reviews and hundreds of constructive posts. Did any of it made it to the game? NO.

    So why bother?
    newtinmpls wrote: »
    Raizin wrote: »
    I wonder, have u ever played your game?

    I'm beginning to think ... not.

    I don't see "well the PTS testing revealed X, so we are making changes that address it"

    I don't see peeps who play on PTS talking about their feedback/input being listened to.

    Am I missing that?

    exactly this _
    Edited by Raizin on December 1, 2015 10:50AM
    HellSeesYou = v16/AD/Rank 37-Former emp/EU TB-AZura(Old Auriels Bow badass) ___ Vampire Templar/Resto/Destro staff user from Banana squad
    HellSeesAll - v16/EP/Rank 19 Magicka NB/Necrotic Lag member
    HellSeesUs - v16/AD/Rank 18 Stamina Templar
  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    RIP small/medium sized grps with that healing debuff. I guess ZOS really wants ppl to stack up hardcore so even rthe biggest idiots who have no clue what they are doing survives bc of numbers.

    It is always nice to see that ZOS does not even bother asking experienced ppl about such changes <3
    Edited by Alcast on December 1, 2015 10:59AM
    https://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
    https://eso-hub.com - ESO-Hub.com Sets, Skills, Guides & News
    https://dwemerautomaton.com - Discord, Telegram & Twitch Command Bot



  • Turelus
    Turelus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Alcast wrote: »
    RIP small/medium sized grps with that healing debuff. I guess ZOS really wants ppl to stack up hardcore so even rthe biggest idiots who have no clue what they are doing survives bc of numbers.

    It is always nice to see that ZOS does not even bother asking experienced ppl about such changes <3

    Stacking up with these changes (more so if also augmented by AoE cap changes) would be the dumbest counter possible.

    Also what do you think this thread is for if not for asking experienced people about changes, sadly however it seems the "experienced" people only have time to post "OMG CHANGE!!! I HATE CHANGE!!! RIP ESO!!! FU ZOS!!!" :tongue:
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Adjusted several abilities to improve the performance in Cyrodiil. The following abilities or item set abilities will now only apply their buffs to allies who are in your group, rather than all nearby allies:

    Exploitation
    Hemorrhage
    Illuminate
    Meritorious Service
    Mountain’s Blessing
    Powerful Assault
    Restoring Aura
    Radiant Aura
    Restoring Twilight

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler can you clarify please what is meant with group?! Is that the small group (ie. 4 person group) or does that extend to large groups aswell?!
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Adjusted several abilities to improve the performance in Cyrodiil. The following abilities or item set abilities will now only apply their buffs to allies who are in your group, rather than all nearby allies:

    Exploitation
    Hemorrhage
    Illuminate
    Meritorious Service
    Mountain’s Blessing
    Powerful Assault
    Restoring Aura
    Radiant Aura
    Restoring Twilight

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler can you clarify please what is meant with group?! Is that the small group (ie. 4 person group) or does that extend to large groups aswell?!

    My guess would be rather than applying to the closet/random players around you the player must be in your group. Otherwise all limits on numbers/ranges would still apply.

    However developer confirmation would be good.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    Sanct16 wrote: »
    @ZOS_BrianWheeler
    Why do you hate small groups so much? This will make it even harder for groups that arent 24 man raids. You should promote smaller groups, not destroy them.

    i keep seeing this. please explain how this hurts small groups? This is a tool for small groups to use to break up the larger groups and spread them out. it also allows small groups to defend a keep against ball groups. How does this hurt small groups?

    20 man, small Zerg vs 6 man group, 2 tanky characters at front to apply CC's, 3 DD's and a healer. Out in the open field, which group do you think has someone spare to put up siege?

    Why do you stand in the same spot long enough for them to:
    - put up the siege
    - aim it
    - hit you with it

    I'd think 6 people would be mobile enough to prevent that scenario.

    All the doom stories of this affecting open world fights seem somewhat silly.. as if people can't move while they are in the open.
  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Turelus wrote: »
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Adjusted several abilities to improve the performance in Cyrodiil. The following abilities or item set abilities will now only apply their buffs to allies who are in your group, rather than all nearby allies:

    Exploitation
    Hemorrhage
    Illuminate
    Meritorious Service
    Mountain’s Blessing
    Powerful Assault
    Restoring Aura
    Radiant Aura
    Restoring Twilight

    @ZOS_BrianWheeler can you clarify please what is meant with group?! Is that the small group (ie. 4 person group) or does that extend to large groups aswell?!

    My guess would be rather than applying to the closet/random players around you the player must be in your group. Otherwise all limits on numbers/ranges would still apply.

    However developer confirmation would be good.

    Yes but there's 4 player groups and there are large groups (what is it again.. 24 ppl? forgot..).. and with large groups, I don't mean solo's near eachother.. I mean actually grouped up and seen as a group by the game.

  • Jitterbug
    Jitterbug
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Adjusted several abilities to improve the performance in Cyrodiil. The following abilities or item set abilities will now only apply their buffs to allies who are in your group, rather than all nearby allies:

    Exploitation
    Hemorrhage
    Illuminate
    Meritorious Service
    Mountain’s Blessing
    Powerful Assault
    Restoring Aura
    Radiant Aura
    Restoring Twilight

    I have an inexplicable bad feeling in my gut about this change. A lot of the great dynamic in Cyro, and the game at large, comes from on-the-fly "grouping" without the need for UI interaction.
    However, if this will make my fps go up by 5 and my ping go down by 50 I'll take it, say thank you, and ask for more!
  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    Turelus wrote: »
    Alcast wrote: »
    RIP small/medium sized grps with that healing debuff. I guess ZOS really wants ppl to stack up hardcore so even rthe biggest idiots who have no clue what they are doing survives bc of numbers.

    It is always nice to see that ZOS does not even bother asking experienced ppl about such changes <3

    Stacking up with these changes (more so if also augmented by AoE cap changes) would be the dumbest counter possible.

    Also what do you think this thread is for if not for asking experienced people about changes, sadly however it seems the "experienced" people only have time to post "OMG CHANGE!!! I HATE CHANGE!!! RIP ESO!!! FU ZOS!!!" :tongue:

    I already know they will not listen to ppl anyway although they say so haha. But dont worry, you will ge your new vanity pet in crownstore soon!!!
    https://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
    https://eso-hub.com - ESO-Hub.com Sets, Skills, Guides & News
    https://dwemerautomaton.com - Discord, Telegram & Twitch Command Bot



  • Turelus
    Turelus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Alcast wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Alcast wrote: »
    RIP small/medium sized grps with that healing debuff. I guess ZOS really wants ppl to stack up hardcore so even rthe biggest idiots who have no clue what they are doing survives bc of numbers.

    It is always nice to see that ZOS does not even bother asking experienced ppl about such changes <3

    Stacking up with these changes (more so if also augmented by AoE cap changes) would be the dumbest counter possible.

    Also what do you think this thread is for if not for asking experienced people about changes, sadly however it seems the "experienced" people only have time to post "OMG CHANGE!!! I HATE CHANGE!!! RIP ESO!!! FU ZOS!!!" :tongue:

    I already know they will not listen to ppl anyway although they say so haha. But dont worry, you will ge your new vanity pet in crownstore soon!!!

    I want a mini Izanagi or Abraxus that constantly yells "Zerg! Zerg! Zerg!" if I join a group larger than five people. :trollface:
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Kas
    Kas
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    *** healers, better go as 40 with 20 barriers now. and make sure you only select the server where your faction is pop locked, because you'll need those randoms shooting with siege

    or just play a NB with maneuver, shadow image and 8 times cloak on its bars and just jump around the battlefield to set up sieges.

    seriously though:
    i think the changes could be nice to punish balled up groups, IF they are accopanied with several other changes. most importantly a nerf to barrier, steel tornado range and imho also an increased setup time for siege so that taking out a siege weapon actually matters

    without any other changes though, it'd be the end of anyone playing in an underpopulated realm because the most randoms with siege will cover the most ground and decide fights
    Edited by Kas on December 1, 2015 11:52AM
    @bbu - AD/EU
    Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
    Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
    Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
    + many others
  • ThyIronFist
    ThyIronFist
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Turelus wrote: »
    You know, it's actually no wonder PvP is in such a terrible place when the entire of this thread became poop slinging within two pages.

    Get over the ego and epeen and start giving constructive feedback and criticism with theory crafting and numbers aimed at ZOS or debunking other numbers rather than...

    ZERG BAD!!! SMALL GROUP BAD!! ZERG BAD!!! SMALL GROUP BAD!!! as a PvP community we're pretty pathetic. :disappointed:

    Ok mr. zergling.

    Over the past year and a half, almost 2 years even there have been hundreds of thousands of words and sentences, constructive feedback given, hundreds if not thousands of threads written by loyal ESO members that have slowly seen the game they fell in love with driven to the ground because ZOS never listened to anything that people bothered writing, no matter how much feedback was given I think it's pretty obvious that ZOS doesn't care at all. But I think that has been obvious for a loooooong time.

    Ah well, ZOS doesn't care about their game anymore, but that's ok - neither do I. But the forums still provide me with good entertainment nonetheless.
    The Elder Zergs Online
    Sainur Ironfist - DK - EU - Ebonheart Pact
    Retired
  • Olivierko
    Olivierko
    ✭✭✭
    Stephen-Colbert-Is-Ready-For-The-Show-With-Popcorn-3D-Glasses-Gif_408x408.jpg
    Addons:PointificatorRaidificator

    1. Dar'diov ★ AvA 25 ★ Nightblade
    2. Tig'ger ★ AvA 9 ★ Dragonknight
    3. Ba'bushka ★ AvA 28 ★ Sorcerer
    4. Hails-To-Putin ★ AvA 18 ★ Templar
    5. Ba'boon ★ AvA 13 ★ Sorcerer

    6. PC EU ★ Aldmeri DominionYoutube
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Manoekin wrote: »
    You're not playing any objectives then. I don't know how much you should comment on siege if it barely affects you. You won't be able to take a keep without significantly outnumbering the enemy. That's adding to lag (as it did when the buff happened and we predicted it would). Maybe it happened differently on EU, idk. The way to make you useful in a small group is to equalize player combat instead of forcing people to sit on siege and press left click.

    I think much of the misunderstanding comes from the interpretation of what a small group is and I'll elaborate on this a bit later.

    Regarding me playing the objectives, of course nowhere near as much as medium or large groups do but I still play the map . Which means if I see the AD zerg (by zerg I mean large numbers of ungrouped randoms) are heading to re-take Roebeck, I will naturally take my group north of Roe either at the farm or at Nikel to get small fights out of the DC reinforcements. That's still part of the Cyrodiil PvP and I'm still doing my bit for the faction by delaying the adds getting to the siege.

    With 3-4 people I can't take and hold keeps, and I don't expect to. The structure I usually hold (if any) is a resource. I will occasionally help the zerg defend or take a keep if I see the cause is not lost (i.e. they are not up against organised ball groups).

    My experience of the previous siege buff was that it made defense of keeps by randoms easier, because they sieged the living hell out of bomb squads. Many attackers died (especially if the attackers were also a disorganized zerg) which meant more people respawning and running back, more people spread across the map and more people for me to kill in-between the transit lines or at the resources.

    EDIT: baiting and drawing people into a different direction and a different fight than the one they were originally heading to is not ganking :D
    Erondil wrote: »
    Pretty much all EU people complaining about this change run in group of 8-14. On the other hand @Turelus who seems to approve this change is well known to run 24 man guild blob, and more than often decides to stack up to 3 raids with another guild. Just stating fact you know

    Well, this is what it boils down to. I personally don't find a group of 8-14 a small group. You can say that's a medium group because it's not a large one perhaps, but it's certainly not small. It's not small because it doesn't behave like a small group.

    Like I said, If your group is truly small (<5) the way you approach combat is very different. You kite and move, you bomb then run, you sometimes completely spread out to survive a chase by a larger group, but you certainly don't try and hold any large structures.

    I see many people here, who play small groups or solo and they are saying that this won't affect them as much. Medium groups like you guys will receive more punishment and large groups even more so. The bigger the group the more negatively they are impacted. Which is why I don't find it as bad. Though I do want to check those snares and heal debuffs on PTS before I give my blessing. The higher damage, the caps on Purge/Barrier and the drain on magicka/stamina are all absolutely fine by me.
    Edited by Maulkin on December 1, 2015 12:29PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Manoekin wrote: »
    You're not playing any objectives then. I don't know how much you should comment on siege if it barely affects you. You won't be able to take a keep without significantly outnumbering the enemy. That's adding to lag (as it did when the buff happened and we predicted it would). Maybe it happened differently on EU, idk. The way to make you useful in a small group is to equalize player combat instead of forcing people to sit on siege and press left click.

    I think much of the misunderstanding comes from the interpretation of what a small group is and I'll elaborate on this a bit later.

    Regarding me playing the objectives, of course nowhere near as much as medium or large groups do but I still play the map . Which means if I see the AD zerg (by zerg I mean large numbers of ungrouped randoms) are heading to re-take Roebeck, I will naturally take my group north of Roe either at the farm or at Nikel to get small fights out of the DC reinforcements. That's still part of the Cyrodiil PvP and I'm still doing my bit for the faction by delaying the adds getting to the siege.

    With 3-4 people I can't take and hold keeps, and I don't expect to. The structure I usually hold (if any) is a resource. I will occasionally help the zerg defend or take a keep if I see the cause is not lost (i.e. they are not up against organised ball groups).

    My experience of the previous siege buff was that it made defense of keeps by randoms easier, because they sieged the living hell out of bomb squads. Many attackers died (especially if the attackers were also a disorganized zerg) which meant more people respawning and running back, more people spread across the map and more people for me to kill in-between the transit lines or at the resources.
    Erondil wrote: »
    Pretty much all EU people complaining about this change run in group of 8-14. On the other hand @Turelus who seems to approve this change is well known to run 24 man guild blob, and more than often decides to stack up to 3 raids with another guild. Just stating fact you know

    Well, this is what it boils down to. I personally don't find a group of 8-14 a small group. You can say that's a medium group because it's not a large perhaps, but it's certainly not small. It's not small because it doesn't behave like a small group.

    Like I said, If your group is truly small (<5) the way you approach combat is very different. You kite and move, you bomb then run, you sometimes completely spread out to survive a chase by a larger group, but you certainly don't try and hold any large structures.

    I see many people here, who play small groups or solo and they are saying that this won't affect them as much. Medium groups like you guys will receive more punishment and large groups even more so. The bigger the group the more negatively they are impacted. Which is why I don't find it as bad. Though I do want to check those snares and heal debuffs on PTS before I give my blessing. The higher damage, the caps on Purge/Barrier and the drain on magicka/stamina are all absolutely fine by me.

    This guy for PvP community rep! Finally someone who seems to understand things outside of their own play style and makes posts which are more than whining and poo slinging.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Weberda
    Weberda
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder where I stashed that Heartland set...........
    Fernwood, EP Haderus NA
    Lo Behold, AD Thornblade NA (formerly Haderus, inactive)
  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the changes - it's something the PVP community has been harping about for a long time. One thing though, I think with the increased damage and additional side effects, having meatbags and such unpurgeable could be a problem. We shall see.
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I have no idea what any of this means? Would be nice to be able to fast travel to imperial city without having to run 10 minutes through cyrodil. It would also be good to be able to do cyrodil quests without getting one shotted and starting off back on the other side of the map half hour away.
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Manoekin wrote: »
    Having 0 control over your own character is not fun or engaging gameplay. That's why the break free system exists, and why Purge and other spells like it even exist in the game at all. You're trying to fix Wrobel's problem for him in some roundabout way that makes no sense.
    That is a very astute observation, that he's trying to fix Wrobel's problem. And it's not the most elegant of solutions, agreed, but I still believe it's better than what we've currently got.

    Yes losing control of your char is frustrating. Getting rooted and silenced (which is for all intends and purposes same as getting stunned) with every gap closer was the single most infuriating and idiotic change thus far. So why do I not think so badly over even more irresistible CC?
    Ishammael wrote: »
    The buffs to siege damage are good. The addition of magicka and stamina drain is good. Unpurgeable debuffs is awful. Six seconds is a long [...] time. Especially for classes with no mobility... Once you're stuck, you're dead as Mano observed.
    On that note... Brian said that siege CC wouldn't be purgeable, but did he ever say that you won't be able to break free from it yourself? Or can you not do that now anyway?

    Edit: OK, maybe I should clarify that; this is with reference to having no control over the character (root/snare), not all the different types of debuffs.
    Edited by Enodoc on December 1, 2015 1:14PM
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    kylewwefan wrote: »
    I have no idea what any of this means? Would be nice to be able to fast travel to imperial city without having to run 10 minutes through cyrodil. It would also be good to be able to do cyrodil quests without getting one shotted and starting off back on the other side of the map half hour away.

    facepalm-Godzilla1.jpg


    I really can't gauge how much I should pick on you based on your comment, so I'll start off politely. If you don't understand what the thread is about then maybe just don't post in it? Your problems, however legitimate or not, have nothing to do with the thread.

    You don't walk into a chemistry convention and say "I don't understand any of that, but I like turtles!" do you?
    EU | PC | AD
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I like turtles. They taste great. It's just a ploy to get something read by someone of an official capacity. I think anything they do to try and make PVP better or more fair is great!
    Running solo or small group through cyrodil has not been so great for me. I gather they're trying to make that experience better.
Sign In or Register to comment.