ZOS, please STOP listening to the PVP community!

Tryxus

Soooo......

Does this mean ZOS shouldn't take our suggestions for buffing DK and Templar?

Jaronking

I wished they would start to listening to the PVP community. Allow me to get monster Sets from PVP so I can actually spend my time having fun in this game instead of grinding for monster sets with the wrong traits and weight.

Draxys

Loooooool this person clearly has no clue what (s)he's talking about

Pangnirtung

Is there a simple way for ZOS to implement changes that affect PVP balance but don't screw with PVE?

I wish but I really doubt it.

Tryxus

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Is there a simple way for ZOS to implement changes that affect PVP balance but don't screw with PVE?

I wish but I really doubt it.

Yes

If they were to take it up in the Battle Spirit along with the other tweaks...

Kiramura

Phinix1 wrote: »

I much prefer improved forward camps to "horse simulator 9000."
Sorry, but my horse isn't THAT amazing.

well, since the fact there is still the crap mount levelling system, i totally agree with you.

MrDerrikk

Yes there is a problem where ZOS is doing its balance updates off of the PvP players suggestions, but I veto him being the spokesperson for the PvE side of the issue.

There needs to be a balance of input in order to create balance.

TheBull

I will never use or recommend your addons.

ThePonzzz

I use to think the same way as the OP until I just stuck it out in PvP. It's fun. If your campaign is a horse sim, move campaigns. Azura's is always flipping. Only issue is lag. Combat was slowed down too much, but it is what it is.

eliisra

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Is there a simple way for ZOS to implement changes that affect PVP balance but don't screw with PVE?

I wish but I really doubt it.

Of course they can if they want to, just tie it to battle spirit. But they wont, because they're not making changes exclusively because of PvP balance or meta. No clue why PvE'ers always assumes that.

Balance is important in endgame PvE as well, specially when certain skill combos and builds trivializes dungeons, trials and arenas. When it makes other builds and classes second choices. Take sorc shield and Overload for example, if that gets nerfed, you bet it's because of vMA leaderboard, not PvP.

They dont want endgame PvE to be to easy or dominated by one class, why many nerfs have been a result of PvE as well as PvP.

Ampnode

'Bout as much logic as Crown over here. Please tell me your IGN so I can send a bountiful supply of potatoes daily.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I'm just trying to figure out why the guy chose to whine about something that was removed a year ago. It's Thanksgiving. Go watch some football and simmer down.

Vangy

We want nurfs we want nurfs we want nurfs!

Rwaaaaar

What do we want?!

Gimme a N-U-R-F, goooooooo nuuuurrrrrf!

N-U-R-F dat sorc, N-U-R-F dat nb, N-U-R-F dat dk, N-U-R-F dat temp!

You a nurf me a N-U-R-F everyone will be a SMURF!

Lexxypwns

Phinix1 wrote: »

It is pretty obvious they have NO IDEA what they are talking about and just run their mouths off at every frustration without thinking about the negative affect what they are calling for will have on the game.

Case in point: All the mindless QQ about "remove the forward camps, forward camps are bad mkay?" Now what do we have? PVP that is literally like having your eyes gouged out with plastic geriatric utensils.

Die to lag, zerg, bugs, or random ganks? Spend 10 minutes running over the 1-sided map getting back just to get ganked again along the way. I have literally not set foot in Cyrodiil since days after this HORRIFIC change was implemented. Most of my PVP guilds quit the game and never came back.

ZOS has this weird thing about sticking to their guns for all the wrong reasons, and listening to the community for all the wrong reasons.

I really wish they would stop chasing the whine of the moment and just leave stuff that isn't broken alone, because now PVP is totally unplayable for me. I would like Caltrops or Magicka Detonation (which are OP and NEEDED for PVE and locked behind a stupid badly designed PVP wall) but I can't put myself through the utter waste of time that is Cyrodiil in it's present state.

Maybe that's their solution to lag? Less people? I guarantee your development budget won't be positively impacted by that mentality.

Or perhaps to sell more IC DLC?

I literally cannot think of a rational explanation why this was adopted but it has killed the PVP game for me and many others.

I don't pay you for "ganking horse sim."

make you a deal, you grind my undaunted to 10 and I'll grind your alliance rank high enough for caltrops and det. It'll only take me 4 days, so I hope you can manage that with undaunted 10...

Also, instead of horse simulator have you tried senche simulator, guar simulator, or bear simulator?

ColoursYouHave

Phinix1 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Forward Camps were bad for the game.

They completely killed any action between the lanes

I would prefer to spend my time on action, not on running "the lanes."

They could have put limits on the use of camps, like no using them to turtle inside keeps with broken lines, but NO. They opted to force people to spend 80% of their time running oon their horse.

You know, for all the "action."

If you are spending 80% of your time riding your horse, you are doing something wrong. It takes me no more than 30 seconds to travel in between keeps.

Are you familiar with the Alliance War skill Rapid Maneuvers?

dday3six

Jaronking wrote: »

I wished they would start to listening to the PVP community. Allow me to get monster Sets from PVP so I can actually spend my time having fun in this game instead of grinding for monster sets with the wrong traits and weight.

This isn't going to happen. ZOS has no incentive to do it as it's not in their financial interest. If players are able to only pvp, they're less likely to purchase dlc that does not focus on pvp. That is why ZOS puts player rewards (gear, skill points, skills, costumes, etc) in to both aspects of the game. They want to extent play time overall.

That is also way they choose to smash PVP and PVE together in the first place. It would be far easier to balance if PVP was completely separated from PVE. However that would allow players only interested in either side to avoid the other.

MrGrimey

Can we get arenas and battlegrounds already?

Promise all this lag and Zerg QQ will stop

Sausage

Digerati wrote: »

this isn't *** planetside. forward camps were stupid.

Planetside 2 didnt add camps but they doubled or even tripled their cities and reduced the zerging, basically every alliance needs to split up and creates more dynamic battles. Theres two options, add camps or then simply add more keeps/castles or we can watch how things are currently, zergs move around like ballet dancer, 5 sec and everybody is there, then when its fought, 5 sec everybody moves to another spot.

First thing is to fix campaign population though, I think players should be able to choose between 3 choices, Mercenary, are sent to low pop alliance, Loyalist, are Factions finest players, Pacifist, cant enter to Cyrodil.

Islyn

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

It is pretty obvious they have NO IDEA what they are talking about and just run their mouths off at every frustration without thinking about the negative affect what they are calling for will have on the game.

Case in point: All the mindless QQ about "remove the forward camps, forward camps are bad mkay?" Now what do we have? PVP that is literally like having your eyes gouged out with plastic geriatric utensils.

Die to lag, zerg, bugs, or random ganks? Spend 10 minutes running over the 1-sided map getting back just to get ganked again along the way. I have literally not set foot in Cyrodiil since days after this HORRIFIC change was implemented. Most of my PVP guilds quit the game and never came back.

ZOS has this weird thing about sticking to their guns for all the wrong reasons, and listening to the community for all the wrong reasons.

I really wish they would stop chasing the whine of the moment and just leave stuff that isn't broken alone, because now PVP is totally unplayable for me. I would like Caltrops or Magicka Detonation (which are OP and NEEDED for PVE and locked behind a stupid badly designed PVP wall) but I can't put myself through the utter waste of time that is Cyrodiil in it's present state.

Maybe that's their solution to lag? Less people? I guarantee your development budget won't be positively impacted by that mentality.

Or perhaps to sell more IC DLC?

I literally cannot think of a rational explanation why this was adopted but it has killed the PVP game for me and many others.

I don't pay you for "ganking horse sim."

make you a deal, you grind my undaunted to 10 and I'll grind your alliance rank high enough for caltrops and det. It'll only take me 4 days, so I hope you can manage that with undaunted 10...

Also, instead of horse simulator have you tried senche simulator, guar simulator, or bear simulator?

Easy to get undaunted to 10 if you have not done all the undaunted quests.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Not picking sides but there is some truth to the post. It was the PvP community who got DKs and HA nerfed so badly and took away what little power Templars had to begin with and why the Night Blade is the new MUST HAVE THING of the season.

But all in all both sides are responsible for there words here.

Draxys

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Not picking sides but there is some truth to the post. It was the PvP community who got DKs and HA nerfed so badly and took away what little power Templars had to begin with and why the Night Blade is the new MUST HAVE THING of the season.

But all in all both sides are responsible for there words here.

Actually the part of the community you are referring to consisted of a large number of "pve-ers" and casuals who didn't know what they were doing.

Jhunn

Draxys wrote: »

Actually the part of the community you are referring to consisted of a large number of "pve-ers" and casuals who didn't know what they were doing.

Word.

GamerzElite

Phinix1 wrote: »

I really wish they would stop chasing the whine of the moment and just leave stuff that isn't broken alone, because now PVP is totally unplayable for me. I would like Caltrops or Magicka Detonation (which are OP and NEEDED for PVE and locked behind a stupid badly designed PVP wall) but I can't put myself through the utter waste of time that is Cyrodiil in it's present state.

Wait wait wait, You need Caltrops or Magicka Detonation in PvE and It is Op so these should be removed from PvP, because you can't play PvP. Mate I have small suggestion for you, build your character wisly then try PvP. You have no Idea how much effort people put in to build a PvP char. Stop crying like a kid and work on ur build.

Phinix1 wrote: »

ZOS has this weird thing about sticking to their guns for all the wrong reasons, and listening to the community for all the wrong reasons.

You are asking ZOS to stop listen community and the other hand you asking something from ZOS, Aren't you part of community?

DannyLV702

The title implies that they listen to us LOL

k2blader

@Phinix1

I generally agree in that I believe Zeni needs to start playing Cyrodiil-- at least 3 hours per sitting during primetime and also off peak-- so they actually understand for themselves what their PvP is like for magicka and stamina builds for each class. Across their designers and staff they need to begin to understand their own game from an average player's perspective. Only after that can they hope to begin properly fixing PvP issues.

As you mention, the removal of forward camps is a good example of a failure caused by listening to forum whinge. Zeni chose to listen to the more hardcore PvPers of the time who started up the cry that "death should mean something" when what it was really about was they hated the fact that "casuals" and "noobs" could rez up quickly and easily to return to the battle.

So after FCs were removed we were left with the equestrian simulator and the rise of gankers, both of which are a huge turn off to the average player. Many folks became tired of dealing with those things and stopped playing. And now, the same types of people who cried about forward camps are crying about "zergs" when what it is really about is they hate the fact that they can be beat by "casuals" and "noobs" who are smart enough to stick together.

Anyway, I entirely agree with your thread title. Zeni has a lot of work to do, but I don't want them listening to the people who are, unintentionally or not, calling for things that will make the game less fun. There's been far too much of that already.

Turelus

Forward camps were bad for PvP it's that simple. Now we see front lines and rushes to defend after wipes adding ganking opportunities and ambush locations.

Blood porting was one of the most ridiculous tactics in the game. I used it every day over and over, ordering a 24 man raid to die on a resource so we could instantly appear the other end of the map.

Yes the PvP community whines a lot, we also make a damn lot of good posts with explanations, breakdowns and constructive conversation about mechanics and the are of the game we play. You just have to check the AoE caps thread to see this.

Also you realise that you devalued your entire thread when you went from saying "don't listen to people whining about PvP" and then whined about PvP and mechanics you didn't like it in right?

Artheiron

What made you think bringing back forward camps will solve gank horse sim problem? It was a thing once, it still is.
They listen to PVP community, but, wrong pvp community.

I'm against game dumbing nerfs, I support anything make it less painful, less grindy and more interesting. They brought the ambassador system but I'm not sure if it's working.

Let's say they ask opinions of the one of our famous streamer here, not gonna mention his name because he's an amazing talent and a noble person, you can't tell he's as perceptive as someone playing worse than him when it comes to understanding every single aspect of pvp. It could be you, me or anybody. So what they need is better designers and design decisions. Listening their customers but not doing what they say, using feedback for understanding and reshaping both the bigger picture and the microscale.

Kiramura

MrGrimey wrote: »

Can we get arenas and battlegrounds already?

Promise all this lag and Zerg QQ will stop

Man, battlegrounds are already here. There is 1, and is called Cyrodill. If you want stuffs like battlegrounds, go play world of warcraft.

The only thing I agree with is the implementation of arenas, because in the past elder scroll: oblivion game I remember the Imperial city arena...accordingly it is a real thing in the elder scroll lore.