Templar Enigma

DanielWinterborn

Hi there, so this is really bugging me because i am trying to figure it out:

NB>Sorc>DK>Templar>? (not even mobs since i cant solo vet maelstrom tho i can solo most of IC)

Really, in 1v1 my Legendary item templar gets murker by pretty much anything yet my purple item DK nukes like hell...Hmmmm

It does not stop there! So my templar is a magicka dps build, im using heavy armor on him and i got around 27k physical def yet for some reason i get 15k wrecking blow hits (no dk)

Some more : i got from one guy a 15k heavy attack hit on 27k def. (no dk)

Yes this is a tempalt QQ post, this class is nerfed beyond belief. Why not take it out entierly?

Bottom line templar in pvp is only a support class?

Jura23

He probably critted on you + had really high dps build. I have similar stats as you and I think I'm quite tanky. Of course there are times when even that doesn't help.

Nifty2g

Your issue is in your post
I'm a magicka dps in heavy armor

DanielWinterborn

Nifty2g wrote: »

Your issue is in your post
I'm a magicka dps in heavy armor

care to elaborate on that?

Nifty2g

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Your issue is in your post
I'm a magicka dps in heavy armor

care to elaborate on that?

Gearing completely wrong, you're not going to be doing much damage in heavy armor

DanielWinterborn

I get that you get some more damage on light but not much, considering my item build i probably could squeeze a 5-10% dps increase in light but die way to fast and its not worth it. Also 10% dps increase is not THAT great, still can't kill a rodent.


Ohhh oh might i also mention that Dark Flare that thing you cast for 1.1 seconds can be dodged 100% if your timing is right so templar vs stam build using that skill = 0 dps

SemiD4rkness

We are the worst class by far (stamplar is even worse) try different builds until you find yourself comfortable and at least be able to win most 1v1s. If it doesn't work join a Zerg (templars are the most important class by far) or reroll a new class.

Nifty2g

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

I get that you get some more damage on light but not much, considering my item build i probably could squeeze a 5-10% dps increase in light but die way to fast and its not worth it. Also 10% dps increase is not THAT great, still can't kill a rodent.


Ohhh oh might i also mention that Dark Flare that thing you cast for 1.1 seconds can be dodged 100% if your timing is right so templar vs stam build using that skill = 0 dps

your issues are going to be resolved if you gear right, you can't kill anything cause you're hitting less to nothing in heavy armor. It's not an issue of squeezing 5-10% dps increase it's more about a 60% increase using the proper sets and the proper gear.

They probably just burst you down because they can just self heal through literally all of your attacks you are doing. Heavy armor used to be a thing when soft caps were around or for healing, now it's pretty useless if you consider yourself a dps
(aside from dk's they're actually oddly good in heavy armor)

Cinbri

Class is worst only coz almost all usefull templar abilites has weird mechanic or bugged. And its number increasing with each patch. Jabs, Sweep, Rite of Passage(but this is good bug), Aurora Javelin, Charge, Backlash,Radiant Destruction, Honor the Dead. <--- go figure out what bugs they have.

BlackEar

Just pray for a buff. All templar are doing this. They said they would. I will wait and see.

DanielWinterborn

Nifty2g wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

I get that you get some more damage on light but not much, considering my item build i probably could squeeze a 5-10% dps increase in light but die way to fast and its not worth it. Also 10% dps increase is not THAT great, still can't kill a rodent.


Ohhh oh might i also mention that Dark Flare that thing you cast for 1.1 seconds can be dodged 100% if your timing is right so templar vs stam build using that skill = 0 dps

your issues are going to be resolved if you gear right, you can't kill anything cause you're hitting less to nothing in heavy armor. It's not an issue of squeezing 5-10% dps increase it's more about a 60% increase using the proper sets and the proper gear.

They probably just burst you down because they can just self heal through literally all of your attacks you are doing. Heavy armor used to be a thing when soft caps were around or for healing, now it's pretty useless if you consider yourself a dps
(aside from dk's they're actually oddly good in heavy armor)

Bro im using julianos and elfbane + willpower set all yellow, arcane jewels, spell damage glyphs maxed out at 2670 spell damage and 35k magicka unbuffed with 45% crit rate and for example 1.1k damage on sweeps unbuffed. Please tell me how will i get a 60% increase in this using light armor. I will eat dirt if you prove me wrong, film it and post it here for you. Actually that goes for everyone that can do that. (btw dont have dungeon items like kena or others)

Nifty2g

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

I get that you get some more damage on light but not much, considering my item build i probably could squeeze a 5-10% dps increase in light but die way to fast and its not worth it. Also 10% dps increase is not THAT great, still can't kill a rodent.


Ohhh oh might i also mention that Dark Flare that thing you cast for 1.1 seconds can be dodged 100% if your timing is right so templar vs stam build using that skill = 0 dps

your issues are going to be resolved if you gear right, you can't kill anything cause you're hitting less to nothing in heavy armor. It's not an issue of squeezing 5-10% dps increase it's more about a 60% increase using the proper sets and the proper gear.

They probably just burst you down because they can just self heal through literally all of your attacks you are doing. Heavy armor used to be a thing when soft caps were around or for healing, now it's pretty useless if you consider yourself a dps
(aside from dk's they're actually oddly good in heavy armor)

Bro im using julianos and elfbane + willpower set all yellow, arcane jewels, spell damage glyphs maxed out at 2670 spell damage and 35k magicka unbuffed with 45% crit rate and for example 1.1k damage on sweeps unbuffed. Please tell me how will i get a 60% increase in this using light armor. I will eat dirt if you prove me wrong, film it and post it here for you. Actually that goes for everyone that can do that. (btw dont have dungeon items like kena or others)

1) Tooltip doesn't mean much in this situation, plus 1100 is pretty weak and you're losing a ton of Spell Penetration
2) You are missing Spell Penetration from Light Armor.
3) Assuming you are using Sword and Board(?) You are losing 18% Spell Penetration from double Nirn Swords

eliisra

Nifty2g wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

I get that you get some more damage on light but not much, considering my item build i probably could squeeze a 5-10% dps increase in light but die way to fast and its not worth it. Also 10% dps increase is not THAT great, still can't kill a rodent.


Ohhh oh might i also mention that Dark Flare that thing you cast for 1.1 seconds can be dodged 100% if your timing is right so templar vs stam build using that skill = 0 dps

your issues are going to be resolved if you gear right, you can't kill anything cause you're hitting less to nothing in heavy armor. It's not an issue of squeezing 5-10% dps increase it's more about a 60% increase using the proper sets and the proper gear.

Of course heavy sucks for dps builds. But light armor dps templar just melts in PvP. Unlike light NB or sorc, you have no way of kiting or avoiding dmg. Unlike sorc you have no big shield.

You also have no defences against over tuned stamina dmg, besides healing. You cant use the class shield effectively any more, after the blanket nerf. You can use the charge ability to move around, because bugged.

So I get why people in pure panic go heavy. Yet it doesn't mitigate as much as you think, while you loose loads of dmg.

There's just not that many choices as far as build goes in PvP. Always play in groups, so you can get mobility or cross heals from others(while being called zergling), is the solution for both light and stamina templar. You can also go kill PvE'ers, casuals and low levels in IC or around quest hubs like 1vX players, than pretend you're super strong and all is fine

DanielWinterborn

I am using only a destruction staff will make dual swords today i hope if my crafter man comes online. I did extensive testing agains trolls in newt cave and IC bosses and i get more dps (around 15k) while using the crit power CP instead of the spell penetration one, also did tests using elemental drain (skill that lower spell resistance by 5k) and the dps difference is not worth the slot on the bar like a 2-3% increase at best.

Nifty2g

eliisra wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

I get that you get some more damage on light but not much, considering my item build i probably could squeeze a 5-10% dps increase in light but die way to fast and its not worth it. Also 10% dps increase is not THAT great, still can't kill a rodent.


Ohhh oh might i also mention that Dark Flare that thing you cast for 1.1 seconds can be dodged 100% if your timing is right so templar vs stam build using that skill = 0 dps

your issues are going to be resolved if you gear right, you can't kill anything cause you're hitting less to nothing in heavy armor. It's not an issue of squeezing 5-10% dps increase it's more about a 60% increase using the proper sets and the proper gear.

Of course heavy sucks for dps builds. But light armor dps templar just melts in PvP. Unlike light NB or sorc, you have no way of kiting or avoiding dmg. Unlike sorc you have no big shield.

You also have no defences against over tuned stamina dmg, besides healing. You cant use the class shield effectively any more, after the blanket nerf. You can use the charge ability to move around, because bugged.

So I get why people in pure panic go heavy. Yet it doesn't mitigate as much as you think, while you loose loads of dmg.

There's just not that many choices as far as build goes in PvP. Always play in groups, so you can get mobility or cross heals from others(while being called zergling), is the solution for both light and stamina templar. You can also go kill PvE'ers, casuals and low levels in IC or around quest hubs like 1vX players, than pretend you're super strong and all is fine

I think it's just a matter of being able to DPS your target down faster than they can hit you, Templars can do it pretty well but again it requires you to spec into being able to do that. Being in Heavy Armor not hitting as much as you'd like to you'll probably run out of resources in the end.

Note: Testing trolls does not work as their Physical and Spell Resistance differs far too much to make that judgement, but then again if you are making this judgement based on PvE take note that all of Templar abilities are Magic Damage and you don't get a benefit from a destruction staff at all. You gain a lot more with Dual Swords and to never DPS in heavy armor for PvE, ever.

DanielWinterborn

eliisra wrote: »

Of course heavy sucks for dps builds. But light armor dps templar just melts in PvP. Unlike light NB or sorc, you have no way of kiting or avoiding dmg. Unlike sorc you have no big shield.

You also have no defences against over tuned stamina dmg, besides healing. You cant use the class shield effectively any more, after the blanket nerf. You can use the charge ability to move around, because bugged.

So I get why people in pure panic go heavy. Yet it doesn't mitigate as much as you think, while you loose loads of dmg.

There's just not that many choices as far as build goes in PvP. Always play in groups, so you can get mobility or cross heals from others(while being called zergling), is the solution for both light and stamina templar. You can also go kill PvE'ers, casuals and low levels in IC or around quest hubs like 1vX players, than pretend you're super strong and all is fine

And where is the fun in that? I mean Templars are really so nerfed that if i knew they are so bad i would never create that char. This guys never heard of balance or what?
Sorc = glass cannon (every single game) yet here they are tanks, dps, healers, all in one murderer.
NB = High damage fast escape but wth when i see him going invis all the freakin time and still having resources to put on hurt on like 3 people all with yellow stuff like me and down all of us i can't help but go insane.
DK = DPS, Tank, Escape.
Templar = Victim...?

DanielWinterborn

Nifty2g wrote: »

I think it's just a matter of being able to DPS your target down faster than they can hit you, Templars can do it pretty well but again it requires you to spec into being able to do that. Being in Heavy Armor not hitting as much as you'd like to you'll probably run out of resources in the end.

Note: Testing trolls does not work as their Physical and Spell Resistance differs far too much to make that judgement, but then again if you are making this judgement based on PvE take note that all of Templar abilities are Magic Damage and you don't get a benefit from a destruction staff at all. You gain a lot more with Dual Swords and to never DPS in heavy armor for PvE, ever.

Again, prove to me that Light Armor can god like me. I have no problem with mana management. The only 2 thing a light armor can add is : 12% crit rate and some spell penetration. That will never empower a templar enough to matter. If i think about it heavy armor is the more likely candidate to make a templar stronger since it gives those jabs time to recover your HP and not die in 1 hit. I got 15k Hits on 27k Defense how much will i get on a 12k defence? 25k? 1 hit dead? How does that make sense?

Joy_Division

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

I get that you get some more damage on light but not much, considering my item build i probably could squeeze a 5-10% dps increase in light but die way to fast and its not worth it. Also 10% dps increase is not THAT great, still can't kill a rodent.


Ohhh oh might i also mention that Dark Flare that thing you cast for 1.1 seconds can be dodged 100% if your timing is right so templar vs stam build using that skill = 0 dps

your issues are going to be resolved if you gear right, you can't kill anything cause you're hitting less to nothing in heavy armor. It's not an issue of squeezing 5-10% dps increase it's more about a 60% increase using the proper sets and the proper gear.

They probably just burst you down because they can just self heal through literally all of your attacks you are doing. Heavy armor used to be a thing when soft caps were around or for healing, now it's pretty useless if you consider yourself a dps
(aside from dk's they're actually oddly good in heavy armor)

Bro im using julianos and elfbane + willpower set all yellow, arcane jewels, spell damage glyphs maxed out at 2670 spell damage and 35k magicka unbuffed with 45% crit rate and for example 1.1k damage on sweeps unbuffed. Please tell me how will i get a 60% increase in this using light armor. I will eat dirt if you prove me wrong, film it and post it here for you. Actually that goes for everyone that can do that. (btw dont have dungeon items like kena or others)

If you don't like the answers you are getting, why ask the question.

You got Rekt. People are trying to tell you why you got Rekt. You have Zero sustain with that setup. You are arguing with them that they are wrong. Fine. Don't listen to us. We are wrong. Keep getting Rekt.

DanielWinterborn

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you don't like the answers you are getting, why ask the question.

You got Rekt. People are trying to tell you why you got Rekt. You have Zero sustain with that setup. You are arguing with them that they are wrong. Fine. Don't listen to us. We are wrong. Keep getting Rekt.

How can i get Rekt with zero sustain when i just mentioned i have no problem with mana management?

I don't like the answer because it is wrong captain obvious. You can spam the word Rekt all you like but you just troll this post with no real argument at all, if you have something smart to say say it and prove it not just blab about nothing. Thanks.

Nifty2g

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you don't like the answers you are getting, why ask the question.

You got Rekt. People are trying to tell you why you got Rekt. You have Zero sustain with that setup. You are arguing with them that they are wrong. Fine. Don't listen to us. We are wrong. Keep getting Rekt.

How can i get Rekt with zero sustain when i just mentioned i have no problem with mana management?

I don't like the answer because it is wrong captain obvious. You can spam the word Rekt all you like but you just troll this post with no real argument at all, if you have something smart to say say it and prove it not just blab about nothing. Thanks.

Er I've played a Templar for quite some time and theorycraft daily in ways to maximize dps and survival and sustain, if you don't want to listen to me fair enough, I don't have much to prove but I've had several world records in a lot of things. This is why a lot of players struggle, they refuse to take any advice other than "prove me wrong". The answer is simple. Change your set up. Heavy armor builds are way out of date

WillhelmBlack

I know the feeling. Its the battle levelling that hit us hard. They cocked up somewhere with Templar, I was real strong in 1.6 and IC PTS but now I just can't burst anything apart from Nightblades, that's if my toppling charge works obviously.

DanielWinterborn

Nifty2g wrote: »

Er I've played a Templar for quite some time and theorycraft daily in ways to maximize dps and survival and sustain, if you don't want to listen to me fair enough, I don't have much to prove but I've had several world records in a lot of things. This is why a lot of players struggle, they refuse to take any advice other than "prove me wrong". The answer is simple. Change your set up. Heavy armor builds are way out of date

I'm sorry but i can't take the advice and the suggestions of anyone unless they can come up with real facts. I have facts and i present them as they are, this is not just me saying make my build strong this is proven stuff. You can't just say wear light armor and you will see the epic huge diff because there is none, you can't take something that fails in PVP equiped at max and tweaked and tested for hours, get it in light armor and suddenly from that fail you get a big win. You only have to think rationally : adding 12% crit rate and 3k spell penetration will not make templar a viable class in light armor. It would increase my DPS slightly but not enough to say : you're right i'm wrong templar is good pvp class. If i were to say that templar has bad DPS and die fast would you recommend heavy armor?

I don't want to be able to kill everyone but there should be a class circle where one class is good agains another and none of them gets the upper hand vs the rest. In my opinion Templar should be able to kill sorc, Dk kill NB, Sorc kill NB, Nb kill templar, DK should be somewhat equal vs templar, etc.

Now i'm not starting a fight this is just constructive criticism.

Joy_Division

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you don't like the answers you are getting, why ask the question.

You got Rekt. People are trying to tell you why you got Rekt. You have Zero sustain with that setup. You are arguing with them that they are wrong. Fine. Don't listen to us. We are wrong. Keep getting Rekt.

How can i get Rekt with zero sustain when i just mentioned i have no problem with mana management?

I don't like the answer because it is wrong captain obvious. You can spam the word Rekt all you like but you just troll this post with no real argument at all, if you have something smart to say say it and prove it not just blab about nothing. Thanks.

You can call me Captain Obvious, but you sound like Private Oblivious.

You are the one that said your templar gets murdered by everything. I and Nifty and others play a templar and we do not get Rekt. It's not the class that is busted, it's either your build or the way you play a templar.

DanielWinterborn

Joy_Division wrote: »

You can call me Captain Obvious, but you sound like Private Oblivious.

You are the one that said your templar gets murdered by everything. I and Nifty and others play a templar and we do not get Rekt. It's not the class that is busted, it's either your build or the way you play a templar.

Well yea i can also PVE, the talk is about PVP.

Please tell me you are not AD templar so we can meet in cyro and prove your might to me.

WillhelmBlack

Joy_Division wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you don't like the answers you are getting, why ask the question.

You got Rekt. People are trying to tell you why you got Rekt. You have Zero sustain with that setup. You are arguing with them that they are wrong. Fine. Don't listen to us. We are wrong. Keep getting Rekt.

How can i get Rekt with zero sustain when i just mentioned i have no problem with mana management?

I don't like the answer because it is wrong captain obvious. You can spam the word Rekt all you like but you just troll this post with no real argument at all, if you have something smart to say say it and prove it not just blab about nothing. Thanks.

You can call me Captain Obvious, but you sound like Private Oblivious.

You are the one that said your templar gets murdered by everything. I and Nifty and others play a templar and we do not get Rekt. It's not the class that is busted, it's either your build or the way you play a templar.

As good players, do you not find yourself stalemate with other players you know for a fact you have rekt before on your NB or Sorc?

Honest question, don't mind just no as an answer.

Nifty2g

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You can call me Captain Obvious, but you sound like Private Oblivious.

You are the one that said your templar gets murdered by everything. I and Nifty and others play a templar and we do not get Rekt. It's not the class that is busted, it's either your build or the way you play a templar.

Well yea i can also PVE, the talk is about PVP.

Please tell me you are not AD templar so we can meet in cyro and prove your might to me.

classic

like i said this is the reason a lot of players say stuff is broken because they refuse to listen to any advice from anyone.

DanielWinterborn

Nifty2g wrote: »

like i said this is the reason a lot of players say stuff is broken because they refuse to listen to any advice from anyone.

Bro i'm sorry but i'm starting to loose my patience here and also starting to believe you are some kind of troll. Your words and your advice do NOTHING please use brain and tell me how in the world 12% crit rate and 4k magic penetration is a viable option? All you do is say the same thing over and over: use light = win! without ANY proof whatsoever.You do realize that i would get 2 hit by NB and all my phy/magic resists would go in the trash. You can't just max your DPS and say : ok i have alot of dmg too bad i can't kill nothing since i die before reaching jabs range. Take DK or Sorc for example, they can take alot of dmg and deal tons of it at the same time, not to mention sneaky NB that never dies unless caught off guard. So yea take your light armor and shove it, this class is nerfed and we the templars (not the trolls or the other classes guys) want this class at the same level as other classes, not more not less.

C0pp3rhead

I've been away for a while, but I'm hoping my 2cents can clarify things. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've been playing a Templar since day 1, and left the game a few weeks before IC came out.

If what I remember is still current, here's the situation:
Crit chance doesn't mean sh**. If you want to deal damage, you need to maximize spell penetration and spell power. I've forgotten what the exact numbers are, but an increase to spell power & pen ups your dps more than a comparable increase to crit chance. The best way to increase spell pen is with light armor. The Undaunted buffs also give you bonuses for armor diversity, so 1heavy, 1med, & 1light is what I remember many were using. If you're shooting for PvP dps, you need at least 3k spell penetration.

You also need to take into account that Templar PvP playstyle differs significantly from other classes. Yes, Templar magicka dps is crap. No way around that. However, our forte is survivability. If you have a decent ping & decent reflexes, a well timed block or blazing shield will save your life. Follow up with a BoL or HtD and you're up to full health and ready to roll. No other class can instantly and repeatedly restore 80% of their health. I am personally awful at 1v1's. As a templar, I felt victorious when I made myself so hard to kill that most people gave up. Start there, and you'll be kicking arse eventually.

zornyan

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

I am using only a destruction staff will make dual swords today i hope if my crafter man comes online. I did extensive testing agains trolls in newt cave and IC bosses and i get more dps (around 15k) while using the crit power CP instead of the spell penetration one, also did tests using elemental drain (skill that lower spell resistance by 5k) and the dps difference is not worth the slot on the bar like a 2-3% increase at best.

Use a major resistance debuff that removes around 6k resist is just about 10% damage increase per hit.

zornyan

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

like i said this is the reason a lot of players say stuff is broken because they refuse to listen to any advice from anyone.

Bro i'm sorry but i'm starting to loose my patience here and also starting to believe you are some kind of troll. Your words and your advice do NOTHING please use brain and tell me how in the world 12% crit rate and 4k magic penetration is a viable option? All you do is say the same thing over and over: use light = win! without ANY proof whatsoever.You do realize that i would get 2 hit by NB and all my phy/magic resists would go in the trash. You can't just max your DPS and say : ok i have alot of dmg too bad i can't kill nothing since i die before reaching jabs range. Take DK or Sorc for example, they can take alot of dmg and deal tons of it at the same time, not to mention sneaky NB that never dies unless caught off guard. So yea take your light armor and shove it, this class is nerfed and we the templars (not the trolls or the other classes guys) want this class at the same level as other classes, not more not less.

I have an imperial magicka templar, he does extemely well in pvp, wearing 5 light 1 med 1 heavy.

Heavy armor is crap in pvp, I found that out myself, you need light armor.

With no light armor, and the fact your using all spell damage glyphs means your sustain is crap, your missing out on regen, cost reduction, penetration and crit.

The more damage you do each hit, the more health you get back from sweeps, simples. 1v1 my sweeps keeps my health bar at full alongside purifying ritual. Don't even have to heal most times.

When you seen an NB, block? Heal, CC them, go on the offensive.

Using heavy armor all you do is make yourself a punchbag.

If you really really want videos, check out syhper, he uses light armor and still tanks 2-3 players at once.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

yes templar has some issues
then I read: "mag dps with heavy armor"
yes u have some issues to

issues+issues=screwed