i feel like im being punished

gimpdrb14_ESO

i know its a dead horse but......

Animation cancelling, i simply just cant get it down. i have tried and tried for hours on end practicing it over and over again, iv watched videos, read guides and i still cant get it down. so my dps suffers form it, i miss out on content because of it. iv gotten ridiculed in 4 man dungeons for not doing it, so i stopped doing them, i havnt done any trails, since i cant do it(iv gotten kicked out out of pug groups, so i stopped doing trails). i get owned in PvP all the time since i cant do it.

i know ZOS has said they like and will not be doing anything about it, to me this sounds like they just dont have any clues on how to stop it.

i know im not the only out there like this.

so what i am supposed to do? i really do enjoy/love this game but if i cant simply do the content whats the point?

and before anyone says it ill say it first
"if you cant animation cancel then you just suck and should find a different game"

Catblade

It's pretty horrible that you have to break the game to compete. I hate animation canceling. I can do it easily but seriously where's the skill? My opponent either does the same thing and we dps race or they have no time to react and just die. No skill involved just higher numbers matter

JD2013

Actually in one of the more recent ESO Live episodes, they said they're trying some things out to discourage it.

Elloa

According to some friends, the animations canceling will only add a very little percentage of additional DPS anyway. So you should not worry too much about it.
There is also build that exclude completely animation canceling.


I totaly feel for you. I'm not DPSer though, so I'm not the best person to speak about that, and I can't give you much suggestion to help you.

however, seems to me that you major problem is community-related. Don't you have a nice and understanding guild? Some friends that would enjoy to play with you?
I'm guild leader of my little community, and I can assure you that we are doing all kind of content and we don't impose build, minimum DPS, animation cancelation, good gear or whatever. We often group with players that are too low level or are unexperimented, and we just enjoy the adventure together, sharing a nice evening, and chatting on TeamSpeak.

That's the kind of persons you need to meet. They exist. And that will make your experience of the game 100x better!

daemonios

There are several types of animation cancelling, and not all skills work with it.

The simplest type is light/medium attack cancelling. You do a light/medium attack and IMMEDIATELY use a skill. This cancels the light/medium attack and immediately uses the skill.

Some skills can also be block-cancelled to shorten their animation and make yourself ready for another light/medium attack. Immediately after the skill executes, BLOCK. I say after the skill executes because certain skills won't go off if you cancel them too soon.

An example from my sorc: I buff myself and put down liquid lightning (off-hand bar), cast proximity detonation (aoe setup) or velocious curse (single-target setup) then go into my normal rotation:

medium attack -> force pulse -> block -> medium attack -> etc. (reapply buffs/dots as they wear out)

If I get a crystal shards proc, I go:

medium attack -> structured entropy -> block -> crystal shards -> block -> medium attack -> force pulse -> block -> etc.

By blocking after entropy and crystal shards, I cancel the animation (though not the skill, since it's an instant-cast). The reason I don't put in a medium attack between entropy and crystal shards is to get the 20% extra damage on the next attack (mages guild passive) to go on the shards and not be wasted on the medium attack.

Different skills and classes use animation cancelling in different ways. If you're in a guild, ask someone with more experience for some advice. And keep practising, it will become muscle memory in time. That said, everyone fumbles their rotation and animation cancelling sometimes. It's not a big deal.

gimpdrb14_ESO

JD2013 wrote: »

Actually in one of the more recent ESO Live episodes, they said they're trying some things out to discourage it.

i really do enjoy the sound of this tyvm for the insight, i havnt watched the last few episodes.

Catblade

It's not about the dps it adds it's about not having the time to react. And i can tell you weaving medium attacks adds a huge amount of dps on my stamblade. Start to charge it then cancel with surprise attack and it's like hitting them twice. On my magika characters it's not so big of a deal but it does add some decent dps

Waffennacht

Catblade wrote: »

It's not about the dps it adds it's about not having the time to react. And i can tell you weaving medium attacks adds a huge amount of dps on my stamblade. Start to charge it then cancel with surprise attack and it's like hitting them twice. On my magika characters it's not so big of a deal but it does add some decent dps

Exactly as a dw sorc (or even 2h) weaving or cancelling has limited uses (with heavy or light attack)

You can use abilities to weave others. Example: CF can be weaved by hardened ward or webs, which can weave with curse which can weave with CF etc...

Fyi the block can play havok with a low stam magicka build sometimes you just wanna dodge roll.

Really surprised you get kicked, I wouldn't kick you

Glaiceana

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

i know its a dead horse but......

Animation cancelling, i simply just cant get it down. i have tried and tried for hours on end practicing it over and over again, iv watched videos, read guides and i still cant get it down. so my dps suffers form it, i miss out on content because of it. iv gotten ridiculed in 4 man dungeons for not doing it, so i stopped doing them, i havnt done any trails, since i cant do it(iv gotten kicked out out of pug groups, so i stopped doing trails). i get owned in PvP all the time since i cant do it.

i know ZOS has said they like and will not be doing anything about it, to me this sounds like they just dont have any clues on how to stop it.

i know im not the only out there like this.

so what i am supposed to do? i really do enjoy/love this game but if i cant simply do the content whats the point?

and before anyone says it ill say it first
"if you cant animation cancel then you just suck and should find a different game"

I understand how you must feel. I have tried animation cancelling too, but more out of curiosity than a need to, and I managed to get it to work once with one of my bow skills. I don't do trials yet so I haven't encountered people demanding that you know how to animation cancel. Also, I expected to die in PVP easily because I'm not good at it anyway, so perhaps not knowing how to animation cancel hasn't really made it any worse. But I have heard that if you want to be doing the best you possibly can in PvP, you need to know how to animation cancel, which is kind of sad to know

Sting864

Why isn't this greeted with the same disdain as meta-gaming?? It's like waiting for a player to leave the table for a drink, and stealing all his Monopoly money... He can't do anything to stop it, but it's a Richard move....

Catblade

Glaiceana wrote: »

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

i know its a dead horse but......

Animation cancelling, i simply just cant get it down. i have tried and tried for hours on end practicing it over and over again, iv watched videos, read guides and i still cant get it down. so my dps suffers form it, i miss out on content because of it. iv gotten ridiculed in 4 man dungeons for not doing it, so i stopped doing them, i havnt done any trails, since i cant do it(iv gotten kicked out out of pug groups, so i stopped doing trails). i get owned in PvP all the time since i cant do it.

i know ZOS has said they like and will not be doing anything about it, to me this sounds like they just dont have any clues on how to stop it.

i know im not the only out there like this.

so what i am supposed to do? i really do enjoy/love this game but if i cant simply do the content whats the point?

and before anyone says it ill say it first
"if you cant animation cancel then you just suck and should find a different game"

I understand how you must feel. I have tried animation cancelling too, but more out of curiosity than a need to, and I managed to get it to work once with one of my bow skills. I don't do trials yet so I haven't encountered people demanding that you know how to animation cancel. Also, I expected to die in PVP easily because I'm not good at it anyway, so perhaps not knowing how to animation cancel hasn't really made it any worse. But I have heard that if you want to be doing the best you possibly can in PvP, you need to know how to animation cancel, which is kind of sad to know

With the bow try charging a heavy attack, then while still holding it activate poison injection. You will fire both arrows in the same two seconds.

Kutsuu

Maybe it's ineffective keybinds, or maybe you're greatly exaggerating how much effort you've actually put forth to learning, but asking them to make the game less responsive isn't going to help anyone. Without animation canceling they'll have to throw out the priority system and let the "GCD" that already exists apply to all abilities every time you perform any action. That means you hit a light attack or an ability, and half a second later you need to block or dodge... tough luck. You're locked out. Maybe they could make it so using another ability during that GCD still allows you to use it, but cancels all benefits/damage from whatever action you cancelled... but that's going to drive people crazy also. Think if you did a full heavy attack on an enemy then went to block or dodge or press an attack ability, only to realize you pressed it a split second too soon and lost your whole heavy attack.

The reason I'm making these points is because it's too late to realistically expect a complete overhaul of the combat system to be more like WoW with cooldowns, a normal GCD, and ability queue with "off GCD" abilities. The off GCD thing doesn't work in a game with no cooldowns, or else you're using off GCD abilities during every GCD cycle in order to maximize damage... and there you go back to it being "too hard" to get max DPS. So for a normal GCD to be implemented, but still have abilities be off GCD so they are still responsive (dodge/block/weaponswap/bash/etc), you need cooldowns too. Cooldowns don't work so well with the limited set of abilities in this game, so again you're talking a very serious overhaul.

Your average person can pick up light/medium canceling muscle memory in a couple hours of grinding mobs. From there you can develop block or bash canceling the active skills if you want... but simple medium cancelling is plenty enough to do 95% of your max potential in PVE on most classes.

One of the simplest ways to pick up medium attack weaving is to stand around doing heavy attacks a bit and get accustomed to the animation your character does when it FIRST pulls the weapon back for the wind up. Once you have that down, the rest is simple. Hold down your light/heavy attack button. Yep just keep it held down and never let it go. When you see your character wind back for a heavy attack, begin rapidly pressing your DPS ability keybind, whatever that might be. Pretty early in the heavy attack animation, you will perform your DPS ability, then your character will start to wind up for another heavy attack. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you'll get a feel for WHEN you can interrupt the heavy attack with your DPS ability so you don't have to spam the button much at all. So with the medium attack weave, you're simply holding down the light/heavy attack button the entire time, and pressing your DPS ability key at regular intervals. This requires very little coordination and the visual cue is very obvious.

With light attack weaving, it's just tapping a couple of buttons quickly. First tap your light attack, then immediately press your DPS ability keybind. Wait roughly 1 second and do it again. Over time you'll get a feel for how fast you can do this.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Find a good guild. PUGs suck.

Animation cancelling isn't as good as it once was. Not applicable on some builds and on others it is only a minor improvement.

You can spam, hard cast, the same ability and get decent results. Buff, long cast, dot, spam, spam, spam.

Just casting dark flare, I watch enemies melt. And that's not particularly effective thing to do.

Imo you need a good guild or group of friends. Most content is pretty easy now, so you don't have to be in the top 5%.

WhiskeyMick

The issue is players who consider themselves "elitist" going around putting people down, they're the same kids who "what yu cant no scope you're trash". It's disgusting, demeaning, and down right just not cool. People need to get off their walking on mounts and realize this is a game, and that they're not changing the world, helping the community, or feeding starving children with their faster than your trial speed. Bragging rights your on the top of the leaderboard because your in yur early twenties and just spent all your free time horse glued in a chair on a weekend? Beware the fresh air, and next time youre at the bar make sure your pick up line is " Hey honey here's a selfie of me at the top of ESO "......." weekly trial, wanna see me weave a boss down?"

Artjuh90

people like the op of this treath
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/232053/ladder-immunity-has-to-be-removes#latest
just ignore them and search other people to play with

kevlarto_ESO

I wonder how many people play ESO and do not even know of animation canceling or find out at higher levels, if animation canceling is going to be a permanent part of the game, there should be a Tutorial explaining it when you start as a new player.

Glaiceana

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I wonder how many people play ESO and do not even know of animation canceling or find out at higher levels, if animation canceling is going to be a permanent part of the game, there should be a Tutorial explaining it when you start as a new player.

True, I didn't know it was a thing until I saw it talked about here on the forums, then watched a video to see what it looked like in action.

Belidos

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

i feel like im being punished

Don't complain, some people pay good money for that

DenniMyuu

I don't see a huge DPS loss as long as your rotation is on point tbh. I don't use animation canceling at all usually and my DPS is just fine.

Arunei

I animation cancel w/o even meaning to most of the time. I have a habit of spamming light attacks AND my various skills. I don't cancel on purpose and have no desire to learn how to effectively. I always run with Guildies > PUGs, which means I never need to deal with elitist players who demand best gear, enchants, specific CPs, etc.

Find yourself a good Guild or two, OP, and you won't need to worry about grouping with people who kick you for stupid reasons like not doing animation cancelling.

Thrasher91604

Animation canceling crystal fragments with light staff attacks is an absolutely HUGE dps increase. Really, it's a must for sorcerers who like to spam frags. Yes I fall in that category. Don't worry PVE only.

Miszou

Kutsuu wrote: »

Without animation canceling they'll have to throw out the priority system and let the "GCD" that already exists apply to all abilities every time you perform any action. That means you hit a light attack or an ability, and half a second later you need to block or dodge... tough luck. You're locked out. Maybe they could make it so using another ability during that GCD still allows you to use it, but cancels all benefits/damage from whatever action you cancelled... but that's going to drive people crazy also. Think if you did a full heavy attack on an enemy then went to block or dodge or press an attack ability, only to realize you pressed it a split second too soon and lost your whole heavy attack.

Isn't that sort of how "real life" works anyway..? I mean, if I'm throwing a punch at a boxing opponent, at some point I've "committed" to the punch and no matter what I do, I'm not going to be able to pull it back and turn it into a block or a jump or something instead.

Being able to cancel an attack animation and replace a two-handed-sword swing with a block midway through the arc.... that's just silly.

Kutsuu wrote: »

The reason I'm making these points is because it's too late to realistically expect a complete overhaul of the combat system to be more like WoW with cooldowns, a normal GCD, and ability queue with "off GCD" abilities. The off GCD thing doesn't work in a game with no cooldowns, or else you're using off GCD abilities during every GCD cycle in order to maximize damage... and there you go back to it being "too hard" to get max DPS. So for a normal GCD to be implemented, but still have abilities be off GCD so they are still responsive (dodge/block/weaponswap/bash/etc), you need cooldowns too. Cooldowns don't work so well with the limited set of abilities in this game, so again you're talking a very serious overhaul.

It doesn't need a global cooldown... it just needs to allow a committed action to play out in a way that makes sense.

Kutsuu wrote: »

Your average person can pick up light/medium canceling muscle memory in a couple hours of grinding mobs. From there you can develop block or bash canceling the active skills if you want... but simple medium cancelling is plenty enough to do 95% of your max potential in PVE on most classes.

One of the simplest ways to pick up medium attack weaving is to stand around doing heavy attacks a bit and get accustomed to the animation your character does when it FIRST pulls the weapon back for the wind up. Once you have that down, the rest is simple. Hold down your light/heavy attack button. Yep just keep it held down and never let it go. When you see your character wind back for a heavy attack, begin rapidly pressing your DPS ability keybind, whatever that might be. Pretty early in the heavy attack animation, you will perform your DPS ability, then your character will start to wind up for another heavy attack. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you'll get a feel for WHEN you can interrupt the heavy attack with your DPS ability so you don't have to spam the button much at all. So with the medium attack weave, you're simply holding down the light/heavy attack button the entire time, and pressing your DPS ability key at regular intervals. This requires very little coordination and the visual cue is very obvious.

With light attack weaving, it's just tapping a couple of buttons quickly. First tap your light attack, then immediately press your DPS ability keybind. Wait roughly 1 second and do it again. Over time you'll get a feel for how fast you can do this.

This whole explanation - while detailed and very informative - comes off as nothing more than "how to" guide on exploiting combat mechanics. No offense to you for explaining it, but I have to raise an eyebrow to everyone that believes this is a legitimate way to play.

Tamanous

I just learned to embrace it. PC gaming is about complexity and options and hosts a wide variety of macro supported peripherals. I just set macros for my mmo mouse and honestly it makes the game even more relaxing to play.

I set all 12 side mouse buttons to cast powers (with built in light attack animation cancelling where applicable) so even if I use a second weapon skill it just swaps weapon and back to primary. The game basically plays like a normal mmo now with 12 power slots instead of 6 readied only. Makes playing more like the style I am used to (I prefer mmos with 20+ abilities available at all time. That is where the complexity and strategy I want comes from). Still having to dodge, block, light/heavy attack on top adds to the total so it starts to be comparable.

NoMoreChillies

OP dont worry about it
You can complete almost all content without it, just by knowing the mechanics

IF you want to run dungeons i will tank them for you anytime you need.

PC NA add me and have fun again.

LadyNalcarya

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

i know its a dead horse but......

Animation cancelling, i simply just cant get it down. i have tried and tried for hours on end practicing it over and over again, iv watched videos, read guides and i still cant get it down. so my dps suffers form it, i miss out on content because of it. iv gotten ridiculed in 4 man dungeons for not doing it, so i stopped doing them, i havnt done any trails, since i cant do it(iv gotten kicked out out of pug groups, so i stopped doing trails). i get owned in PvP all the time since i cant do it.

i know ZOS has said they like and will not be doing anything about it, to me this sounds like they just dont have any clues on how to stop it.

i know im not the only out there like this.

so what i am supposed to do? i really do enjoy/love this game but if i cant simply do the content whats the point?

and before anyone says it ill say it first
"if you cant animation cancel then you just suck and should find a different game"

Umm... Sorry, but you're exaggerating. A lot.
"Weaving" can boost your dps, but if its so low that you're getting kicked from groups, its certainly not the main problem.
Can you tell me what kind of build are you using? Because you can pull enough dps to do pledges and even trials without weaving. Sure, it wont be absolutely top notch, but it will be acceptable.

icontested

gimpdrb14_ESO wrote: »

i know its a dead horse but......

Animation cancelling, i simply just cant get it down. i have tried and tried for hours on end practicing it over and over again, iv watched videos, read guides and i still cant get it down. so my dps suffers form it, i miss out on content because of it. iv gotten ridiculed in 4 man dungeons for not doing it, so i stopped doing them, i havnt done any trails, since i cant do it(iv gotten kicked out out of pug groups, so i stopped doing trails). i get owned in PvP all the time since i cant do it.

i know ZOS has said they like and will not be doing anything about it, to me this sounds like they just dont have any clues on how to stop it.

i know im not the only out there like this.

so what i am supposed to do? i really do enjoy/love this game but if i cant simply do the content whats the point?

and before anyone says it ill say it first
"if you cant animation cancel then you just suck and should find a different game"

Is this a real post? Sorry for the doubts, but feeling punished.. Isn't that extreme?

Do you know what punishment is? Getting shot in real life.. That's punishment

LadyNalcarya

And btw, weaving is not going to give an instant 20k dps boost. Its not THAT good.

Zhoyzu

Im actually in your boat too.

I couldnt figure out a build with my night blade to get a dps to the levels others wanted and when i did figure it out it wasnt good enough.

So i said F#C% YOU and started tanking with my NB instead. I can still DPS just fine i just dont with tool bags.

My advice is to join a sizable guild or two and be friendly as hell even if you hate people and just want to watch the world burn. That way theyll enjoy your company and wont really care about your DPS as long as its good enough to pull your own weight and not drag the group down.

Social guilds are win-win. PvE centric endgame guilds are cancer.

LadyNalcarya

Zhoyzu wrote: »

PvE centric endgame guilds are cancer.

Nobody forces you to join these guilds.

Zhoyzu

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

PvE centric endgame guilds are cancer.

Nobody forces you to join these guilds.

and as such im not in them.

Nifty2g

animation canceling is mainly for pve to max your dps idk about worrying about it in pvp is all that needed
even so, the amount of people who animation cancel is vastly minimum these days, all the guys who played back in beta who were very into the game, a lot moved on most guys don't normally do it these days just fyi