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Remember the days when there was no AoE cap? *dreamy eyes*
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Removal of AOE caps is probably one of the top 2 dumbest design decisions they could possibly make right now.
reasons as to why this is would help your argument here...
Because it serves absolutely no purpose other to make PVE and PVP easier for the better-geared. It's just a thinly veiled attempt to further nerf the PVP newcomers into such a state of oblivion that they will become flatly ineffective in PVP. If my entire gig in Cyro consisted of showing up, joining a large group, then getting butchered by 5 players I would just find a different PVP game. "Git gud" doesn't work on casuals bro.
I mean, if you absolutely want to see Cyrodiil die go ahead and remove AOE caps. Or if you just want to see the game die in general keep up with these ideas.
How about you get some proper gear then and play the game aye?
I do quite fine in PVP in the very rare event I do PVP.
Unfortunately you do not pay the bills to keep this game running. The developers intended Cyro to be accessed and played by level 10+.
If you do not think within that constraint you need to find a new game, it's that simple.
What does AOE caps have to do with level 10 players. Are you inferring there is no place for a lower level outside of a large zerg that is receiving artificial mitigation beyond the fact that he already outnumbers his opponent?
That is EXACTLY what I'm implying.
Youd be wrong and have developed a need to be coddled - which is ironic because you have usmc at the front of your name. Theres a non-vet campaign for level 10s for starters. Aside from that, putting in artificial mechanics doesnt really help anyone. As soon as that 24 man group half filled with level 10s hit a group of 24 v16s with top equipment, they will experience nothing more than what you posted.
The things youre complaining about actually have no relation to the argument of AOE caps. AOE caps stops players who want to either play solo or in a small group of friends from having a place to do it in Cyro. If you need to hide behind 23 other players to feel relevant so be it. But theres no reason you should take half damage while the 24 of you kill 2 people.
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usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Removal of AOE caps is probably one of the top 2 dumbest design decisions they could possibly make right now.
reasons as to why this is would help your argument here...
Because it serves absolutely no purpose other to make PVE and PVP easier for the better-geared. It's just a thinly veiled attempt to further nerf the PVP newcomers into such a state of oblivion that they will become flatly ineffective in PVP. If my entire gig in Cyro consisted of showing up, joining a large group, then getting butchered by 5 players I would just find a different PVP game. "Git gud" doesn't work on casuals bro.
I mean, if you absolutely want to see Cyrodiil die go ahead and remove AOE caps. Or if you just want to see the game die in general keep up with these ideas.
How about you get some proper gear then and play the game aye?
I do quite fine in PVP in the very rare event I do PVP.
Unfortunately you do not pay the bills to keep this game running. The developers intended Cyro to be accessed and played by level 10+.
If you do not think within that constraint you need to find a new game, it's that simple.
What does AOE caps have to do with level 10 players. Are you inferring there is no place for a lower level outside of a large zerg that is receiving artificial mitigation beyond the fact that he already outnumbers his opponent?
That is EXACTLY what I'm implying.
Youd be wrong and have developed a need to be coddled - which is ironic because you have usmc at the front of your name. Theres a non-vet campaign for level 10s for starters. Aside from that, putting in artificial mechanics doesnt really help anyone. As soon as that 24 man group half filled with level 10s hit a group of 24 v16s with top equipment, they will experience nothing more than what you posted.
The things youre complaining about actually have no relation to the argument of AOE caps. AOE caps stops players who want to either play solo or in a small group of friends from having a place to do it in Cyro. If you need to hide behind 23 other players to feel relevant so be it. But theres no reason you should take half damage while the 24 of you kill 2 people.
Stand up and stretch kiddo. The mental gymnastics you are trying to do here is next level. You're taking this so seriously that you just came at me sideways for posting quite the obvious reason as to why this would be a dumb design decision.
Does the removal of AOE caps bring in new players?
Nope.
Does it promote newer players to stay in the game?
Nope.
Does it make money?
Nope.
Keep the smartassery to yourself and exercise your upper body before your mouth.0331
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GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Removal of AOE caps is probably one of the top 2 dumbest design decisions they could possibly make right now.
reasons as to why this is would help your argument here...
Because it serves absolutely no purpose other to make PVE and PVP easier for the better-geared. It's just a thinly veiled attempt to further nerf the PVP newcomers into such a state of oblivion that they will become flatly ineffective in PVP. If my entire gig in Cyro consisted of showing up, joining a large group, then getting butchered by 5 players I would just find a different PVP game. "Git gud" doesn't work on casuals bro.
I mean, if you absolutely want to see Cyrodiil die go ahead and remove AOE caps. Or if you just want to see the game die in general keep up with these ideas.
If you don't want to get AOE'd by a group of five, don't blob up together, spread out. AOEs only work when you're all in one spot.
what a stupid thing to say. spread out? so you want everyone to just be a blade of grass and have a lawnmower cut straight threw. the only solution to counter is another ball group healing through the aoe.
removing aoe caps will just assist ball groups. you cant damage whats getting mass aoe healed.
you need to cap barrier and purge and any other skill not effected by the aoe cap.PS4 NA DC0 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭The whole notion of countering the zerg by allowing the few to blow apart the many is pretty insane. In a universe where such things are possible, you wouldn't have melee combat, body armour, castle walls and other things that define the pre-modern warfare that characterises the ES universe.
Rather than look for bombs and machine guns, the devs should look at how zergs differ from pre-modern armies and try to address the issue from that angle.
Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!0 -
Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭The whole notion of countering the zerg by allowing the few to blow apart the many is pretty insane. In a universe where such things are possible, you wouldn't have melee combat, body armour, castle walls and other things that define the pre-modern warfare that characterises the ES universe.
Rather than look for bombs and machine guns, the devs should look at how zergs differ from pre-modern armies and try to address the issue from that angle.
In the middle ages it was not possible to stack 100 people on a 1qm space because people have bodies also if it was possible and someone hit that 1qm space with a trebuchet those 100 people would haven been porridgePC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)2 -
Wycks✭✭✭✭Zergs have been ruining this game since about 2 months after relase, there are many counters that could be done but aren't.
It's to easy right now to blob around and skilled players just leave the game because that's just not fun.
Remove AOE caps
Remove barrier, negate and purge from effecting groups.
Now you have a fun game with more tactics, instead of lemmings. You might need to actuall call out targets and co-ordinate things instead of shouting out "barrier- + negate + spin to win + det".
It's ridiculous that DOAC had anti zerg tactics but ESO is the complete opposite, and we all know who is behind it..The numbers thing is always going to be there, but it’s more down to player skill and there are ways through ability choice to configure a group to be stronger vs. large groups of people. - BRAIN WHEELER - 2012 - LOL1 -
Chori✭✭✭✭briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »I remember days when zergs had to play safe, have scouts and different specs to deal with enemies instead of just grouping on one spot like inbreds.
AOE craps still here 1 year after introduction.
Made worse with battle level change.
This with the lags? I question why ZOS suck so bad when it comes to PvP
I wish I got to play the game back then
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usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I literally know no other way to make you guys understand why it isn't going to happen.
You have way too much emotion invested in this.0331
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Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »The whole notion of countering the zerg by allowing the few to blow apart the many is pretty insane. In a universe where such things are possible, you wouldn't have melee combat, body armour, castle walls and other things that define the pre-modern warfare that characterises the ES universe.
Rather than look for bombs and machine guns, the devs should look at how zergs differ from pre-modern armies and try to address the issue from that angle.
In the middle ages it was not possible to stack 100 people on a 1qm space because people have bodies
Indeed. So the lack of collision and friendly fire means that compared to a medieval or ancient army
- manoeuverability of individuals and the group as a whole is too high
- too many soldiers have a clear line of sight and are able to fire on the enemy
Now if THAT is the problem, then THAT is what anti-zerg measures should focus on. Trying to counter one form of weirdness with another ("zerg buster abilities or other over-powered AoE") is not going to make the game better.
A zerg should't be able to blitz/swarm the way it does, but neither should any individual or small group be able to walk up to a massive group and expect to achieve anything except a swift death.
Edited by Muizer on November 13, 2015 9:07PMPlease stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!1 -
Cryhavoc✭✭✭Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.0331
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Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭Ignore my comment I missread somethingEdited by Springt-Über-Zwerge on November 13, 2015 9:57PMPC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)0 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Regardless of AoE Caps, players in large groups should not have incoming damage reduced just because there are more of them. That just makes ball groups that much stronger. They already have an advantage in numbers, that should be enough of a bonus in itself.1 -
kuscoe✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.
Really because it seems otherwise
I.E. Hating on people's opinions becuase you think you know what is good for this game (despite not pvping frequently)0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.
Really because it seems otherwise
I.E. Hating on people's opinions becuase you think you know what is good for this game (despite not pvping frequently)
Let's take an objective look at this.
Small group = 2-6 people.
Zerg group = 20+ people
It doesn't take an 8th grade pre-algebra student to realize that empowering the 2-6 is not beneficial for the masses and the long term health of the gaming community.
0331
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Springt-Über-Zwerge✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.
Really because it seems otherwise
I.E. Hating on people's opinions becuase you think you know what is good for this game (despite not pvping frequently)
Let's take an objective look at this.
Small group = 2-6 people.
Zerg group = 20+ people
It doesn't take an 8th grade pre-algebra student to realize that empowering the 2-6 is not beneficial for the masses and the long term health of the gaming community.
It makes sense to empower them so far that each player is equal to each player of the oponent fraction so if you want to win a 20 vs 5 you have to use your brain instead of just poping proxi det and spaming steel tornadoPC,EU, EP
Der-über-Zwerge-springt (Argonian, Magplar), Surtur Velothi (Dunmer, Magdk), Jaqene H'ghar (Imperial, Stamblade), Puppyslayer (Orc, Stamdk), Dagoth Era (Dunmer, Magblade), Æthmon Trevas (Altmer, Magsorc), Der-Zuletzt-Lacht (Argonian, Magden), Sir-Lanzeflott (Redguard, Stamplar)0 -
RAGUNAnoOne✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.
Really because it seems otherwise
I.E. Hating on people's opinions becuase you think you know what is good for this game (despite not pvping frequently)
Let's take an objective look at this.
Small group = 2-6 people.
Zerg group = 20+ people
It doesn't take an 8th grade pre-algebra student to realize that empowering the 2-6 is not beneficial for the masses and the long term health of the gaming community.
Yet at the same time it is not beneficial to the " masses and the long term health of the gaming community" for the ONLY way to fight being to zergball. with this comment being true we may as well just end PvP altogether as both solutions will lead down this path. I would choose the lesser of 2 evils and have the AOE cap removed so tactics like siege will actually be worth something. in a poll made before the cap the majority agreed it was a bad idea and now after the cap I bet you 5000 gold that that poll will still stand.
it is obvious to the point that a second grader can tell that that no one is going to change your mind so I won't even try but I have to ask is zergging really that fun to you when you have NO risk whatsoever?Edited by RAGUNAnoOne on November 14, 2015 1:39AMPS4 NA
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kuscoe✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.
Really because it seems otherwise
I.E. Hating on people's opinions becuase you think you know what is good for this game (despite not pvping frequently)
Let's take an objective look at this.
Small group = 2-6 people.
Zerg group = 20+ people
It doesn't take an 8th grade pre-algebra student to realize that empowering the 2-6 is not beneficial for the masses and the long term health of the gaming community.
Ok so by your "logic" empowering the few is bad for the game but there is just as many small groups (if not more) then there is zergball groups
if these Zergballs arent wiping people with 4+ less people then them then they suck and should get out of PvP
Anyway this thread is about reducing the lag which removing AoE caps would help
which if I not mistaken is what everyone wants?
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usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.
Really because it seems otherwise
I.E. Hating on people's opinions becuase you think you know what is good for this game (despite not pvping frequently)
Let's take an objective look at this.
Small group = 2-6 people.
Zerg group = 20+ people
It doesn't take an 8th grade pre-algebra student to realize that empowering the 2-6 is not beneficial for the masses and the long term health of the gaming community.
It makes sense to empower them so far that each player is equal to each player of the oponent fraction so if you want to win a 20 vs 5 you have to use your brain instead of just poping proxi det and spaming steel tornado
I don't disagree and it's a very valid complaint.
But that has absolutely nothing to do with AOE caps whatsoever. I get that is where this whole "Remove AOE caps so we can hit them with bigger hammers than they hit us" spawns from - but it simply won't happen because not only is it not the proper fix, it's also creates more problems than it solves. QQing because you got steamrolled by 20 people isn't a legitimate basis to form an argument on.
This is how the Cold War started. And we saw how that all panned out. Pretty boring game concept.Edited by usmcjdking on November 14, 2015 1:44AM0331
06020 -
Spearshard✭✭✭✭Ah the aeon caps debate again, makes me want to get out some popcorn, these are always fun.0
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usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'd have to ask how on earth anyone would determine that this would reduce lag.usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.
Really because it seems otherwise
I.E. Hating on people's opinions becuase you think you know what is good for this game (despite not pvping frequently)
Let's take an objective look at this.
Small group = 2-6 people.
Zerg group = 20+ people
It doesn't take an 8th grade pre-algebra student to realize that empowering the 2-6 is not beneficial for the masses and the long term health of the gaming community.
Ok so by your "logic" empowering the few is bad for the game but there is just as many small groups (if not more) then there is zergball groups
if these Zergballs arent wiping people with 4+ less people then them then they suck and should get out of PvP
Anyway this thread is about reducing the lag which removing AoE caps would help
which if I not mistaken is what everyone wants?
*at any given time this could be true. But over a period of time it is not. It's just not a good logical comparison.RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Most of the arguments in favor of AOE caps are made by players who admit that they do not PvP.
That is my interpretation.
I'm not making an argument. At no point did I even suggest where my personal stance is on AOE caps. But FYI my personal stance is that I do not care whether they exist or don't.
Really because it seems otherwise
I.E. Hating on people's opinions becuase you think you know what is good for this game (despite not pvping frequently)
Let's take an objective look at this.
Small group = 2-6 people.
Zerg group = 20+ people
It doesn't take an 8th grade pre-algebra student to realize that empowering the 2-6 is not beneficial for the masses and the long term health of the gaming community.
Yet at the same time it is not beneficial to the " masses and the long term health of the gaming community" for the ONLY way to fight being to zergball. with this comment being true we may as well just end PvP altogether as both solutions will lead down this path. I would choose the lesser of 2 evils and have the AOE cap removed so tactics like siege will actually be worth something. in a poll made before the cap the majority agreed it was a bad idea and now after the cap I bet you 5000 gold that that poll will still stand.
it is obvious to the point that a second grader can tell that that no one is going to change your mind so I won't even try but I have to ask is zergging really that fun to you when you have NO risk whatsoever?
The answer to your zergballing problem cannot be provided to you by a series of buffs/nerfs to zergballers while maintaining a healthy game. I suggest you start here:
globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-8/index.html
Good little read and made for Class B ASVABers so anyone can understand it.Edited by usmcjdking on November 14, 2015 2:09AM0331
06020 -
Sentinel✭✭✭✭@usmcjdking
Please, please, read this thread, so you might better inform yourself about what actually will happen with AoE cap removal rather than assumptions...
Myth AoE Cap
One main summary of what AoE caps at the moment do, is that with more people in one spot, a group is artificially more defensive, because any damage coming at them gets reduced with more people in one spot. Removing AoE caps would not 'empower' small groups, making them able to be on a level higher than large groups, it would remove the current state of being 'empowered' held by large groups (due to the damage mitigation). If AoE caps were removed, damage received by all players would be equal to damage put out by other players. That's it. A small group versus a large group of equal individual damage and healing will still lose, but if a small group is able to surpass the large groups total damage and healing, without AoE caps, the small group can now prevail (whereas with AoE caps as they are, the large group has an innate advantage because it has a more damage mitigation than the small group).
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usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@usmcjdking
Please, please, read this thread, so you might better inform yourself about what actually will happen with AoE cap removal rather than assumptions...
Myth AoE Cap
One main summary of what AoE caps at the moment do, is that with more people in one spot, a group is artificially more defensive, because any damage coming at them gets reduced with more people in one spot. Removing AoE caps would not 'empower' small groups, making them able to be on a level higher than large groups, it would remove the current state of being 'empowered' held by large groups (due to the damage mitigation). If AoE caps were removed, damage received by all players would be equal to damage put out by other players. That's it. A small group versus a large group of equal individual damage and healing will still lose, but if a small group is able to surpass the large groups total damage and healing, without AoE caps, the small group can now prevail (whereas with AoE caps as they are, the large group has an innate advantage because it has a more damage mitigation than the small group).
O....kay?
So, in the really real world, it's generally a really...really bad idea to engage a force much larger than yourself head on with no real thought (ulti dumps and calling for barriers or chaining them or whatever it is that goes on in the TS are not real thought.). Like, people die for no reason. Suddenly, because there is no exception to that IRL rule in ESO, it becomes a serious gamebreaking issue in fantasy land that we solve by increasing AOE damage? Let's not talk about doing the dumbest tactical maneuver you could possibly do, let's talk about why the developers feel we should get punished for doing something that has been proven to fail spectacularly in almost every historical context you could imagine.
I honestly don't know what to tell you guys. ZOS won't change their mind because it would be stupid to. If you can't see the big picture with how they can maximize and manage their player base keeping them engaged with PVE and PVP content then threads like this will continue to pop up. If you don't bother to learn basic tactics that anyone can employ in a game designed around siege warfare, then I don't know what to tell you. If you would like to learn - I'm old and I would be happy to.Edited by usmcjdking on November 14, 2015 3:12AM0331
06020 -
Sentinel✭✭✭✭@usmcjdking
You're not doing too well in explaining your logic. Call me stupid, but please make whatever point it is you're trying to make clearer. I've explained myself (to the best of my ability) and in order to even engage in a conversation, I need to understand your line of thinking...
Otherwise, this is likely pointless and completely irrelevant.
(BTW, that link I provided gives the proof as to why removing AoE caps will at least reduce lag, which is the main point of this thread: obtaining lag reduction so PvP can be enjoyable)0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭While that dude put in a lot of time and effort into his lag thread (and he's probably right), that's not anywhere near convincing enough to even bother investigating and recreating on an isolated network to test server stability.@usmcjdking
You're not doing too well in explaining your logic. Call me stupid, but please make whatever point it is you're trying to make clearer. I've explained myself (to the best of my ability) and in order to even engage in a conversation, I need to understand your line of thinking...
Otherwise, this is likely pointless and completely irrelevant.
(BTW, that link I provided gives the proof as to why removing AoE caps will at least reduce lag, which is the main point of this thread: obtaining lag reduction so PvP can be enjoyable)
Since when was reducing lag the main point of this thread?0331
06020 -
Sentinel✭✭✭✭@usmcjdking
Why I perceive the purpose of the thread as I do....briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »I remember days when zergs had to play safe, have scouts and different specs to deal with enemies instead of just grouping on one spot like inbreds.
AOE craps still here 1 year after introduction.
Made worse with battle level change.
This with the lags? I question why ZOS suck so bad when it comes to PvPSpringt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »The aoe cap is one of the problems causing the lag because its way more calculations to make deciding which target to hit than to just hit all targets within range
Tell me why the argument he put forth is not convincing and not worth devoting any attention. Why it is convincing and valuable is because it gives a basis for understanding how ZOS can improve the server load, and thus make the quality of PvP better. If the quality of PvP is better, player retention is higher and people actually enjoy the game; it is profitable for ZOS in the end.Edited by Sentinel on November 14, 2015 3:48AM1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@usmcjdking
Why I perceive the purpose of the thread as I do....briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »I remember days when zergs had to play safe, have scouts and different specs to deal with enemies instead of just grouping on one spot like inbreds.
AOE craps still here 1 year after introduction.
Made worse with battle level change.
This with the lags? I question why ZOS suck so bad when it comes to PvPSpringt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »The aoe cap is one of the problems causing the lag because its way more calculations to make deciding which target to hit than to just hit all targets within range
Tell me why the argument he put forth is not convincing and not worth devoting any attention. Why it is convincing and valuable is because it gives a basis for understanding how ZOS can improve the server load, and thus make the quality of PvP better. If the quality of PvP is better, player retention is higher and people actually enjoy the game; it is profitable for ZOS in the end.
Firstly, that was not in the original post.
Secondly, his home simulator is in no way indicative of whatever server(s) ZOS is hosting Cyrodiil on.
Thirdly, why would a calculations issue on a server have ANYTHING TO DO with LOS networking? Is the server sending/requesting more information back to the client than it was prior to? IDK but that would be the only question I would bother even asking. Processing delay =/= transmission rate. Two wildly different concepts.
I honestly don't think you could even come close to maxing out any server's capabilities with recent software unless it's some sort of folding. It can crash, have console errors, all sorts of nasty stuff. But as far as making it work too hard...lol nope.Edited by usmcjdking on November 14, 2015 4:12AM0331
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Sentinel✭✭✭✭@usmcjdking
Your argument is that because his test was not officially done with data that comes from ZOS's server it is therefore invalid? His data was completed using the underlying statistics one would assume of a server, and therefore they would be highly likely to be proven true on ZOS's server. If anything, it at least is compelling enough to posit a test on ZOS's servers themselves to see if it would physically be proven true, rather disregarding it for semantics.
If the server is stuck calculating who gets hit with what when a group of 60vs60 (example), then it's system is held up from other actions, thus causing lag... (in a nutshell). ZOS has even stated themselves that lag is caused by excessive calculations on the side of the server.
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usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Latency is measured between your machine and their POP router. The latency is created between the POP router and your machine - they are responsible for absolutely none of that. Latency is nearly always created by the bottleneck which is undoubtedly going to be some random LOS transmission device in Kentucy their ISP is using between your machine and their network. If they are trying to push too much data across and being throttled at the core router, then that is a separate issue.
Excessive calculations on a server is not an acceptable answer to any server admins unless they really are using a potato.0331
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Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »@usmcjdking
Please, please, read this thread, so you might better inform yourself about what actually will happen with AoE cap removal rather than assumptions...
Myth AoE Cap
One main summary of what AoE caps at the moment do, is that with more people in one spot, a group is artificially more defensive, because any damage coming at them gets reduced with more people in one spot. Removing AoE caps would not 'empower' small groups, making them able to be on a level higher than large groups, it would remove the current state of being 'empowered' held by large groups (due to the damage mitigation). If AoE caps were removed, damage received by all players would be equal to damage put out by other players. That's it. A small group versus a large group of equal individual damage and healing will still lose, but if a small group is able to surpass the large groups total damage and healing, without AoE caps, the small group can now prevail (whereas with AoE caps as they are, the large group has an innate advantage because it has a more damage mitigation than the small group).
O....kay?
So, in the really real world, it's generally a really...really bad idea to engage a force much larger than yourself head on with no real thought (ulti dumps and calling for barriers or chaining them or whatever it is that goes on in the TS are not real thought.). Like, people die for no reason. Suddenly, because there is no exception to that IRL rule in ESO, it becomes a serious gamebreaking issue in fantasy land that we solve by increasing AOE damage? Let's not talk about doing the dumbest tactical maneuver you could possibly do, let's talk about why the developers feel we should get punished for doing something that has been proven to fail spectacularly in almost every historical context you could imagine.
I honestly don't know what to tell you guys. ZOS won't change their mind because it would be stupid to. If you can't see the big picture with how they can maximize and manage their player base keeping them engaged with PVE and PVP content then threads like this will continue to pop up. If you don't bother to learn basic tactics that anyone can employ in a game designed around siege warfare, then I don't know what to tell you. If you would like to learn - I'm old and I would be happy to.
I'm just going to point out that making correlations to real life scenarios is completely pointless and you are essentially presenting a non-argument.2013
rip decibel0