Maelstrom weapons too hard to get?

OrphanHelgen

K_taan wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Apology to @Xantaria for accusing him/her doing exploit. But that doesnt mean this person can say how easy it is, if his score tells us he proborly spent 12 hours in arena and died 400 times.

You know mate, they will nerf it eventually. Just no doubt in that. They always do like this and not only ZOS.

ZOS made a challenge for hardcore players and once its no longer a challenge for them (cause they will learn every mechanic and what exactly will happen next) they will nerf it so the most of the players can get access. Like first nerf to vWGT and vICP was in 2 weeks right?

I think they nerf this Arena in 1 month regardless of whine and etc. Its just normal practice for game companies

Yes I think so too. I dont want them to nerf tho, but it would be nice to have a chance to earn the weapons by completing normal or something

Xantaria

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

So you actually call this easy. It is the hardest content in the game. How can it be easy? You have played this game so long yourself with content 50 times less difficult then this. Why have you still sticked with the game before? If this is easy, what you call the other dungeons then?

I'm sticking with it because there is nothing else really ... Also there has been Sanctum Hardmode Which was incredibly hard at the start. Same with Sanctum Speed Run. Those were REAL challenges that took months to be completed.

vMA gets destroyed by 200 people within a week. I measure Difficutly of content by how long players need to take it down.

Xantaria

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

K_taan wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

[...]
I have heard some say its not to hard and don't want to nerf it. I think thats pretty selfish to say, when we can't even fill up the leaderboard to max.
I have no problem with the game having difficult content like this [...]

This is the FIRST week. and already TWOHUNDRED completions on EU. You call this difficult or hard? *Gasp*

It's way too easy if anyone is able to complete it on the first week. People are going in with 0 knowledge about mechanics and 0 adjustments to gear and clear it. This is NOT hard. And in a month people will faceroll this arena in around an hour and less. So can't we just drop our nerfhammers and wait for everybody to faceroll the content?

@Xantaria I see your score on the leaderboard are 300 ish. This is due to an exploit you used, doing the arena on normal then changing to veteran. If this is too easy, why are you using this exploit? Why dont you have a score with 20k+? Have you ever done all stages on veteran? I have, that means I am better then you, and I also have valid fair points about this arena. I dont like people like you using exploits, having a selfish personality and trick people into thinking you are better then you actually are, just to gain respect. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , what do you think about this exploit, and should we let players like this destroying the community and players confidence by telling we are noobs if we cant faceroll the arena withing an hour, when the truth is that they are just doing the normal arena themself?

This is not exploit. Its a lot of deaths and long time to make the run. My score on leaderboards is 354 and i clear all myself all on vet. And i have a title STORMPROOF which you can only obtain by killing every boss on vet (Xantaria should also have this). So you owe him an apology.

Apology to @Xantaria for accusing him/her doing exploit. But that doesnt mean this person can say how easy it is, if his score tells us he proborly spent 12 hours in arena and died 400 times.

I went in with 0 knowledge and 0 adjustments to gear for the first time ever, did not play PTS, did not watch guides, and cleared it with ~120 deaths and within 3 hours as a Stamina DK. To make it harder I didn't use Corrosive Armor. :')

Also I do have the title Stormproof. And I still have no idea how to change arena to veteran during a normal run. I have never even been in normal so far.

But please let me in on this how do I change it to Veteran and transfer progression from normal over to it?

OrphanHelgen

Xantaria wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

So you actually call this easy. It is the hardest content in the game. How can it be easy? You have played this game so long yourself with content 50 times less difficult then this. Why have you still sticked with the game before? If this is easy, what you call the other dungeons then?

I'm sticking with it because there is nothing else really ... Also there has been Sanctum Hardmode Which was incredibly hard at the start. Same with Sanctum Speed Run. Those were REAL challenges that took months to be completed.

vMA gets destroyed by 200 people within a week. I measure Difficutly of content by how long players need to take it down.

Fair reason, but remember that a 12 man trial needs 12 players to cooperate as well, witch is harder then the content itself. Solo content is one player only, witch makes it easier to adjust one players build compare to 12 people.

I have never said I have problems with the difficulty, but I dont like the idea that only a very small percentage of the players have acces to them.

BabyMyst

can we just take one moment to acknowledge that this has been live for literally 1 week. why would people be calling for nerfs or adjustments yet? enjoy the challenge. i am having a blast working my butt off every day. every day i get one round closer, one round better, one round cleaner, one round faster..

you pay for a game to be fun and challenging, not to have everything handed to you on a platter

Dymence

Vaelen wrote: »

I disagree, when the PvE content (YES this is PAID PvE content) cannot be completed with every class and build in the game, especially when the majority of those builds that fail are DKs...
Is this a L2P issue? You have to come up with a hasty generalization that almost all DKs are noobs and cannot play their class correctly, which is a fallacy.
Does this require tweaks, balances and nerfs to the class balances? Most likely.

Highlighted two keywords in your post.

So because it is paid PVE content, I should be able to go in there with a magicka sorc with heavy armor and a bow and complete it? No. You need to learn to optimize your build to fullfill the task at hand, and not be stubborn because you don't like trying to change your build.

Also as @Ezareth said, I've completed it on the pts with a dk while I'm absolutely clueless about DKs. My highest level dk on live is lvl 34.

fanta

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

@Xantaria I see your score on the leaderboard are 300 ish. This is due to an exploit you used, doing the arena on normal then changing to veteran. If this is too easy, why are you using this exploit? Why dont you have a score with 20k+? Have you ever done all stages on veteran? I have, that means I am better then you, and I also have valid fair points about this arena. I dont like people like you using exploits, having a selfish personality and trick people into thinking you are better then you actually are, just to gain respect. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , what do you think about this exploit, and should we let players like this destroying the community and players confidence by telling we are noobs if we cant faceroll the arena withing an hour, when the truth is that they are just doing the normal arena themself?

This is due to an exploit? How can you accuse someone like that...? If you can't beat the arena, please don't say things like this..
People who have 300 ish score on leaderboard are those people who didn't try vMA on PTS, they really tried hard, kept dying while learning the mechanic, my friends who have 300 ish scores spent 8-12+ hours inside the vet arena. 300 ish score comes from more than 100+ death and spend too much time to complete it. Although the socre is not high enough, at least they passed it, please respect those players.

Also you can ask them to link their achievement to proof it, it requires to kill all the bosses in vet mode.

tist

10 different weapons.. assuming 9 traits. Not trying to do 90+ Runs to maybe get the weapon I want.

OrphanHelgen

fanta wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

@Xantaria I see your score on the leaderboard are 300 ish. This is due to an exploit you used, doing the arena on normal then changing to veteran. If this is too easy, why are you using this exploit? Why dont you have a score with 20k+? Have you ever done all stages on veteran? I have, that means I am better then you, and I also have valid fair points about this arena. I dont like people like you using exploits, having a selfish personality and trick people into thinking you are better then you actually are, just to gain respect. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , what do you think about this exploit, and should we let players like this destroying the community and players confidence by telling we are noobs if we cant faceroll the arena withing an hour, when the truth is that they are just doing the normal arena themself?

This is due to an exploit? How can you accuse someone like that...? If you can't beat the arena, please don't say things like this..
People who have 300 ish score on leaderboard are those people who didn't try vMA on PTS, they really tried hard, kept dying while learning the mechanic, my friends who have 300 ish scores spent 8-12+ hours inside the vet arena. 300 ish score comes from more than 100+ death and spend too much time to complete it. Although the socre is not high enough, at least they passed it, please respect those players.

Also you can ask them to link their achievement to proof it, it requires to kill all the bosses in vet mode.

I have heard rumors ingame too, but on forum rumor, I saw it in the comments here http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/229556/status-of-current-live-issues#latest

I asked if the exploit was a rumor and I got this answer:

It's not a rumor. I can reproduce the exploit myself to skip from normal to vet. The reason it works is because it seems the saved state of you in the dungeon isn't different from vet or normal. so basically u can go into normal. work it to the desired stage. then do some things im not going to say. renter the dungeon on vet mode. and presto. ur on vet at the exact stage you left on normal. ur score is 0. and now all you have to do is the last boss.

Atarax

Having a token system makes all kinds of sense. For leaderboard, make it best run counts. Then get rid of the 1x per day thing and make it repeatable.

Perfect.

Rust_in_Peace

Reminder: this thread is not about the arena being too hard, but that it's Effort:Reward factor is skewed when the rng of getting what you want is so bad. Even if you complete the dungeon you're most likely setting yourself up for disappointment if your goal is a weapon. What we need is a solution that keeps the challenge people like while providing rewards for people who are there to get their gear and leave. No one should be forced to grind this for an item if they don't want to.

Flamebeur

I think ppl went off the main thread here a little bit, its about the weapons! isnt it?

MrGrimey

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

I think it's more of a class imbalance issue more than anything, I blitzed through it on my sorc and tried it on my templar and rage quit twice on the 6th boss round.

you can tell by the leaderboards that magicka sorcs and magicka nb are clearly better suited for this content.

This game isn't balanced for solo play though... I'm really surprised that ZOS added a solo arena when the reason that everyone said that zos wouldn't add dueling is because this game isn't balanced for 1v1 and people would complain about class balance.

Now, look... People are complaining about class balance. Look on the other hand, my sorc can't heal like a templar in a group, he can't give other players stamina back or boost their regen. You can't expect all the classes to perform the same solo unless you expect them to all perform the same in a group

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I think OP has some valid points for sure. I was reading the post and having flashbacks. I consider myself to be right of the bell curve in terms of skill, but certainly not at the extreme edge. No, I have not cleared, but I made to last boss and really wish there was a save function. I am sure I will get a clear soon, I just ran out of energy and time. When I got to the last stage, I had a huge FPS loss which somehow fixed itself after I got booted an hour later (thankfully was still in same instance). I was then able to get to the boss pretty easily but I just couldn't keep my attention at that point. The difficulty is very high but manageable, and it should certainly NOT be nerfed anytime soon. I am sure it will be anyways within a month or two. But I think people are missing the point of this thread.

Congrats on those of you that were able to walk in and clear in under 3 hours on your first attempt. Seriously, its an accomplishment and you obviously have some skill. I have a guildie with a no-death run and it blows my mind. You also make up less than 1% of the population if I were to make a wager, and some of the posts I see are no more than arrogant bragging.

I do agree that the bigger issue is that the best in slot weapons have been locked behind this. There has been a problem of power gap that I do think was recently addressed fairly well by the CP cap, but this doesn't really help the problem. If only the best players get the best weapons, there could be some issues. A token system is a good idea for just about any aspect of this game, but especially for this. Make a vendor that sells maelstrom weapons for X amount of tokens, simple enough. If I had an end in site, I would be much more willing to grind this thing for a while.

MLRPZ

4 runs : 2 Maelstrom weapons for me (including the weekly reward) : 1 defending resto staff (mokay), 1 precise 1H axe.
If the RNG is like this, it seems ok-ish to me

jakeedmundson

agreed there should be a save option...but not for every stage... maybe have certain checkpoints... stage 3, 6, etc... Make you get to a certain point before you can say, "ok, i need a break" or "$417! its 11:30 pm... i need to work at 6am!" and log off.

Also... would be nice if you could get a mal weapon from normal mode. just like in DSA to vDSA. (maybe i missed this and you actually can? correct me if i'm wrong)
I have no interest (or open time in my evenings) in spending 3+ hours and 100 deaths for a chance at a v16 mal weapon. That, given my experience with monster helms in vet dungeons, will more than likely not drop for me anyway.

it's perfectly fine if it's hard and time consuming on vet, i know people want that challenge... but it's a little unreasonable not to offer a slightly less powerful (but similar) reward for normal. (even make the drop chance less... i don't care)
Why even do the normal arena if you get nothing for it?

Ezareth

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I like the difficulty of this arena.
But what I don't like, is that the rewards from it (maelstrom weapons) are only rewarded by completing veteran mode.
I have heard some say its not to hard and don't want to nerf it. I think thats pretty selfish to say, when we can't even fill up the leaderboard to max.
I have no problem with the game having difficult content like this and I have learned a lot from it, but I think the rewards could be achievement, leaderboard, titles and maybe costumes or pets. But the weapons are unique and fits many builds, and are also a reason why players was looking forward to this patch.
But right now, only the best of the best are able to get them, and they get leaderboard on multiple characters as well. They already have the advantage of being best, and the fact that they are the only one to gain these weapons, are only making the gap bigger.

I have experienced all veteran stages myself, but it took me several days to get a normal sleeping routine after that. It was just not worth it for me. I got tired and exhausted. I would be more ok with this difficulty if it was able to save the progress. Then you at least have the option to go out, craft or get new gear, change mundus, have a break and then come back again. I don't think the last boss are extremely hard, but since i was so exhausted after the other stages, I couldn't focus properly anymore. I also have had both insane drop in fps and a rollback.

Many of my friends have tried to complete it. They are all experienced players with full vr16 gear, and are good enough to cooperate through Sanctum, and have several vr16 characters. If you were able to complete all trials in update 6, I would say you are a good player. Players like this, are giving up before halfway through veteran Maelstrom. Its fun to test our strength and I like the difficulty, specially where you have to follow a tactic you need to figure out, constantly looking around you and not just braindead dps a boss with a healer behind you. I love it. But if it stays like this, there will be only a few in the world who actually gets the weapons. Even if a player are able to beat it after several hours, its still not sure he will get a weapon reward, and if he gets it, its still many other weapon to get and different traits as well.

A solution could be to get maelstrom coins after completion. Same as trophies and the vaults. After completing veteran, you get 10 coins and can open maelstrom chest. But you only get 1 coin for completing normal (chest still cost 10 coins to open). If you beat normal without deaths, you get 2 coins.
Leaderboards still only counts for veteran of course, so there will still be reasons to do vet. This way, at least someone like myself can actually start dream about a Maelstrom weapon again. Im not getting younger, and I am also colorblind witch makes stage 7 a real struggle. I just don't agree with the hashtag worth on this veteran farming, and I am pretty sure I'm not alone about that. Its sad to only see those unique designed weapons on a picture.

My First clear of VMSA took me 4.5 hours and 132 deaths. My second clear took 3.5 hours and 70 deaths. My Third took 2.5 hours and 25 deaths. My fourth took 2 hours and 19 deaths. Do you see a pattern? The more and more familiar you become with the Arena by running it the better and faster you become. It *is* hard yes, but it is the most enjoyable challenging content this game has ever offered me in anything PvE related and I don't think they should do anything to change it other than fix some minor bugs and such.

Yes and I agree that they should not nerf the difficulty but the difficulty is too much for the maelstrom weapon farm, witch is my point. In DSA, you could get a masters weapon in vr13, one level below the veteran dsa, that rewarded with vr14. I think atleast a vr15 maelstrom weapon should drop in normal, but to be honest, the gap between a vr15 weapon and a vr16 weapon, are larger then the gap between vr13 and 14. This is mainly because of the weapon dmg and stats is gives, witch scales of the major and minor buffs we have that are percentage and not a flat amount. So the higher the value is, the more bang for the buck you get from for example major brutality. Thats why critical hits on wrecking blow and crystal frag are more overpowered then a critical hit on a low slash.

I could agree that they should allow V15 Maelstrom weapons but I think it is acceptable for the best gear to be available to the players who are willing to go through the necessary requirements to attain it and that it shouldn't be easy to get for everyone. If everyone were to obtain the best gear possible then there is little for us to strive to obtain over the next 3 months until the next patch. Even then the best gear should always be unavailable to the majority, that's how *every* MMO that I've played to date has been.

cote-bmsb16_ESO

Dont nerf it. Let them struggle and learn.

Rust_in_Peace

Ezareth wrote: »

I could agree that they should allow V15 Maelstrom weapons but I think it is acceptable for the best gear to be available to the players who are willing to go through the necessary requirements to attain it and that it shouldn't be easy to get for everyone. If everyone were to obtain the best gear possible then there is little for us to strive to obtain over the next 3 months until the next patch. Even then the best gear should always be unavailable to the majority, that's how *every* MMO that I've played to date has been.

What games are still like that? I know WoW hasn't been like that in PvP for a long time. Anybody can get the best level pvp weapons just from playing the game regardless of their arena rating; the people who are good just get it faster. there are also quests like dailies and weeklies that help you catch up on the currencies needed to buy the gear you want. This is where I think ESO has failed. I'm all for working towards goals that take time by doing challenging content but you need to be able to at least see the light at the end of the tunnel. RNG drops with RNG stats is a horrible system. It totally removes any intensive for me to play something more than once.

Getting the best gear from raiding in a game like WoW is fine because the stats from the toughest raids scale down when you enter a pvp zone and aren't better than the stuff you get from PvP. This is another area that ESO has failed in. PvPers need to grind the hardest PvE areas to get the best gear for PvP. In WoW it's fine if you have the best PvE gear because all it really lets you do is more difficult PvE content that basically exists in a vacuum. You don't need to beat the hardest bosses in that game to get the best PvP weapons. That hasn't been the case since before they added Arenas.

The only other game I've played with a big focus on PvP is Guild Wars 2 and the battleground type stuff there is totally normalized and gear doesn't even matter. Their version of AvA lets you use your PvE gear but it's all relatively easy to get as long as you can farm up some gold and craft what you need.

Kraxis

Despite its new, I do think the loot and rng in this game sucks in general. This is just more of it. Bad traits, crazy farming x1000 when your buddy gets his helm first try (lol)... Writ loot getting bugged...set piece drop bugs on vet..which was fixed today, at least. Drooped loot getting buffed to being better/equal to crafting in IC (wow thx Lagimax!)

ESOs loot system is so 2005.

/rant

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

tist wrote: »

10 different weapons.. assuming 9 traits. Not trying to do 90+ Runs to maybe get the weapon I want.

and that's if the RNG Gods don't give you duplicates, so it could be more like, 450-900 times to get the exact weapon and the exact trait that you want..

good luck..

ehhh look at it like this, by the time you get a couple hundred under your belt it will be easy..

or they will change it..and it will be hard again..

Ezareth

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I could agree that they should allow V15 Maelstrom weapons but I think it is acceptable for the best gear to be available to the players who are willing to go through the necessary requirements to attain it and that it shouldn't be easy to get for everyone. If everyone were to obtain the best gear possible then there is little for us to strive to obtain over the next 3 months until the next patch. Even then the best gear should always be unavailable to the majority, that's how *every* MMO that I've played to date has been.

What games are still like that? I know WoW hasn't been like that in PvP for a long time. Anybody can get the best level pvp weapons just from playing the game regardless of their arena rating; the people who are good just get it faster. there are also quests like dailies and weeklies that help you catch up on the currencies needed to buy the gear you want. This is where I think ESO has failed. I'm all for working towards goals that take time by doing challenging content but you need to be able to at least see the light at the end of the tunnel. RNG drops with RNG stats is a horrible system. It totally removes any intensive for me to play something more than once.

Getting the best gear from raiding in a game like WoW is fine because the stats from the toughest raids scale down when you enter a pvp zone and aren't better than the stuff you get from PvP. This is another area that ESO has failed in. PvPers need to grind the hardest PvE areas to get the best gear for PvP. In WoW it's fine if you have the best PvE gear because all it really lets you do is more difficult PvE content that basically exists in a vacuum. You don't need to beat the hardest bosses in that game to get the best PvP weapons. That hasn't been the case since before they added Arenas.

The only other game I've played with a big focus on PvP is Guild Wars 2 and the battleground type stuff there is totally normalized and gear doesn't even matter. Their version of AvA lets you use your PvE gear but it's all relatively easy to get as long as you can farm up some gold and craft what you need.

That's probably why I and the majority of other players quit WoW years ago...it was redesigned for casuals. Some gear needs to be reserved for the "Elite", if everyone ends up using the same gear there is nothing to strive for and we all become clones of one another. Game becomes boring for all. Progression is the driving force behind the MMO "Addiction". "Free epics" for everyone is only fun for casuals, yet casuals can still have fun despite not ending up with every piece of gear in the game.

Guess how many pieces of dropped VR gear I have ever received that I have used in my 2+ years of ESO? 0. None of the end game weapons are that big of a deal TBH. There are people who are running around with 3 different full sets of Molag Kena and I have never once seen a Monster Helm even drop.

maxjapank

Ezareth wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I could agree that they should allow V15 Maelstrom weapons but I think it is acceptable for the best gear to be available to the players who are willing to go through the necessary requirements to attain it and that it shouldn't be easy to get for everyone. If everyone were to obtain the best gear possible then there is little for us to strive to obtain over the next 3 months until the next patch. Even then the best gear should always be unavailable to the majority, that's how *every* MMO that I've played to date has been.

What games are still like that? I know WoW hasn't been like that in PvP for a long time. Anybody can get the best level pvp weapons just from playing the game regardless of their arena rating; the people who are good just get it faster. there are also quests like dailies and weeklies that help you catch up on the currencies needed to buy the gear you want. This is where I think ESO has failed. I'm all for working towards goals that take time by doing challenging content but you need to be able to at least see the light at the end of the tunnel. RNG drops with RNG stats is a horrible system. It totally removes any intensive for me to play something more than once.

Getting the best gear from raiding in a game like WoW is fine because the stats from the toughest raids scale down when you enter a pvp zone and aren't better than the stuff you get from PvP. This is another area that ESO has failed in. PvPers need to grind the hardest PvE areas to get the best gear for PvP. In WoW it's fine if you have the best PvE gear because all it really lets you do is more difficult PvE content that basically exists in a vacuum. You don't need to beat the hardest bosses in that game to get the best PvP weapons. That hasn't been the case since before they added Arenas.

The only other game I've played with a big focus on PvP is Guild Wars 2 and the battleground type stuff there is totally normalized and gear doesn't even matter. Their version of AvA lets you use your PvE gear but it's all relatively easy to get as long as you can farm up some gold and craft what you need.

That's probably why I and the majority of other players quit WoW years ago...it was redesigned for casuals. Some gear needs to be reserved for the "Elite", if everyone ends up using the same gear there is nothing to strive for and we all become clones of one another. Game becomes boring for all. Progression is the driving force behind the MMO "Addiction". "Free epics" for everyone is only fun for casuals, yet casuals can still have fun despite not ending up with every piece of gear in the game.

Guess how many pieces of dropped VR gear I have ever received that I have used in my 2+ years of ESO? 0. None of the end game weapons are that big of a deal TBH. There are people who are running around with 3 different full sets of Molag Kena and I have never once seen a Monster Helm even drop.

I've never believed in this "reserved for the elite". If the "elite" are so much better than others, then why the need or want for more powerful gear that just makes them so much stronger than the average Joe.

Rust_in_Peace

Ezareth wrote: »

That's probably why I and the majority of other players quit WoW years ago...it was redesigned for casuals. Some gear needs to be reserved for the "Elite", if everyone ends up using the same gear there is nothing to strive for and we all become clones of one another. Game becomes boring for all. Progression is the driving force behind the MMO "Addiction". "Free epics" for everyone is only fun for casuals, yet casuals can still have fun despite not ending up with every piece of gear in the game.

Guess how many pieces of dropped VR gear I have ever received that I have used in my 2+ years of ESO? 0. None of the end game weapons are that big of a deal TBH. There are people who are running around with 3 different full sets of Molag Kena and I have never once seen a Monster Helm even drop.

Don't kid yourself; WoW, ESO and all MMOs are and have always been casual.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

That's probably why I and the majority of other players quit WoW years ago...it was redesigned for casuals. Some gear needs to be reserved for the "Elite", if everyone ends up using the same gear there is nothing to strive for and we all become clones of one another. Game becomes boring for all. Progression is the driving force behind the MMO "Addiction". "Free epics" for everyone is only fun for casuals, yet casuals can still have fun despite not ending up with every piece of gear in the game.

Guess how many pieces of dropped VR gear I have ever received that I have used in my 2+ years of ESO? 0. None of the end game weapons are that big of a deal TBH. There are people who are running around with 3 different full sets of Molag Kena and I have never once seen a Monster Helm even drop.

Don't kid yourself; WoW, ESO and all MMOs are and have always been casual.

Video games are profit seeking endeavors at the end of the day. If casuals dont buy the games, they dont exist. Not appealing to casuals is a terrible business decision and detrimental to the future of the game. Like it or not, it's the truth.

OrphanHelgen

Ezareth wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I could agree that they should allow V15 Maelstrom weapons but I think it is acceptable for the best gear to be available to the players who are willing to go through the necessary requirements to attain it and that it shouldn't be easy to get for everyone. If everyone were to obtain the best gear possible then there is little for us to strive to obtain over the next 3 months until the next patch. Even then the best gear should always be unavailable to the majority, that's how *every* MMO that I've played to date has been.

What games are still like that? I know WoW hasn't been like that in PvP for a long time. Anybody can get the best level pvp weapons just from playing the game regardless of their arena rating; the people who are good just get it faster. there are also quests like dailies and weeklies that help you catch up on the currencies needed to buy the gear you want. This is where I think ESO has failed. I'm all for working towards goals that take time by doing challenging content but you need to be able to at least see the light at the end of the tunnel. RNG drops with RNG stats is a horrible system. It totally removes any intensive for me to play something more than once.

Getting the best gear from raiding in a game like WoW is fine because the stats from the toughest raids scale down when you enter a pvp zone and aren't better than the stuff you get from PvP. This is another area that ESO has failed in. PvPers need to grind the hardest PvE areas to get the best gear for PvP. In WoW it's fine if you have the best PvE gear because all it really lets you do is more difficult PvE content that basically exists in a vacuum. You don't need to beat the hardest bosses in that game to get the best PvP weapons. That hasn't been the case since before they added Arenas.

The only other game I've played with a big focus on PvP is Guild Wars 2 and the battleground type stuff there is totally normalized and gear doesn't even matter. Their version of AvA lets you use your PvE gear but it's all relatively easy to get as long as you can farm up some gold and craft what you need.

That's probably why I and the majority of other players quit WoW years ago...it was redesigned for casuals. Some gear needs to be reserved for the "Elite", if everyone ends up using the same gear there is nothing to strive for and we all become clones of one another. Game becomes boring for all. Progression is the driving force behind the MMO "Addiction". "Free epics" for everyone is only fun for casuals, yet casuals can still have fun despite not ending up with every piece of gear in the game.

Guess how many pieces of dropped VR gear I have ever received that I have used in my 2+ years of ESO? 0. None of the end game weapons are that big of a deal TBH. There are people who are running around with 3 different full sets of Molag Kena and I have never once seen a Monster Helm even drop.

Its ok that elite players and even 9 trait crafters have an advantage. Like the new crafted set in wrotghar now, I don't remember the name but it have 10% chance to spawn a dwermer pet on light attacks. It is not the best crafted set for pve or pvp but it sure looks fun and Im gonna craft it this is unique for a crafter but not game breaking.

The maelstrom weapons are just too good to be ignored, and only being used by an extremely low percentage of players. Especially since the other 1 set option (master weapon) are only vr14. The maelstrom weapons allow you to go combinations like 3 agility, 5 hundings, 2 monsters and 1 maelstrom. Or 5 briarheart, 5 hundings, 1 maelstrom. These unique builds sure are too much of an advantage. And if only the best players are able to get the far best setups, then the gap between a good player and casual player will be too large. I believe this is just spot on the reason why they have CP catch up and CP cap.

Makkir

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Don't kid yourself; WoW, ESO and all MMOs are and have always been casual.

Having played WoW since launch I can say you are absolutely crazy if you think Vanilla raiding was catered for casual play.

Makkir

Ezareth wrote: »

That's probably why I and the majority of other players quit WoW years ago...it was redesigned for casuals. Some gear needs to be reserved for the "Elite", if everyone ends up using the same gear there is nothing to strive for and we all become clones of one another. Game becomes boring for all. Progression is the driving force behind the MMO "Addiction". "Free epics" for everyone is only fun for casuals, yet casuals can still have fun despite not ending up with every piece of gear in the game.

I think there are good players who would fit the description of casual especially if married with children and a full time career. I think if a game were to add fun, meaningful PvP objectives we wouldn't need gear tiers for the elite players.
I played Star Wars Galaxies up thru the NGE garbage, and for the most part players just bought armor and used it until it degraded and broke and then replaced it. A game where the focus isn't on gear but content progression or PvP objectives is where it's at, and unfortunately I don't think there are any more MMOs like that any more.

Just wanted to throw out there that there are plenty of creative ways to progress a player or recognize elite PvPer's without the reward being high tiered armor. I mean, a real PvP game should define skill as the player behind the keyboard and not what item level his gear is, right? One of the reasons I quit WoW actually. It was BS that some trash can paying a chinese gold company money for all top tier PvP gear could stomp me just because his item level was higher than mine.

One of the reasons I loved Star Wars Galaxies to death was because you spent less time in game worrying about getting BiS gear, and more time attacking enemy bases. Sure "elite weapons" dropped randomly from some mobs, but all the gear/weapons deteriorated over time so players had to be careful choosing in which battles to use their OP weapons.

Hiero_Glyph

I proposed this in a different thread but I think there would be merit in saving progress between stages. There would of course be severely limiting conditions for this. First, all score is lost upon exiting the arena area so while your score could qualify you for the leaderboard you would have to complete the final stages in a single session to do so. Second, progress is only saved between leaderboard resets. This means if the leaderboards reset every Monday then you have until the next reset to finish the arena, otherwise your current progress would also be reset. Third, upon completion of the final stage your progress is reset. Alternatively you can abandon your current progress and start over if you would rather farm the earlier stages. That's it. This would let casual players or those with limited time take on the arena without having to learn the mechanics in a single session and would have limited impact on the leaderboards.

Darnathian

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

[...]
I have heard some say its not to hard and don't want to nerf it. I think thats pretty selfish to say, when we can't even fill up the leaderboard to max.
I have no problem with the game having difficult content like this [...]

This is the FIRST week. and already TWOHUNDRED completions on EU. You call this difficult or hard? *Gasp*

It's way too easy if anyone is able to complete it on the first week. People are going in with 0 knowledge about mechanics and 0 adjustments to gear and clear it. This is NOT hard. And in a month people will faceroll this arena in around an hour and less. So can't we just drop our nerfhammers and wait for everybody to faceroll the content?

@Xantaria I see your score on the leaderboard are 300 ish. This is due to an exploit you used, doing the arena on normal then changing to veteran. If this is too easy, why are you using this exploit? Why dont you have a score with 20k+? Have you ever done all stages on veteran? I have, that means I am better then you, and I also have valid fair points about this arena. I dont like people like you using exploits, having a selfish personality and trick people into thinking you are better then you actually are, just to gain respect. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , what do you think about this exploit, and should we let players like this destroying the community and players confidence by telling we are noobs if we cant faceroll the arena withing an hour, when the truth is that they are just doing the normal arena themself?

REKT. Rofl